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Pat Poulson
07-11-2003, 06:51 PM
I am in the process of settling my late father's estate and am trying to determine the model and value of the attached JBL system. Until we are able to move it from its semi built-in enclosure we're unable to see the back to determine the model. We're not quite at that point. It resembles the Paragon shown in your wonderful site, but is different. The piece has been in my Dad's home since the early 1960s. The cabinetry is in excellent condition, and of course, the sound is superb. I've been an JBL devotee all my life and continue to treasure the pair of 4311B Control Monitors I have in my own home. Any information you can share will be very much appreciated.

Thank you.

Pat Poulson
602-254-5574
Phoenix, AZ

Don McRitchie
07-11-2003, 07:40 PM
Pictures would help if you could post them. The fact that it looks different could mean that it was home built or possibly it is a Metregon shown below that is often confused with the Paragon

http://www.oldhifi.com/metregon.jpg

Value depends on whether it is a factory unit or home built. There were also two main versions of the Paragon that differred in the woofers used. The older is considerably more valuable. As a starting point, later factory Paragons seem to be going for around $7,000 these days.

Don McRitchie
07-11-2003, 07:49 PM
I just checked my email and saw that you sent me a photo of your system. I have attached it here and it is definitely a Metregon, the smaller brother of the Paragon. Value depends on the components used. You should remove the back of the unit and note the model numbers of the drivers. Metregons tend to go for around the $3,000 range of late.

boputnam
07-11-2003, 09:26 PM
Don, you are simply the "king". Nice call...

ps: I have a nearly identical "Le Coutre" clock from my dad's estate, in a quasi similar setting. Good stuff just goes together... ;)

Pat Poulson
07-12-2003, 09:43 AM
Thanks so much. The "Metregon" resides in another city and I won't have an opportunity to check out the serial numbers for a couple of weeks. I'll report back and perhaps you can provide additional information. Again, your help is appreciated.

JBL Dog
07-15-2003, 11:40 PM
Well, it actually belongs to my wife.:yes:

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boputnam
07-16-2003, 07:59 AM
Well, it actually belongs to my wife.
At least she's got good taste - er, that is, she works JBL cabinets into the decor, rather than out the door... ;)

I wasn't aware my wifey had a sister! :D

JBL Dog
07-20-2003, 02:01 AM
She wants to kick the 4343's to the curb. She says I can keep the L220's. They sound good, but they aren't 4343's. I have a super nice set of 4560 clones that sound incredible! Those would be at the curb if she could move them!

Let's see.... the L100t's are in storage because she rearranged the living room and they no longer practical.

"If you'd buy me a bigger house, you could keep all your toys!"

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

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Pat Poulson
10-04-2003, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by Don McRitchie
I just checked my email and saw that you sent me a photo of your system. I have attached it here and it is definitely a Metregon, the smaller brother of the Paragon. Value depends on the components used. You should remove the back of the unit and note the model numbers of the drivers. Metregons tend to go for around the $3,000 range of late.

mikebake
10-04-2003, 11:07 AM
Dog;
What is in your 4560 clones?

JBL Dog
10-06-2003, 12:17 AM
mikebake:

The 4560 clones are unloaded right now. It's been about 8 years since I've used tham. The components I had in them were E140's, 2426J/2370's and 2405's (a modified 4663). I used a homemade 3-way crossover (1200hz, 8000hz). It is my understanding a company in Chicago made them. They used a very high quality plywood instead of partical board.

My entertainment used to do "rock 'n bowl" shows at bowling centers. I would use the 4560's and a set of 4628B Cabaret's to fill up a 40 lane bowling center.

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mikebake
10-06-2003, 06:35 AM
Cool. Those are good boxes. The original JBL cab was plywood, too. not particle board.

JBL Dog
10-06-2003, 07:18 AM
mikebake:

The "BKA" series of the 4560 was particle board, correct??

:hmm:

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mikebake
10-06-2003, 07:26 AM
No, "high quality, void free plywood"
They were designed to be portable, thus the plywood.

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/Low_Frequency_Enclosures1.pdf

JBL Dog
10-06-2003, 07:34 AM
I always was under the impression they were particle board. :screwy: I've never seen a 4560 cabinet up-close, only clones.

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Alex Lancaster
10-06-2003, 07:36 AM
From the 1980 brochure: "constructed of 7-ply 16mm (5/8 in) plywood"; The flares were HDF, hand bent into grooves, I do not remember if they steamed them to bend them.

The "BK" was "utility black", There were earlier gray ones, the "A" was a design or construction mod.

Alex.

mikebake
10-06-2003, 09:49 AM
According to member subwoof, in an email a few years ago, if anything the 4560 knockoffs tended to be better built than the originals. Mine were in pretty good shape when I got them, then I have put some considerable abuse on them when hauling about, but they are still quite sturdy. The 4560 is one of the best illustrations of the function/effect/role of the cabinet on a driver, that I know of. Take a 2226, put it in and listen to two or three other designs, both horn loaded and DR, and then in a 4560, and you'll appreciate the drastic impact the enclosure has. They still reproduce drums and drum kicks, and much bass guitar, about as well as anything. Great impact. Put a horn loaded sub with them for a nice system. The way a 4560 effortlessly fills a large room or outdoor area is really neat.
MBB

thevott
10-06-2003, 02:28 PM
Excellent "portable" speaker. High efficiency and nice directivity. Perfect for any small show, indoors or out! Looks alot like an A7 too, doesn't it?

JBL Dog
10-06-2003, 02:53 PM
I'll always have a place in my heart for a JBL 4560. The wifey has been on me to get rid of them. :banghead:

Just recently I was bidding on a nice pair of 2205A's to possibly rebuild the 4560's, but came up short at the end of bidding.

I'll probably end up selling them. :bomb: I'm very depressed at the thought, but I need to face reality.

I think I need a hug and shoulder to cry on......

:( :(

:barf:

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mikebake
10-06-2003, 08:26 PM
Well, the weight made them not that portable, which is what killed that eras designs for live sound.That is why the band that owned mine, when they were stock 4663A's, sold them to me in 1994 for $250 the pair. And why I added wheels. I hope I'm not stupid enough to ever part with them. JBL literature stated that they were for long throw applications, beyond 80 feet! Couple two or more for unreal efficiency! Some friends who live about 1.5 miles from me heard my pair during a party at my house with a live trio one night. Probably averaging well under 10 watts continuous.

JBL Dog
10-06-2003, 10:17 PM
mikebake:

Yup, you can throw sound a long way with a 4560 if there aren't any obstructions. Hearing them well over a mile away doesn't surprise me. That's the reason I used them as "mains" in a 40 lane bowling center. :yes:

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thevott
10-07-2003, 08:15 AM
$250. what a deal! Yes, smaller and less efficient direct radiating systems (along with bigger amplifiers) replaced the larger and less portable horn systems. Unfortunately they lost transient response and directivity as well. Horns don't just disperse sound in the direction that you want it to go, they likewise don't spill it everywhere you don't want it to go, thus controlling reverberation in the room. The 4560's are a must for any large (or long), live sounding room (perhaps a bowing ally for instance).:)
thevott

Charley Rummel
10-09-2003, 11:20 AM
The chiropractors I've seen in recent years owe a debt of gratitude to the designers of those mighty cabs, like the Altec A7, Ampeg svt 8x10, Dual Showman 2X15, JBL 45xx, Sun scoop bass bottom (a 4520 in disguise), and the list goes on; some had wheels, some didn't.

There were times when they had to go up and down stairs; lifted on and off of a truck w/o a ramp or lift; stacked on each other; lifted onto and removed from platforms or scaffolds, etc., and under some extreem conditions.

Any stories to share?

Regards,
Charley

JBL Dog
10-09-2003, 12:10 PM
Stories?

Where do I start!

I hauled around my 4560's for about 8 years. I have heavier cabinets, but not as bulky as a 4560. The cabinet that really did some damage to my lower back was an Altec VOTT (guessing an A-7). About ten years ago, I had to haul the VOTT's up a flight of stairs (solo) for an assembly at a local high school. I was at the "chiro" later that day on his traction table. :(

I've had a roadie for the last seven years. I'm gettin' too old for that s##t! :yes:

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mikebake
10-09-2003, 12:40 PM
Stories? I've heard a few! And had a few. Usually I am loading them by myself, so I've become a minor expert at moving heavy, bulky items singlehandedly.
For awhile, I was sliding them one at a time up a wooden plank. I fell off the plank and racked my ankle royally; had to crawl to the phone for help.
Nearly put my back permanently out of commission one summer, picked them up off a stage during a thunderstorm; bad move.

Generally now I just wheel em up to the truck and tip/slide em in.
Puts some wear on em, but whatever.

Moving the quad boxes in the photo was fun; I ended up running a web strap aorund them, hooked to a hand cart, grab box at the side opposite of handcart and lift and balance, work my way back around to handcart, and wheel em away. Gotta watch when you set em, down, they can nearly launch you from the handcart.

Some of the worst I've seen were the EV Manifold bass units; UUGGGHHHHH. We had to use a forklift. I've tried looking up what these things weigh, haven't found it yet.............maybe 400-450?

JBL Dog
10-09-2003, 01:35 PM
The first JBL 15" I ever owned was a 2205A in DYI enclosure that had a cabinet volume of about 8 cubic feet. It was made out of 1" particle board. Used that for about 10 years. Any guesses what that weighed?

:hmm:

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thevott
10-10-2003, 08:33 AM
My back hurts just thinking about it! One really gains an appreciation for plywood.