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Tom Loizeaux
05-03-2005, 10:03 AM
If one were designing "ideal" big 2-way monitors for their home, would the following make sense?

Use a 2235H for the low end in a 5.5 cu. ft. tuned cabinet.
Use a K145 as a "helper speaker" , not only to reinforce the low end but to extend the mids a bit.
Use a TAD 4001 or JBL 2331H for the top on a Westlake or JBL 2390 horn.

I think bi-amping these and crossing over around 800Hz should be right.

Obviously using the K145 is the unusual aspect of this, but the 2235 doesn't quite reach the 800Hz by itself. Yes, the cabinet would have to be large, but not 11 cu. ft., as the K145 doesn't need to be flat to 40Hz. If the K145's effiency could be brought down a bit, it might mate with the response of the 2235 quite well.

Just a few thoughts about an unusual design.

Tom

spkrman57
05-03-2005, 10:49 AM
Just curious of course. I would think using matched 15" would bring better results. But, what the hell do I know?????

Ron

JBLnsince1959
05-03-2005, 10:57 AM
I'll use something like the D/E 130 or 2220 and add another crossover around 200, or use the 2235 as a sub ( around 100 to 150)

the 2235 doesn't need help with the low end, that's for sure!

have fun!!

Robh3606
05-03-2005, 11:03 AM
I am a bit confused a 2235 will get you to 800Hz no problem. In the 4430 it crosses at 1K. How will the K145 help out??? Are you talking the 2235 as a sub???

Rob:)

Zilch
05-03-2005, 11:08 AM
The "ideal" big two-way monitor for home would start with 2235H, yes, which would play up to 1kHz without compromise.

If that wasn't big enough, I'd be thinkin' 4435.

OR, offload below 63 Hz to B460.... ;)

spkrman57
05-03-2005, 11:47 AM
2242 on bottom end
E-145 for midbass/midrange
Midrange/tweeter of choice on top

Ron

JBLnsince1959
05-03-2005, 12:14 PM
Yes, I agree, the 2235 goes nicely upto 1000 so a K145 wouldn't be necessary. personally, I can't see in my mind a 2235 and k145 working together in the same range( with only one crossover at 800), they're so different.

Either go with the 2235 in a 2-way as the others have mentioned, or with a 3-way as I and others have mentioned.

If you don't own the speakers yet ,a 2226 would work good in a 2-way also. while the 2235 does go up that far, the range of about 500 to 1000 can sound a little "dark" if not properly done.

good luck

B&KMan
05-03-2005, 12:41 PM
If one were designing "ideal" big 2-way monitors for their home, would the following make sense?

Use a 2235H for the low end in a 5.5 cu. ft. tuned cabinet.
Use a K145 as a "helper speaker" , not only to reinforce the low end but to extend the mids a bit.
Use a TAD 4001 or JBL 2331H for the top on a Westlake or JBL 2390 horn.

I think bi-amping these and crossing over around 800Hz should be right.

Obviously using the K145 is the unusual aspect of this, but the 2235 doesn't quite reach the 800Hz by itself.
Tom


Well, in hystory many speaker is build with 15" in two way speaker.

The 4001 and couple of altec ( ex: I have a flamenco in my house ) is build in 2 way but cut below 40 hz and not really go upper 18k

--Rencently the JBL build a faboulus K2 9800 (and if you exclude ultra-sound sprectral) is consider rougly 2 way ...

The problem is impossible a 15" to build extend in down with out compromise your mid. the motion on infra-sound build create a (tirolien) rattle in voice at upper frecquency in 15 range...
look carrefully the high end product JBL for give a better driver in according of way you choose... the 2235H is commonly associate with 10 mid and cut largely below at 800 hz. The free standing (out of box response) is demonstrate a non flat response in this range. ( I not 100% because I have a 2235 cone in 2231A... But in doubth look JBL ... Each driver for each set-up...

Personnaly I'm consider, in regard of response, the 2235 as low end frequency, not sub and not full range...


I hope this 2 cents commentary is help you...

Jean.

Mr. Widget
05-03-2005, 02:39 PM
I can understand why Tom would suggest the K145... it will have a dynamic punch that the 2235H lacks. Personally I would suggest a Sub1500 and K145 and leave the 2235Hs to other duties.

