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View Full Version : Power handeling capability of L-100's



bob newton
02-03-2005, 04:04 PM
Does anyone have a guess of the power limits of the L-100's and the 4311H's without causing a meltdown or a burnout? What are they really good for? Can they handel 150 watts full crank?

4313B
02-03-2005, 04:21 PM
http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-speakers/1973-4311.htm

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-speakers/1978-4311.htm

bob newton
02-03-2005, 04:28 PM
:blink: So what does that mean? I cannot safely exceed the rated specs? Does it mean that if I have a 150 watt per channel amp, I should not pass the rated watt specs for the speakers? :bs: BTW, can I barrow one of those ladies?

bob newton
02-03-2005, 04:52 PM
Let me be more specific, I use a Sansui 9090, rated at about 110 watts per chan but measured at up to about 150 per ch. Am I suppose to keep the volumn down to say less than half?:crying: :eek: :wtf:

4313B
02-03-2005, 04:53 PM
Damn it! You made me actually go read those brochures!

It means they handle 75 watts continuous program power. Hook any amp you want up to them. Don't exceed 75 watts continuous program power. Don't clip smaller amps either. A 50 watt amp cranked to "10" is NOT program power, it's garbage. A 150 watt amp on a pair of L100's is fine. I used a 150W Citation 16 with a pair of L100's and wasn't shy about lighting up the top lights fairly often. :)
BTW, can I barrow one of those ladies?That's up to them. I ain't runnin' no muthaf@#&^%' pimpin' service here! ;)

4313B
02-03-2005, 04:58 PM
Let me be more specific, I use a Sansui 9090, rated at about 110 watts per chan but measured at up to about 150 per ch. Am I suppose to keep the volumn down to say less than half?:crying: :eek: :wtf:Turn it up until you hear a ripping noise and then back it off a tad. Seriously, I don't recall ever going more than half way up on any volume control I ever had. Now... Other people's systems I have no problem with turning the volume control all the way up. :rotfl:

bob newton
02-03-2005, 05:01 PM
LMAO!! OK,so if I get this right, I can go to 75 watts and its ok if the bass makes the needles jump up to say 100 or more? As long as it is not constant? :applaud:

4313B
02-03-2005, 05:02 PM
You got it! :band:

bob newton
02-03-2005, 05:03 PM
I live on the water and sometimes we have some HOT party's here! So the speakers go outside and then we need all the power that we can get!

bob newton
02-03-2005, 05:06 PM
I think the 4311H is rated for less though. Maybe 45 watts or so (early 80's)

4313B
02-03-2005, 05:10 PM
I don't know a 4311H. The 4311B is rated 40 watts continuous sine wave, so 80 watts continuous program power. That's what's in those catalogs.

bob newton
02-03-2005, 05:15 PM
!@#$%^&*() Grrrr, You made me go and check again! The 4311H uses ceramic magnets. Whats a 4311B? :duel: lol

4313B
02-03-2005, 05:16 PM
Bloody hell! Now you made me dig this out!
:duel: 4311B is the ferrite (ceramic) version.

4313B
02-03-2005, 05:20 PM
Tech Manual

bob newton
02-03-2005, 05:21 PM
:applaud: Ohhhh! so thats a 4311B !! Looks exactly like my 4311 H's

Ut oh so sorry, You are correct, I am wrong ! I have 4311 B's . I gotta go get new glasses

4313B
02-03-2005, 05:21 PM
...

4313B
02-03-2005, 05:22 PM
http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/applaud.gif Ohhhh! so thats a 4311B !! Looks exactly like my 4311 H'sK http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/tongue.gif

bob newton
02-03-2005, 05:25 PM
Most interesting info you sent!! Many thanks for enlightening me. Respectfully

Mr. Widget
02-03-2005, 05:32 PM
With a 110 watt receiver or integrated amp, you stand a much greater chance of damaging the damn thing by not having a big enough amp. Outdoors you are very likely to crank the amp past clipping and then there will be hell to pay. You will most likely blow a tweeter. If you try to compensate for lack of bass (which there most certainly will be outside) you will clip the amp sooner.

Most all vintage receivers and integrateds reach full power with a standard level source (tuner, CD, tape) at the 12:00 to the 1:00 position. The rest of the preamp gain is there for sources with lower than standard input voltages.

Widget

4313B
02-03-2005, 05:42 PM
Most all vintage receivers and integrateds reach full power with a standard level source (tuner, CD, tape) at the 12:00 to the 1:00 position.Yeah. ;)

bob newton
02-03-2005, 05:43 PM
Oh WOW, So thats why I been blowing the tweets and mids in the -100's? Never had a prob with the woofers though. YIKES , I feel so silly, I need to be tought how play the damm things too? You guys are correct, as usuall! I see da light now!:spchless: :cheers:

Robh3606
02-03-2005, 05:46 PM
I used to run L100's with a Dynaco ST-400. I could get my fillings rattling before I could damage them. As long as you don't do anything stupid like the loundness switch on, the treble turned up and the volume at 11 they should be fine.


Rob:)

bob newton
02-03-2005, 05:52 PM
Whats an ST-400 put out? No loudness switch on but, full treble and full bass and full volumn and my hearing aid up full!! Cant help it the JBL's sound so good! Won't do that no more.:nutz:

Robh3606
02-03-2005, 06:20 PM
A conseratively rated 200 watts RMS with clean 350 watt peaks almost 3db headroom at 1k where they drove it to clipping when they did the test. Full bass, full treble and full tilt!!!! Christ man your a shoe in. Going on our yearly Winter Weekend at Okemo Vermont. You sound like my friend Billy. We have to watch that boy around the stereo. Every year 3AM last guy standing stereo screeming there's Billy doing a drunken air guitar OR better yet playing drums with ping pong paddles on top of the speakers! My L3 still have dents from a year ago. Can't wait!!

Rob:band:

bob newton
02-03-2005, 06:27 PM
Yeah, Billy and I would probably get along fine. No more though, the drivers are too expensive to replace. What do you think of the Sansui 9090?:bouncy:

Robh3606
02-03-2005, 06:43 PM
I have never heard one. They look great though have a good reputation!! Had an old Sansui 2000x as my first real reciever, had a Pioneer SX1010 for a while too. Ended up with seperates a Phase Linear 4000 preamp driving the Dynaco. I like those vintage recievers. They don't make them like that anymore. To bad:(


Rob:)

bob newton
02-03-2005, 06:51 PM
:( I always thought that my 9090 was vintage. I thought it was top of the line short of a Mac. I bought my first on in 73 for about $800.00 That was a lot o mula then. I have 4 of them now. Why? I dono:cheers: Hope you have a blast in VT. I have a place in Newbury NH. Not far from Vt :drive:

Robh3606
02-03-2005, 07:20 PM
"I always thought that my 9090 was vintage."

It is and a damn nice one???? You have 4 NICE!!! New Hampshire is a Great place too. Go up to Fraconia Notch when I can and the drive the Cakamankus through the President Range past Mt. Washington back down to Winepasaki. Used to stay at a place off Squam Lake.

Rob:)

bob newton
02-03-2005, 07:24 PM
I am on Lake Sunapee. But My home is in RI. born and raised here. Used to date a gal in Long Island :blah:

Robh3606
02-03-2005, 07:29 PM
Where on the Island??

Rob:)

mike
02-03-2005, 07:30 PM
As long as you are not purposely abusing them power handling should not even be an issue with L100's. JBL's rating of 50 watts was a very conservative figure. I'll never forget hearing a pair of L100's driven by a Conrad Johnson 200 watt per channel mosfet power amp and tube preamp. I was shocked at just how dynamic they could be, provided the power is clean and the amp has some low end control. Not to mention how good they can sound under the right conditions despite their inaccuracies. That said I think a good 100 watt amp is more than enough power for them.

Mike

bob newton
02-03-2005, 07:32 PM
Somewhere in the middle. can't remember now. Also had some friends in Bethpage and Bethlahem. Have a good friend on Statton Island (female);)

bob newton
02-03-2005, 07:37 PM
Mike, thats how I always figured it too!:cheers:

bob newton
02-03-2005, 07:41 PM
Inaccuracies?? Your not serious are you??

Alex Lancaster
02-03-2005, 09:38 PM
:) Seriously Bob, You need 10 times more speakers and amps for Your parties, L100's are for small rooms only; try 4560 enclosures with 2226's, 2426's with 2470 horns to start with, from then You could really get serious.

Mr. Widget
02-03-2005, 10:53 PM
This will do the job. I believe it required around 40 McIntosh MC2300s... a bit more oomph than your Sansui. :D


Widget

JBL Dog
02-03-2005, 11:02 PM
LMAO!! OK,so if I get this right, I can go to 75 watts and its ok if the bass makes the needles jump up to say 100 or more? As long as it is not constant? :applaud:

It took me a long time (and a few recones and new phragms) to figure out it's better to have an amp that is about twice to three times the rated continuous power of the speaker as opposed to an amp that is 1/2 the rated power of the speaker. A 100 watt continuous speaker typically will have no problem handling brief peaks of 200 watts as long as the signal is clean. Headroom is your speakers' friend.

