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View Full Version : 2245H recone or refoam?



R Beardsley
04-06-2005, 10:23 AM
I have a 2245H which is a recone (I think) because of it's accordian type surround. The surround has a split about 2" long around the perimeter, and I tried a temporary fix of gluing it to stop the noise and keep it from ripping. Rick cobb can no longer furnish surrounds for this model, but I see kits for fixing two of them on Ebay. At 50 bucks, it is almost as much as an entire aftermarket recone. Anyone know of a source for a single refoam kit available? I would REALLY like to get a complete JBL recone kit......
Anyone know where I can get one of those?
I think that it would really be great if this group could get an account with JBL to purchase JBL stuff directly - not so much for the price, but the availability. Profits could go to the maintenance of the forum and other projects like Project May..........:blah:

4313B
04-06-2005, 10:33 AM
Rick cobb can no longer furnish surrounds for this modelWhy not? What's his problem man!? :p


Anyone know where I can get one of those?Your favorite Authorized JBL Service Center can help you, and now it appears eBay can as well. :p

R Beardsley
04-06-2005, 10:47 AM
Rick says his supplier is no longer furnishing surrounds for that model.....http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/banghead.gif
too bad, cause I was really happy with what he furnished for my 128H-1's
As to what I said before, I'm pretty picky about workmanship, and would probably do a better job and not worry how much time I am spending on it. I used to work for a company that made cones for Jensen and Lansing in the '60's where I had a lot of experience reconing for the engineering depertment.
If I knew how to go about getting an account, I would do it, and start making custom home theater systems too. :bs:

4313B
04-06-2005, 11:02 AM
As to what I said before, I'm pretty picky about workmanship, and would probably do a better job and not worry how much time I am spending on it.That's a very good point. I will conceed that I've been less than thrilled with some recones I've seen both from JBL proper and their Service Centers. Obviously there are people on this planet who don't see the beauty in a JBL transducer that I see. Why they are reconing transducers is beyond me.

Charlie4350
04-06-2005, 11:03 AM
I'm just happy to take my 2245 to my Authorized Repair Center every ten years or so and have it done right.

R Beardsley
04-06-2005, 12:21 PM
LOL You are easy to please! I was sent to a house about 250 miles away to "take care" of a customer who threw 3 sets of service people out within 10 minutes. At my arrival, he said "God Damnit, I want a good job done!" I told him "I'll tell you what, I'll do my best and chances are that it will be a hell of a lot better than you expected in the first place!" :blah: ....We're friends now.
There is a moral to this somewhere............I want to look at this speaker for the next ten years without being annoyed......damnit, I want a good job done!

Guido
04-06-2005, 12:44 PM
As I wrote in an earlier thread:

If I do a recone I do it for myself.
If somebody else do a recone for me he does it just for the money...:blah: :blah: :blah:
......except is help from a forumite ;) ...........

Charlie4350
04-06-2005, 02:17 PM
[QUOTE=R Beardsley]LOL You are easy to please!

Ya, that's what the wife says. :D

Emphasis on "Done Right"

But, I hear ya - and Giskard too. It would drive me nuts to pay for a recone and get a crappy job. I got LUCKY and met the right guy 20 years ago and we've been friends ever since. He's fussy as me and takes pride in his work. I don't forget about him at Christmas time, put it that way.

chuck

R Beardsley
04-06-2005, 02:35 PM
I Just don't have much luck when I pay for things. Today's "cheap labor" equates to poor quality and service at the same price. Pride in one's work is hard to find these days. :barf:
HAHA I'm bitching a lot today! :blah: :blah: :blah:

John
04-06-2005, 03:21 PM
Are you looking to refoam a cone that had a pleated surround??? Post a picture of the cone if you can???:blink:

R Beardsley
04-06-2005, 05:56 PM
yes......Pleated cone! The diameter of the cone proper is 15 1/4" You have a source? :applaud:

4313B
04-06-2005, 06:01 PM
Ah! That's no 2245H cone.

Here's a picture of Bo's 2245H.

R Beardsley
04-06-2005, 06:08 PM
I'm sure it's an aftermarket recone, but it says 2245H on the back!

pelly3s
04-06-2005, 06:18 PM
its probably a 2242 kit in it.... check the cone for a number.


mmmmm 2245...... it makes me drool thinking about it

R Beardsley
04-06-2005, 06:34 PM
Hell, At my age you drool just thinking!!!!!!! :p

The 2245 has changed my life. There is a six foot sink hole just outside the house, and the plaster is off the ceiling in a 20 foot radius around the woof.

Alex Lancaster
04-06-2005, 07:10 PM
:) It was a 2245, but reconed to 2240; the 2242 coil will not fit a 2245 gap. and the coil former is longer.

pelly3s
04-06-2005, 07:24 PM
oh yeah thats right i forgot what fits in what

Charlie4350
04-06-2005, 08:01 PM
I'm thinking I had this done a year ago, more like 2 and still haven't used it. I recall the original cone having the ribs going deeper, closer to the dustcap. This is the looks of the last time I had it done, JBL kit, 2003. We'll see if I can get up some pics.

pelly3s
04-06-2005, 08:31 PM
charlie just for my own personal information where did you get that done, i see that you are in mass so i was just wondering. i work for a recone center in mass

Charlie4350
04-06-2005, 08:44 PM
Pelly, my good friend Lenny - who's always very busy!

chuck

R Beardsley
04-06-2005, 10:32 PM
I'm going to pull my driver to see the back this weekend. There was a number similar to the 2245 cone number, but slightly diff as I remember. I couldn't find any reference to it on a Google search. WEhoever did the job was a real HACK. Glue was slopped all over and the wires were dancing on the spider. The dust cap was all goobered with gobs of glue, so I bought a new one and redid that. :banghead:

Thanks for all the info guys!!!:applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

Charlie4350
04-06-2005, 11:40 PM
Time for the real deal recone for that 2245! No messin around with this hokey stuff for our JBL's.

R Beardsley
04-07-2005, 08:07 AM
You got that right!!!

This was an Ebay deal..........and it's been annoying me since I figured out the cone wasn't correct.

johnaec
04-07-2005, 08:46 AM
I recall the original cone having the ribs going deeper, closer to the dustcap.You're right. Below are pics of a recone I actually sent in and had done at the factory in the '90's. The ribs do go down deeper, and the back is white.

Mr. Widget
04-07-2005, 10:54 AM
You're right. Below are pics of a recone I actually sent in and had done at the factory in the '90's. The ribs do go down deeper, and the back is white.

I bought some new '98s and by then they were coloring the aquaplas on the back dark gray. I believe there are at least 3 different actual JBL 2245 styles. To my knowledge they all have the ribs like John's pics.

Widget

4313B
04-07-2005, 02:16 PM
You're right. Below are pics of a recone I actually sent in and had done at the factory in the '90's. The ribs do go down deeper, and the back is white.I believe you may have gotten the last of the Hawley cones. Oh for the return to those halcyon days! :crying:

John
04-07-2005, 02:18 PM
My 2245 from the B460 with the white aquaplas has the ribs almost to the tinsel leads on the front of the cone and the other pair of 2245's with grey aquaplas are the same as well.:)

johnaec
04-07-2005, 03:08 PM
I believe you may have gotten the last of the Hawley cones. Oh for the return to those halcyon days! http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/cryingsmiley.gif"Hawley" cones???

John

R Beardsley
04-08-2005, 08:02 AM
Giskard - you know your stuff! Hawley was the company I worked for in the 60's......it was a great place to work, but sadly gone now......:( I think it was about the only place making seamless cones at the time - at least that's what they told me at the time.

opimax
11-20-2006, 09:06 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=013&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=230054246333&rd=1&rd=1



after reading this old thread i am concerned this is not an all jbl 2245h speaker, maybe aftermarket recone. i would really appreciate some expert opinion before i puchase for my new to me b460 picking up this weekend

thanks

mark

Ducatista47
11-20-2006, 11:16 PM
Opimax, maybe this would help, maybe not. Bo's post on the old and new 2245H cone designs.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110605&postcount=61

Clark in Peoria

opimax
11-21-2006, 08:42 AM
Thanks! appears to be the newer recone model on the ebay auction.

I have a velodyne sub (spl1200r), was going to get a 2nd one but will be buying this instead, hopefully replacing the desire to have the 2 smaller ones :)

Mark

LowPhreak
12-03-2006, 08:06 AM
I'm glad this topic came up again, b/c one of my 128H-1's surrounds just disintegrated the other night. :( I was hoping it wouldn't happen at this time of year, but anyway...

