View Full Version : New Blood...

Fred Sanford
06-17-2005, 08:48 PM
Hi folks- I've been wandering around this forum for some info on a few pieces I've accumulated over the years, and figured I'd introduce myself. I've been in the AV business for 20+ years, commercial/residential/pro/you name it & I've taken a swing at it. I've also gotten the reputation of being the "Fred Sanford" of AV- I'll take anyone's junk, as long as it's free. This packrat mentality has helped me to accumulate quite a pile of JBL stuff- quick count would be 4333AWXs, L110s, 4408s, and a bunch of pro/PA stuff, too. Had plenty of Altec gear over the years, too, but none are here currently. Picked up a pair of nice condition L46s today, should be another pair coming next week as well. Might be a pair of busted 240Ti coming by the end of the Summer. Stories behind all of them, some day I'll bore you with them.
Some spare parts around, too, someday I'll inventory them as well & see if they can help somebody out.


je (real name's John...)

06-17-2005, 09:06 PM
Welcome aboard John and I'd love to hear the stories behind any kind of good JBL scoop (especially the busted up Ti's, oh the horror) but you're rescuing them and that's great!


06-17-2005, 09:38 PM
It is nice to see new members with the passion.

Fred Sanford
06-18-2005, 04:35 AM
The 240Ti story isn't a horribly sad one, just some neglect. A customer of mine had them in a damp NYC basement crawl space for years wrapped in shrink wrap (and painted white at some point), finally set them up for him in a beach house basement & found one blown tweeter and I think I remember a crossover or level-control repair or something similar. Repaired all that, now the woofer surrounds have both given out, and his kids are kicking the grilles a bit...I get the feeling he might abandon them & go for smaller speakers up off the floor.

Any suggestions on sourcing the foam repair or re-cone kit for those 14" woofers?



06-18-2005, 05:01 AM
It is nice to see new members with the passion.

You mean the disease? :blink:

06-18-2005, 07:16 AM
Regarding the surrounds, Rick Cobb provides most of us with aftermarket speaker surrounds of good quality (I've ordered several kits from him). He's on Ebay and his Ebay name is LooneyTunes2001. There are others who make surrounds as well, but Rick has great quality products. Here is a typical Ebay link. Email him and tell him what you have and he'll work with you.


There are quite a few threads here on speaker surround "how-to" as well, just use the search function in the Technical Help forum using 'surround' or 'surrounds'. Good luck in getting the 240Ti's to a safe place, JBL's need luv too!

06-18-2005, 07:49 AM
You mean the disease? :blink:

Dont want to scare the creatures away right off the bat. Sensitive breed ya know:D

Fred Sanford
06-19-2005, 04:48 PM
Oh, I don't scare so easily...besides, this is a mild one compared to my other obsessions. I just can't let any JBLs go out to the trash, or sit in a garage, or act as plant stands, or go unloved.

I fired up the L46s for the first time after my earlier posts, very nice. Real rough/quick check on 'em, an MP3 player into a power amp of unknown quality, but overall I was smiling. Hope I score the other pair at this apartment, should find out Tuesday or Thursday if they'll be coming home with me. Then I just have to find a use for them...


Fred Sanford
06-22-2005, 05:33 PM
Success! The second set of L46s are in the car, I'll be testing them out shortly. I just love rich folk's trash.


Fred Sanford
07-05-2005, 04:38 PM
Stopped by my Folk's place for the 4th, and checked the #s on the JBLs they've got there:


...these are all speakers I've sourced for them in the past, anybody have info on the 62Ts? Were they pro nearfield monitors? I did find manuals for the LXs, this site rocks.


07-05-2005, 07:10 PM
Hey Fred! Please bore us with all the gory details..:applaud:

Fred Sanford
07-05-2005, 08:27 PM
Gory details of how these toys managed to follow me home? Of the condition of them? How they sound?

All the gore?

