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Figge
06-29-2005, 10:07 AM
i have this pair of 4406 thatīve come to like more and more. but the bass! there is no. any suggestions/ideas on a sub for these, something small preferably. or maybe if i should build something? i have 2 127H:s lying around. what would u do? exept for hooking up a 2235.

nice little speakers anyway

clmrt
06-29-2005, 10:20 AM
Dayton 10" kit?


Or is it faux pas if it ain't JBL?

Figge
06-29-2005, 10:23 AM
Dayton 10" kit?


Or is it faux pas if it ain't JBL?


doesnt HAVE to be jbl but since i like that brand its definetley a +

tell me more aboot the dayton stuff

Don Mascali
06-29-2005, 12:44 PM
I used my pair of 4406s on top of some B380 clones I built. (Audio Control Richter Scale @ 90hz) They were great together. I almost hated to go back to the horns when I got a larger space.

I use them as my computer speakers with a 100 watt amp. They are sweet nearfield monitors.

I second the comments on the Dayton Subs. They are good bang for the buck subs if you can't do JBL.

Good luck,

Don M

Zilch
06-29-2005, 01:19 PM
B380 or Citation 7.4 would seem to be overkill for 4406's to me.

I'd be lookin' at building a pair of Citation 5.4 boxes and put almost any extended bass (foam surround) 12" driver in them:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=44535#post44535

Scale down for 127H, if you like.

Dayton or other sub boxes, alternatively....

clmrt
06-29-2005, 01:41 PM
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=259

"Dayton" is the brand of subs sold by Parts Express. I had the 10" Titanic kit, sealed 1cf with 250 watts.

Without EQ, it was great for music. I could never overload it.

With HT, I missed the deeeeep rumble I get from my usual 12" 90 liter ported job, so I added external EQ. I then overloaded it.

I'd buy it again, locate it properly, and enjoy as 2ch support.

Best regards,

- CM

Figge
07-01-2005, 07:23 PM
could the "control sb-1" work out at normal listening levels? reason i ask is i have a pretty good deal it. looks rather small. so i guess iīll wait for som other to show up....

going off topic by saying: i do have a good deal on a Audio Pro B2-70 from mid 1980:s looks nice to me..any experiences?

Zilch
07-01-2005, 07:53 PM
Control SB-1 is kinda small. SB-5 would work, modestly. :p

WinISD says your 127H's would make good subs, in BIG boxes....

Robh3606
07-01-2005, 08:13 PM
Well either 2235's or Le-14's would be my choice leaning towards the Le-14's. Drop them in 4 Cubic ft' tune them to 30Hz or so and they would work great. If you go for a larger box 2235's. On the 12" side 122A's 128H-1 or 2214's would also work with the 122's working in the smallest box. The 127's I don't think will give you enough improvement and if you go for a larger box why not just go with a driver that will really get you down to where you want to be?? I have L80t3 and I used LE-14 under them and the 127's just couldn't touch the 14's 40Hz and below. The 116H-1 driver is used in the XPL-200 and cross's at about 300Hz. I have used all three 12" woofers under them in my XPL clones and the best are the 128H-1 and the 2214 however the most extended LF is the 122A.

Rob:)

Zilch
07-01-2005, 08:46 PM
If you're adventurous, WinISD says twin 127H's mounted isobaric will play pretty nice in between 3 and 5 cuft.

Pick yer tuning:

Maximally flat in 5.185 cuft. tuned to 23.42 Hz, that being one 4" duct 8.85" long. -3 dB at ~22 Hz.

I'd be cuttin' wood on that one if I had a pair of those sittin' around.... :bouncy:

What's BB6P say?

Robh3606
07-01-2005, 08:56 PM
"If you're adventurous, WinISD says twin 127H's mounted isobaric will play pretty nice in between 3 and 5 cuft.

Pick yer tuning:

Maximally flat in 5.185 cuft. tuned to 23.42 Hz, that being one 4" duct 8.85" long. -3 dB at ~22 Hz.

I'd be cuttin' wood on that one if I had a pair of those sittin' around.... http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/bouncy.gif"

Hello Zilch

Thats something I haven't tried. Cool have you tried any of the JBL woofers in an Isobaric box?? Is the x max OK???

Rob:)

Zilch
07-01-2005, 09:07 PM
:) Hiya, Rob.

WinISD database doesn't have SPL for JBL's. BB6P would tell all, probably.

Figge's askin' for "normal" listening levels. This'd likely deliver enough with 127H's. Would be fun to try, in any case.

I've played with LE14's a little isobaric. Basically, it cuts the box size in half is what; not talkin' bandpass here, just regular vented box....

[Izzat Giskard I hear gigglin'? :p ]

Robh3606
07-01-2005, 09:32 PM
I got you from say 10 cubic to 5ft. I tried it in BB6 and it looks like you are limited down low where you would want to be supplimenting the 4406's. Do you have BP6?? See if you get the same. I have not used bb6 that much yet used WinIsd for almost every thing I have built. I bet he's laughing his ass off:D

Rob:)

Zilch
07-01-2005, 09:46 PM
Hmmmm. We can only put about 12 Watts into them down there.

Well, "Poop." :(

BB6P is on the way. Maybe next week I can give it a shot.

Don't think I'll be able to tweak that excursion limit, tho.

O.K., STOP the saw! ;)

[Those be wimpy-weenie woofers.... :p ]

GordonW
07-01-2005, 11:01 PM
Yeah, a single-10-worth of cone area with only .2" of one-way X-max isn't going to pull a whole lot of SPL...

My suggestion, would be either LE14Hs or... maybe even better, in this case... 128H's. Either driver could work in about 2.5 cubic feet, tuned to 25 Hz. With a "shelving effect" of a lowpass subwoofer crossover, either of these could EASILY make it down into the high-20s... with GOOD power handling to WELL BELOW 30 Hz...

And if you want to see something REALLY interesting... try modelling THIS in BB:

128H, in a 4th order bandpass box. Front chamber 1.0 cubic feet, rear chamber 1.5 cubic feet. Front chamber tuning, 55 Hz.

Only problem, is that there's SO MUCH volume displacement possible, getting a port in there is the challenge. This would be a PRIME CANDIDATE for a passive-radiator-tuned bandpass... where you use a passive radiator to "vent" the front chamber (the rear chamber is sealed), instead of a port...

Regards,
Gordon.

speakerdave
07-02-2005, 04:40 PM
A great woofer for this job would have been the 2203. It is no longer available, of course, but JBL has a modern woofer which is like an improved version of the 2203-the 252G. See Giskard's graphs comparing the two in 2.5 cu. ft. boxes on this thread:

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=822&page=2&pp=15&highlight=252g

David

Figge
07-03-2005, 08:01 AM
I'd be cuttin' wood on that one if I had a pair of those sittin' around.... :bouncy:




:hmm:

johnaec
07-03-2005, 11:01 PM
A 12" 128H might make a good little sub. There's one on eBay right now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7334450642&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

John

Guido
07-04-2005, 04:46 AM
I went this way for my 4313B


http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=3826&highlight=2203

Zilch
07-04-2005, 11:03 AM
128H, in a 4th order bandpass box. Front chamber 1.0 cubic feet, rear chamber 1.5 cubic feet. Front chamber tuning, 55 Hz.

Only problem, is that there's SO MUCH volume displacement possible, getting a port in there is the challenge.C'mon, Gordon, we KNOW you can do it for us. You're mighty clever with those slotted-port designs.

One for LE14A, and one for 128H, please.... :p

[Lotsa LE14A out there need "application."]

GordonW
07-04-2005, 07:46 PM
Problem is, to get enough port area (8" diameter tube, minimum!), you're talking about a port that's between 3.5 and 4 FEET LONG. Once you get into that length (which is greater than a quarter-wave at 70 Hz), it starts acting as an ORGAN PIPE, rather than a lumped Hemholtz tuning mass.

Definitely would need to be a PR... in the 128H bandpass box design above, my suggestion would be to use a 15" PR, with about 13.25 ounces of total cone mass, to tune the front 1 ft^3 chamber. Something with some fairly serious excursion, too... like an Adire or Stryke Audio 15" unit. You'd want at least 3-4 liters of volume displacement...

Regards,
Gordon.

Zilch
07-15-2005, 12:43 AM
Gordon, I've just modeled a single 128H in 4th-order bandpass as you describe, and it's good like you say.

BUT, I'm getting more reasonable vents: 3" dia. at 3.307" long, and 4" dia. at 7.213" long, either of which would fit.

It'll take 79 Watts without compromise, and the full 100 Watts with concomitant distortion below 30 Hz, is all.

Something I'm missing there?

F3's are 30 and 100 Hz.... :D

[Gonna try it isobaric, now.]