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Brian DK
07-25-2003, 01:17 PM
I ovn a set 250ti jubilee. I am very happy with my speaker.
But I find the low end a bit to veek. So I was thinking of bying the one inch. bigger woffer from the K2.
How will the woffer play in my 250ti.
Hope someone can assist.

GordonW
07-25-2003, 03:56 PM
I'm with Giskard here... what amp, preamp, and source unit are you using? There really is no reason, why the bottom end on ANY 250TI variant should be weak, unless someone has reconed the woofer wrong or something like that...

Regards,
Gordon.

Mr. Widget
07-25-2003, 04:30 PM
"But I find the low end a bit to veek. "

Do you mean the tonal quality is bass shy or do you mean the woofer is overloaded and runs out of steam at high SPLs?

Tonally the 250 series systems have a very deep extended bass response. Certainly more than that of the K2s. At extreme SPLs or with sources that contain very, very deep bass you may need more cone area or more watts or both.

Brian DK
07-26-2003, 04:08 PM
Iam using 2 Aragon 4004mk2 amps. And Aragon 18k pre amp.
My problem is, when i play at high volume, the woffer seems to by out of control(flutter)..??

GordonW
07-26-2003, 11:44 PM
Wow, I'm seriously confused. I personally can vouch for the bass output and control of an Aragon 4004 (I work for a dealer, and have extensively listened to 4004s, 8008s, Acurus DIA150s, A250s and A200s, etc)! And the 18k is no slouch either!

What kind, length and guage of speaker cable are you using, by chance? Wonder if we're having a cable interaction problem here maybe?

Regards,
Gordon.

GordonW
07-26-2003, 11:45 PM
BTW, are you using a turntable? And if so, what kind, with what cartridge and what stand is it on?

Regards,
Gordon.

Brian DK
07-27-2003, 04:24 AM
I only Use CD.
And my problem only arise,when I play hard Tecno musik like
(Hypertraxx The Darkside). I have no problem when i play musik
like (Dire Straits or Tracy Chapman)
I know that it is two very different kinds of musik, and the woffer
works a lot harder with musik like that. But the woffer should be tight, and not (kind of out of control)...?
Or am I wrong.??

Earl K
07-27-2003, 07:19 AM
Hi Brian
I'd consider installing a 18 db per octave, 25hz high-pass ( sub-sonic filter ). Based on what is already posted here , it sounds like your le14s are simply unloading because of too much very low frequency info. "Techno" or "Trance" music usually has a huge amount of content ( sometimes useless info ) down there. The advent of computer based recording systems has also made it easy to "normalize" or digitally compress the VLF information to maximize the signal level for the storage capacity of the disks ( Hard-Drives ) . A visual comparison of a modern LF waveform from computer composed/archived music versus something from 2 decades ago , is very revealing . Usually upon viewing , people start understanding why they may need to buy a subwoofer or at least high-pass the system they are using. Perhaps you should be looking for a pair of 2245h eighteen inchers driven by a high wattage amplifier with a very stiff ( big ) power-supply, .

regards <> Earl K

sa660
07-28-2003, 04:09 AM
I would consider the 18 db crossover high pass at 25Hz - 18hz
You may want to adjust the frequency.

You room may add distorsion to the VLF and your CD as mentioned above may be very bad. (Not the CD player)
My brother has a pair of 4435 that will have the same problem. This is more due the source (cd) rather than the speakers.
I would guess that getting a pair of 2245 will create the same problem and make it even bigger with bad CD.
The very low frequencies are very hard to reproduce and add no noise they only stressssss your bass driver and make you feel the vibration.

Good luck.

Brian DK
07-28-2003, 12:15 PM
Thanks for all the replies.
I will try to instal a high pass filter.
I think thats the right solution.

Regards Brian.

Mr. Widget
07-28-2003, 12:39 PM
I see three possible solutions.

1) Change your musical taste, not really recommended... you like what you like.

2) Add a massive subwoofer and filter the 250tis, this is expensive, will visually impact your room, and if the sub crossover is not of exceptional quality will actually degrade the sound quality of your sound system.

3) Go with the filter. You may want to make the filter defeatable so that for music that is not rich with sub 30Hz info (most music) you don't have to pass all of your music through a potentially smearing filter.

jpb_dk
11-05-2005, 05:27 AM
Hi Brian,

Could it be a matter of standing waves in your room ? It sounds like Your gear is ok.

Maby it sounds silly to JBL-fans, but its a fact that JBL produce powerfull woofers, and many people have a tendency to fill the room with standing waves in their search for the ultimate acoustic massage. Sound technicians with access to all the powerfull equipement will probably agree.

Measuring while playing proof that. A easy way to try it out without fancy measuring equipement, is simply to press "Pause" when you "knock it off" and take notis of what You hear the first seconds after. If you count seconds its maby a problem of "plasterboard" vs. "Solid stonewalls", and you do have a problem with "standing waves" in the room.
There are a physical limit for how much energy a given room can consume before it "puke". 250 is a powerfull speaker, Aragon is a powerfull amp, Tecno is bass-powerfull music.

Tree soloutions, 1. a new house with solid stonewalls. 2 don't play so loud or 3. move around with our 250's to find a better interplay between the speaker-box and the room-box.

More and more high-end Speaker manufactors start to look that direction of integrated room-correctio/compensation for standing waves, phase problems ect. For eksample Danish Tact, Gryphon Audio's new speaker, deqx, http://www.av123.com/products_category.php?section=processors.

I have designed "dsp-speakers" for less than $500 that sounds so good that it make one sweat in the pants. I will absolutely include DSP filtering and corrections in my 250-copy project because of the outstanding advantages i saw in the $500 speakers i made.

About cables for Your Woofer try some 6mm single-core (installatio-wire) It cost nothing and fix possible woofer-cable problems very often.

I would say that the Aragon should be ok. It can run a Infinity Kappa 9 (the old Kappa that can kill almost any amp.
You should also try out all the other suggestions made here. Moving around with the boxes if "free" so give it a try in the weekend before You go shopping other equipememt.

Regards, Jens

Brian DK
11-05-2005, 07:26 AM
Hi jens.

I have solved the problem by moveing my 250jubilee further away from the corner.:o:

But since then, I have taking a step further. I have bought the K2 S9800, and I have placed an order on the new Pass labs monobloks x600,5. They vil arive in next week.
The opgrade to the K2 is the best improvement i have ever made.
'In my opinion' it's one of the best Speakers ever made.
now I just can't wait until my new Pass arive.:bouncy: :bouncy:

Titanium Dome
11-05-2005, 08:45 AM
That's quite an upgrade. Congratulations. :)

John
11-05-2005, 01:39 PM
I have seen that woofer condition before and Don our fearless leader had a theory for it but you better ask him what it was, it was quite complex but had something to do with Flux Modulation or something like that:blink:

jpb_dk
11-06-2005, 08:14 AM
Hi Brian,

Good to hear that it worked out. I only know the old "Pass" from when i had the 250's in wood, and a Threshold S/300 for the woofer and a SA/3 for the top. I was goooooooooood ..
Are You selling your 250's drop me a pm please. I could be interested for getting them here next time i got goods from dk to here where i live now.
Regards
Jens