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View Full Version : Between 4430 and S2600, I made my choice!



ngccglp
05-05-2005, 03:08 AM
Pls don't reprimand me for making this decision :p

Just got back from the dealer's place, there they were, sitting there waiting to be purchased, 4430 (condition VG+) and S2600 (Mint and boxed). I spent the afternoon listening to both, the 4430 sounds BIG, vocals sounds like you are really inthe studio, the air, gasp! Flawless highs.

Although I always wanted to buy the 4430 or 4435 (I even bid for one in ebay, but did not win) I decided to let it pass and go for the S2600 instead. My reasons are as follows:

1. Even with a 200W Luxman amp, the 4430 sounded slow (I'm trying hard not to use the word boomy) in the bass.
2. I have a small listening room 3.5 m X 3.5 m, and the speakers are huge! I did not realize this from pictures, but they are BIG.
3. The S2600 is almost like brand new, even the speakers terminals and jumpers were not oxidized.

I know I will live to regret this. Now, just anxiously waiting for the delivery of my S2600... :D

4313B
05-05-2005, 03:40 AM
"I know I will live to regret this."

I can't imagine why. You gave them both a listen, the 4430's seem huge to you, the S2600's are newer. Sounds like you made the right choice to me. Are we going to see pictures?

:)

BTW - what Luxman amp?

Guido
05-05-2005, 04:16 AM
I'll have to make a hard decision soon too. So congratulations for the S2600 !

ngccglp
05-05-2005, 04:44 AM
Pictures no problem. I'll borrow my sis digi cam and take some nice shots asap!
Anyway, just got a ring from the dealer, apparently he cannot make the delivery tonight. So I can only get it tomorrow. :banghead:

I said I will regret the decision because a good condition, BIG, JBL, studio monitor (4344, 4350, 4430, 4435) are hard to come by. I'm a volume freak and like rock and jazz, and have fantasize blasting Mountain's Missisippi Queen or Hendrix's Voodoo Chile using the 4350!!!. But back in the real world, I only have a 3.5 by 3.5 m room for music.

Regis
05-05-2005, 07:02 AM
....decisions, decisions! I passed up on a pair of 4430's myself after doing the research here. I'm not ready for the bi-amping scene just yet and the slew of strange deals with the 'cards' kind of threw me too. Please post some pics of the S2600 when you have a chance!:applaud:

Zilch
05-05-2005, 11:06 AM
Sounds like a difficult choice, and the S2600's are sure to please. I look forward to seeing the pics! :D
I passed up on a pair of 4430's myself after doing the research here. I'm not ready for the bi-amping scene just yet and the slew of strange deals with the 'cards' kind of threw me too. This quote from JBLnsince1959:

"Any time i go to "make it better" with bi-amping or other methods I just mess it up. Some how the "magic" begins to disappear which is why I use the internal crossover most of the time now."

After all of the work I've done with alternative configurations thus far, I have to agree that 4430's play just fine on the internal crossover alone. Don't be put off by discussions about biamping and stuff. Just hook 'em up and enjoy! If you just GOTTA mess, concentrate upon upgrading the crossovers.

That's another thread, tho. Just wanted to counter in place this perception....

JBLnsince1959
05-05-2005, 01:20 PM
I'll weight in here a little and I'll also explain myself a little more with the Bi-amp thingy too.

Sounds like you made the correct decision for the size room you have. The 4430's ARE F**KING big, size and sound. Sometimes they are almost too much for my listening room ( 17X22 feet, 8 foot ceiling), but God help me I love the sound. Also, as far as the bass being slow ( or boomy) too many variables there, I don't think they are, BUT it all depends, cables will make a different ( inside and out), room a difference, placement in the room, on the floor or off, depends, depends depends ( and I'm not talking diapers here, altho if played to loudly you might need them - ha). So I think you made the correct decision, BOTH are great speakers, just different.

I've gone both ways with the 4430's, pro and very good Consumer amps and i'm now using consumer amps ( mac's, marantz, aragon). There are advanges to the bi-amp thingy as they can sound really good that way, things can get more "clear" and dynamic, the improvement is most noticeable with pro amps, or should I say the difference is "better" when using 2 pro amps instead of one.

But I use mind for stereo listening and that's when the bi-amp thingy changes things. I would be hard pressed to be able to explain the difference in words But for whatever is gained by bi-amping, something is also lost. I'm not sure if it's just the active crossover ( ashly) or what. But certain musical aspects begin to disappear ( noticed mostly with the MAC).