This message comes from JBL Dog :dj-party:

JBL Dog
02-03-2005, 11:21 PM
:) Seriously Bob, You need 10 times more speakers and amps for Your parties, L100's are for small rooms only; try 4560 enclosures with 2226's, 2426's with 2470 horns to start with, from then You could really get serious.

Ah, geez, I need to read the whole thread :banghead:

I used to take L150's out on a few mobile gigs, big mistake. Fried the tweeters more than once. They may sound great in a 15 x 20 room, but you will tend to push them past their limits in a large environment. Get nice set of pro series if the party heads outside. I'm not familiar with the new pro series JBL's. In the MR series, 925's are nice. If you want something small and very efficient, the EV Sx100+ is a heck of a speaker for a 2-way 12". The QSC "PLX" pro series amplifiers are affordable and very light if you're in need of a little more power.

This message comes from JBL Dog :dj-party:

bob newton
02-04-2005, 05:32 AM
Looks wonderful! All I'd have to do is re-inforce my house with hardened concrete and steel beams. Do you think the guest would like it? :applaud:

bob newton
02-04-2005, 05:37 AM
Maybe the closet? My bathroom is small. Seriously, I see your point. :idea:

bob newton
02-04-2005, 05:47 AM
Ditto.:cooked: :flamer:

4313B
02-04-2005, 06:06 AM
The only JBL tweets I've ever burned out were LE20's. I would cook them up good about every six months. Off to JBL they went, back they came - no charge. I never paid for the repair of a single LE20 or LE10A (used to burn LE10A's up too). Those days are over, both frying and free repairing. :p

Titanium Dome
02-04-2005, 08:29 AM
My first component stereo was two original L100s, a Dual 1219, and a Kenwood KR-6160 that put out 70W/ch. It really had too little power for the L100s, though it could play them quite loud in my college corm room. For some of the campus lawn "grassers", :hyp: it mostly clipped at the outrageous volumes we tried to drive it to.

JBL did do one free replacement of a blown 123-A when I sent it in with my "I have no idea what happened. It just stopped working." explanation. :bouncy:

When the output transistors on the Kenwood fried :shock: for the second time, I replaced it with a Kenwood integrated amp that put out 85W/ch, but it wasn't much better. Later I drove them with a Technics receiver pushing 100W/ch and they sounded better with the added power reserve.

When I went from receivers to separates, I drove them with a 165W/ch Soundcraftsmen A200, and they really sounded great. Now I'm running them off a Soundcraftsmen PCR800 with 215W/ch and they sound the best they ever have. I rarely go past -10 on the pre/pro's volume control, and the speakers play plenty loud with no discernible distortion. The amps don't even get hot driving this easy load. The clipping lights have never come on.

Zilch
02-04-2005, 09:53 AM
Cabaret, of COURSE! 4691(B) or 4628(B)

You can find them for under $400 the pair, now, sometimes low as $200.

Condition: Nastified. :D

Dead 4691(B)'s are fine, too, as replacement drivers are plentiful.

Folks'll think you the party MOGUL!

See here: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=39670#post39670

:rockon1: :bouncy:

JBL Dog
02-04-2005, 10:17 AM
Cabaret, of COURSE! 4691(B) or 4628(B)

You can find them for under $400 the pair, now, sometimes low as $200.

Condition: Nastified. :D

Dead 4691(B)'s are fine, too, as replacement drivers are plentiful.

Folks'll think you the party MOGUL!

Yup, always have good things to say about the Cabaret series. 4691's may be the best value out there for professional use if you want JBL's for the backyard bashes. They weigh a ton, however. 'Bout 107 lbs. a box.

This message comes from JBL Dog :dj-party:

Mr. Widget
02-04-2005, 10:20 AM
107lbs.? That's not too bad, my suggestion weighs about 107 tons.:D

Widget

JBL Dog
02-04-2005, 10:29 AM
107lbs.? That's not too bad, my suggestion weighs about 107 tons.:D

Widget

I just got a set of JBL AS1028's (dual 2242's). For the next house party, I was considering topping those with a set of SR 4732's driven with about 8000 watts for the complete system. That system weighs about 280 lbs. each side. It's been a long time since I've really pissed off the neighbors :D

Go big, or go home......... Or is that, go big and stay at home!

This message comes from JBL Dog :dj-party:

4313B
02-04-2005, 10:41 AM
Cabaret, of COURSE!:bouncy:Love the Cabaret Series! :yes:

Zilch
02-04-2005, 10:59 AM
Love the Cabaret Series! :yes:An enduring testament to vintage minimalism, they rock on relentlessly.

Sub1500 is a worthy enhancement. :p

bob newton
02-04-2005, 12:09 PM
OUCH !!! Too heavy for me, unless I leave them outside year long. Which doesn.t seem like a smart thing to do. Maybe stacking might help ie., more speakers = more air moving ! duhhhh :banghead:

bob newton
02-06-2005, 07:14 PM
Hey, did everybody run away? Afraid of L100's? and wheres Bo?:applaud:

Baron030
02-23-2005, 09:20 PM
Under powering speakers is far worse than using an amplifier that would appear to be too large for the speaker to handle. Clipping and distorted wave forms are very hard on speakers. I know that from first hand experience, having burned out a D-130 with a 13 watt per channel tube amp. Well, after many year of abusing my speakers with too little power. I am now, babying my 32 year old speakers with a full 350 watts per channel. Even though the 4311 monitors are rated at 75 watts continuous, they can easily handle transient peaks a full 6 decibels greater, and that would equate to a full 300 watts. The advantages of using a really powerful amplifier really do out way any of the risks. But, there is one thing to keep in mind, when you’re reaching to turn up that volume control up to 11. And Dirty Harry said this so well, “Very Man has his limitations”. So, I would keep the power down to around 75 watts continuous. But, have a lot of extra reserve power around just to let the peaks pull as much power as they need.

bob newton
02-23-2005, 09:37 PM
:hmm: I got a pair of 4311's too. 300 Watts? I got 150 per channel and have had to replace a lot of blown out glass windows.:crying: But to be honest, A lot of people have heard both speakers ans all say that the L-100's sound better than the 4311's:offtopic:

rbrooks7
02-23-2005, 09:50 PM
I ran the L100's with a Threshold S/500 for a while. Its 250 RMS into 8 ohms, and I cranked the volume knob to more than 3/4 way and they played for a solid hour just fine. I don't have a large enough dummy load for bench testing the Threshold so i don't know what its output really is, but those speakers handled it just fine. Just crank it up and if they blow, they blow, just fuse the speaker wires to save the amp. Anymore L100 drivers are cheaper than output FETS.

Tom Loizeaux
02-24-2005, 02:43 PM
I think the question of "how much power can a speaker take" is a little irrelevant. Speakers can take short bursts of "over-powering" in terms of voice coil heating, but physical overload creates distortion long before that point. As you push a cone, physical ripples, cone flexing and surround and spider extension start to make the cone's performance non-linear. Though a speaker may "take" your amp's "150 watts", it will probably sound terrible. This can also due be due to amp distortion and distortion in your ears! Human eardrums start to distort as levels become very high, making fair assesments of "clean audio" very difficult.
I think the speaker's efficiency, the sound pressure level you need will tell you the watts necessary. Then, getting an amp that can deliver that power, cleanly, is a good starting point. I would go for more power, just to be sure the amp can delivewr the peaks without going into clipping.

Tom

bob newton
02-24-2005, 04:18 PM
Irrelevant - True. everyone seems to think that I am afraid of exceeding the speakers ratings in terms of the amp output. Not so! The question was asked because My mids and tweeters kept blowing. I wasn't sure if it was too much power, A bad amp, or maybe the drivers are getting old. Seems that the big headache is the LE-5's. Never had a problem with the 123a-1's Only blew 1 Tweeter and 4 or more BIG $$$ Le5-2's:(

Mr. Widget
02-24-2005, 04:21 PM
I think the question of "how much power can a speaker take" is a little irrelevant.


Bingo!

People tend to fixate on all sorts of relatively irrelevant specifications. Used properly most decent speakers will work well with any quality amp regardless of the power available. If you take most any direct radiator and give it a whopping 25 watts rms with a 15KHz sine wave you are likely to melt the VC.

Widget

Mr. Widget
02-24-2005, 04:24 PM
Irrelevant - True. everyone seems to think that I am afraid of exceeding the speakers ratings in terms of the amp output. Not so! The question was asked because My mids and tweeters kept blowing. I wasn't sure if it was too much power, A bad amp, or maybe the drivers are getting old. Seems that the big headache is the LE-5's. Never had a problem with the 123a-1's Only blew 1 Tweeter and 4 or more BIG $$$ Le5-2's:(

How loud in dB (SPL) are you playing your speakers? How large is your room? What amp are you using? What type of music and source material are you using?