Quick version of the 4333AWX's story- maybe 20 years ago Arista records founder Clive Davis wants an upgrade to his office playback system, calls in my boss who he knew through Barry Manilow. My boss pulls out the JBLs, a Sansui BA-5000 power amp, and some other gear. They sit around for a few years, until his daughter turns 10 or so, then they spend a few years blasting Depeche Mode and The Cure through them until she goes to college and can't fit them in her dorm. They sit in her Mom's garage for a few more years, until I rescue them. Sansui goes to my friend Scott:

www.sgcustomsound.com (http://www.sgcustomsound.com/)

...to power the Lunar Module Subwoofer in his showroom, JBLs come home with me. Cabinets are rough, one piece of trim on the front completely missing. Moisture damage evident on cabinets, level controls, crossover switch, everywhere. Deep scratches everywhere. Mids sound harsh at certain frequencies, but once they're lined up they're fine. Woofer surrounds were shot, Scott replaced them for me. Still need to clean/replace/bypass the x-over switch, and clean the level controls, but they sound sweet. They'll end up being the playback monitors in my studio's main room, not sure how much I'll bother with fe-finishing the cabs, depends on what I can barter with my woodworking friends. They've been playing occasionally with a Denon PMA920 integrated amp and a Velodyne sub, but will eventually most likely be biamped with two of my Yamaha P2100 power amps.

L110, L46, 4408 gory stories and maybe some pics some other day.


Fred Sanford
08-14-2005, 07:40 AM
The four L46s I picked up recently had spent their last 20+ years inside little cubbies in the Dakota building in Manhattan. A client of mine had us upgrade his system, and I found these in high cabinets (maybe 12 feet off the floor) behind wood slat grilles. They had been powered by a Nakamichi receiver and switched through a selector box with loading resistors in series. ~18gauge lamp cord cable to each. Two are dusty, but in good shape (kitchen), two are covered in soot (dining room) because they were in openings used as air intakes. Surprisingly all woofer surrounds seem fine, they looked chalky so I was concerned at first. I'm impressed by the low end response from the 8" woofers, but haven't really given them a good overall test, just an MP3 player through a 12-zone AudioControl Architect amp I had kicking around. The grilles will get a gentle cleaning, the cabs will go off to a buddy that restores cabinetry, and we'll see where they end up when they arrive home. I may be looking for a good center channel match, if these come out nice they might be candidates to replace my Canton Karat 20s (bachelor black) as Living Room Surround speakers.

If anyone cares, the client's new speakers are Sonus Faber Concertos in LR/DR/Kitchen, Vienna Acoustics in Media Room (Schoenberg/Webern/Berg), Monitor Audio in MBR.


Mr. Widget
08-14-2005, 06:09 PM
Canton Karat 20s (bachelor black)

:rotfl: I love that! I am keeping it, but I'll give you credit...

If anyone cares, the client's new speakers are Sonus Faber Concertos in LR/DR/Kitchen, Vienna Acoustics in Media Room (Schoenberg/Webern/Berg), Monitor Audio in MBR.

I'd go with that upgrade path... not to dump on your baby Lansings. You certainly got the better deal financially.:thmbsup:


08-14-2005, 06:13 PM
Let me at the 240ti cabinets Fred. I love salavaging old boxes......just not in the St. louis humidity right now. :D

Fred Sanford
08-15-2005, 05:38 AM
240Ti cabs aren't mine (yet), they're the ones painted white so they'd need lots of work to return to original. My L46s, L110s and 4333As just need varying amounts of sanding & oiling. OK, the 4333As might need a bit more than that, maybe a bucket full of wood filler and a sandblaster.

Mr Widget:
That phrase started with the modest furniture I purchased shortly after I purchased my modest house- all I could afford was an Ikea entertainment center and bookshelves. Color options were "oak", or...Bachelor Black! Matched all my gear, and recording studio desk, and most of my clothes at the time!

Also, I do love the Vienna Acoustics aluminum series in particular, very impressive. If I had this guy's budget (and apartment), I'd go for them as well.

More gore later...


Ken Pachkowsky
08-15-2005, 12:08 PM
Enjoyed the posts and your sence of humor. Simply not enough of that around these days. Welcome!


Fred Sanford
08-15-2005, 08:10 PM
Thanks for the welcome, Ken. Since you like my sense of humor, you won't mind me pointing out that my name is John, the Fred Sanford thing is a nickname 'cause I take in everybody else's junk. I do answer to Fred lately, though, so that'll be fine.

je, going to visit the 240Ti's on Thursday, I'll keep y'all posted. Same guy had 4412(?)s somewhere, too, I'll have to check into that as well...


Ken Pachkowsky
08-15-2005, 10:24 PM
Ok, welcome John.


Fred Sanford
07-11-2006, 08:06 PM
Heading out to visit my client's summer house with the 240Ti's tomorrow- I'll try to remember to grab pics of these neglected/abused cabinets (and of his vinyl collection, and his ocean view, and his Australian surfer babe tenants...). Then I'll drop him a hint about what I want for Christmas this year..."I really think you should replace those 240Ti's with something smaller I can mount up on the wall, so the kids & dogs don't keep wrecking them. Oh, and, I think those 4412As in your NYC house don't match your Snell center channel very well, let me offer a suggestion to replace all three of them, too..."


Fred Sanford
07-11-2006, 08:35 PM
By the way, I'm now up to:

4333As (2), re-finished cabs and almost back together. Need to give the OEM grille cloth a close look, might have to replace.

L100s (2), Thanks to norealtalent for the cabs & tweets. Cabs & x-overs in one place, nearly appropriate woofs/mids/tweets in another place, project for a rainy day. Tweets getting re-coned soon, woofs probably ought to be, too. Mids (LE5-12s) are OK, one's even new-in-box. Cab finishes look quite good, but there's a good chance I'll be recessing these and all you'll ever see is the front baffles or even just grille cloth.

L110s (2), currently with Vifa woofers but sound & test great. Might do some work on cabinet aesthetics, might not. Might someday source some LE111As, might not.

L46s (6), one pair of woofs re-foamed, the other 4 seem OK for now. Destined for a 6.1 surround system, depending on WAF. One grille is scruffy & no badge, four cabs are dirty/dull and need to be spruced up.

In the studio there is a pair of TR225s (not really JBL components, mostly), a couple of E120s in vocal monitor cabs, an E140 in a bass guitar cab, and a 2135 (cousin to a D130?) waiting for a cab to call home.


Fred Sanford
08-05-2006, 07:09 AM

Fired up the 4333As, some issues still to sort out, but glorious fun just sitting in front of them & picking different tunes to play through 'em, and this is just a quick test rig, nothing fancy at all (DVD player into Yamaha surround receiver). Input terminals are intermittent, I'll have to look at either cleaning/tightening them or replacing them. Any advice from someone who's been there would be appreciated. I have Adcom power amps & Ashly x-over to biamp them, but not sure if that's happening any time soon. Grille cloth is mildew damaged, but doesn't look bad from 6 feet away. I'll check with Zilch for new cloth availability. Cash outlay so far = $0. Barter value outlay so far is likely in the $5-600 range.

Pieced together the L100 Centurys with temp tweeters; one of the 2213Hs is in worse shape than I remembered it, but does seem to play OK for now. No test equipment with me at that location, just racks & racks of components. These were tested in the basement with an MP3 player into a Denon integrated amp. I'll need to look at the input terminals and internal wiring, and wait for the tweets to be repaired to get an overall picture. Also have to check myself on phasing with this motley set of mis-matched components (2213Hs, LE5-12s, and LE-25s). Cash outlay so far is ~$75.

L46s with the Rick Cobb surrounds sounded great (that is, until I fired up the 4333As in the same room!), 2 more pairs of woofers in line for the treatment. They're not cracked yet, but not soft or really rounded anymore. Then the cabs & grilles get cleaned, and hopefully they become the speakers for a 5.1 system. Cash outlay so far for all six speakers is ~$225, barter may be up to ~$40.

Pics are up in the Member's gallery of some of these toys, more to follow.

Thanks for your patience and advice so far, even though I'm an undeserving bottom-feeder :o: .


08-10-2006, 02:10 PM
Thanks for the update Fred.
Congrats on shaping up your systems!:applaud:
I haven't been getting anywhere with my projects lately :( and your progress is an inspiration:o:, keep up the good work!

Fred Sanford
08-10-2006, 05:56 PM
All my projects are in my new house (my REALLY BIG new project), so I only get to see them one weekend a month or so until I end up moving there- it's amazing I make any progress at all.

Thanks for the kind words, though, Glen...


Gary L
08-11-2006, 04:40 AM
Great post John and welcome aboard! I particularly like the Batchelor Black comment as I used to have all my gear on a 20 gallon table. 4-5gallon buckets and a piece of 3/4" ply!

I too like collecting but stick with the Altec name here in UP State NY but probably no more then 70 miles north west of you.

My work as a carpenter also provides some neat finds in the homes of the rich and not so famous. Love their junk!

I think you will enjoy it here with the rest of us vintage audio junkies.
There are alot of great members and some seriously knowledgable ones for sure.
I am great at rebuilding and refinishing the wood but totally lost when it gets into the electronic end and the fine tuning basics. I have found many great answers right here and always enjoy reading most of the posts, even the ones that blow me away with the technical issues.

Look forward to hearing more of your stories and drop me a PM to see just how close we really are.


Alan Fletcher
08-12-2006, 07:08 PM
Holy crap... Sonus Faber. That is some seriously expensive landfill material right there. just goes to show, you really can sell a freezer to an Eskimo, if you try hard enough. They gained tremendous momentum thanks to the TWEETER, ETC/BEST BUY conglomerate and Sandy and his hideous feature/ function/benefit (or whatever the hell they called it) sales training...

Canton's... OMG, I remember those. Braun drivers and very close relatives of ADS. not a bad speaker but then again, after oh, 15 years who can really recall? Short lived, but definitely stuck in my memory as something worth a listen.

This is certainly a venerable old thread, and as usual I am very late to the party, but John, I still have to give you a nice warm welcome :applaud:


Fred Sanford
09-06-2006, 07:57 PM
9/1/2006- Mark the day- it's the day my wife said, "I think we should turn off all the lites, open all the windows, light some candles, and listen to music all night long".

Thank you to all LHF members, you do help make dreams come true. The 4333As have made themselves a new fan. Friday night was Ladies Night:

Paula Cole/Shawn Colvin/k d lang/Texas/Maria McKee/Sass Jordan/Mother Station/Pat Benetar/Patty Smyth/Patti Scialfa/DiVinyls/Lucinda Williams/Nina Gordon/Jann Arden/Lisa Marie Presley/and others.

Then, the next day, I put the L100s together and fired them up in the Living Room as well. Seal helped warm them up, followed by Del Amitri/BoDeans/Beatles/Big Head Todd/Brian Setzer/Dave Mathews/Screamin' Cheetah Wheelies/Damon Johnson/Joe Jackson/Queen and lots of Little Feat.

I'll put some new pics in the Gallery of the progress...


Fred Sanford
02-21-2007, 08:11 AM
L110s now have LE10H woofers thanks to Giskard, some cabinet refreshing and they'll be put to use in my studio's control room. Of course, I sold the grilles a while back, thinking I'd never use them :o:.

L100s need some more tweaking, and if I ever use them somewhere that they're visible it's nice to know that grilles & foam are now available. Both of my upstairs bedrooms have voids where speakers this size could be recessed so grilles & frames could be fabricated to match the decor pretty easily.

A second pair of L100s is coming my way around March 1st, not much detail at this time other than L100 on the foilcal (not L100 Century like mine), drivers not in-line, and they have grille frames with cloth, not foam. These are from a film maker friend that has taken carloads of my castaways over the years (mixers, speakers, projectors, amps, cables, you name it). He wanted reclaim some space in his laundry room, and asked if I had any use for "big JBL speakers".


Yeah, lemme think about that for a minute.


Sure, if it's not too much trouble, bring 'em on over.


They're apparently from his ex's family, and it probably gives him some other hidden joy to see them go away. Pics & details to follow, plus hopefully I can check them side-by-side with the ones I already have to see if there's an obvious difference.