With all of the stories about fairly shoddy recones done from JBL's Authorized Service and other places, I was wondering if any of you guys would like to take on a pair of 128' recones? R. Beardsley? Giskard?

Would it help if I said "please"?

Robh3606
12-03-2006, 08:30 AM
Why don't you try to refoam them??? Take a look at this thread and look up Rick.

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=469

Rob:)

opimax
12-03-2006, 10:51 AM
my first although only assisted refoam on 1 of my 128h-1. came with directions that did not need to cut the dust cap, centered using a 30hz tone. no problem even for a beginer, go for it, 25 bucks or so

mark

LowPhreak
12-03-2006, 11:18 AM
Thx for the tips guys. Maybe I'll give it a shot. But who's got the re-foam kits?

How about these on eBay?: http://cgi.ebay.com/FOAM-SURROUND-REPAIR-KIT-FOR-JBL-12-128-L65-2203-L150_W0QQitemZ170056380599QQihZ007QQcategoryZ73372 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item170 056380599#ebayphotohosting

Are they just some generic surrounds, or do I need to get the Genuine Article from JBL?

Robh3606
12-03-2006, 11:35 AM
Measure your cones edge to edge. Tell him the cone size and what woofers they are 128H-1 and you should be fine. His refoam kits are excellent. There are no genuine JBL refoam kits. JBL is recone only. These are black cone woofers??? If they are white they are 128H not -1. The cones can have slightly different diameters that's why you always measure them so they can be matched to the surrounds ID.

mailto:[email protected] ([email protected])

I just got a pair of 2108 surrounds from the same guy in your posted auction. They were a perfect fit. I didn't like how they were shipped in a soft bubble pack. I sent him an email and he said I was the first to suggest boxes and he never had a problem before. Looking at his feedback it's top notch.


Rob:)

LowPhreak
12-03-2006, 01:05 PM
These are black cone woofers??? If they are white they are 128H not -1. The cones can have slightly different diameters that's why you always measure them so they can be matched to the surrounds ID.


They're 128H-1's, black. Standard issue for 4412's I assume. (?)

http://usera.imagecave.com/aztec447/Audio/woofdamage002-copy.jpg

OK, well I'll check out the ones in the auction, and hopefully I won't make a mess of things. :thmbsup:

LowPhreak
12-04-2006, 04:37 AM
Measure your cones edge to edge. Tell him the cone size and what woofers they are 128H-1 and you should be fine. ...The cones can have slightly different diameters that's why you always measure them so they can be matched to the surrounds ID.


Another dumb Q, Rob: are you saying that all 128H-1 cones were not the same diameter and even knowing that these are -1's, I'll still have to measure them?

Now why would JBL go and do that? :banghead: :confused:

Robh3606
12-04-2006, 08:23 AM
Some of the 12" cones are not all the same size. Do they change in the same model number???? Not sure. When ever you go for a refoam kit you measure the cone. A 122A is larger than 128H-1 as an example. If l remember right the 128H white cone is also bigger OD wise. Look at the difference in the gap between the foam mounting pads.

Rob:)

grumpy
12-04-2006, 09:33 AM
Just tell Rick what driver you have. If he has questions for you, he'll ask. I've done
quite a few (entirely successful) refoams including 128H with his kits which are well packed;
a recent 2214H set even survived the USPS postman's boot which crushed the center of
the box. -grumpy

LowPhreak
12-04-2006, 10:22 AM
Here's the offending culprit sans surround. The cone measured approx. 9 3/8", so should be no prob there.

Using a screwdriver, I've scraped all of the foam & 99% of the glue from the basket edge, though it doesn't look so from this pic. I sanded the edge some to remove the glue, but didn't go radical down to the metal.

Is it neccesary to remove all traces of old glue?

http://usera.imagecave.com/aztec447/Audio/128H-1repair001-copy.jpg

...and here's the foam on the back side of the cone's edge. On the right I've already started, but getting that last little bit off of the actual cone surface might not be easy. I think I'll very lightly sand the residue off after the bulk of the foam is removed, to get a good surface to bond to, but not sanding into the Aquaplas. (I hope!)

Getting under those 4 wide spokes might be a bit tricky...

http://usera.imagecave.com/aztec447/Audio/128H-1repair005-copy.jpg

Meanwhile, I get to play the L channel in mono until the new surrounds arrive. :blink:

LowPhreak
12-04-2006, 10:31 AM
Just got this e-mail, in case it may help others in the future:


Art,

JBl made the 128 speakers with two slightly different cones. There is no way to tell which cone you have without measuring. Most of them have the slightly larger cone.

Tom

We'll see which is the "slightly larger" cone.

grumpy
12-04-2006, 11:42 AM
keep goin' dude. gaskets have to come off the frame too (carefully, if you expect to reuse
them). I've used a sharp x-acto knife, then fingers for rolling deteriorated foam off of the back
of the cone, then solvent. Different, wider/stiffer x-acto for the frame, then solvent.

Helps to keep the knife clean. I take off all the glue on the frame and any loose paint. Others
may have comments to complement the picture/story/example version here on the forum. I'd
certainly be happy to learn a new or better technique, but I've been happy with the turnout
thus far.

-grumpy

LowPhreak
12-04-2006, 03:51 PM
FWIW, on the cone diameter:


Art,

That would be the smaller diameter cone. ...

TomMeaning this 9 3/8" unit is the smaller version. I don't know if that's good or of no consequence. (The smaller dia. requires perhaps a wider or taller surround, and hence a bit more Xmax?) He didn't say what the larger diameter's size is.

Here's the rear cone edge finished. Nice n' clean now. It was a tad fiddly getting under the spokes with a long screwdriver, especially the one over the tinsel leads, since the spokes are pretty low to the cone and wide, and nearly parallel to the basket's front plane.

I held the front edge of the cone with fingers directly under where I was working and scraping off the foam, so as not to bend or tear the cone. The screwdriver head was the same width as the flat mounting area, so it worked well.

Then I took some 80 Grit sandpaper and went around the flat area to remove the remnants of the foam. Just very lightly, and it didn't take much to clean it off.


http://usera.imagecave.com/aztec447/Audio/128H-1repair3-copy.jpg


Thanks grumpy, I didn't know the gasket had to come off too! :o: I thought there was room enough to work around it. I'll get to it after dinner...:uhmmmm:

grumpy
12-04-2006, 03:59 PM
You'll see what I mean when you get the surrounds. You need that flat surface to
glue the outside edge of the surround to (it will cover up the screw mounting holes and
you'll have to take care of that later). Then the gaskets can go back on.

Please note that this is simply what I've done for my own personal systems taking into
consideration advice from this forum which includes many folks who know more and have
more experience than I in this area. I have not taken any factory training nor do I do this for
a living. (Boatload of fun and satisfaction though :) ) -grumpy

LowPhreak
12-08-2006, 12:42 PM
Well, I just received the surrounds, but there was no glue included with them! :bs: :bash:

Does anyone know he proper adhesive to use?? :help: Is it something specific, or will any typical carpenter's glue work? Let me know quick, else there'll be no good rawkin' for this old rawka tonight.

:( :( :(

These are wider than I thought they'd be, on the area that attaches to the basket. That's why I figured I wouldn't have to remove the gasket, that maybe the foam was narrow enough to go under the edge of them. Not a chance!

Got one ready to mount, the other driver is still waiting:


http://usera.imagecave.com/aztec447/Audio/128H-1repair4001-copy.jpg

grumpy
12-08-2006, 03:19 PM
...can't help you there. Kits I've used have always included the glue. Perhaps
some kind, properly trained and educated person will take pity on you and
sell you some or point you in the right direction (as doing this is a source of
income for some)...

-grumpy

LowPhreak
12-08-2006, 04:16 PM
...and
sell you some or point you in the right direction (as doing this is a source of
income for some)...

Yeah, well that's the problem...it's always about "income". What's the diff if I buy it from a hardware store or from a "dealer"? I might be able to get it cheaper or eaiser on my own but we can't have that, can we?

I'm not looking for pity, grumpy. I thought this was one of the better places to come to find out about JBL DIY, projects, and such. I didn't know their (or anyone's) surround glue was a state secret. But thanks anyway. :)

I also didn't know the surrounds from this guy were sold separate from the "kit" that includes the glue. I just went to the link he gave me and placed the order, thinking a small bottle of glue came with each surround because some people would want to order a single instead of a pair.

So I ordered 2x 1 surround for $5.99 ea. + $4. shipping + $1.38 NYS tax. Today, Tom e-mailed and said the kits w. glue & instructions are $22.98 + tax. He offered to send the full kit FOC to account for the mix up.

That's fine, but I would have liked to get the speakers online by today, since I took the afternoon off to get them done. Well, tonight's musical plans are shot. If I can't get them up by tomorrow, then my band recording/practice plans for the weekend are also borked, :bomb: since I don't have 11 other pairs of decent speakers laying around like some here do.

LowPhreak
12-08-2006, 06:04 PM
Found out that something called Aleen's Tacky Glue that can be had from craft shops is very similar to the acrylic speaker glue that comes in these kits. Supposed to work well and dries slow enough to give you time to make adjustments.

Maybe with any luck, I'll find this glue and get this done, to be able to lay down some decent tracks tomorrow.

grumpy
12-08-2006, 06:22 PM
Hope it works out. I'd send you extra glue I've saved, but it wouldn't help you tonight.
Looks like you've done a nice prep job.

-grumpy :cheers:

LowPhreak
12-08-2006, 07:04 PM
Either grumpy and I are the only ones home on a Fri. night without a gig, or we're just drinking beer and said "eff it!".

I resemble both remarks. :bouncy:

I'm hoping the 4412's should be up by Sunday, so I have the ignominious duty of informing my bandmates that the session will be then, and to shaddap and get over it, ;) since I'm not only the drummer, but also the "recording engineer"/"equipment guru"/"fix-it dude". Hey, it's nice to have a Friday off!

Thanks grumpy.

R Beardsley
12-10-2006, 11:59 AM
I am reading this kind of late, but I thought I would add something I found helpful, at least to a refoam. I don't like the idea of using any abrasives or scrapers for cleaning old glue off of the frame, and especially off of any cones. I've been using "Goof off" sparingly to gradually remove any glue residue. This works slowly, and if you keep using paper towels to remove the softened adhesive, you will end up with a perfectly clean (unscratched) frame and undamaged cone. It stinks a little, and doesn't seem to affect the cone material. I can only speak for the cones on 128h-1 and 2245. There may be others which may be softened using this method.

Mr. Widget
12-10-2006, 03:14 PM
I've been using "Goof off" sparingly ... It stinks a little...The chemicals in "Goof Off" are particularly harmful... some are also carcinogenic. Ideally you would wear a proper NIOSH approved carbon filter respirator and nitrile gloves. At the very least you should use it outdoors, and definitely wear gloves.


Widget

LowPhreak
12-13-2006, 01:02 PM
Well, I ended up waiting for the glue to come in the mail. I couldn't find the other glue in the stores around here, so the week-end was a bust. We'll have to make it up this coming week-end. :duck:

Here's both last night, drying and doing the low-volume 25Hz waddle, after I'd gone around both cones twice, adjusting and finger-pressing the edges:

http://usera.imagecave.com/aztec447/Audio/128H-1repair5-copy.jpg

Over the next few hours, I checked them several times by finger-pressing some more to make sure Murphy's Law didn't pay a visit. There were some iffy moments when it looked like I couldn't get it right and the surround roll was going to stay in irregular shapes, etc., but apparently running the test tone straightened it all out. (?)

~~~~~

Beardsley -

It wasn't too difficult getting the foam off with the flat screwdriver I used. The back side (Aquaplas) of the cones seemed tough enough to handle the "abuse" of the scraping without abraiding it.

I couldn't have removed the foam from the cone or basket by "rolling" finger pressure because 1) it hadn't deteriorated to that point yet, and 2) because the basket spokes were really too wide and close to the cone to allow good access. It was a bit of a struggle to get under the spokes even with the long screwdriver I used.

In fact, the spoke with the tinsel leads was the hardest area to get to, especially during the gluing and pressing stages. I didn't take pix of that because believe me, I was too aggravated to bother!

~~~~~

This morning, I tested them with some test tones, then relatively light Bach organ music to get them warmed up, then Donald Fagen's "Kamakiriad" and Gov't Mule's "Deepest End", with output increasing as the testing progressed. Nothing broke loose during all of that, thank doG, and no VC buzz or pop. :)

Finally, I gave them a dose of Sub Zone's "Ultimate Bass, Vol. 1" at max safe input. I must say, a nice breeze started blowing through the room then. :bouncy: All that's left to do is attach the outer gaskets, which I'll get to tomorrow.

Can't wait until I can get my 4645C and X-O it @ 50Hz as Giskard once suggested. That might also help to ameliorate the large 40-50 hump the 4412's have in this room.

This was not the easiest small project I've ever done but it wasn't too bad, and I did learn a few things along the way - like how to better apply the glue to the cone edges next time. At least they're done, they perform well, and I saved some X-mas ducats.

Thanks for the help guys: Robh3606 for the link to boputnam's thread and encouragement, boputnam for the pix and commentary, and grumpy.

:beach:

edgewound
12-13-2006, 07:05 PM
The end result.
Sorry I haven't been posting lately...If you care, anyway...:p
Been playing a tough game of catch-up...I'm losing.

Anyway...here's an example.

dblaxter
12-13-2006, 08:34 PM
hi out there
everybody talks so highly of r.cobb, so far i have dealt with him 3 times first time all was well, second time i got the surrounds for le10h-1 and they clearly had the split surrounds where it seemed you could see a line where the hump was seamed in the center ,2nd set same order no seam, lastly , i bought 7 kits and guess what no glue , asked if it should have come with them or do i need to pay more ,let me know how much as i need it ,please let me know ,and got NO REPLY AT ALL , so now i see someone else has got the no glue treatment ,it would be nice if it was stated , glue is extra , do you need glue ,etc.
i thought i would put that out there as there are a great number of other good suppliers who i have dealt with that all was well every time ,and the cost was competitive ,also there was no , no glue suprise,
excuse my venting but i feel that what you are buying should be clearly stated, as you know in the surround game i think glue is what keeps it together .
as always this is a great forum ,i am honored to be a member
thank you michael

Oldmics
12-13-2006, 09:36 PM
Just did my first new style JBL today a 2262.

The kits for these new drivers (2262,2265,2268) do NOT come with adhesive.

Did JBL let me know-Sure,once I opened the box and found the little instruction letter inside saying go to the website and look at there bulletin regarding the reconing of these new drivers.

Only put me back 3 days getting the correct adhesive.

I was not happy.Now a new set of price calculations have to be added for the adhesive not being supplied with the kit.

Giskard,Edge,Were you aware of this?

Oldmics

boputnam
12-13-2006, 09:58 PM
Sorry I haven't been posting lately...If you care, anyway...:pNice work, edge. Look like 128H's to me - my favorite 12" JBL woof... :yes:

And yea, I've been wondering where you be - hoping you're busy!

edgewound
12-14-2006, 07:03 PM
Just did my first new style JBL today a 2262.

The kits for these new drivers (2262,2265,2268) do NOT come with adhesive.

Did JBL let me know-Sure,once I opened the box and found the little instruction letter inside saying go to the website and look at there bulletin regarding the reconing of these new drivers.

Only put me back 3 days getting the correct adhesive.

I was not happy.Now a new set of price calculations have to be added for the adhesive not being supplied with the kit.

Giskard,Edge,Were you aware of this?

Oldmics

Yep...need to use elastomer modified cyanoacrilate....and it ain't cheap.

I recently reconed a totally fried 2268 18"....they weigh almost nothing. Feels kinda weird to work on a heavy duty speaker that is so light.

I wish they still had 4" voice coils....but what do I know?

LowPhreak
12-14-2006, 09:13 PM
Yep...need to use elastomer modified cyanoacrilate....and it ain't cheap.


Does JBL sell it separately, or have to buy it from a specialty place?

Oldmics
12-14-2006, 09:59 PM
Special item.

A Locktite product.

JBL won"t vend it due to hazmat shipping restrictions.

Hey Edge,By the way.Nice Work:yes: :yes: :yes:

LowPhreak
12-14-2006, 10:13 PM
Special item.

A Locktite product.

JBL won"t vend it due to hazmat shipping restrictions.



Ah HA! The thick plottens. I guess that answers that.

Thanks for the info. :) Too bad I didn't know that a week ago.