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saeman
05-17-2005, 07:49 PM
At the suggestion of Bo Putnam I'm putting this thread out to start gathering information on the 4350 monitor. Hopefully everyone out there with 4350's will slam this thread and pile in the info. Let's try to break it down to specific versions of the 4350. From my research over the years I have 3 versions - 1. The original 4350 offered in 1974 only. Called the 4350 with white compliance 2230 woofs, 2202 mid base, 2440, early style 2405 with split ring mounted on face of baffle and 3107 x-over. The serial numbers (written on the baffle plate around the hi-freq adj was a simple 5 digit number 10 _ _ _. I have never seen a pair of these in person, only pictures. 2. The second version, also called the 4350 (but loosely refered to as 4350A's by some) came out in 1975. 2231 dark cone woofers, 2202, 2440 and new style 2405 with 4 hole mounting plate and same x-over. The serial numbers looked to be an extension of the 1 0 _ _ _ numbering but had an "A" suffix added. They ran up to the start of the 4350B's and only changed with the addition of the 2231A woofer when it came out. I suspect that there may have been one or more revisions to the x-over schematic but have no way of knowing for sure. I think the 4350B hit the streets in 1980 with the intro of the ferrite magnet(have to check my notes). 2231H, 2202H, 2440, 2405 and 3107. The serial numbering started new with this series. The scale of calibration also changed on the hi freq. control. The cabinets also changed slightly over the different series and I have some details that I can add to the thread later. These are my observations from being a 4350 fan. If you own 4350's and can supply additional info (even to the contrary) on your model please post it. Detailed pics of the internals and baffle would be nice. I have detail drawing of cabinet internals from 4350's and 4350B's and will try to get that info posted soon. Rick http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/bouncy.gif

boputnam
05-17-2005, 08:41 PM
Go ahead and do it in your newly created thread... Hopefully everyone will stay out of it until you're finished. :p

And to that end - FAIR WARNING!! :biting:

As one Moderator of this sub-forum, I will shield this thread against unneccessary gibberish or chat. Let's give Rick a chance to build it, first.

If you have legitimate 4350 dimensional information to share (measurements, cabinet interior photos with scale, etc) then pm me FIRST!!! :scold:

We have a very generous offer here to build a very useful and dearly sought-after thread. From doing the 4345 Plans thread, I know the time and efforts involved. Be patient...

Thanks, Rick!!

saeman
05-18-2005, 02:12 PM
The best place to start this thread is with a bit of philosophy/history/observation on how JBL built their cabinets. In the mid 60's (like 1967) JBL made a serious effort to build something other than a box with speakers in it. To that date they had the Paragon and Metregon on the market and the Olympus too. All of these made a fashion statemtent and sales went fairly well. Everything else they made was a box with goofy skinny Ricky Ricardo era legs, i.e. al the C34, C35, etc. cabinets. By the time 1970 hit they had carefully styled Sovereigns, the Verona, and others. Even though some of their designs like the Aquarius Series were somewhat of a marketing flop, it showed that JBL was inovative and serious about their cabinetry. They truely had the best cabinets on the market. Altec only came close with the Model 19, not just with eye appeal but with quality of construction. Altec stayed with screw on cabinet backs for most of their systems and behind the baffle mounted woofers. JBL closed their cabinets up and front mounted their woofs. There are some exceptions to this rule however JBL produced a far superior cabinet (remember the term - Living Room Friendly) than did any of their competitors. Besides the sound of a system, I have always looked past that to the build quality. JBL ran a legitimate cabinet shop, with old cabinet makers with fingers missing, etc. If you asked for something special JBL would do their best to build it. I got a quick tour of their Casitas Ave. facility in 1975 while in the service and on my way from Hawaii to Maine. I could have spent a week there. I had been building a pair of Sovereigns and JBL was absolutely awesome with their willingness to help (plans, pictures, advice). They were happy to see their components in any home brew box you might come up with. When I told them I was building Sovereigns, they couldn't believe it. Somewhere out there, if they didn't end up in someone's fire place, there exists a pair of South Americam Black Walnut Sovereigns. Will post some pics of them in another thread.

Their stab into the pro market came a few years later and even though the 43XX series were just boxes, they were built to the same quality as all of their furnature styled systems. Quality veneers and trim were used and precision assembly was the order of the time. Reproducing that quality on a commercial scale won't happen today. Material and labor costs won't allow it. Producing that quality today, in a home work shop environment is possible, and with only basic tools, some experience with the task and a LOT of patience. JBL used big cabinet presses that they fed their cabinets into after glueing all corners. Step on the foot pedal and ka-chunk. The press came down on all four sides and held the cabinet square while the assembly dried. They had hugh crosscut tables and a finishing shop to die for. Truely a woodworkers dream. My shop is bare bones in comparison but I have the basic tools necessary. Table saw, joiner, several routers (one will do), radial arm saw for crosscutting long pieces, a compound miter saw for doing the best job cutting trim pieces, a bunch of wood clamps and a sander. Enough said, I could ramble on forever on the virtues of JBL's cabinet work. I hope to add enough information and details to this thread to allow those who have the necessary tools and patience, to build a very accurate duplicate of their 4350 monitor.

saeman
05-18-2005, 02:51 PM
I will probably make each post with dialog and rambling and followup by adding pics and diagrams later. Having the post started will motivate me to add the pics ASAP so as not to leave everyone hanging. The base cabinet is the place to start. All details and dimensions are of course a function of the cabinet outside dimensions. From all printed literature I have seen on the 4350/4350B, the outside dimensions are 47 5/8" wide x 35" tall x 20" deep. Those numbers include the cabinet base in height and the grill in depth. The base cabinet is 47 5/8" W x 33" H x 18" D. All of the info that I post on this thread will be based on these dimensions. The removable base was actually 1 7/8" tall so their listing was off by 1/8" on the height.

The 4350 and 4350B cabinets that I have seen are made of 3/4" baltic birch. Top, Botton and Sides veneered with walnut, baffle painted blue (black on the utility gray models) and back painted black. I have seen two variations on how the cabinet corners were joined together. My 4350's have lock-miter joints and the 4350B cabs I am restoring have plain 45 degree miter joints. I would suspect that there are some dowel pins or splines hidden in the mitered joint somewhere. I would not expect JBL to just glue a joint that long. The baffle and back panels have a 1/4" wide x 3/8" deep rabbet edge cut all around them and they mount or plug into the top/bottom/sides in a dado cut 3/8" wide x 1/4" deep. This method supported their desire to make all of the seals air tight and solid. They go out of their way in printed literature to brag about their well constructed, heavily glued and air tight seams. When I add the sketches this info will make more sense.

ALL internal bracing is made of cheap pine lumber that is 1 1/2" x 2 1/2". Each piece is glued and screwed to the inside surface of the cabinet, in a predetermined location. On most models there are NO screws showing on the outside of the cabinet except the two screws visible on the baffle that hold the two braces between the baffle and the cabinet back. One exception that I have noted is on the original 1974 vintage 4350. On that model the long horizontal brace across the inside of the cabinet back panel is screwed from the outside thru the back and into the brace. The screw heads are therefore visible on the cabinet back. All others are screwed from the inside, thru the brace into the panel.

The mid-base box is constructed of 3/4" Particle Board, four sides and a back panel and is mounted directly to the baffle, and suported by the back panel cross brace. It's important to note that this box needs to be precision built and securely mounted to the baffle to ensure proper performance of the 2202. This is supposed to be a sealed air tight chamber of predetermined internal volume.

Those are the high-lites of the basic cabinet. I will have to add quite a few pics and drawings to support all of this information, and need to do that before going on to talk further about cabinet construction.

saeman
05-18-2005, 06:20 PM
The method of joining the cabinet corners warrants further discussion. Now that I have posted a detail of the two miter joints that JBL used, here are some considerations for deciding how you might want to proceed. Assume that you are looking at your cabinet top and it's 47 5/8" long and 17 5/8" wide and you've gone to no end of trouble to make sure that it has perfectly square corners and you've spent a bunch of time and money to veneer it. And now you're ready to cut the miters across the edges. It's a big piece of wood and weighs a bit too. Can you push it thru a table saw and be assured that the resulting cut will remain square with the sides. You can if you buy a neat little cross cut jig/attachment from Porter-Cable that costs near $300. When you've made your cut and it comes out square, will the edge of the cut be knife sharp without your veneer being chipped along the edge? Maybe. In order for this project to be worth your time the end product must have sharp corners that aren't full of plastic wood and if every piece of the cabinet ( sides, top and bottom ) isn't square the assembly will rock back and forth on a flat surface. Problem two is the effort that it will take to clamp the assembly together (assuming that you are able to cut 4 perfect pieces). It will require 8 big cabinet clamps that will span the height and width of the cabinet. That's a fair cash outlay. Considering these problems, and they're significant ones for the home wood worker, I've found a way around them. To my knowledge you can not buy walnut veneered baltic birch or P.B. so you'll have to veneer it youself. I consequently do my veneer work after the cabinet is put together. This opens up a better option for joining the corners together. No miters, just easy to cut rabbets and dados. You still need all corners square but the whole cabinet will sit together dry with no glue like a puzzle. The trim can be added afterwards, with mitered corners and the end appearance will be the same. From the detail you can see how easy the cabinet corners are compared to the stressing ordeal of mitering every corner. The only evidence of having used this method is when you look at the corners from the back of the cabinet. You'll see an outline of the joint. Who cares, you're building these for yourself. If someone gives me a blank check and says "Completely Duplicate Them" to the "n"th detail I'll do the time. Otherwise for my own enjoyment this is great. This method will cut your cutting time for cabinet prep by 2/3's and almost eliminate the risk of trashing possibly half of your veneer. Next post will include cabinet internal pics and a couple of details showing location of all internal bracing.

saeman
05-19-2005, 03:52 PM
Attached to this post are several 4350B cabinet interior pics and a drawing that shows the layout of the cabinet bracing. There are a couple of side braces that are not on my drawing. Just noticed that after posting it. Will update and repost later. All dimensions are referenced to the outside edge of the cabinet back panel. Remember that there is a rabbet cut 1/4" wide x 3/8" deep all around the edge of the cabinet back. The interior pics show the long horizontal brace across the cabinet back and the two vertical back braces. There are two braces attached to the bottom - front to back and two braces per side front to back. The mid-base box acts as a large brace between the baffle and the back. Not shown on my drawing, but evident in the pics, are two braces between the baffle and the back just above the woofer cutouts. JBL attached all of the panel braces before assembling the cabinet. They were glued and screwed to their respective panels. You will notice wedges driven in between a couple of the braces and one between a bottom brace and the baffle. They were glued in and acted to stiffen everything up and eliminate any rattling or vibrations. It's not uncommon to open up a vintage cabinet and find one or more of these wedges laying loose in the cabinet. Over years of exposure to changing humidity they are known to work loose. If you choose to build a pair of 4350's (or any other big monitor) you would be wise to install the braces individually after the cabinet shell is constructed, measure them exact and glue and screw the hell out of them. Wedges will then not be necessary. The pics also show the 6 port duct tubes. They are 12" tubes and are recessed 1/2" into the baffle from inside. They are 3" ID. More on this when I post info on the baffle. As stated in an earlier post, all of the internal braces are 1 1/2" x 2 1/2" pine. If you're interested in improving upon this you could use poplar instead. It's a bit harder and not too expensive.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/bouncy.gif

saeman
05-19-2005, 03:55 PM
Additional interior pics

saeman
05-19-2005, 05:06 PM
JBL had all the toys in their shop that were required to build a great cabinet. All of us "home boys" have to work with less. In the last post I showed an alternate method of joining the cabinet corners. A cabinet press would make it near impossible to end up with a cabinet that's out of square. It would sit flat on a level surface and life would be great. Without a press there is a risk of ending up with a lopsided cabinet, especially with mitered corners. The 4350's that I am currently building will use the dado/rabbet corners. I have built several sets of cabinets using this method (4331's, 4315's and a couple of other customs). IF your baffle and back are PERFECTLY square the cabinet with end up square. The experienced cabinet builders out there know what I'm talking about and might even take some exception to what I'm saying. They also will know from their own experiences that with a cabinet this size, the task of squaring it up is essential with the tools found in a home shop. Using this corner technique will allow you to assemble the cabinet dry before glueing and check every part and every corner for square, without it falling in pieces to the floor. Attached pics will give all interested some ideas. The 4350's I'm doing now are being built from the inside out. Baffle and back with all braces and attachments done in an assembly. When the assembly is done it will be set on the cabinet bottom, the sides will be set in and the top put in place. To accomplish this I built a platform that is as perfectly flat as I could get it. It's a 2 x 4 frame base with 3/4" P.B. screwed and glued on top of it. It's a few inches deeper than the 4350 cabinet and also longer. One end is open and the other end has a perfectly square short wall with dados cut in it. The inside depth of the 4350 is 15 7/16" so I cut two 3/8" dado's 48" long and 15 7/16" apart. This flat jig platform simulates the cabinet bottom. I also cut several spacer blocks with the same dado's in them, as movable spacers so I can keep the baffle and back at the proper spacing while installing all of the braces and the mid-base box. After the entire assembly is dry fitted it will be dissembled, glued, placed back on the jig and screwed together. Think about this option if you decide to build. The end product will be BETTER than what JBL produced - I still believe they produced a cabinet second to none. Rick

saeman
05-19-2005, 05:10 PM
Additional Pics

saeman
05-19-2005, 05:37 PM
I knew I had some pics that would show the cabinet corners fab'd using the dado/rabbet technique. They're of a pair of 4331A's I built about 5 years ago. On your browser, blow up the corner detail and you'll see a faint outline of the joint.

saeman
05-20-2005, 07:22 PM
The below posted drawings show the details of the cabinet bottom and the base. Remember that all of the dimensions assume that the cabinet bottom is 47 5/8" wide x 18" deep. Adjustments will have to be made to these drawing dimensions if it is not. The base is painted black. I used Satin Black Enamel - two coats with a roller to fill the grain and give it some texture. Let the enamel dry two or three days before you put the cabinet on your wife's carpet.

saeman
05-20-2005, 08:02 PM
BAFFLE - The following drawings show the layout of the baffle. There are 52 holes that range in size from 9/64" to 13 15/16".To cut these holes I made router templates from 1/4" plexiglass (lexan) and have had and used them on other projects. With templates the baffle can be cut complete in about two hours. Without templates you have a job ahead of you. REMEMBER - the desired end result is ROUND holes. All of my templates have X-Y cross hairs on them and they're simply lined up on the baffle and clamped in place. The router rotates around the inside of the template (no screw-ups that way). I use templates to cut all woofer holes, holes for the 2311 and 2405, duct holes and the associated recess for the tube and for the terminal board opening on the cabinet back. I'll lay some of them out and take a couple of pics so you can see what they look like. I also made templates for the 2311 and 2405 mounting holes. Nothing's more frustrating than to try mounting components just to find that the mounting holes are off. Here's a list of hole sizes in the baffle.

10) 9/64" - 2405, L-Pad mount
26) 9/32" - 2311, 2202, 2231, steel brackets
1) 5/8" - L-Pad knob
6) 3" - Ports
2) 3 1/16" - 2405
2) 4 1/4" - 2311
1) 11 1/16" - 2202
2) 13 15/16" - 2231
2) - 10 x 2" wood screws for baffle braces

More baffle details later - Rick http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gif

saeman
05-21-2005, 01:32 PM
Baffle - Included in this post are 3 drawings (post later this evening) showing the remaining baffle details. Included are dimensional drawings of the 2231's and 2202 and their mounting holes and a dimensional drawing of the mounting details for the 2311 and 2405. The last drawing shows the layout on the baffle for the Velcro Tabs that hold the grills on, including the plastic grill pegs.

This will be the last post showing construction details until I start fabricating the grills. I think all information necessary to build the 4350 is supplied in the various posts. I will shortly include some pics of the templates that I have made and used for the project. Right now my 4350 project is on the back burner but I'll add info and pics to this thread as I continue to work on the cabinets. When they are ready for veneer I will post again and I can then add pics and dialog on my approach to that task; taking all interested parties through to the finished product.

Throughout this post I have refrained from discussing the minor detail differences that I have found between the early and late cabinets and also the minor differences between the 4350 and 4350B cabinets. I'm not sure I have seen enough 4350's to be able to draw any significant conclusions. If anyone out there is interested please feel free to ask.

I only have pics of the Gray utility 4350's and have never seen a pair. I would appreciate hearing from gray owners and need detailed pics of the baffle and front edges of the cabinets. I would also appreciate seeing good close-up pics of the baffle foil cal on your 4350's. http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/bouncy.gif

saeman
05-21-2005, 05:21 PM
Baffle Foil Cal - Attached are two pics that show the foil cal for the 4350 and the 4350B. The differences are obvious. Unless there were changes in the x-over circuitry is there any reason why the scale of calibration for the hi frequency control would be changed?

I also had a pic of the foil cal from the early 1974 1st year 4350 so have added it. You can see that is identical in design and wording to the later 4350 version. Unlike the later 4350 variation, it does not have the "A" suffix after the serial number.

Most won't see or care about the differences. For those out there who want to accurately restore a vintage pair, all of the info in this thread will hopefully lend to that goal. There are a lot of pairs of 4350's out there that have been chopped, hacked and had who knows what off the wall, non-JBL components put in them. Restoring them is a worthy goal, and cheaper than doing a 57' Chevy.

saeman
05-27-2005, 08:43 PM
Attached are some pics showing plexiglass templates that I use for the various holes cut in the baffle. Cutting the templates is an initial investment in time that pays off when it's necessary to cut several holes of a given size, and end up with uniformity. The time spent cutting the template will come back in spades with nice round holes that are all the same size. If you're only going to cut one hole you'll have to decide ????? Also shown is a jig for properly locating and drilling the mounting holes for the 075/2405 on one side and holes for the H91, H93, 2307, etc. on the other side - worth it's weight in gold. All for now - more later when I get back to construction of the cabinets. Rick http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gif

Paky33
11-22-2005, 04:25 PM
Hi,
perhaps you can help me.
I want to change the terminals to my JBLs 4350 first series (with A later the serial number).
Do you know me to say as the plate with the original terminals is fixed at box? Is possible remove it without damage the speaker?
I would want to do a new člate with a WBT's terminal to use my heavy cables.
Thanks for your help

Rolf
11-23-2005, 02:34 AM
Hi,
perhaps you can help me.
I want to change the terminals to my JBLs 4350 first series (with A later the serial number).
Do you know me to say as the plate with the original terminals is fixed at box? Is possible remove it without damage the speaker?
I would want to do a new člate with a WBT's terminal to use my heavy cables.
Thanks for your help

No problems to install new terminals.

Rolf

Paky33
11-23-2005, 04:35 PM
No problems to install new terminals.

Rolf

Thanks Rolf for the answer.
I would want to know how the plate of the original terminalses has fixed in the announcer.
Do you know it?
Is it alone glued or also screwed?
Have you had experience with different terminals?
Thanks for your patience!:banghead:

boputnam
11-23-2005, 05:40 PM
Hey, Rick...

In the advanced interest in parsing things "better" here, I'm moving this to Technical Help, since it is far beyond "General". One day, this might constitute a Thread in "JBL Authentic Reconstruction", or some such.

Robh3606
11-23-2005, 06:17 PM
Hello Rick

Nice thread!!! I have the 4350 Manual I will tack on. If you want I can get it into the Library or on a profile thread if you don't want it here or think it's out of context.

Rob:)

Rolf
11-24-2005, 01:15 AM
Thanks Rolf for the answer.
I would want to know how the plate of the original terminalses has fixed in the announcer.
Do you know it?
Is it alone glued or also screwed?
Have you had experience with different terminals?
Thanks for your patience!http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/banghead.gif

Hi. I changed terminals a log time ago on a pair of 4333A's, and as far as I can remember I removed the woofer and then have access to the terminals from the inside. The terminals are attached with a nut only. I made the holes in the plate larger, so they fit the new terminals.

I believe any quality terminal is good. (I refuse to believe it is possible to hear changes in sound with thathttp://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/redface.gif )

Rolf

saeman
11-25-2005, 02:13 PM
Hi Rob: I would say that the 4350 Manual fits into this thread nicely. Thanx for adding it. Might be nice to include it in the library too - might take a while before it shows up though.

Thanks - Rick http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gif

saeman
11-25-2005, 02:19 PM
Hi Bo: Technical is likely a better arena for this type of material. I initiated the thread in "General" thinking that one of you "Mods" might eventually move it elsewhere. Seems like "General" is a good place to ask questions and expose new info, when you're not sure where it ultimately belongs. Thanx - Rick


Hey, Rick...

In the advanced interest in parsing things "better" here, I'm moving this to Technical Help, since it is far beyond "General". One day, this might constitute a Thread in "JBL Authentic Reconstruction", or some such.

Paky33
11-25-2005, 04:21 PM
Hi. I changed terminals a log time ago on a pair of 4333A's, and as far as I can remember I removed the woofer and then have access to the terminals from the inside. The terminals are attached with a nut only. I made the holes in the plate larger, so they fit the new terminals.

I believe any quality terminal is good. (I refuse to believe it is possible to hear changes in sound with thathttp://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/redface.gif )

Rolf

Thanks Rolf,
I wanted to know if I succeeded in removing the original plate to replace it with a new with above the new terminals.
On other speakers I have felt a great difference replacing the terminals.
I don't know if on the my 4350 there will be this difference but surely I can use bigger cables and of best quality.
Pasquale

saeman
03-14-2006, 11:03 AM
After months of screwing around with other projects, I've decided to restart my 4350 project. I have always had two major problems building big cabinets like the 4350's. First is getting every piece cut uniform and SQUARE. If the pieces are not square and true to size the cabinet will not go together right. The second problem is properly clamping it during assembly, without using a dozen or so pipe style cabinet clamps. On this project I have somehow managed to solve these problems.

All pieces were jig/fixture cut to specs within 1/64" and damn if I don't have perfect square corners too. And I now have my new "Super Wamadyne, Non-Self Loading, Non-Automated, FULL MANUAL Cabinet Press". I finished it yesterday and gave it a test run this morning. Seems to work perfect and I'll add on some side clamps later.

Here's some pics. If anyone decides to build a big pair of cabinets let me know. When I'm done using it I can put it in the loaner department - you pay the R/T freight.

Rolf
03-14-2006, 11:50 AM
You are a true master of construction. :applaud:

Ralf
03-16-2006, 07:28 AM
After months of screwing around with other projects, I've decided to restart my 4350 project. I have always had two major problems building big cabinets like the 4350's. First is getting every piece cut uniform and SQUARE. If the pieces are not square and true to size the cabinet will not go together right. The second problem is properly clamping it during assembly, without using a dozen or so pipe style cabinet clamps. On this project I have somehow managed to solve these problems.

All pieces were jig/fixture cut to specs within 1/64" and damn if I don't have perfect square corners too. And I now have my new "Super Wamadyne, Non-Self Loading, Non-Automated, FULL MANUAL Cabinet Press". I finished it yesterday and gave it a test run this morning. Seems to work perfect and I'll add on some side clamps later.

Here's some pics. If anyone decides to build a big pair of cabinets let me know. When I'm done using it I can put it in the loaner department - you pay the R/T freight. wow...perfect work

saeman
03-18-2006, 09:48 AM
The new cabinet press worked real well but as I expected, I need to add side clamps. Here's two cabinets together and ready for veneer. After I get some more aluminum and weld up the side clamps I'll post another pic.

Regis
03-18-2006, 03:07 PM
Rick,
Excellent work as usual! You've gotta be proud, but I gotta ask, who helps you lift these things around?

hapy._.face
03-18-2006, 05:52 PM
Hey Rick,

I would say 'I'm impressed', but I'm not. I've come to almost expect that everything you do has a great attention to detail. I am surprised by the press you built; When you first described it to me- I imagined it would be much larger and clumsy- shoulda known it too would be beautiful!
This may sound sacreligious, but I don't think anyone building an original 4350 at JBL had as much appreciation as you do for them. Those babies are built with LOVE!
This thread is wonderful to read and look at even though I never plan to build my own. You have a wonderful amount of insight to the 4350. It kinda goes without saying, but I will anyways:
Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge and build experience with us. Know that it is greatly appreciated!
Carry on. :applaud:


Travis.

saeman
03-18-2006, 08:10 PM
Rick,
Excellent work as usual! You've gotta be proud, but I gotta ask, who helps you lift these things around?

Regis - It's no problem moving em around. I have a 17 yer old son, Junior in H.S. This past Christmas he asked for this big gigantic oylmpic style weight lifting rig. It takes up 30-40 square foot of my work area in the garage. I said Ok. When it's time to carry 4350's up and down the stairs I just tell him it's time to stop pumping iron and pump wood. He bitches but always pitches in. I also have a 6' tall 13 year old to fill in when needed. "No Problem"

saeman
03-18-2006, 08:22 PM
Hey Trav - Thanx for the compliments. I hope that when you get your project off the ground that you'll load progress reports out here for us to follow. I started this thread some time back by posting the drawings/plans that I had. Now after quite some time passing, I'm now able to add the pics that will show the cabs going together, more coming. Hopefully some other forumites will be inspired get started building their own.

I expected you to comment on my last pic - box in the left side of the pic with purple lettering - arrived safely, unboxed and sitting in the living room. Thanx

saeman
03-19-2006, 10:30 AM
Here's a few more pics. Good or Bad, Right or Wrong, this is how they built them. All panels were insulated prior to cabinet assembly. It's much easier than trying to get up into some of the areas and trying to install insulation after the cabinet is whole. I suppose anyone deciding to build a pair could improve in some areas. The baffle, back and cabinet walls could be thicker (like the 4355) and some add'l bracing could be added. I hurt my knuckels rapping on the these cabinets looking for areas of weak bracing. They are rock solid as originally built by JBL. More pics later.

Rick :)

4313B
03-19-2006, 06:17 PM
Very nice Rick! :yes:

BTW - I told Greg I was building you a pair of biased 4355 filters. His response was something like "Whoa! Those will really sound nice with biased filters." Don was there, he can elaborate if he wishes.

mech986
04-10-2006, 07:58 PM
Rick,

What is the type of fiberglass insulation and thickness that you are using? Is it stapled in and around the bracing? Also, how much coverage on the various panels? Do you know if JBL's insulation was very dense and thick or somewhat teased out or fluffy?

I've got a 4333B that had all the fiberglass taken out and 4 inch egg crate foam was placed into almost every flat nook and cranny. Might work Ok but certainly isn't original. Obviously to reinstall, I'm going to have to work through the woofer hole for most of it. Thanks for any information you could provide.

Regards,

Bart

Ken Pachkowsky
04-11-2006, 07:51 AM
Riessen, I have watched you complete many a project over the last couple of years and wanted to compliment you on yet another great looking project. I am very impressed with the ingenuity of your clamp system.:applaud:

PS. I wish you were closer so I could retain your services to square up the rounded edges on my cabs and apply walnut veneer.:)

Ken

northwood
04-11-2006, 09:50 AM
Waiting for more:applaud:

saeman
04-11-2006, 07:23 PM
Rick,

What is the type of fiberglass insulation and thickness that you are using? Is it stapled in and around the bracing? Also, how much coverage on the various panels? Do you know if JBL's insulation was very dense and thick or somewhat teased out or fluffy?

I've got a 4333B that had all the fiberglass taken out and 4 inch egg crate foam was placed into almost every flat nook and cranny. Might work Ok but certainly isn't original. Obviously to reinstall, I'm going to have to work through the woofer hole for most of it. Thanks for any information you could provide.

Regards,

Bart

Bart: I use a yellow 1" non-shedding fiberglass type that is identical to that used by JBL, as far as I can tell. It looks identical to everything I have seen inside their cabinets. I get it from a supplier in the Chicago area. This same insulation has been discussed on the forum before. I can't remember the company name right now but you should be able to find it in a search. It comes in 50' rolls, 1" x 24" wide.

Some of the guys have doubled it up to achieve greater thickness. From this company 1" is the max. they offer.

Rick - :)

Mr. Widget
04-11-2006, 07:39 PM
It's called Wrap-on.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=35394&postcount=7



Widget

saeman
04-11-2006, 07:40 PM
Riessen, I have watched you complete many a project over the last couple of years and wanted to compliment you on yet another great looking project. I am very impressed with the ingenuity of your clamp system.:applaud:

PS. I wish you were closer so I could retain your services to square up the rounded edges on my cabs and apply walnut veneer.:)

Ken

Hi Ken: You're obviously settled back in Canada now and back in full swing. I've been meaning to drop you a line. How did your Westie grilles turn out??

I recently skinned the 4350 cabinets in some of the prettiest figured walnut veneer I have ever seen. I'm just tonight installing components and putting velcro tabs all over the baffles. I'll post some pics when they're ready to look at.

Thanks for the compliments. My make-shift cabinet press might seem a bit anal to some but for me it was the smartest tool I have added to my shop since I bought my first table saw. I probably have 8 routers, a bunch of drills, two table saws, joiner, jigs, templates, clamps, etc. Everything to process the wood, but I had nothing to make assembly easier and more acurate. The press idea replaces about 8 pipe clamps when assembling a big cabinet, a bunch of time and even more frustration. The big plus is that there is NO flex over the 4' clamping span so it clamps evenly over the width of the cabinet. Since I'm always coming up with some cabinet project, I should get good use out of it. Cost was a couple hundred $$ worth of 2x2 square tube aluminum and a few hours of tig time on the welder. If I had to pay going fab shop rates to have it built I'd likely not have it.

You should tag along with John sometime when he comes down this way from Winnipig. He was by a few weeks ago and I might see him again in a couple weeks or so. Bring your westies with you.

Later - Rick

QwertyAccess
04-13-2006, 03:03 AM
Love the work, it looks beautiful, though regarding that Wrap-On thing Widget speaks of, that individual post, mmmm pink insulation that'd be pretty scary sight to see.

saeman
04-13-2006, 11:28 AM
regarding that Wrap-On thing Widget speaks of, that individual post, mmmm pink insulation that'd be pretty scary sight to see.

The insulation from Wrap-On is all yellow - like that used by JBL on most monitors.

I did open up a real old pair of Sovereigns some time back to find both yellow and pink insulation inside. Maybe they ran out of yellow.

saeman
04-13-2006, 12:13 PM
Here's some pics to followup on those previously posted. Am just about finished except for making the grilles. Tonight I'll put the covers over the unused ports, staple on a few remaining velcro tabs and try to fire them up.

Regis
04-13-2006, 12:18 PM
Rick, you've done a beautiful job on those! They are awesome and your wood choice came out very, very well! :D You've got to be a proud papa and better yet, your sweat went into these, so listening to them has to be special. Thanks for the great pics!

saeman
04-13-2006, 12:33 PM
Rick, you've done a beautiful job on those! They are awesome and your wood choice came out very, very well! :D You've got to be a proud papa and better yet, your sweat went into these, so listening to them has to be special. Thanks for the great pics!

Hi Regis - Thanks for the compliments. I hope to listen to these for a while - short while. I did them for a friend in Michigan so they won't be around too long. They look much better now than they did some months back. Sitting in the garage is a pair I'm scratch building for a friend in Germany. Hope to have them veneered soon and they too will be on their way. Tough to see them go but I have a pair of my own. I hope to get back to my own projects soon. I've been trying to build a pair of 4355's for some time. Some of the wood is cut so I hope to get them done - don't ask me why - as I have no room in the house and keeping them is a slim option.

yggdrasil
04-13-2006, 02:35 PM
Great job Rick.

It is fascinating seeing your "disease" in action. Good luck on those 4355's....:D Don't mind the space, that's irelevant.

Keep up the good work.

saeman
04-26-2006, 07:20 PM
Here's a few pics of the finished effort. Sitting here with John from Winnipeg listening to them now.

Charlie4350
04-26-2006, 07:29 PM
Too Sweet. You matched the end grain.

chuck

invstbiker
04-26-2006, 08:08 PM
Love the brown grill cloth and the woodwork :applaud:

saeman
04-26-2006, 08:22 PM
Black grille cloth actually - new owner's choice? The figured walnut was my choice. Some pics taken in sun light would be nice. The camera flash just sells them short.

invstbiker
04-26-2006, 08:28 PM
Audiobeer, ya there? I need to get mine to look like these. F***kin'
bee yoo tee full. Just showed my wifey these pics, "Look honey at these beauties" HA, she just shook her head, "you crazy man"

Titanium Dome
04-26-2006, 08:38 PM
:moon: ...and call me Sally! Those are very nice.

Congratulations on a job well done. :yes:

Steve Gonzales
04-26-2006, 10:56 PM
Absolutely Out-F**kin'-Standing Rick!!. Black grills, Brown Walnut, Blue Baffles, GREEN WITH ENVY!!:D . You are a Master Craftsman, Major KUDOS!. Thank you for sharing the pics Bud :applaud: .

Mr. Widget
04-26-2006, 11:25 PM
You guys are too generous... I think he needs to make a few more so that he really gets it right.:bs:

As always, very nice work!

...and I haven't forgotten about our Paragon discussion expect a late night e-mail when you least expect it.;)


Widget

hapy._.face
04-27-2006, 03:27 AM
Rick,

That's a lovely walnut grain. I like it better than the rosewood- absolutely perfect! You sure do build the shit out of a studio monitor. nice.

saeman
04-27-2006, 06:35 AM
You guys are too generous... I think he needs to make a few more so that he really gets it right.:bs:


Widget: You're absolutley right. A couple more are in order to get things right. Am soon to finish a pair of rosewood 4350B's for a friend in Germany. After that I'll get back to restoring my early pair of 4350's that have been sitting for months untouched. I think then my 4355 project will get some attention. They have been on my list for over 5 years. Amazing how you can get side tracked with this stuff. After that I'm gunna sit on my ass for several months and do NOTHING. We can then start talking about your Paragon.

Later - Rick

DavidF
04-27-2006, 12:18 PM
Very nice work, Rick. The veneer job looks top-notch. The grills, the fit and trim, all nicely done. Quite a time investment that paid off, no doubt.

And thanks for sharing the results.

DavidF

Woody Banks
04-27-2006, 03:22 PM
Rick
ABSOLUTELY STUNNING!!! BEAUTIFUL VENEERING JOB. :applaud:

saeman
06-22-2006, 04:22 PM
All in good time !! Several of you have asked me for plans for the upper and lower grille set for the 4350. Here are some drawings that should answer your questions.

Rick :bouncy:

saeman
06-22-2006, 04:23 PM
more pics

Guido
06-23-2006, 03:41 PM
The veener is outstanding :applaud:

Jeff M
07-27-2006, 07:44 PM
So, how did they sound? Super nice job and great attention to detail . I am a furniture maker and I am impressed with your dedication:applaud: . I only have a "tiny" set of 4333A's and now I would love to check the sound coming out those:bouncy: . Where are you located anyways? Far from Erie, PA?

saeman
07-27-2006, 08:31 PM
Hi Jeff - I'm in the Chicago area. Thanx for the comments. Nothing wrong with 4333's and they're not that small. If I could keep everything I'd still have mine. Not too long ago I sold a beautiful mint pair of gray 4333B's and a walnut pair of 4333A's too. Truth be told, I don't have a big enough room to get the best out of 4350's, but !!! Regards - Rick

John
07-27-2006, 09:06 PM
Hey Jeff I heard them!!! It was a JBL wall of sound!!!:applaud:

threefff
08-08-2006, 01:27 PM
Hi Rick,

a-ma-zing, absolutley amazing.

Some questions about the veneering: How did you do it? How did you press these big areas? Did you use your cabinet press again? What do you use to glue it on?

Lots of questions, I know. Sorry, but I need to improve myself on veneering.

Cheers
Thomas