Widget

Earl K
05-05-2005, 09:28 AM
Hi Tom


If one were designing "ideal" big 2-way monitors for their home, would the following make sense?

Use a 2235H for the low end in a 5.5 cu. ft. tuned cabinet.
Use a K145 as a "helper speaker" , not only to reinforce the low end but to extend the mids a bit.
Use a TAD 4001 or JBL 2331H for the top on a Westlake or JBL 2390 horn.

I think bi-amping these and crossing over around 800Hz should be right.

What with all the speakers you presently have / I don't know why you'd want to travel this path but;

(i) If you want to reduce crossover points / I can see some sense to this approach / especially if biamping.
- though, I've never heard anyone who owns any of the big monitor variants with JBL 10" midrangers actually complain of "too-many" crossover points.

(ii) That having been said ;
- a 4435 type speaker could easily be made with those components ( with each woofer complementing the others strengths & weaknesses ) . I suspect the so-called efficiency differences are a moot point when the very "real" impedance differences are accounted for within the situation of parallel wiring .

- I'd opt for a bigger compresson driver than the stock 2426. Maybe a 2431 ( with large backcap ) could be adapted to the first generation 2344 horn ( meaning a new / custom throat piece must be made ). I'm partial to Altec 288-8K in these roles so thats' the driver I would start with .

(iii) If I could afford the 10cu' plus real-estate / I'd opt for an MTM design with either a circular mouthed horn ( EdgarHorn ) of sorts or an elliptical type ( maybe an 18 Sound from Italy would work ) if the coverage warranted its' use .

<. :cheers:

mikebake
05-05-2005, 09:35 AM
Now you are talking. (other than the difficulty of finding a sub1500)
I can understand why Tom would suggest the K145... it will have a dynamic punch that the 2235H lacks. Personally I would suggest a Sub1500 and K145 and leave the 2235Hs to other duties.

Widget

Mr. Widget
05-05-2005, 10:02 AM
(iii) If I could afford the 10cu' plus real-estate / I'd opt for an MTM design with either a circular mouthed horn ( EdgarHorn ) of sorts or an elliptical type ( maybe an 18 Sound from Italy would work ) if the coverage warranted its' use .


Like this?

Tom Loizeaux
05-05-2005, 01:06 PM
Hi Tom



[i]What with all the speakers you presently have / I don't know why you'd want to travel this path but;...


Earl K,
I'm not considering replacing my 4343s, or any of the others for that matter. This dual 15, 2-way is really just an idea and another possible future speaker project. Hey, I still have several rooms in my house that don't have speakers in them!

Tom

Titanium Dome
05-05-2005, 02:54 PM
You could always get a nice pair of SVA2100 speakers and add a sub on the side. If I'm not mistaken, that was the last consumer MTM-style offering.

Guido
05-05-2005, 03:20 PM
- I'd opt for a bigger compresson driver than the stock 2426. Maybe a 2431 ( with large backcap )

Again the large backcap. Any news where to get them?

Earl K
05-05-2005, 06:59 PM
Like this?

Well - I gotta say, I'm not crazy about the color of that horn / and just what is that funny "bulls-eye" thing down in the lower realms ? Anyhow , you've captured enough of the idea to win a root-beer ( & that's high praise on the prairies ) . :D
- Also, I must say , you're a very quick-drawer . :)

:cheers:

Earl K
05-05-2005, 07:04 PM
,,,, this dual 15, 2-way is really just an idea and another possible future speaker project.


Ahhh okay, just floating balloons are you ?

Well, okay then .


<. :cheers:

Mr. Widget
05-05-2005, 07:06 PM
Well - I gotta say, I'm not crazy about the color of that horn...



It's natural wood.



- Also, I must say , you're a very quick -drawer . :)


I didn't draw or design that. It is a Zingali 215 Monitor from Italy.

Widget

Zilch
05-05-2005, 07:16 PM
Again the large backcap. Any news where to get them?They are N/A. We're on our own, apparently. :banghead:

I don't think the PT waveguides are gonna play well below 1 kHz anyway. You're in a position to determine that with 2426H for us now that you've got them.... :p