L212, L250, 250Ti, XPL250, Performance Series

[Titanium Dome]

Once again trolling the depths of the forum's past, I came upon interesting bits here and there.

In the many threads that talked about the L212, L250, 250Ti, and, to a lesser degree, the Performance Series, I stumbled on this single image, placed by Giskard courtesy of JBL.


Now this seems to be the "missing link" between the 250Ti and the Performance Series stacked tower (PT800 + PS1400). The baffle design is highly predictive. Also, its bi-amping character is carried a step further in the Performance Series with the PS1400 having its own 400W amp, and the docked PT800 requiring a separate amp, so it's bi-amped by default.

Now here'a an interesting question: I wonder if early PT800 prototypes came in left and right configurations?

[Titanium Dome]

A pair of XPL250's is one of my projects.

I have all the components but am undecided on the physical enclosures.

I couldn't make out from your (or GT's) diagram what the midrange driver was. For those of us who are slow or ignorant (or both), can you list them, please? :bouncy:


My biggest problem is I simply have too much JBL stuff around and it may be time to start letting some of it go so I can make room for the new projects. Maybe I should just dump it all and pick up a 5.2 Performance Series. :hmm:

My Mom's building a new house on a golf course in the Waterville/Whitehouse/Monclova, OH area. It's got a big unfinished basement. I'll be out there in the spring for a week or so. Maybe you could dump it all there? (Rubs hands devilishly....)


Oh wait! 5.2 is dead right? It's something really stoopid like 6.2 or 7.2 now isn't it? :rotfl:

Mine's more like 7.3, and I keep reading that Harman white paper on subs and thinking I need one more PS1400.

[Alex Lancaster]

:p Too many decisions; Giskard, please put Us all in Nembutal or similar, and tell Us what speakers we really need.

[Zilch]

If I knew what loudspeakers we really needed Alex I'd have a pair... :p

It appears we ALL do this via mass accumulation, not a process of elimination.... :p

[Titanium Dome]

So, if you took that XPL250 enclosure and separated the woofer chamber from the rest, and you resized the lower enclosure to eliminate wasted space (on the bottom, I assume), then you made them stackable for music or separable for HT, you might get a right side that looked like this:

[Zilch]

What's the "Up/Down" switch on XPL160A supposed to do?

[Titanium Dome]

If your marketing department thought it'd be easier to sell if you took a Microsoftian approach ("Where do you want your music today?") and reduced the confusion over which is left and which is right or what goes where; or, if your efficiency/productivity guys said, hey, it'd be a lot easier if we didn't have to make three different kinds (a PT800L, PT800R, and PT800S), and making one enclosure that could work in multiple locations would reduce waste and building extra jigs, and switchover time, and three items in inventory, blah, blah, blah; or, if your image consultants pulled a focus group or two out of their a$$ and said if you make speakers that look and feel good then people will assume they sound good, and boy wouldn't you hate to spend all that time making a nearly perfect speaker but nobody'd buy it because it didn't sparkle in just the right way or it didn't make you feel like you had to touch it; well then, maybe you'd still get a frickin' fine speaker that looked sort of like this:

[mikebake]

If your marketing department thought it'd be easier to sell if you took a Microsoftian approach ("Where do you want your music today?") and reduced the confusion over which is left and which is right or what goes where; or, if your efficiency/productivity guys said, hey, it'd be a lot easier if we didn't have to make three different kinds (a PT800L, PT800R, and PT800S), and making one enclosure that could work in multiple locations would reduce waste and building extra jigs, and switchover time, and three items in inventory, blah, blah, blah; or, if your image consultants pulled a focus group or two out of their a$$ and said if you make speakers that look and feel good then people will assume they sound good, and boy wouldn't you hate to spend all that time making a nearly perfect speaker but nobody'd buy it because it didn't sparkle in just the right way or it didn't make you feel like you had to touch it; well then, maybe you'd still get a frickin' fine speaker that looked sort of like this:

If you run across anymore PT800's and you have enough already, let me know! I'm in the market.........thanks
MBB

[jblnut]

If you run across anymore PT800's and you have enough already, let me know! I'm in the market.........thanks
MBB



There's a single PC600 matching center for this series on ebay right now- might as well start your 7.3 system with this...


jblnut

[jblnut]

If your marketing department thought it'd be easier to sell if you took a Microsoftian approach ("Where do you want your music today?") and reduced the confusion over which is left and which is right or what goes where; or, if your efficiency/productivity guys said, hey, it'd be a lot easier if we didn't have to make three different kinds (a PT800L, PT800R, and PT800S), and making one enclosure that could work in multiple locations would reduce waste and building extra jigs, and switchover time, and three items in inventory, blah, blah, blah; or, if your image consultants pulled a focus group or two out of their a$$ and said if you make speakers that look and feel good then people will assume they sound good, and boy wouldn't you hate to spend all that time making a nearly perfect speaker but nobody'd buy it because it didn't sparkle in just the right way or it didn't make you feel like you had to touch it; well then, maybe you'd still get a frickin' fine speaker that looked sort of like this:


Funny....this seems so familiar....

I remember now...the early 90's and I'd just found out about the XPL series which was another in the "best kept JBL secrets" series. All that phenomenal talent in engineering and somehow I can't find a friggin dealer within 300 miles. And that was GOOD compared to the Performance Series. JBL needs to wake the f*%k up and (even if it's on their own dime) put some of these into the big box stores in a "demo room" environment. Why - because someone will always walk in and say "what's the best you have". Imagine a store like Best Buy selling $8k plasma TV's and the best JBL speaker you can buy there is a Northridge series for a couple a hundred bucks. WTF ???
Get them out there in front of people and the sound and looks will move them just fine.

Am I the only one who thinks like this ? I was lucky and actually got to hear a well setup 5.1 Performance Series/Synthesys setup and let me tell you - Mr Titanium Dome here is one lucky dude.

C'mon JBL - get these into STORES - you know, those big buildings where people go to spend money ? Get some 0 interest, 24 month financing behind it too and they WILL sell.

jblnut


If there are sales/marketing openings at Harman I'm available. They need help.... :D

[mikebake]

Am I the only one who thinks like this ?
Most assuredly not.

[evans224]

I believe Giskard should hold a yard sale-I for one would like to see what's collecting dust in the attic.....

[Titanium Dome]

Imagine a store like Best Buy selling $8k plasma TV's and the best JBL speaker you can buy there is a Northridge series for a couple a hundred bucks. WTF ???
Get them out there in front of people and the sound and looks will move them just fine.

You might know that BB acquired the higher end Magnolia Stores. Here in SoCal, Best Buy is moving selected Magnolia merchandise into the listening rooms. However, don't look for any higher end JBL stuff.

I actually took a PT800 into a Magnolia in Torrance, CA to do a direct comparison with Sonus Faber and Martin Logan speakers. After convincing the associate to cross over all the speakers to a sub @ 80HZ, he freaked out at the sound. When he learned they were only $1500 each, you could see the adding machine whirring in his head. :idea: He figured since they were a part of Best Buy maybe they could get some.

I checked back a week later. "Sorry. No. We're not authorized to carry them." I was bummed, 'cuz I needed two more, but later I picked them up on eBay for $463 for the pair.


Am I the only one who thinks like this ? I was lucky and actually got to hear a well setup 5.1 Performance Series/Synthesys setup and let me tell you - Mr Titanium Dome here is one lucky dude.

:banana: Yes, I am a lucky guy, but as you note, persistence was required. JBL wasn't trying to sell them.

These are terrific speakers, but they're not your dad's JBLs. (Oh crap, most of us ARE the dad! :spchless: ) There's the LE14H-3, which continues a long, venerable driver tradition, and of course, JBL and Titanium tweeters go back a long way, but those other inverted dome Titanium drivers are something special. You see the 4" pistonic drive unit also in the TiK Series and in several top Revel lines, but to have it in a speaker this accessible (if you actually could find it) is a real deal. If you can find the 6" or 8" drivers anywhere else (other than the Synthesis clones), I haven't found it. Then you've got the baffles that are narrower than the enclosures and the elimination of the longitudinal right angles and... :blah:


If there are sales/marketing openings at Harman I'm available. They need help.... :D

I think the department's closed. The front office refers you to Revel, but their marketing/sales department is on unpaid leave, and the Infinity folks are laid off until further notice.

However, a dedicated searcher can buy them, sight unseen, sound unheard, at www.harmanaudio.com under the "specials/JBL home" menu. Be sure to scroll all the way down to the bottom for savings of about 33%. :blink: Now that's a marketing plan! :screwy:

[Don McRitchie]

Just curious, but do you have any idea why there would be so many remanufactured units that they would be selling them online? So few of them seemed to make it out of the factory and onto show room floors that I wonder what the source of the returns would be. The only other factor I can think of is that they sat so long in a non environmentally controlled warehouse that they had to be refurbished. I know that this happened with 4344MKII's in Japan and that quite a number were sent back to JBL for refinishing.

[Titanium Dome]

Great question and certainly on my mind as well. There's a constant supply on that site, though the offerings vary from time to time. Still, where do they come from?

I'm certain I'm not the only one in the US who has these things. Mine were perfect right out of the box, and they're packed very, very well.

Maybe they're returns from dealers who don't expend any energy to sell them? Maybe they're from warehouse damaged boxes: rips, crushed corners, water stains? Maybe it's JBL's unofficial 1/3 off sale?

If only we knew somebody who knew somebody who was close to this speaker at JBL... :dont-know:

[mikebake]

Umm, yeah; I keep looking at these but would like to find some "used" ones for less. Not that they aren't worth it, perhaps, but at the ebay prices, they become an even better value.
http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=PT800BLK-Z

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=PT800BE-Z

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=PT800CH-Z

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=PC600CH-Z

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=PC600BLK-Z

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=PC600BE-Z

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=PS1400CH-Z

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=PS1400BLK-Z

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=PS1400BE-Z

Usually the Z in any model number means remanufactured.

[Alex Lancaster]

:) I bought 4 of their 600II-Z cheap home theaters, they work fine, I really watched for marks, specially on screw heads -None-, one reason could be overstock, and not wanting to foul up their relation with dealers, but?

[Titanium Dome]

:) I bought 4 of their 600II-Z cheap home theaters,

I just have to say, "Wow!" :jawdrop:

Even though it takes us :offtopic: what did you do with four of those? Gifts? Are they decent garage or kid's room units? Do they really have Logic7 in a useful iteration? I think it's the cheapest thing that's got L7.

[MJC]

However, a dedicated searcher can buy them, sight unseen, sound unheard, at www.harmanaudio.com (http://www.harmanaudio.com/) under the "specials/JBL home" menu. Be sure to scroll all the way down to the bottom for savings of about 33%. http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/blink.gif Now that's a marketing plan! http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/screwy.gif

I've mentioned this before, and yes it would be sound unheard. BUT, by the reviews I've read and your input on your set of PS, I would buy the PS @ $1050 /per speaker, if I didn't already have a 7 channel L212 system with a pair of sub1500s. But in the future, who knows.
My son, who is about to get out of the Navy, would love to inherit my L212s, while I'm still alive.

[Alex Lancaster]

:) Ti dome: kept one, my brother got one, etc etc., They sound and look pretty good with a Plasma, lots of Psychoacoustics, I´m sure, but they do the job with what I can rent from Blockb.

[jblnut]

There's a single PC600 matching center for this series on ebay right now- might as well start your 7.3 system with this...


jblnut


...and the winner is...mikebake !

6.3 more to go :applaud:

jblnut

[mikebake]

...and the winner is...mikebake !

6.3 more to go :applaud:

jblnut

Somehow I never feel like a winner on ebay............something like the "last fool standing".....

Anyway, remans on Harman are 1000.00, list 1500, so I figure 500 is not so bad. By the time I would secure individual drivers, cabinet, network, etc. $500 looks paltry................

:rolleyes:

[Titanium Dome]

Somehow I never feel like a winner on ebay............something like the "last fool standing".....

Anyway, remans on Harman are 1000.00, list 1500, so I figure 500 is not so bad. By the time I would secure individual drivers, cabinet, network, etc. $500 looks paltry................

:rolleyes:

Congrats! Make sure they pack it well if they don't have the original box. Putting a heavy, odd shaped speaker like that into a box filled with peanuts will destroy it. Then even at $500 you'll feel cheated.

Be adamant, even if you have to pay a little more in packing costs.

Good luck! :)

[Titanium Dome]

Another thread (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=9530) got me thinking about this again, but with a fresh perspective.

I was trying to get a handle on something in the other thread and ended up with this:

[Titanium Dome]

There are a couple of holes in the spreadsheet, but, basically, I'm looking at the XPL200 and the L7 in the context of the great 4-way consumer lineage.

The XPL200 seems the farthest out in terms of driver selection and low end.

Even though the L7 had a 12" instead of 14", otherwise it seems more in line with the other 4-ways, even mimicing the lower frequency response and more conventional driver selection.

[Titanium Dome]

Thinking along these lines, I've determined that it'd be possible to put an LE14H-x in the L7 cabinet with virtually no physical modification. Given the crossover point for the LE120H-1 at 180Hz and the LE14H-x's crossover points of 130Hz to 400Hz in the various enclosures, I wonder if the L7 crossover would be useable, with a minor modification, plus maybe some port modification and different internal damping material.

On to the XPL200, might the LE120H-1 be an improvement there, again with some slight mods?