But more importantly something else is lost ( in IMHO). The 4430's do one of the best jobs of mating together two different speakers. There is something very "coherent" with the sound of the 4430. I'm not sure what it is ( time-alignment, group delay, crossover point etc), but the 4430 is one of the best over all designs I've heard. the sound has a certain cohesion that I've not heard from other speakers and it is that "cohesion" that's gone when I use active crossovers. personally i think it's one of the best engineering feats in speakers. Now, i'm not saying that the 4430 is the BEST speaker ever made ( of course NOT)nor is it the "best" speaker I've heard ( I'm thinking of selling mine to make room for the performance series - maybe), but the engineering behind it and the sound it makes as far as integrating two different speakers ( a sub-woofer with a compression horn) is pure genius. ( and of course the Butt-cheeks are cool also)

Ok, enough of this........

Good choice on your part. Hope you enjoy ( and I know you will) your new speakers. I really think you did the best thing.

ngccglp
05-05-2005, 03:36 PM
Thanks guys for the affirmation for my decision. I'm wide awake at 4 am (I knew this would happen) still thinking about both speakers.

From my brief encounter with the 4430, I know it will take quite a bit of effort to realize its full potential in my room, not impossible, but need effort. I know there are many variables to the sound I heard today, but from experience, we can roughly predict/anticipate the equipment, adjustments and fine tuning work required. In fact while I was there, I was already thinking what it will take to make this BIG baby sing.

I guess why many prefer to bi-amp the 4430 is probably to get better control of the bass. It has a very full bass and personally I would like to tighten that up to get a bit more 'thud' in the kick drum. But once active x-over is used, you will probably face the difficult task of getting the two drivers to be coherent again.

In comparison, the S2600 is almost like 'plug and play'. I was surprised by the spec that this baby can go down to 30Hz. It didn't sound that way when I heard it, but then again, that was probably due to the A/B comparison with the 4430. Hope it will perform in my room.

ngccglp
05-05-2005, 04:28 PM
Hi Giskard,

That must be it, because I cannot hear clearly the bass articulation of the double bass, just boom boom boom. Can the tune down be done easily? Thanks.

ngccglp
05-05-2005, 04:50 PM
Seems like I may need to go back and 'inspect' the 4430 again...:D

JBLnsince1959
05-05-2005, 07:38 PM
Seems like I may need to go back and 'inspect' the 4430 again...:D

Here we go again...... :D

Thanks for the tip Giskard.. wish I had known that before. Altho my ears must not be as good as ngccglp's ( too many concerts or 15"ers over the years) as the bass never bothered me.

ngccglp
05-06-2005, 04:21 AM
I knew from the start this is too good to be true...:banghead:

Due to unforeseen cirsumstances, the S2600 is no longer available (I will not elaborate). Seems like I may have to settle for 4430.

Hi Giskard,
To tune the 4430 down, is it OK if I stuff the port with foam? I know some speakers manufacturers recommend this action to fine tune bass response in difficult rooms. Not sure if this will work for the 4430. I can vary the air resistance by varying how tightly I stuff the port. Thanks

Another sleepless night...:(

JBLnsince1959
05-06-2005, 07:00 AM
Please don't "settle". Be patient and think with your head and not your heart.

the 4430's are really great speakers, but they can be tough to control in the wrong room. Maybe see if you can "test drive" them for a few days before you buy.

I personally raise mine off the floor and sometimes use an audioControl equalizer ( C-131 ) to "get it right" (depends on my mood).

Chas
05-06-2005, 07:43 AM
Ngccglp, maybe you could bi-amp them with some nice subs to inprove the LF definition. Works well for me with 4430's. With a variable crossover, you can experiment with different cut-off frequencies.
Get a good night's sleep and good luck!

ngccglp
05-06-2005, 08:25 AM
think with your head and not your heart
Great advice, maybe better off just sticking with my 4312D.
Will get some sleep tonight. Thanks and good night.

Chas
05-06-2005, 08:43 AM
When subs are used with a 4430, the 2235H can be replaced with a 2234H and the 3135 network can be used instead to gain 2 to 3 dB in efficiency (leave out the second 2234H circuit). Use the 2235H's as your subs if you can't get hold of (or build) a pair of 4645C's..

Great Idea!

JBLnsince1959
05-06-2005, 10:24 AM
maybe better off just sticking with my 4312D.
Will get some sleep tonight. Thanks and good night.

YES!!!!!! :thmbsup: :thmbsup: :thmbsup: