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scott fitlin
04-15-2005, 10:53 AM
Sometimes, in life, we must accept that things are no longer as they use to be. Such a time is at hand for me, and Im considering brands, and models of new, factory made and engineered complete full range systems! Unfortunately, parts for some vintage speakers are no longer available, and what you can get is not the same as it was, so, change is inevitable!

JBL! Their custom shop makes a complete full range enclosure called the Dance5, with its triple 14in woofers, horn loaded cone midrange, and HF horn/driver! A fairly large cabinet, I would need six of these if I chose JBL, and what Im asking is anyone who has experience with this line, what do you think? Or do you have other suggestions? ( would be nice to keep it !JBL if I like this box )

Other considertations are EAW,s DC-1 and KF-850,s!

Space is a limiting factor in my room as I cannot exceed 30in cabinet depth, and approximately 47in height!

I have heard JBl,s CMCD,s in other pro reinforcement cabinets, and I do think their cone mid compression drivers have that dynamic snap that so typifies the JBL sound!

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/cspels/Dance5%205-5-03.pdf

louped garouv
04-15-2005, 01:01 PM
JBL has made a stack called the V1 main (V for vinyl the nightclub the were originally built for)... they were mentioned and pictured in the CSI (club systems international) issue that presented all the club world nominations a coupla months ago...

don't know if they are too big though, I'll look up the details for you if you don't have the magazine.....


I have heard them first-hand, very impressive sound system at that place....

***edit*** even better;
here is a link


http://www.clubworldawards.com/nominee05.htm

scott fitlin
04-15-2005, 01:11 PM
That JBL V1 is quite similar to the Avalon DC-1 from EAW! And EAW,s cab is even heavier, weighing in at 401lbs! But its only 26in deep, which I can accomodate!

Ive never seen the V1 or heard it so I dont know much anything about it! It does look interesting!

Have you heard them? If so, what were your impressions?

louped garouv
04-15-2005, 01:14 PM
don't know if I could isolate it to just the V1s, but the system they have is NICE....


I will post around the local boards and try to catch up with one of the residents there and ask him to email his impressions to me, which I will forward to you (if little mike replies)....

scott fitlin
04-15-2005, 03:51 PM
Woulda thought I would see a bit more opinion concerning JBL speakers! Even if they are primarily designed for club use, its still JBL!

Im sure IF I say Im putting in 24 pairs of L100,s that would stir up some comments!

:wtf:

scott fitlin
04-15-2005, 04:17 PM
JBL has made a stack called the V1 main (V for vinyl the nightclub the were originally built for)... they were mentioned and pictured in the CSI (club systems international) issue that presented all the club world nominations a coupla months ago...

don't know if they are too big though, I'll look up the details for you if you don't have the magazine.....


I have heard them first-hand, very impressive sound system at that place....

***edit*** even better;
here is a link


http://www.clubworldawards.com/nominee05.htmJust for the sake of comparison!

check this out;
http://www.eaw.com/products/DC1.html

pelly3s
04-15-2005, 04:39 PM
now what exactly are you using them for and what size room... if it is for a club you really cant beat the DC1, 4 of them with 4 to 6 DSC2's the KF850's have such a long throw that its a little uncalled for in a club.

scott fitlin
04-15-2005, 05:01 PM
My Bumper car room, is 90`L x 50`W, so six DC-1,s should do. I agree long throw isnt the issue in here! As for the DSC2 horn sub, I cant use it because of its 36" cabinets depth! 30in max because of my catwalks around the perimeter of track!

Im also looking at the JBL Dance5, which is also designed for High Output club sound with lots of low frequency punch!

For subwoofer use, I am considering the EAW SB528z, two cabinets per stack location, and a cluster of 4 cabinets on the wall across from the DJ/Operating booth! And high power to drive them properly! Total of 12 double 18in loaded tuned vented boxes!

My 4 JBL center hung clusters of bullet tweeters will remain!

I have heard the KF850,s used at clubs, though, and they were impressive, and even though I agree they are really concert/arena speakers, they really did sound good! Which is why its even a consideration of mine!

:)

pelly3s
04-15-2005, 05:19 PM
6 would kill that.... we have a club with 4 of them and its way too much in there and its a huge club (2500 people). I would say T-Class boxes by community but they are like 3 inches too deep. I do love the Avalons though. yeah do 6 just so its loud :applaud:

scott fitlin
04-15-2005, 05:26 PM
6 would kill that.... we have a club with 4 of them and its way too much in there and its a huge club (2500 people). I would say T-Class boxes by community but they are like 3 inches too deep. I do love the Avalons though. yeah do 6 just so its loud :applaud:Six cabs, in an inverted W stereo pattern, equal coverage around the entire room! This gives me the ability to NOT have to push the system very hard, as you have coverage everywhere! BUT, when you do have those moments you want to PEAK the room, you got the horsepower to deliver without compromise!

:D

pelly3s
04-15-2005, 05:34 PM
i wanna see that when its done lol. right now i'm working on a church with a double 18, a double 15 + 2" and a single 15 + 2" per side. Its a mix of JBL and the new Wharfdale boxes which kick ass for the money. Well I cant say much for the JBL Dance5 boxes only heard them a couple times. They didnt do what the Avalons did

scott fitlin
04-15-2005, 05:47 PM
i wanna see that when its done lol. right now i'm working on a church with a double 18, a double 15 + 2" and a single 15 + 2" per side. Its a mix of JBL and the new Wharfdale boxes which kick ass for the money. Well I cant say much for the JBL Dance5 boxes only heard them a couple times. They didnt do what the Avalons didI hear what you hear! We have a room here in NYC with the JBL Dance5,s and I agree, they didnt.....

pelly3s
04-15-2005, 06:04 PM
good so i'm not the only one... now you know what you have to do lol

scott fitlin
04-16-2005, 12:34 PM
Pelly, what do you think of having custom built vented, front loaded horns, tuned for the JBL 2226H?

This would allow me to keep my JBL2395/2441,s and 2404 tweeters.

Horns could be constructed that would be big enough to fill my room with sound, yet sizable enough to fit my space limitations! I have seen many makers of this type of horn using the JBL 2226H where the depth of the cabinet does not exceed 30in! Most are around 26in depth and 35in height and around 45in width, and that would be fine for me! Lens horns could fit ontop of such boxes as they are ontop of Altec 815,s and 817,s now!

Economically speaking, which is and isnt a consideration, sonics are the first and foremost consideration, this would be easy for me to accomplish! Horns and tweets I already have, all I would need are the enclosures, 3 amps of proper power, and about 10 more 2226,s!

If this could work, it would keep me in the family JBL!

:blink:

Mr. Widget
04-16-2005, 01:12 PM
Hey Scott, how far down do you need the 2226s to go? Would 100Hz be OK, or do you need a lower crossover point?

Widget

scott fitlin
04-16-2005, 01:16 PM
Hey Scott, how far down do you need the 2226s to go? Would 100Hz be OK, or do you need a lower crossover point?

WidgetThis would be the mid bass component of my system, 750hz is the xover point, I let the driver/cabinet go down all the way and roll off naturally! 40hz in room response would be good. I have heard the 2226 before as well as used them at times. they offer very good punch, and bass sounds tight and snappy. Will be a bit different sounding than Altec 15,s in their heyday, but it will work, I think!

Mr. Widget
04-16-2005, 01:26 PM
The reason I asked was the LF cut off determines how large the horn needs to be. If you want a front loaded horn that has response down to 50Hz and rolling off but usable to 40Hz... they would be quite large. I suppose some mutual coupling from a number of units could help a bit, but still you will need horns of some size here.

Widget

bigredplane
04-16-2005, 01:39 PM
Pelly, what do you think of having custom built vented, front loaded horns, tuned for the JBL 2226H?

This would allow me to keep my JBL2395/2441,s and 2404 tweeters.

Horns could be constructed that would be big enough to fill my room with sound, yet sizable enough to fit my space limitations! I have seen many makers of this type of horn using the JBL 2226H where the depth of the cabinet does not exceed 30in! Most are around 26in depth and 35in height and around 45in width, and that would be fine for me! Lens horns could fit ontop of such boxes as they are ontop of Altec 815,s and 817,s now!

Economically speaking, which is and isnt a consideration, sonics are the first and foremost consideration, this would be easy for me to accomplish! Horns and tweets I already have, all I would need are the enclosures, 3 amps of proper power, and about 10 more 2226,s!

If this could work, it would keep me in the family JBL!

:blink:

What about useing JBL 4560 cabinets .They are a front loaded horn cabinet. I have 2 load with 2226's and they kick butt. I have 2345 horns with 2425 horn drivers on it, mounted in the top. The cabinet goes down to about 40Hz. They are 24"x30"x 36" I use them for DJ work.

Scott

Earl K
04-16-2005, 01:47 PM
Hi Scott,

- I think you of all people would appreciate the "quickness" of the 2227h motor. My experience with this motor driving the ME150h cone is very positive .

- If I was in your place I'd want to check out the 2227h for it's 1/2" deep top plate and that 99 gram mms spec . I would custom fit them into your existing Altec horns. The rising response of the 2227 should work well with the amount of air trapped in the horn . Of course, finding 2227s' might be a challenge .

- OTOH, 2226s' are a dime a dozen , so they are a real easy R & D exercise . I'll be surprised if you live with them very long . Very easy to resell :D

- What happened with those italian "18 something" types you had previously bought that you mentioned were Altec reincarnated ?:dont-know


:cheers:

scott fitlin
04-16-2005, 02:12 PM
The italian woofers are very efficient, but dont have the LF response of either Altec or JBL! The mids they have! But it wasnt enough! I tried some 2227,s as well! Same thing, shallow LF response, and I didint like them in the Altec cabinets! Which is why I will either buy brand new factory engineered full range systems, or have properly tuned front loaded horns built by a good manufacturer!

The 2226 has a good, very good LF response, but a mite wanting in the critical lower midband, but it will work!

Earl, if I have front loaded horns made for JBL 2226,s, about the size of my altec 815,s but vented, why wouldnt I like them?

And yes, finding the 2227 x 12 can be a bit of a problem, too! :banghead:

scott fitlin
04-16-2005, 02:15 PM
What about useing JBL 4560 cabinets .They are a front loaded horn cabinet. I have 2 load with 2226's and they kick butt. I have 2345 horns with 2425 horn drivers on it, mounted in the top. The cabinet goes down to about 40Hz. They are 24"x30"x 36" I use them for DJ work.

ScottWe knew those cabinets back in `79! Depth is 36``, I cant exceed 30``!

Would work if I could do!

Earl K
04-16-2005, 02:29 PM
The 2226 has a good, very good LF response, but a mite wanting in the critical lower midband, but it will work!

- Right, as long as you know that's your trade off .


,,,, I will either buy brand new factory engineered full range systems, or have properly tuned front loaded horns built by a good manufacturer!

- That makes sense .

- I really would have thought the 100 gram cone would do it for you . Must have been the low Qts figure. The 2226 does have a higher Qts which I guess works better in your application .

- Another idea ( since you've proven you don't like the 100 gram cone in a 1/2" deep top-plate ) is to try out the B&C 15tbx100. This has a similar motor to a 2227 but with a much heavier cone. It's mms figure is an astounding 163 grams. It's definately a woofer. The deep gap should maintain the quickness you're after. I didn't mention it first since I figured you needed the lighter cone. 163 grams is usually way too heavy / but it is working in a hugely powerful motor . At 96 db it just may not meet the SPL spec.

It's a thought <> :)

bigredplane
04-16-2005, 02:32 PM
We knew those cabinets back in `79! Depth is 36``, I cant exceed 30``!

Would work if I could do

No the height is 36" the depth 24"

Scott




http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/Low_Frequency_Enclosures1.pdfpth

scott fitlin
04-16-2005, 02:51 PM
24" is no problem! Neither is width! Guess I could have those built if I want them!

Earl, I listened to the 2227 and it has a fast, extended mid response, but, shallow LF! Listen to an original Altec 421-8lf, it has the fast response, mid band response, AND the LF response!

B & C has other 15,s as well, the 15PLB100! But I dont know, I would have to hear it first!

Tell you the truth, with the right power, and the tricks I do in my signal processing, I can get the 2226 to snap.

Earl K
04-16-2005, 03:27 PM
Earl, I listened to the 2227 and it has a fast, extended mid response, but, shallow LF! Listen to an original Altec 421-8lf, it has the fast response, mid band response, AND the LF response!

- Too bad we aren't even in the same country ; I have 2 pairs of B&C 15" that I'd loan you if there wasn't the border between us . I bought these for evalution purposes a few years back ( I never did do the tests & now B&C have their lightweight neo line that is a lot more interesting to me ). I believe I have PZs & PWBs . ( no PLs )

- Just to back-track a bit .

- I certainly agree that woofer and horn must be designed as one unit. Simply loading different woofers into your existing horns will be a never ending process /unless someone is actually making a 421-8lf clone . I had thought Iconic was / but I guess not .

- I'm thinking custom designed enclosures are the way to go . Unfortunately , I don't really have any designers to recommend. Perhaps "Tom Servo"? from H.E. over at A.A. The thing that I remember that stuck in my brain was that he stated ( I think ) , the common misconception of needing a light coned driver in a horn if the other parameters were properly addressed ( mostly strong motor ) . (though I may have dreamed this .) :p

- KF 850s are pretty easy to obtain as so many companies have dumped them in favour of line array stuff.
- I actually prefer the powered/processed MSL-4 to the KF-850 .
- Overall it's a much easier box to use from the get-go.
The problem ? the MSL-4 has a pretty narrow coverage .

I'm not being much help now ,,so I'll shutup .

:cheers:

scott fitlin
04-16-2005, 03:53 PM
Yes iconic does have 421 clones.

The 2227,s low Qts is more suited for horn use than the 2226, I agree, but besides the somewhat shallow LF, availabilty is a problem!

As for B & C,s 96db 163gr cone, well, to me thats more of a subwoofer, than a woofer, !

One thing nice about the EAW and JBL designs they are pushing now are the horn loaded cone mid! In my opinion, transition between todays woofers, and cone mids is better than todays woofers and comp driver/horns! Jus my opinion here, everyone has their own thoughts!

Earl K
04-16-2005, 04:18 PM
As for B & C,s 96db 163gr woofer, well, to me thats more of a subwoofer, than a woofer, !

- I agree, one would think that.

- But my experience with the ME150h ( @ 150grams mms ) has demonstrated the fallibilty of that assumption ( apart from the low sensitivity ). Right now these things in less than 3 cu' boxes sound more like mid bass drivers than woofers let alone subwoofers .

- Remember that a similar motor structure ( to the 2227 ) as found in the 1500Sub actually took @ 250 grams MMS to turn itself into a dedicated subwoofer .

- No,,,, the gap topology & BL factor rules the roost when looking at MMS .

- That's why I suspect 163 grams is not too heavy for a bass driver with good midbass response.

- BTW ; this B&C woofer in question ( with a high compliance foam surround ) would be a very serious competitor to the ME150H . Especially priced at around $ 260.00 .

- Maybe JBL has a transducer that right now only appears in the Vertec literature as a part . Mike Caldwell or Oldmics might know this . At the end of the day / I'd prefer that everyone buy JBL / but JBL does need to make available specs for their SOTA transducer lines / because it's not a given that everyone prefers to employ WestCoast carpenters. . :D

:cheers:

scott fitlin
04-16-2005, 05:19 PM
http://www.bcspeakers.com/index.php?sez=1&categoria=1&id_descrizione=2&prodotto=10

This is the model of B & C I was looking at! I would still have to build horns tuned for these drivers, but i dont know how they sound, and i would have to hear them first!

On the JBL tip, one thing I like about the 2226 is its LF punch! Yes, its a bit less than what i consider optimum especially in the midband, but its LF response kicks ass! Not because its the deepest, but the punch is visceral, and taut!

scott fitlin
04-16-2005, 06:54 PM
http://www.bcspeakers.com/index.php?sez=1&categoria=2&id_descrizione=44&prodotto=51&id_descrizione_prod=38

This Neo has possibilty as well!

scott fitlin
04-16-2005, 07:02 PM
My question, while I zip my bulletproof vest up, is, why cant JBL make an array of drivers for a wide array of applications? 18sound, and B & C have a very wide range of drivers, for every kind of application!


:banghead:

mikebake
04-17-2005, 05:57 AM
Pelly, what do you think of having custom built vented, front loaded horns, tuned for the JBL 2226H?

This would allow me to keep my JBL2395/2441,s and 2404 tweeters.

Horns could be constructed that would be big enough to fill my room with sound, yet sizable enough to fit my space limitations! I have seen many makers of this type of horn using the JBL 2226H where the depth of the cabinet does not exceed 30in! Most are around 26in depth and 35in height and around 45in width, and that would be fine for me! Lens horns could fit ontop of such boxes as they are ontop of Altec 815,s and 817,s now!

Economically speaking, which is and isnt a consideration, sonics are the first and foremost consideration, this would be easy for me to accomplish! Horns and tweets I already have, all I would need are the enclosures, 3 amps of proper power, and about 10 more 2226,s!

If this could work, it would keep me in the family JBL!

:blink:

As mentioned, try the 4560BKA. Dimensions work. I have two with 2226H and 2426H on 2370A. The 2226 driver definitely works in that box. See link
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/Low_Frequency_Enclosures1.pdf

Not needing them for VLF is perfect because even with a touch of modest LF EQ they still can't catch up with the midband efficiency, which is high. This box still works, and has punch with a 2226 in it. subwoof may have some in upstate NY.

mikebake
04-17-2005, 06:00 AM
[QUOTE=Earl K]-
- I'm thinking custom designed enclosures are the way to go . Unfortunately , I don't really have any designers to recommend. Perhaps "Tom Servo"? from H.E. over at A.A. The thing that I remember that stuck in my brain was that he stated ( I think ) , the common misconception of needing a light coned driver in a horn if the other parameters were properly addressed ( mostly strong motor ) . (though I may have dreamed this .) :p
/QUOTE]
I am told that Tom Danley is now out on his own again, having left Servodrive. Anyway, I recall that discussion you mentioned and recall it the same way pretty much.

Earl K
04-17-2005, 06:45 AM
Hi Mike

- Thanks for that.

- It's good to know my brain has some memory capacity left.

- Looks like the "Big Defragment" can be put off a while longer. ;)


:cheers:

Earl K
04-17-2005, 07:05 AM
Scott,



Well, I finally checked out the DC-1 specs / nothing special there , IMO .
- ( meaning , something that can't be recreated ) .

- I think , first & foremost , you'll need to decide if you want to dedicate the midrange to a horn loaded 10" driver . I figure you'll need to decide this by actually buying some and matching them to some bass reflex 15" woofers .


- A Horn Loaded 10" could easily be a JBL 2251j driver or a 2012H ( choice based on impedance & overall weight )
- Horn Loaded compression driver ; Keep your 2441 in action and have custom wood 90 x 40 horns made for them.
- 4, 15" woofers in a BR box ( a simple enough design ) I'd check out those B&C 15tbx100 for this role. Anyone with decent software for box simulations can design these up for you .
- 4, 15" woofers in a quasi BB box (a more complicated design ) I'd still check out those B&C 15tbx100 for this role. You'll need a designer who knows his way around this sort of loading .


:cheers:

scott fitlin
04-17-2005, 08:28 AM
The 4560 is the single, I would need two cabs per location! Its the 4550 we were looking at years ago! It is over 30`` deep! But the 4560 isnt, kind of the size of my 816,s! That can work.

scott fitlin
04-17-2005, 08:32 AM
I have always been skeptical of BR designs in here! We have always felt we NEEDED a Horn cabinet for its projectivity, and higher output as compared to BR direct radiating designs. Of course, to be fair, the power we have available today wasnt available then, either, but, still, i think I like the sound of horn loading!

So this poses yet another question! To horn load, or BR?

John
04-17-2005, 01:28 PM
Hey Scott How bout some pics of the room and the cabinets that are in there now???


:useless:



Might get better feedback from every one here if we can see the area we are talking about:D

scott fitlin
04-19-2005, 09:04 PM
Im finally going to go digital, with conviction this time! Its between the BSS FDS-366 T Compact Plus and the DEQX!

I like the flexibility of the BSS, it allows the user to set many parameters!

Gonna do it!

Mr. Widget
04-19-2005, 11:20 PM
DEQX offers all kinds of control and options, but it really is designed to control a stereo pair of speakers. As I recall from your previous posts you have multiple speakers running in stereo.... right? Assuming that is the case you won't be able to get the most out of DEQX. It can't time and phase align multiple high frequency units on the same channel for example. You could use it as a stereo three-way crossover with built in EQ, but you will loose so much of what it can do. It would seem like the wrong application for that device.

Widget

Oldmics
04-20-2005, 05:28 AM
Widget is correct about the DEQX insofar as its application with Scotts system would be incorrect.

The pro counterpart would be the Lake Contour.

Sit down before hearing the price,but its the best!

Oldmics

scott fitlin
04-20-2005, 01:06 PM
Thus far Im leaning towards the BSS-FDS-366 T compact plus!

I have heard it many times, it is good, albeit different from analog processing, but very clean.

I really like and need the total user definability this piece offers, especially the input and output gain adjustments!

The Lake Contour looks serious as well, but I have absolutely no experience whatsoever with it, nor listening experince!

:blah:

pelly3s
04-20-2005, 05:06 PM
Scott sorry I've been out of commission for a couple of days. I would still just go with the Avalons. The BSS rocks although the Lake will kill it its not needed. I still hate to say it but when it comes to the kind of application the Avalons are untouchable by any JBL I've come across. EAW has it together when it comes to building a serious cabinet. The DC-1 is something that needs to be heard before you can say anything about it. I guess maybe I'm bias because I'm from MA but like I said before one of the clubs I work on has 4 and its completely amazing

scott fitlin
04-20-2005, 11:18 PM
I was at lake contours website, going over the lake DSP processor, it is a serious contender! One question, and I couldnt find it on the technical listing of the unit! Does it have user adjustable input gain?

The BSS-366 T has user adjustable input gain, variable from unity to +15db in 0.1db increments, and this is a must have for me!

Does the Lake do the same?

pelly3s
04-21-2005, 04:33 AM
i believe it does, dont hold me to that thought. just give them a call they will answer any questions

Earl K
04-21-2005, 02:52 PM
Hi Scott

- Here are some SIMs that show why it's worth trying the JBL 2226h ( you mentioned ) in the 816 & 817 boxes ( the 815 being all horn loaded is ??? ) .

- I've also ran a sim of the 2227 for the same tuning. I can see why ( as a plug & play choice ) it would disappoint .

- You'll need to use some imagination and overlay the bass boost ( from this tuning ) overtop of the "shelved LF response" ( from 150 hz down ) for both of these horn enclosures.

- The SIMs suggest that mandatory bass EQ ( as applied upstream by you ) could be minimal ( dependant on LF gain of course ) within your rink .

- Sometime in the near future I'll run some SIMs for the B&C stuff / but it'll be a week off since I need to get the parameters into my computer & I'm getting busy with work.

<> :cheers:

scott fitlin
04-21-2005, 04:10 PM
I never saw plotted graphs for various drivers in my cabinets, but I had the 2226,s in my cabs at one time, and the bass was good, somewhat less output above 400hz than the Altec 421,s, but bass was punchy as hell. So for me it was what my ears told me, and I agree, the 2226 would work!

I have also tried TAD 1603,s in my cabs, and they have very similar TS specs to the JBL 2226, and also good bass, good definition, but somewhat less midrange than I am used to! Both woofers exhibit excellent bass punch and definition, this is just what my ears tell me!

A cabinet designer I used to know had constructed some front loaded horns, tuned for the JBL 2227, and I wasnt overly in love with the sound! I had borrowed a pair of 2227,s from him, and tried them in my cabs, also, wasnt overjoyed!

Right now, the easiest thing for me to do, is to put 2226,s or my 1603,s into the cabs and install higher power amps to drive said woofers properly, and EQ!

Im thinking once I have a DSP processor on my full range, it will allow me to custom fine tune ever further, and I might actually get something very worthwhile! Jus my thoughts at this time!

I am considering lab gruppen amplifiers to power the 15,s, I went the other day to a demo at another audio freinds place, and I must say, they are clean sounding! I have not yet truly been a fan of switching PS amps, but these sounded good!

Earl, I truly thank you for taking the time to help me out, and your info will contribute to my making a proper decision and getting it to work!

:applaud:

pelly3s
04-21-2005, 11:23 PM
the Lab Gruppen is great I have an FP6400 and the thing is amazing but I also have 4 Itech 6000 and 2 itech 4000's coming and they still have that classic crown sound but give you the DSP built in.

scott fitlin
04-22-2005, 09:50 AM
the Lab Gruppen is great I have an FP6400 and the thing is amazing but I also have 4 Itech 6000 and 2 itech 4000's coming and they still have that classic crown sound but give you the DSP built in.I have to agree, the I techs kick, and have that sound crowns make, but, the I Tech 4000 is still TOO much power for my 15in range! The 4000 produces 2000wpc@4ohms and thats sub-bass territory for me!

Lab has amps with 630wpc@4ohms and 800wpc@4ohms, respectively!

I actually like the I Tech sound, but I also like the Lab Gruppen sound. Very clean!

Im looking at the lab gruppen fp-2600 to power 15,s!

scott fitlin
04-24-2005, 04:40 PM
At the suggestion of someone else I know, I am also going to try a Crown K2 on 15,s before I make a purchasing decision!

Im curious to see what this amp does!

scott fitlin
06-24-2005, 11:57 PM
In my quest to update and upgrade my system, i have also decided to replace the J Horn subs with custom made, tuned ported double 18,s! The cabinets are being constructed by the Widget Works, tuned for the mighty JBL 2242!

These cabinets are being specially made, constructed with double thick walls, they will be 51`` x 26.5`` x 28`` and tuned to 25hz! I will be getting four of these, and using high power, will create a wave of sub bass to call the whales at the Aquarium 4 blocks from me! :D . Two cabinets stacked in each location, formerly where the J Horns used to be!

Tidal waves comin from the Widgetmaster!

And I stick to the JBL bottom that always done me solid! :applaud: