Giskard "former member?"

[R Beardsley]

WTF is that?

[JuniorJBL]

He is a VERY VERY valued member here on this fourm. This would be a sad day as anyone here can gain knowledge from this highly knowledgeable and respected fourmite.

I do hope this is not the case!!
Shane

[Zilch]

Giskard is on sabbatical.

Some feckwit scrapped 185 DX-1's he was trying to give new life here.

No doubt he is duly bent about it....

[Audiobeer]

I guess I missed this one. I have no ideal what happened. I will say this. Giskard has always been a life saver for me on my repairs and restorations. He is a walking encyclopedia on JBLs and thier drivers. He may not have the greatest people skills via the internet......but after dealing with him I would have to say he has a heart ass big as my ASS! What he does for this board couldn't be measured. He has been here as long before I came here. I would have to say he puts in a lot of hours a day where the majotity of us put in a few minutes every now and then. With all the emails and questions he gets and answers I suspect someone tripped his trigger and he's evaluating whether the percieved abuse is worth it. I myself hope he is still contributing! :bouncy:

[R Beardsley]

My assumption (or hope) was that this is a joke. Giskard, if you ever want to leave, we need 365 days notice!

[Earl K]

Hi


With all the emails and questions he gets and answers I suspect someone tripped his trigger and he's evaluating whether the percieved abuse is worth it.

I believe that about sums it up / though / I see the abuse as quite real.


I myself hope he is still contributing!

I do hope that he is able to think through this / solve the riddles of such immersed involvement / and then re-establish a balance that will work more for his benefit .


:cheers:

[mikebake]

I suspect someone tripped his trigger and he's evaluating whether the percieved abuse is worth it.
Bingo.

[boputnam]

...I see the abuse as quite real. Aptly put, Earl.

Too many come out here with their egos tied to quick acceptance on an Internet forum. When they faced Giskard's dry wit, and pure uncaring when they decide to go a direction not supported by available engineering or ample experience, they lash out at him and challenge his credibility, truthfulness, honesty and person. They bit the hand that would readily feed them.

[JBLnsince1959]

This is really sad... :(

The man has done so much for this forum and the people here. I was really surprised that he hadn't burned out long ago. Just recently I asked a question about the performance series crossovers and he went above and beyond what I thought he would and he did it for so many. These were not trival answers he gave but took a lot of work and yes, he does have a very, very big heart ( haven't seen your ass yet audiobeer but we'll take your word)

I don't know what triggered this, but all i can say is it must have been more than just a "bad" experience with a member or a few run-a-way threads lately.

any time you open yourself up to helping as many people as he did there's always a possiblity of something going wrong. also, I know how hard it is to explain tech stuff to non tech people. drives you crazy.

I was hoping to help him ( if he needed it) on making his dream of a tech database for the forum a reality. We'll see.....

Well, tonight I will toast a drink to a very uncommon gentleman who went by the handle of "Giskard". I know he has won my respect and admiration, not only for his brilliant knowlege but for what he gave so many on this forum. We are not likely to see his kind again.

So Giskard whatever you are..... I wish you the best..even if that means you are no longer on the forum. Hopefully we will all respect his wishes should he need some time off or time to reflect.

and last.....thank you for all you did. :applaud:

( by the way....who was he?)

[JBLnsince1959]

Aptly put, Earl.

Too many come out here with their egos tied to quick acceptance on an Internet forum. When they faced Giskard's dry wit, and pure uncaring when they decide to go a direction not supported by available engineering or ample experience, they lash out at him and challenge his credibility, truthfulness, honesty and person. They bit the hand that would readily feed them.

Damn..double damn... :biting:

[jblnut]

I think with time that perhaps this may all blow over. His love of JBL's and his dedication to this "hobby" is unmatched imho (not to take away anything from other dedicated enthusiasts here :) ). Hopefully with time he'll wander back in and pick up where he left off - educating, helping and even lecturing when necessary.

You might find the answers here on your own, but without his quickly accessible mental database of all things JBL, we're all poorer as a result.

jblnut

[JuniorJBL]

I think with time that perhaps this may all blow over. His love of JBL's and his dedication to this "hobby" is unmatched imho (not to take away anything from other dedicated enthusiasts here :) ). Hopefully with time he'll wander back in and pick up where he left off - educating, helping and even lecturing when necessary.

You might find the answers here on your own, but without his quickly accessible mental database of all things JBL, we're all poorer as a result.

jblnut

I do hope this will be the case.

[johnaec]

Giskard has always seemed more than willing to help people out - he's certainly helped me! I certainly hope he returns - his presence and technical input could never be replaced.

Though I don't know for sure, I suspect his moniker came from Isaac Asimov - the robot Giskard. Perhaps the following info on Asimov's Giskard can provide some insight into our fellow forumite, (and techbot?):

Reventlov, Giskard
Robot designed and built on Aurora (http://www.newearth.demon.co.uk/asimov/asht01.htm#aurora) by Han Fastolfe (http://www.newearth.demon.co.uk/asimov/asht06.htm#fastolfe), and a lifelong companion of Fastolfe. As an unintended result of experiments in programming carried out on him by Fastolfe's student daughter Vasilia (http://www.newearth.demon.co.uk/asimov/asht01.htm#aliena), Giskard was given the ability to read and influence minds. Although he used this ability according to the Laws of Robotics, this nevertheless included using it to prevent its discovery, and only Elijah Baley (http://www.newearth.demon.co.uk/asimov/asht02.htm#baleye), during the investigation of Jander Panell (http://www.newearth.demon.co.uk/asimov/asht16.htm#panell)'s death, and Vasilia Aliena, at the height of the crisis between Aurora and Earth, deduced the extent of his powers. It was Giskard's agreement with the views of Fastolfe on the future of the Spacers and of Earthpeople which led him to induce Panell into stasis when he discovered that Kelden Amadiro (http://www.newearth.demon.co.uk/asimov/asht01.htm#amadiro) had been trying to extract information on humaniform robots from Panell for his own purposes, and to encourage the assignment of Baley to the subsequent investigation. His encounter with, and observations of, Baley convinced him that Fastolfe was right, and he continued to use his powers, when necessary, to encourage the mass emigration from Earth which Fastolfe wanted to see. After Fastolfe's death, ownership of Giskard and his long-time friend Daneel Olivaw (http://www.newearth.demon.co.uk/asimov/asht15.htm#olivaw) transferred to Gladia Delmarre (http://www.newearth.demon.co.uk/asimov/asht04.htm#delmarreg), and with her they accompanied D.G.Baley (http://www.newearth.demon.co.uk/asimov/asht02.htm#baleydg) via Solaria (http://www.newearth.demon.co.uk/asimov/asht19.htm#solaria) and Baleyworld (http://www.newearth.demon.co.uk/asimov/asht02.htm#baleyworld) to Earth, where Giskard could observe human beings en masse, and was able to reprogram some of Earth's robots to influence the Earth's officials towards a more positive attitude to colonization. While on Earth he prevented Amadiro from initiating his plan to destroy Earth but allowed Levular Mandamus (http://www.newearth.demon.co.uk/asimov/asht13.htm#mandamus) to, determining that a long, slow death for the planet would be in the best interests of humanity by forcing them to expand into the galaxy. Although Giskard, after long and detailed discussions with Daneel, had recognised the need for a Zeroth Law of Robotics as proposed by Daneel as an answer to what both had come to see as the incompleteness of the existing Laws of Robotics, he was less well able to cope with the abstract concepts which the Zeroth Law introduced, and went into stasis as a result of the lingering uncertainty of his decision to allow Earth to die, coming as it had at the end of a protracted series of difficult crises. Before freezing, he programmed Daneel with his telepathic powers.

[R Beardsley]

HUH? Is that you Mr. Asimov?

[johnaec]

HUH? Is that you Mr. Asimov?
From here: http://www.newearth.demon.co.uk/asimov/asht00.htm

John

[JBLnsince1959]

HUH? Is that you Mr. Asimov?

he's gone now I believe......Mr. Asimov that is

[louped garouv]

This is really sad... :(

Well, tonight I will toast a drink to a very uncommon gentleman who went by the handle of "Giskard". I know he has won my respect and admiration, not only for his brilliant knowlege but for what he gave so many on this forum. We are not likely to see his kind again.

So Giskard whatever you are..... I wish you the best..even if that means you are no longer on the forum. Hopefully we will all respect his wishes should he need some time off or time to reflect.

and last.....thank you for all you did. :applaud:

( by the way....who was he?)

I will be doing the same, and wish to also express my gratitude to Giskard, amongst others, for making this a place where we could all learn so much...

[Guido]

Call me stupid but I do not get it.

What was the problem? The destroying of the DX-1's through JBL?

But this is not our fault, is it?

[Steve Gonzales]

Giskard, you and I have had our differences but we worked it out. I must admit that I have enjoyed our conversations on the phone. You know that I too, wanted to call it quits and I recall that even in that troubled time, you still encouraged me to stay and I appreciate that. I now encourage you to do the same. This Forum NEEDS your immense WORKING Knowledge of our beloved JBL products. I realize that you have an unusual "dry wit" and sometimes it comes across as rude to me, but hey, life goes on, I'm a grown man and I would rather see you dust yourself off and continue to be a contributor here where you belong, than to have a bad experience in the end. Take your time, you've got friends here that would definately miss you. You are a very Valuable Member, don't throw that away . Take Care Sir, and I hope to see you back helping people here on the LHS, Steve Gonzales

[DMMD]

As simply as I can put it... the man behind the JBL mask known as 'Giskard' embodies all that is "real" about everything we imagine the Lansing legacy to be.

It is a sad day when the collective agony can destroy someone's passion to such a degree.

I too have be righted when headed down the wrong path.... and as many here have shown, with the highest respect, I toast a note of gratitude.

Being selfless is much harder than being faceless...

Cheers to our much-valued stray comrade.

[R Beardsley]

I thought "former member" was some GISKARD wit. Although I don't know the man personally, I would certainly miss both his wit and the huge contribution he makes here. He has been very generous with his time and help where I am concerned even though I am fairly new around here.

[Titanium Dome]

In other forums that I frequent, I often encounter contributors that squeeze the joy out of something by being opinionated, crusty, offensive, dogmatic, critical, condescending, and demanding. Bullies will be bullies whether they be in person or online. I like to tweak the nose of the bully, but since the purpose of my involvement in any forum is first enjoyment (through camaraderie and respect in a shared interest) and second enlightenment (through the sharing of knowledge and experience), I soon tire of the bully and move on.

In the Internet Age, the bully sometimes is not a person, but a dynamic that builds between an individual (or a small group of individuals) and the expectation of the community as a whole for that individual. There's a fine line between being willingly accommodating to the needs of the group and feeling oneself being exploited and whored.

Most of us are tough enough that a single incident isn't going to drive us out. One smart ass comment, OR one ignorant mistake OR one instance of exploitation by the idly curious OR one major boner by a warehouseman OR one attempt on our part to go the extra mile for someone who isn't going to listen, OR one...whatever, won't do any of us in, but to have the burden to see/feel/hear this often AND be a good f**king sport all the time AND put your rep on the line with a large multinational company that's showing you an extended professional courtesy, well that might get to you.

That might just suck the joy right out of it.

[spkrman57]

I doubt we have seen the last of him! (I'm hoping so at least)

Ron

[Ian Mackenzie]

Aptly put, Earl.

Too many come out here with their egos tied to quick acceptance on an Internet forum. When they faced Giskard's dry wit, and pure uncaring when they decide to go a direction not supported by available engineering or ample experience, they lash out at him and challenge his credibility, truthfulness, honesty and person. They bit the hand that would readily feed them.


Members and particularly new members would be unaware and not appreciate Giskard's been in this business a very very long time and he's seen it all.

He's a technical guy and with that tenure of technical stature he's not in the business of being scrutinized, challenged and at worst having his sincerity undermined particularly in this kind of environment.

On the other hand technical people tend to understand less of themselves and of the relationships they have with others for their world is what they are. Hence we see these occasional ruptures when the tension between their world and reality bites.

However over time we all tend to grow and take on a wider appreciation of others and the world we live in.

I think Giskard will return after a time when he grows bored and his wife tells him he's a pain in the ass.

Ian

[geowal3]

And here I thought his wife was JBL!

Well, my gratitude to him. Though I don't post often, I have read a great many of his posts, and have been extremely fortunate for the opportunity. It would be gross understatement to say I've learned a lot from him. Here's to hoping he'll get over it and get back here to help us mere mortals! :cheers:

[boputnam]

I think Giskard will return after a time when he grows bored and his wife tells him he's a pain in the ass. Regrettably, I don't agree. We know full-well, his wife has never been the problem.

Collectively, we have.

I am not needing nor trying to be fatalistic - nor to create a martyr. IMO, Giskard has contributed too very much, and we have often innocently wasted his knowledge and most importantly (or tragically...) his generosity. As newer converts come in, this neediness by-definition becomes redundant. But, by being an acutely interested acoustical engineer, Giskard simply could not sit idly by, and tried to help all.

At the end of the day, there is only so-much that can be contributed "new" - it becomes an involvement of diminishing returns. Regardless, the endeavor needs remain rewarding and fulfilling.

The mis-perception of his persona and increasing attacks to his credibility took that away. Who can argue?

[Figge]

what? Giskard left us here?:(

what have i missed? he´s last post as i can see was about some 185 dx-1 destroyd in singapore? it dont make sense...

is this somehow confirmed or is it just speculations? if he has in fact took of i will shure as hell miss him, and his jbl knowlage! he probably know more about jbls than the rest of us put together...he aint leaving, he´ll be back by the end of the week.

Regards Fredrik

[Regis]

I understand that many of you want to line up behind your friend, it's basic human nature. My nature is that I have the freedom to not put absolute trust in anyone and if my inquiries are ignored then a private message with a firmer tone is called for. No personal insults were directed, nor were there any expletives or threats. In fact, because I was previously warned months ago of the sometimes malicious nature of the individual I was dealing with and his propensity for doing, just what he did Friday afternoon, I deliberately was careful in my emails (not PM's, mind you, Emails) and the response was to throw it on the board. The part that wasn't expected, was that it backfired, because this individual as you might remember repeatedly wanted the very thread that he started killed.

My friend Steve Gonzalez put in a very level-headed post last night that got pulled (but the funeral thread about 'former member' goes on), so there's a unfair slant. During this whole unfortunate affair, not one moderator, nor Don McRitchie in fact, no one, ever PM'd me or contacted me and said, "Regis, you were wrong in inquiring". I have not been kicked off the site and can still log in and post. I have no beef with the individual, but because of the decidedly (and IMHO) unfair political atmosphere here, I am stepping away from this site. No martyrdom here. It's been a pleasure dealing with many of you and sharing the stories. I hope Giskard comes back as well, as his knowledge is valuable and he's helped me out as well. Maybe he's learned something from all of this as well, I sure did. Have a good one. This portion of the thread will probably self-destruct.

Sincerely,

Regis

[louped garouv]

kinda sucks to see drama dragging everything down......

I am NOT taking sides......

and I wish the best to BOTH "members" in everything.....


PS -- I saw the thread last night... didn't seem anything earth-shattering..... :blah:

hopefully the :argue: and :bash: can eventually lead to :cheers: but :dont-know:

[Steve Gonzales]

Hi



I believe that about sums it up / though / I see the abuse as quite real.



I do hope that he is able to think through this / solve the riddles of such immersed involvement / and then re-establish a balance that will work more for his benefit .


:cheers: Abuse!?, come on fellas. I was trying to promote a call for FAIRNESS for BOTH Members. Regis is being made out to be some kind of bad guy, "the cause". I wish both members the best, I think that is clear, BOTH members, not just one. They both deserve understanding. There seems to be a vague and vailed reference to Regis having "attacked" Giskard and I don't like the way that puts all the blame on Regis. Get real, this matter should have stayed in the "private domain"- between the two men. I think it was a bad move to post the personal email on a public forum. That is what started this crap. I know I could handle this with a simple message to another member, like, "Hey, I've been busy and JBL parts are very hit and miss as to their exact delivery date, hang in there, I'll keep you posted, Regards, XXXXXX- EASY!!!!. So that leaves us to try and figure out this mess-by design- not chance. Come on you two, you're both Good Guys , knock it off and shake hands and let's get back to business as usual, okay?

[mikebake]

and let's get back to business as usual, okay?
IMO, there is no business as usual on here without Giskard. At least, not of the caliber as before.

[Steve Gonzales]

Nor is there BAU when one member is sacrificed for another

[Titanium Dome]

"Business as usual" will be whatever the active members make it. If we make it helping, learning, exploring, and discussing, then that's what the forum will be. If we make it something else, then that's what it becomes.

I think we all feel a sense of regret, and to a certain extent we want to second-guess what happened because we're looking for an explanation. However, the excusing and the blaming part can get personal, and we need to be sensitive to that.

If a member or members choose to leave, that is their right. No one is being forced out. If they choose to come back, they should be welcome. But the return of one is just as important as the return of another, unless there is an unspoken hierarchy here of Orwellian proportion: "All LH members are equal, but some are more equal than others."

Yes, we all have different gifts, different intellects, different training, different experience, and different personalities, but this forum serves as the great leveler, especially for those of us who have more to learn than to teach. Yet, as a student is not greater than the teacher, no teacher is greater than the students. It takes both to keep a heritage alive and both to make the transfer of knowledge complete.

Each of us has been a teacher and a student here, and as long as we are open to both roles, this forum will survive and conduct business as usual, with or without any specific members. I hold both Regis and Giskard dear to that enterprise, and wish to converse with both whenever they see fit to converse with me.

--------------------------

As a postscript to all this, I don't have to worry about being credited with posting the most vulgar word ever on the site, though I may choose to challenge for that distinction in the future.

[Steve Gonzales]

Ti Dome, I have the uttmost RESPECT for you Sir, YOU are a TRUE Moderator. Well Done!:applaud:

[Regis]

"I'm willing to let bygones be bygones. I've got no personal beef with you despite what happened. The only thing anger and revenge does is create a poison in our system, that is both acidic and toxic. I'm going to let go of the resentment and the anger. Your friends have stepped up for you and you should feel good about that. Let me know when you receive and ship out the diaphragms."

Sincerely,

Regis

I'm sorry to report that the response was angry and acidic, with the email being forwarded to all the moderators for direct action and monitoring (for what, I don't know). The sense I got was of permanent self-banishment from the site. While I may have inadvertantly been the so-called 'trigger', I feel that there's a lot more here than meets the eye and it's more than just what happened between us. He wants nothing to do with the forum or his former friends and I find that somewhat over-the-top. The anger is just not worth it. I tried. Thanks to all, for your responses both negative and positive.

[mikebake]

"All LH members are equal, but some are more equal than others."

That is a lovely concept, everyone being equal, and I appreciate both your intentions and efforts, but I don't personally buy it at all. Everyone being equal is basically a nice-sounding idea that has never been reality.
Who among us doesn't actually agree in most realms in life that some are more equal than others? Where did the phrase come from, after all?
We all have human dignity, but we do not all contribute the same to life, etc. etc. and hence are unequal.

All humans are equal, but some (Mother Theresa) and more equal than others (Pol Pot)................
Not every members input (i.e. my own) has equal value or weight. Therefore, the loss of some input is greater than the loss of others. It's not like anyone is going to cry if I don't post here, fer cryin' out loud. Nor should they!:D

[Audiokarma]

Chiming in a little late but I hope (and suspect) that Giskard is occasionally poking around here incognito to check the latest goings on with the controversy. ;)

If so, Giskard, besides your obvious technical prowess, I appreciate your "read between the lines", dry, and sometimes ascerbic wit. As a relative newbie to this site, I thoroughly enjoy the personal challenge of thinking of ways to ask "neophyte" questions in such a way as to not get skewered by you. You keep us all on our toes. LOL

Don't know you personally so can not claim to be a friend as many here can. But whether your sabbatical is temporary or actually permanent, hope you enjoy the break. Your immense contributions make it seem likely that it would be very difficult to maintain a balance with your other life interests.

Like many others, I'm sure, hope to see you around again sometime soon.

Later dude.....?

[Steve Gonzales]

Human dignity is on a MUCH higher level than ANY technical input, regardless of what forum or group we are a part of. People come to learn and to share here, if it's no big deal to someone, that is their right. My identity as a person does not increase or decrease because of the LHS, it is just a cool place ( most of the time) to share what you know and maybe learn something and make some friends too. I have to disagree with you on one person being of greater value than another, no way man. If I have to PAY for someones technical input by sacrificing another member, forget that. I've been doing this for a long time and I don't remember any of you standing by me and coaching me and I've done quite well for myself, thank you. I don't want to "pay a price" for info. There are many examples of patient and helpful people who share without a price here. I'll take that ANYDAY!.

[JBLnsince1959]

Steve:

I agree with most of what you say and yes, one person is not more important than another. Each has the gifts to share.....

Regis.... good to see ya back :thmbsup:

and guys....

let's not start another F**king war here on this thread. Please....

[Steve Gonzales]

I just hate to see the other rational go "unchecked". ;)

[JBLnsince1959]

I just hate to see the other rational go "unchecked". ;)

I know, I know......there's room for both sides ( or should be), but let's just make sure that things don't get heated and people start taking sides on this too much :blah: :blah: :blah:

we all need time to chill a little....

[louped garouv]

we all need time to chill a little



smoke 'em if you got em...... :D

[Steve Gonzales]

Now I'm AM gonna just let it go and hope both parties come back on good terms. PEACE:)

[jblnut]

smoke 'em if you got em...... :D

That's so last century....vaporize my friend, not smoke....;)


jblnut

[louped garouv]

That's so last century....vaporize my friend, not smoke....;)


jblnut

yeah...

after you vaporize, then you can sell it...... "cosmetically perfect," just no output... :blink:

[mikebake]

"Human dignity is on a MUCH higher level than ANY technical input, regardless of what forum or group we are a part of."

I never said otherwise, sir.

"I have to disagree with you on one person being of greater value than another, no way man."

I did not say that, Steve. I said value of input, not the person. Don't twist what I said.
Still, try the Mother Theresa/Pol Pot thing and explain it in your own value terms, then.


" I've been doing this for a long time and I don't remember any of you standing by me and coaching me"

Is there a reason why not?

"and I've done quite well for myself, thank you."

:)

"I don't want to "pay a price" for info."

Everything has some cost.

"There are many examples of patient and helpful people who share without a price here. I'll take that ANYDAY!."

Hey, tough choices have to be made sometimes. I'd push the button to sacrifice some members to preserve others, given the opportunity. Their input is not all equally worthwhile. And in this thread, neither is mine. Over and out.

[speakerdave]

IMO, there is no business as usual on here without Giskard. At least, not of the caliber as before.

Hear, hear!

There is not one iota of a possibility that any other member's contribution is in the same league with Giskard's. If there is a person who fancies himself taking Giskard's place, and I think there is, he can forget it. The one thing that made this forum an oasis on the internet was its capacity to raise the discourse above the level of opinion. Giskard provided almost all of that. Sometimes people need to be called on their factual errors, misrepresentations and self-serving, sanctimonious, hypocritical claptrap, and he was the only one here with the background, the knowledge and the personal force to do it. Without that element the forum will be of radically reduced value and the exodus will continue.

Personally, I would like to see the others directly involved in recent disputes follow Giskard into self-imposed silence on the subject.

David

[JBLnsince1959]

smoke 'em if you got em...... :D

just did :D ( and don't tell my doctor please)

[mikebake]

Hear, hear!

There is not one iota of a possibility that any other member's contribution is in the same league with Giskard's. If there is a person who fancies himself taking Giskard's place, and I think there is, he can forget it. The one thing that made this forum an oasis on the internet was its capacity to raise the discourse above the level of opinion. Giskard provided almost all of that. Sometimes people need to be called on their factual errors, misrepresentations and self-serving, sanctimonious, hypocritical claptrap, and he was the only one here with the background, the knowledge and the personal force to do it. Without that element the forum will be of radically reduced value and the exodus will continue.

Personally, I would like to see the others directly involved in recent disputes follow Giskard into self-imposed silence on the subject.

David

Good one, Dave!!!

:rotfl:

[Titanium Dome]

That is a lovely concept, everyone being equal, and I appreciate both your intentions and efforts, but I don't personally buy it at all. Everyone being equal is basically a nice-sounding idea that has never been reality.
Who among us doesn't actually agree in most realms in life that some are more equal than others? Where did the phrase come from, after all?
We all have human dignity, but we do not all contribute the same to life, etc. etc. and hence are unequal.




Hey Mike, I understand where you're coming from. I haven't turned into a softie trying to make everyone warm and fuzzy.

My daily work in the hardcore gang-controlled neighborhoods of LA just brings what you're calling "a nice-sounding idea that has never been reality" into pretty sharp focus. When a gangbanger (a girl no less) puts a gun to the back of my head and asks who I think I am, I better know how to say it in a way that makes us both equals in the end.

I grew up there in Lucas Co., Ohio, and I can remember the individualism, excellence, and selectivity I learned at Anthony Wayne High School. But here in the huge cultural stew of SoCal, that will get me killed if I don't watch out. When we get a large group of diverse people together, dignity, respect, and equality are always the keys to survival. People who don't have a lot or who haven't done a lot aren't all that interested in hearing how you're better than them, either by your own words or by the mouths of others.

So my point is that the wonderful cultural diversity of LH forum, dedicated to one pretty straightforward idea, creates a place where American, Aussie, Swede, South African, Kuwaiti, engineer, musician, hi-fi enthusiast, gadfly, rich, poor, horn-lover, inverted dome metalhead, everyone sits at the same table as equals. If we don't, then what kind of a community is it? Who gets the special chairs, and who determines that? Then do we have to get an even nicer chair to keep some of them or get them to come back to the table?

It's all a lot to swallow, I know, but I wanted you to know what was in my mind. You can always turn on the :blah: :blah: mode when you see my long-winded streak starting and skip to the next post. ;)

[mikebake]

Hey Mike, I understand where you're coming from. I haven't turned into a softie trying to make everyone warm and fuzzy.

My daily work in the hardcore gang-controlled neighborhoods of LA just brings what you're calling "a nice-sounding idea that has never been reality" into pretty sharp focus. When a gangbanger (a girl no less) puts a gun to the back of my head and asks who I think I am, I better know how to say it in a way that makes us both equals in the end.

;) My stint years ago as #121-098 started with a gun to the back of my head, and I became a master at knowing how to say it to make us both equals at the end; although actually you and I both know that we don't really make them equal, just make them feel that way. That is the difference.
Nothing smug on my end; I've travelled solo a fair bit, and lived in Germany alone at age 18, Costa Rica at 23, Texas and Florida in my 20's, roamed the south hitchhiking, etc. I understand the whole "equal" ethos, and that it isn't reality........just a perception.
Now in my own life, I have made it a general habit to try to build others esteem, in real ways, and my belief in the value of people is huge; most people are not appreciated enough, do not get enough praise, and need kindness. It is what works. "Force over" does not work, "power with" works. If you interview my sphere of influence and ask, I believe you'd see I am a giver, not a taker, and interested in the other fellow.

[spkrman57]

When Mike put the "Midwest Audio Fest" together last time in Lima, Ohio I will say for sure that he lost money on the event, but he did it anyways to get folks together and share their comeraderie (sp ???) together.

I had a great time and met folks I never would have run into in the regular world. Mike and his wife invited my GF and I to his house and treated us like royalty, you won't find that everywhere.

Not to mention he has sold me some great audio gear at prices lower than he would have gotten on e-bay.

Glad to have you as a friend Mike!!!!!

Ron

[hector.murray]

Not to mention he has sold me some great audio gear at prices lower than he would have gotten on e-bay.
ditto

[Don C]

Personally, I would like to see the others directly involved in recent disputes follow Giskard into self-imposed silence on the subject.

David

My thoughts exactly.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Well there is clearly some interesting insights here and some divided opinion.

So what are you guys looking for? A Bill of Rights or a Civil War.

If you want either your in the wrong place.

I can remember in the original forums (this is the 3rd generation I think) there were never any issues to speak and certainly non of this kind of discussion.

The purpose of the forums has not changed, only the people that occupy it.

If the discussion continues to slide further towards the whys and why not over recent events we may move the thread to the Forum Issues.

Ian

[johnaec]

Personally, I can sympathize with Giskard. It's beyond question he's the top expert around here, and because of that, almost by default he falls into the role of "giver" rather than "givee". I can see how it'd get tiring always giving answers, while there's little we can give back, much as we'd like to. I always felt extremely fortunate that he was inclined to fill so many requests, especially for documents and info no one else has access to, but what could anyone give in return? Sure, we can contribute what knowledge we have to the forum, but very little of this is likely useful to Giskard. I see this in a number of forums I visit - the one or two obvious experts just get burnt out - 'always on the giving end but rarely on the receiving.

I hope Giskard's just taking a well deserved "vacation", but either way, I can understand...

John

[Zilch]

Some may not realize it, but there's a substantial time commitment in doing what Giskard does here. It now takes several hours a day just to keep up with all of the forums. And many of the technical answers require research time, as well. Every time he puts up a voltage drive curve, that ain't just a couple of mouse clicks to come up with those for us, either.

Plus, there's always a bunch of "threads" in the background, via phone, PM and eMail. If I've got ten or so going on, Giskard must have 100 working. Everyone's gotta strike their own balance here. It's easy for me to see how it could get out of hand for someone so dedicated and generous as he is. Soon, it's all-consuming and unrewarding. I immensely appreciate the assistance he's given me. He's welcome to whatever space he needs as far as I'm concerned....

[Mr. Widget]

I think that it is time that we put this topic to rest... ending on an upbeat note.

Widget