Widget

bob newton
02-24-2005, 04:37 PM
How loud in SPL are you playing your speakers? How large is your room? What amp are you using? What type of music and source material are you using?

Widget


:eek: Yikes, thats a lot of questions!

When the mids blew, about 70 % volumn on a Sansui 9090
Room is large about 20X14
A Sansui 9090 rated 110 per ch (measured @150 WPC}
Source was Technecs CD Player
Music type - R&B, Soft R&R, Nothing harsh

Note: I was hitting about 100 -110WPC on the lows at the time and they were in that mode for about at least 30 mins . Never again! but I used to do it all the time when I was a kid and the speakers and amp were new.

I do not remember where the bass and mid and Treble were set But the loudness Sw was off

JBL Dog
02-24-2005, 04:40 PM
My mids and tweeters kept blowing. :(

(okay, this time with feeling....)

Get yourself a set of pro-series speakers for the house parties! :D

Seriously. You'll continue to fry your L100's. I used to do the same thing with L150's.

This message comes from JBL Dog :dj-party:

bob newton
02-24-2005, 04:44 PM
I suppose,

I have not had any problems with my 4311's But it is funny, everyone that has heard both pairs say the L-100's sound better??? I have them stacked , the 100's on top of the 4311's

Mr. Widget
02-24-2005, 05:01 PM
I suppose,

I have not had any problems with my 4311's ...

Coincidence or luck.

It definitely sounds like you are over driving your amp. A typical receiver/integrated amp with a CD player is at clipping at 12:00 to 1:00 on the dial. :(

You need a bigger amp... Not a 150 watter either, remember audio power is logarithmic.

Widget

bob newton
02-24-2005, 05:16 PM
You need a bigger amp

And part with my 9090's(4 of them) NO WAY. I beleave what you say so, I'll just keep it down below the 12:oo posisition. Just don't complain that you can't hear the music!:homer:

Mr. Widget
02-24-2005, 05:19 PM
Amp choice not withstanding, I think turning it down is probably the better choice. :thmbsup:


Widget

Zilch
02-24-2005, 05:43 PM
Spend $49.99 and get an SPL meter at Radio Shack so you know what the heck you're doing....

JBL Dog
02-24-2005, 07:36 PM
Amp choice not withstanding, I think turning it down is probably the better choice. :thmbsup:


Widget

Have you thought about a powered subwoofer?

This message comes from JBL Dog :dj-party:

Mr. Widget
02-24-2005, 07:44 PM
Hey Dog,

That will only help if he runs his mains through the crossover in the sub. Unless he is buying a $2K or better sub, those networks kill the music. They just hammer the sound quality. The only acceptable way I have heard off the shelf powered subs is using them to augment speakers that are already running full range.

Widget

JBL Dog
02-24-2005, 08:01 PM
[QUOTE=bob newton] I'll just keep it down below the 12:oo posisition. :homer: [QUOTE]


That still may not be the answer. Your amp may still be sending out a bad signal depending on how the source material is recorded. Frank Sinatra may barely register on the meter at the 12:00 position..... while Lil' Jon & the Eastside Boyz may send you to the +8db position at 12:00.

Wisdom I share my DJ employees:

"It doesn't matter where the faders are on your mixing board, it's all about monitoring the 'clip' indicator on the amp."

I hope I'm making sense here..... ;)

This message comes from JBL Dog :dj-party:

JBL Dog
02-24-2005, 08:12 PM
Hey Dog,

The only acceptable way I have heard off the shelf powered subs is using them to augment speakers that are already running full range.

Widget

:cheers:

Those were my thoughts exactly!

This message comes from JBL Dog :dj-party:

Mr. Widget
02-24-2005, 08:26 PM
"It doesn't matter where the faders are on your mixing board, it's all about monitoring the 'clip' indicator on the amp."



Very true, but it only works with amps with true clipping indicators. Most home amps have light shows, they won't really tell you much necessary information.

Widget

JBL Dog
02-24-2005, 09:00 PM
Very true, but it only works with amps with true clipping indicators. Most home amps have light shows, they won't really tell you much necessary information.

Widget

Widget:

I'm mainly referring to pro-series amps. I tell my guys it's okay to let the clip indicators briefly flash, but never push the amp so hard they're staying on for an extended period of time.

This message comes from JBL Dog :dj-party: