LE10/L96/4313 variables

[hector.murray]

I did a rough assembly of my L96/4313 (sort of) clone this weekend. Initial results were not stellar, nor were they expected to be, as this was a rough mok-up for testing purposes. I knew immediately that I needed to put bypass caps in the 3113Bs'. There was no sensativity when A/Bing the speakers to my current home speakers. Hi hats semed muffled and no amount of adjusting the L-pads could change that, and so was the low end. I wasn't sure if it was the 3113s needing bypass caps, or that this crossover wasn't really ment for the 034 tweeters that I'm using. (components in play are LE10A, LE5-2, 034 and 3113B)
Anyway, I ordered up some audio caps from Parts Express and then started thinking - maybe too much.
I was wondering how this setup would sound with a Passive radiator thrown into the mix. Making a cabinet say 32x13x11 and adding a PR10 (only 'cause I have one)
Also, looking at the schematics for the 3113B and the N96, I see that the N96 doesn't use the C1 R1 R2 in the LF circuit. Why?

Thanks in advance
Regards
Hector

[hector.murray]

Does anyone know the differance between the 3 LE10 family recone kits? The 3 part numbers involved are:

C8RLE10H-1

C8RLE111A

C8RLE111H

[hector.murray]

Ok, I'll be the first to admit. It was late and my thinking process weren't the best. I'll edit my market place post for the 044ti to make it an 044 and not mess with what is proven to be success.

[boputnam]

... please understand that I am long over the fascination with passive radiators (I am still quite fond of the old Lancer 44 and Lancer 77). Me too, and me too!! Although I no longer harbor a pair of either. Totally refurbished - cabinets and all - they voyaged out over the eBay seas... :smthsail:

[droh]

I am yet another convert (or soon-to-be convert) to the popular 10 inch configuration. I had to start my vintage JBL journey with the L100, I just couldn't resist after years of coveting at least the looks of that popular model. I got a pair and did the whole restoration (even sonofagun grills) and they look gorgeous and I thought they sounded great too. But then I restored a pair of 4411s for the local TV station and gave them a listen. Ahhhhh so that's what the elders on Lansing Heritage have been talking about!

So now I have a pair of L96s on the way, and I would like to modify them in line with the sage advice I've found in the forum. This thread I think does a good job of encapsulating the wisdom. But let me make sure I have it right:

1. The L96 drivers and cabinet are fine, perhaps even better with a bit more volume and adding a bit to the low end.

2. The network from the 3313B (3113B) is superior to the L96 network as Giskard has stated once again in this thread. But I beleive the prevailing advice is to add bypass caps to this network.

3. Can the L96 network just be modified to make it a 3113B? This looks like changing the value of the midrange 13.5uf cap to a 16.5uf and adding the 16.5uf cap and 5.1 ohm resistor to the low frequency driver. And I think we keep the .01 bypass caps in place? Do I also add one to the new 16.5 in the low end?

4. In doing searches I've also read about adding additional .005uf polystyrene bypass caps, would this help out further on the 3113B? Anyone know a source for those, I don't see them at Parts Express.

5. While I'm in there is it worth it to recap the two networks?

Thanks for any advice, thanks in particular to Giskard for his patience in giving us all this information sometimes repeatedly. All of us nebies really appreciate the wisdom.

Dave

[Earl K]

Hi Hector

- Here's (http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=248&highlight=3113b) a bit of reference reading on tweeters/mids/woofer sizes and networks, all from an old thread that you may find interesting.

- BTW: In what way did you find the bass lacking from your L96 mockups ?

- Here's another interesting thread on le5 subenclosure options (http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=658&highlight=3113b) that's quite handy.

<> EarlK

[hector.murray]

Giskard, I always appreciate your advice. :)
I knew that the 104h and the le5-x were different, but not the 044 and the 044ti. I was hoping to substitute - albeit temperarily - the 034 or 035ti for an 044 or 066
Is there a post somewhere with the Theile params of these tweeters?

EarlK thanks yet again for the referance material. The bass seemed muddy. It is most likely b/c the port tuning isn't right. ( I gutted an L40 cabinet - cut the baffle out and replaced it. ) It was really a quick and dirty assembly. The baffle isn't permanently mounted yet, just wanted to get a feel for the assembly. I think I found a good sub enclosure for the LE5. A CD stack cover, the kind that comes with a 50 or 100 pack of CDs. 5" diameter and either 3 1/2" or 6" tall. ( I haven't worked out the volume yet. )
After the L96 clone, I have some thinking to do, as I have 2 more LE10Hs and a pair of 2122s to do something with. ;) Maybe an MTM. did anyone ever do one based on the LE10?
And for anyone thinking about just straight up replacing a 127 in an L40 with an LE10, don't bother unless you're willing to rework the crossover. ( Hence why I had no issues gutting the L40 in favor of the L96)

BTW, the current home speakers are the wifes 30 Y/O cerwin vegas with the LF replaced with a 123A. Theres not the smallest chance on the planet that I'll let those out perfom a full JBL system.

[DavidF]

I did a rough assembly of my L96/4313 (sort of) clone this weekend. Initial results were not stellar, nor were they expected to be, as this was a rough mok-up for testing purposes. I knew immediately that I needed to put bypass caps in the 3113Bs'.

Bypassing the caps is more of a refinement, not a fix. If the basic sound is not right, you need to look double check the wiring configuration and connections.


There was no sensativity when A/Bing the speakers to my current home speakers. Hi hats semed muffled and no amount of adjusting the L-pads could change that, and so was the low end. I wasn't sure if it was the 3113s needing bypass caps, or that this crossover wasn't really ment for the 034 tweeters that I'm using. (components in play are LE10A, LE5-2, 034 and 3113B)

All drivers differ from the original spec, so maybe they do not suit this crossover. Look at the polarity of the units also. The tweeter on the original 3113 is same as midrange, try reversing the tweeter connection for effect. Low end on these 10 inch may appear subdued on first listen but many find that over time the bass sounds "right".

Also, looking at the schematics for the 3113B and the N96, I see that the N96 doesn't use the C1 R1 R2 in the LF circuit. Why?



Perhaps looking for a more gently transition in the woofer roll-off. The 128H's reponse peaks at 1000-1100 hz. The single pole crossover provides a gentle rolloff up to about 1000hz when the natural rolloff of the woofer takes over. This does allow a lot of midrange excess to spill over from the woofer though and the rising impedance changes the mix. I suspect the difference was that the L112/96 crossover was preferred for the expected home environment, the 3113 preferred for the intended monitoring environment.

David F

[hector.murray]

I won a pair of 066s (and a replacement diaphragm) on ebay last week and they arrived today. Both of them arrived ok, well packed. One had a finger poke that I aspirated to return the dome to a rough approximation of its' shape. I swept them with the signal generator in WinIsd (where I discovered that my hearing quits around 16KHz) and then took a DCR. I found the DCR of one of the tweeters fluctating wildly. I checked the terminals and found them both loose. I tightened them both (ooops...) and then Ohm'd them again. Infinite. Hmmm.
I cracked open the case to discover that they had both been repaired (rather ham handedly) and when I tightened them I broke both the connections. I broke out a 15 watt solder pencil and some .015 solder and 30 minutes later I had Ohm'd this tweet again (4.2 Ohms) and swept it again. Sweet music!
Thanks again Zilch & Audiobeer!

[speakerdave]

Does anyone know the differance between the 3 LE10 family recone kits? The 3 part numbers involved are:

C8RLE10H-1

C8RLE111A

C8RLE111H


It's a matter of where the white lansaplas is. TheLE10H-1's I have are white on the front with chrome frame. My LE111A and LE111H frames a flat black, the fronts of the cones are black and the white lansaplas is on the back of the cone.

David

[hector.murray]

Thanks Dave. Giskard cleared that up and then deleted his post. I'm working on a 10" speaker FAQ. Right now it's all about the LE10/111/212x,D/E/K110. Projected info is Small thieles, recone kits, frequency responses. I'm looking for some of the history on the woofs as well, but that will come with time. Mostly I'm scouring the PDFs from JBL, trying to put the most requested info at the finger tips. Hopefully it will be something many can use and refer to. Cross referencing and validating the info is another story. Wish me luck!

[4313B]

Most of that has all been done, I just haven't gotten around to consolidating it and posting it. It will all eventually end up in the Tech Ref Sec.

I've addressed this very issue with the LE10 at least a dozen times.

[Bob P]

Just wondering if anyone can tell me the stock crossover frequencies for the L96 and the L150A. I'm working on an L150A restoration project right now, and I'm having thoughts about bi-amping. I searched the forum and found a number of threads with crossover schematics, but unfortunately no xover frequency data.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Zilch]

Go to the main forum page, and the last link at the bottom right is to the Consumer Technical Sheets.

They're both there....

[Bob P]

Thank you for pointing that out.