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View Full Version : first Pic of my S2600 Horn



MatthiasA
01-06-2005, 11:44 AM
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/firstpic.JPG


this is my H2600 for my own S2600 - it is not finish !!!
greetings !
Matthias

paragon
01-06-2005, 11:51 AM
Matthias, where is your location ??:)


Eckhard

MatthiasA
01-06-2005, 11:55 AM
i wrote my location in a other post
iam from Germany

MatthiasA
01-06-2005, 12:03 PM
oh i forget
this is the cabinet !

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/cabinet.JPG

greetings

4313B
01-06-2005, 01:06 PM
Nice endeavor dude! :yes:

Bernard Wolf
01-06-2005, 04:24 PM
You must be some kind of maniac Matthias....:D Why not the S/3100 while you where at it ? Great job though... how the hell you managed the horn I'll never figure out. Are you planning to damp the horn?

More pics as you progress, please.

Bernard

MatthiasA
01-06-2005, 05:04 PM
ok if you intereste ok ! i will post more pics !

iam 20 (in two days 21) years old
i am a great jbl fan ive 4 lx 55
soon the s2600*g*
i made a cabinet maker ( Schreiner ) education
this year i go to school
then i will studie computer sience

first i made a dxf of the horn !
in vellum cad
than i made the templates
with mdf and putty (spachtelmasse)
then i sharp the Horn !

last week i bought one ME120HS
in the moment i order the crossover parts !
tomorrow i wil clean up my work room
and then the freetime is over :-)
i ve had two week s holidays next week the school starts again
if you want i can post more pics of the construction of the horn !

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/horn1.JPG

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/horn2.JPG
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/horn3.JPG

no i need several distances ( the red lines ! ) because i havent a S2600 at home ...
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/s2600.jpg
greetings

MatthiasA
01-06-2005, 05:10 PM
sorry but ?

what did you mean ??? with :

Are you planning to damp the horn?

damp ?



greetings !

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/1.jpg

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/b1.JPG

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/b3.JPG

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/bild1.JPG

MatthiasA
01-06-2005, 05:17 PM
why the S2600 and not the S3100

because there is no space in my room at my parents house
the S2600 exactly fit in an edge ! :)
the S3100 is higher than the S2600 and doesnt fit in the edge !

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/s2600i.JPG

Bernard Wolf
01-06-2005, 05:24 PM
In the first picture of the horn I though it was in fiberglass, thus the question, as I own the S/3100 and have had some thoughts of dampening/deadening the horn with lead or the like. I see though that you have made the horn from MDF and then will not need to address that question. Great work Matthias!!

21 yrs old, eh ? be intreresting to see what youi are doing 20 years from now :D

Bernard

MatthiasA
01-06-2005, 05:28 PM
Hello Bernhard !
ive a question !
ive Post a Pic of the S2600 with red lines !
this distance i need ... because ive no S2600 to messure...self
sorry for my poor english :-(

but the Midplate ! of the S2600
are there Holes in it ??? or is the Plate without any Holes !
to cut Low and High driver ?

which distance is from the top of the 2600 to this midplate ??

greetings
Matthias Asselborn

Robh3606
01-06-2005, 06:17 PM
Wow that looks real nice!


Rob:)

Bernard Wolf
01-07-2005, 05:57 AM
Hello Bernhard !
ive a question !
ive Post a Pic of the S2600 with red lines !
this distance i need ... because ive no S2600 to messure...self
sorry for my poor english :-(

but the Midplate ! of the S2600
are there Holes in it ??? or is the Plate without any Holes !
to cut Low and High driver ?

which distance is from the top of the 2600 to this midplate ??

greetings
Matthias Asselborn
Hi Matthias

I own the 3100 not the 2600, so I don't think I can make any meaningfull measurments for you. Also, I do not understand your question. Do you mean inside of the cabinet ? If so, yes there is a 'plate' or we could say, a 'baffle' (?) that braces the cabinet at that point. I would need to take my bass driver out to tell you the exact location but as I recall it is just below the bottom edje of the horn. I don't think that this distance would be critical as it is not to separate the two drivers but rather, from the looks, just fo added bracing. The baffle, as I recall, is open all the way around except for perhaps a 2" border. For your information, there is also a MDF brace about 2" wide that runs up the both sides of the cabinet at about the mid-point. I can't tell from just sticking my hand inside the port how far they go up but - all the way to the top - or just to the bottom of the plate/baffle. Hope this helps.

Bernard

mrbluster
01-07-2005, 08:10 AM
General dimensions for S2600 are (HxWXD) 984x559x406mm.
Your work is very impressive for a young (or old) man. You are doing such a beautiful job, it is a shame you are not building a Pair. Perhaps you will do a second one later,

Mrbluster

MatthiasA
01-07-2005, 08:34 AM
but ... i need anybody who give me the exact dimensions on the pic with the red lines

greetings

have nobody the s2600 ?

MatthiasA
01-07-2005, 08:46 AM
how old are you when you say i am young ... ;)
i think its a good time to build loundspeakers :)

i laught about all the people in my age
with no experience and knowledge :confused:
who build many cheap speaker :banghead:
they think the cheapest the best *lol*
i am very thank full about this forum !!!
its great !!!!
i think home and pro audio is the best and JBL is great !

i am searching for a amplifier for the S2600
i think about a Yamaha P3200 / P4500
oder a JBL MPA ???

greetings Matthias

Pics about the Crossover and the Horn adapter are soon available !

Zilch
01-07-2005, 10:35 AM
It reads to me that Matthias wants to know where to place the woofer, i.e., exact dimension of centerline of the driver from bottom and edges of the cabinet.

Matthias: It is unlikely that the "midplate" is solid, rather, just a brace. There would be little purpose in dividing the box into chambers since the horn/driver is solid.

Amplifier? JBL 6230. They sell on eBay for less than $150. Originally, they were $600 or more....

MatthiasA
01-07-2005, 11:03 AM
in the pdf of the S2600 the midplate looks like solid !
and in the pdf of the S3100 the midplate has many holes !
greetings

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/s26.JPG

Zilch
01-07-2005, 11:18 AM
in the pdf of the S2600 the midplate looks like solid !
and in the pdf of the S3100 the midplate has many holes !
Yes, so it appears. Someone who has one may have to check to be sure, then, as you request....

MatthiasA
01-07-2005, 01:45 PM
here the s3100
you can see the hole in the midplate
and damping material near the horn !
greetings

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/s31.JPG

MatthiasA
01-08-2005, 04:11 PM
just ive made the horn adapter
it isnt finished yet

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/ada1.JPG

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/ada2.JPG

Bernard Wolf
01-09-2005, 06:07 AM
Not finished yet ?? :blink: Just kidding..

For your info, I am 55 yrs old and counting. As for your need for that inside dimension for the sealed bass cab of your 2600 project I now understand your concern as it seems that the cab is closed to meet the tuning specifications. I suggest that you post a private message to some of the S/2600 owners on this forum and ask if they might do you the favour of opening up theirs and getting that spec for you. It should not be too difficult to do. If I am not mistaken, a couple of these owners are in Germany.

Good luck.

Bernard

Steve Gonzales
01-09-2005, 07:26 AM
Simply OUTSTANDING young man!!

MatthiasA
01-09-2005, 09:22 AM
@Bernhard !

ive sent several messages to german people too
but nobody knows the distance .... from the plate inside ... :(

greetings matthias

Bernard Wolf
01-09-2005, 11:24 AM
What I don't understand is that if the plate is in position how would you attach the driver/horn to the back of the cabinet ? I mean the first time when building, OK, just put the plate in after. But what about servicing them later? You would then need to take out the bass driver, then the plate and finally the horn? Sounds kind of strange to me.

As for those measurments - you may just need to guesstimate it. Too bad those folks in Germany won't do it for you. The 12'" bass driver cannot be that heavy to remove as the 15" is.

Bernard

MatthiasA
01-09-2005, 12:12 PM
in the back of the cabinet
there is a hole behind the the horn!
about 18 x 25 cm - i think its more than i need
to change the horndriver 2426H !!!
in this hole it is a ferrit brass in german "messing" plate
which close the hole !
with about 8 or 10 screws !
the plate is also painted !

greetings

Bernard Wolf
01-09-2005, 12:28 PM
That makes sense - but how would they have done it in the 'factory' 2600 I wonder. The reason I ask has to do with that 'plate' we have been talking about. You know, with the 3100 the plate is open and thus you can get your hand up in there- but if it is closed like the picture shows of the 2600 ... then what? I think you really do need to get someone out there to open it up and find out what is going on in there you.

Bernard

MatthiasA
01-09-2005, 12:35 PM
in the Orginal S2600 the Plate inside is solid !
and you can remove the Horn with 12 or more screws !
with the removing of the Horn you can change the Driver 2426H
and then you can screw the Horn back to the cabinet

in my S2600 the Horn will be solid on the cabinet ! nothing to screw
and i will make the ferrit plate in the back of the cabinet to change the 2426H

do you understand ?

greetings

MatthiasA
01-09-2005, 01:56 PM
but who can me give the height of the plate inside :(

Bernard Wolf
01-09-2005, 01:58 PM
Matthias - yes I understand , but the point I am trying to make is that in the S/3100 the 2426H is ATTACHED TO THE CABINET as well as the horn which means there must be a way to get at it. If the horn is separated from the bass in the 2600 with that plate, how would one undu the driver ? My point being that perhaps the drawing for the 2600 is incorrect ? Have you considered that ? Sure would be nice if someone could open one up for you.

Hope I'm not just confusing things for you :banghead:

Bernard

MatthiasA
01-09-2005, 02:11 PM
I understand you too
but i think the low driver in the S3100 needs more room
therefore the holes in the midplate !
and the ME120HS in the S2600 is seperately

because look at the drawings
the damping material ends with the plate (S2600)

iam not shure becaus ive no orginal S2600

you are right with the Driver !
behind the Horn there is a ferrit plate
which fixating the 2426H at the cabinet and the horn adapter !
i think you must get behind the driver.... to screw it out
but there is no space ??? hmmmmm

i dont know ?
therefore i need my plate behind the cabinet ....
to screw it out ...

MatthiasA
01-09-2005, 06:10 PM
now iam looking on the specsheet !
i think you can't take out the horn !
you can turn out the 12 screws which fixates the horn
but there are three BOLTs
to the driver trough the barketplate (the red thing) ??
and the barketplate is solid on the midplate in the cabinet (with two screws)
????
you are right Bernhard ! you cant take the bold out !!!
hmmmm
isn't the Midplate in the 2600 solid ??
http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/s2600.gif


http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/h1.JPG

greetings

Bernard Wolf
01-09-2005, 08:10 PM
Well... looking at those pictures now it looks like the driver attaches to the plate. If you look at the 3100 and the 2600 you can see the bolt holes on the plate. Now that makes sense as how else would you get the driver out of the 2600 ? So... if thats true then it does allow for a solid plate on the 2600 and you are back to where you started from ! You still need to find the dimension for the bass box in order to fix the plate in the right place..... unless that is I talk myself into taking out my bass driver and finding out where the plate is in relation to the bottom of the horn.. that would be the same distance on both probably, no ?

Bernard

Zilch
01-09-2005, 08:30 PM
Looks to me like horn is bolted through the bracket to the driver.

If it were ME doing it, the foot of the bracket would have PEM nuts in it so as to permit attachment with screws from below the the dividing panel or "plate."

That's not what's shown, though. The screws are shown coming down from the top, i.e., from the bracket side.

If the panel is solid, I don't understand it. Gotta be access from somewhere....

Bernard Wolf
01-10-2005, 05:47 AM
Hi Ziilch - you got that right and thanks for the right terminology - PEM nut. There would be nothing to stop Matthias from welding a nut to that bracket and then bolting from below though would there ? Problem solved ! :applaud:

The only question left then is the correct position for that 'plate'. I don't know if the plate in the 3100 is in the the same position relative to the bottom of the horn though - and thus not a reliable measurment - as the bracket looks to be adjusable and thus may be positioned differently for the two speakers. HHmm.. what think you ?

Bernard

Wolf
01-10-2005, 07:16 AM
in the back of the cabinet
there is a hole behind the the horn!
about 18 x 25 cm - i think its more than i need
to change the horndriver 2426H !!!
in this hole it is a ferrit brass in german "messing" plate
which close the hole !
with about 8 or 10 screws !
the plate is also painted !

greetings
Hello,
i am not an expert for that cabinet, but i think you can unscrew the horn from the front and through the hole from the rear, right?
18 x 25cm (ca 7" x 9,8") should be enough to screw off the driver and than the horn, i think.
Best regards
Wolf

Bernard Wolf
01-10-2005, 08:21 AM
Hello,
i am not an expert for that cabinet, but i think you can unscrew the horn from the front and through the hole from the rear, right?

Best regards
Wolf

Hi Wolf - so you are saying that there is a hole in the back of the 2600 cabinet ? There is not on the 3200, so this would explain the solid baffle/plate in the 2600 then. Do you have a 2600 ?

Bernard

MatthiasA
01-10-2005, 08:42 AM
STOP

in my SELFMADE !!! S2600 i will do a plate like 25x18cm
i think there is NO !!! plate in the orginal S2600 !!! or S3100

sorry i dont understand you !

what the hell is a PEM nut ?????
can you explain how does it works ??????
how can you get out the horn ????
with a solid plate ?
isn t it solid ?
sorry...

greetings

MatthiasA
01-10-2005, 08:46 AM
unless that is I talk myself into taking out my bass driver and finding out where the plate is in relation to the bottom of the horn.. that would be the same distance on both probably, no ?

Bernard


oh cool can you do it for me ?
the lengt in the Horn section will be the same lengt in S2600 and S3200 i think !!
because the Horn is the same !!!!

please let me know the lengt !
and the strengt of the plate (barkets) (25mm) ?

Bernard Wolf
01-10-2005, 09:35 AM
STOP

in my SELFMADE !!! S2600 i will do a plate like 25x18cm
i think there is NO !!! plate in the orginal S2600 !!! or S3100

sorry i dont understand you !

what the hell is a PEM nut ?????
can you explain how does it works ??????
how can you get out the horn ????
with a solid plate ?
isn t it solid ?
sorry...

greetings

This is starting to get confusing, no :blink:? The 'plate' I am taliking about is the divider between the Horn/Bass compartments, and YES, there is one there as you can see in the drawings. The bracket that helps to hold the weight of the driver is bolted to this 'plate'. A PEM nut is a nut that is permanently affixed to the bottom of a 90 degree angle for the bolt to go through. In your case this could be from the bottom of the closed 'plate'. In other words from the bass compartment.

Why do you now think that there is no 'plate'? And what would your 25x18 cm plate do? It would not seal the cabinet.

Bernard

Bernard Wolf
01-10-2005, 09:39 AM
oh cool can you do it for me ?
the lengt in the Horn section will be the same lengt in S2600 and S3200 i think !!
because the Horn is the same !!!!

please let me know the lengt !
and the strengt of the plate (barkets) (25mm) ?

I may do it but not to-day! Why do you want the length - it is the same horn in both the 3100 and 2600. What you would want is the distance from the bottom of the front of the horn to the 'plate', no?

As for the bracket, can you not get this from JBL?

Bernard

MatthiasA
01-10-2005, 09:44 AM
ive told you about my metal plate behind the cabinet
the plate is to change the driver ! because my horn is fixed at the cabinet ! no screws !


then i need this metal plate !

Bernhard:
I am taliking about is the divider between the Horn/Bass compartments, and YES, there is one there as you can see in the drawings.

ok in the S2600 it is one plate ! ok ! with no holes in it ? :D

can you say me the distance from your S3200 from
this divider between the Horn/Bass compartments
to the ceiling ?

becaus this lenght is the same in S2600 / S3200

MatthiasA
01-10-2005, 09:50 AM
this lengt ( red line ) i need
i think it is the same (s2600/3100)

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/Unbenannt.gif

Bernard Wolf
01-10-2005, 10:07 AM
I will try to get you this measurment by the week-end. But how will you put the plate in? Does the top of your cabinet come off?

Bernard

Bernard Wolf
01-10-2005, 10:09 AM
this lengt ( red line ) i need
i think it is the same (s2600/3100)

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/Unbenannt.gif

BTW - that is height, not length.

Bernard

MatthiasA
01-10-2005, 10:11 AM
if i have the messures i will finish :-) the box :-)
now i have the adapter ! (selfmade)
and the low driver will arrive tomorrow
the crossover will be finished tomorrow

greetings

Zilch
01-10-2005, 11:52 AM
PEM is a brand of captive or "self-clinching" nuts:

http://www.pennfast.com/fastening_products/prod_desc.php3?cat=Fasteners+for+Sheetmetal&df=next&sp=16

http://www.pennfast.com/cad_library/graphics/s.gif

MatthiasA
01-10-2005, 12:46 PM
sorry ....sure.... i ment the height :bouncy:

Peterr
01-10-2005, 01:49 PM
OK Here we go with the points of the Dutch jury.

Take note: all measurements are in cm and of the left speaker (so mirror it if it's for the right one)

Bottom cabinet- center woofer: 34,5
Center woofer- Left side of cabinet: 32,5
Center woofer- Right side of cabinet: 24
Bottom cabinet- center of reflexpipe: 11,5
center of reflexpipe- left side of cabinet: 19,2
Upperside woofer- bottom of horn: 22
space on right side of the horn: 2
space on left side of the horn: 10
diameter reflexpipe: 11
length of reflexpipe: 14

Left woofer - right woofer : 320 :D

Good luck

MatthiasA
01-10-2005, 01:57 PM
:applaud: :applaud:

yeah very good yob !!!!

finally i need the height of the divider between the Horn/Bass :(

greetings !

Peterr
01-11-2005, 01:05 AM
Can you be more specific. Don't understand.:o

Take note: bottom of cabinet is not to the ground, but like the red line on your picture.

Jan Daugaard
01-11-2005, 03:12 AM
Hi Peterr,

Matthias is referring to the board inside the S2600 dividing the enclosure into 2 parts. It is located above the woofer and below the horn, and Matthias wishes to know its exact location.

De groetjes van Kopenhagen

MatthiasA
01-11-2005, 05:41 AM
thank you :-) Jan !
exactly !
the location of the midplate i need !

Peterr
01-12-2005, 01:02 AM
I'm afraid i can't help you at short notice. Have to take out the horn of woofer to see that. It will happen in the near future (some ajustments to the filter and removing the mesh in the horn), but not the next few weeks i'm afraid.

I think you have two questions
a. Is the board solid?
b. What is the exact location?

Question a. i could ask a friend of mine who took the 2600 apart in the past. for b. you have to have some patience. Sorry.

MatthiasA
01-13-2005, 06:20 AM
oh.. ok !

Bernard Wolf
01-13-2005, 02:15 PM
It will happen in the near future (some ajustments to the filter and removing the mesh in the horn),


H Peterr - I see that you plan on removing the horn throat mesh. What is your reasoning on that? I once asked the question here and was told by most to just leave it alone. Comments like it was made to be used that way to what if a bug decides to take up residence inside the compression driver ! What think you ? As I will be taking my horn out today or tomorrow I would like to have your thoughts.

Thanks - Bernard

PS - Mattias, if your listening, hope to have that measurment for you in a day or two.

Bernard Wolf
01-13-2005, 08:07 PM
Ok Matthias, here is the measurment. 15 5/8 " or 39.7 mm. I hope this is the same for the 2600 as the 3200. I was surprised to see that the back of the horn does have a thin layer of dampenig material sprayed on. I will be adding to it. Also, you might want to know that there are some braces running down both sides of the cab all the way to the top. If I had thought of bringing my digital camera home I might have gotten a pic for you.. but as it is I might have to close them up before I can get a pic for you. Tell me if you wish to know more about these braces.

Good luck

Bernard

MatthiasA
01-14-2005, 07:12 AM
oh thank you very much ! i think you meant 397mm or 39,7 cm !

is this the height of the cabinet in which is the horn placed ?
i think i dont need damping material ! because the mdf

greetings

Bernard Wolf
01-14-2005, 08:26 AM
oh thank you very much ! i think you meant 397mm or 39,7 cm !

is this the height of the cabinet in which is the horn placed ?
i think i dont need damping material ! because the mdf

greetings

Yes - 397mm. This the exact hieght from the inside top of the cab to the top of the dividing panel. Hope it is the same in the 2600! I am dampening my horn to isolate it from the back pressure wave/vibration of the bass driver. Don't think you will need that.

Good Luck and let us see your progress.

Bernard

Earl K
01-14-2005, 09:14 AM
Hi Bernard,


Yes - 397mm. This the exact hieght from the inside top of the cab to the top of the dividing panel.

- Are you now stating that the 3100 has a dividing panel in it that actually divides the enclosure into two separate air-tight compartments ?

- Or are you stating that your given measurement is down to the "brace" that the 3100s' horn/driver/bracket mounts onto ?

<. Earl K

PS ; I realize that you are likely using "mental-shorthand" ( assumed meanings ) for those ( like MatthiasA ) who have followed this thread from the beginning - the problem arises when others jump into the mddle of the conversation .

Bernard Wolf
01-14-2005, 09:26 AM
[QUOTE=Earl K]Hi Bernard,

- Are you now stating that the 3100 has a dividing panel in it that actually divides the enclosure into two separate air-tight compartments ?

- Or are you stating that your given measurement is down to the "brace" that the 3100s' horn/driver/bracket mounts onto ?

<. Earl K

Hi Earl - no, I thought we had cleared that up before, but as per the enclosure diagrams posted in this thread the 3100 is as you say ''braced'" and is open and thus not a separate compartment as in the 2600. Thus my desire to dampen the horn. Thanks for helping to keep us on our toes :) The measurment is down to the brace/divider.

Bernard

MatthiasA
01-14-2005, 09:55 AM
is A 397mm ? inside the cab ? in the horn section

greetings
Matthias Asselborn

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/s23.bmp

Bernard Wolf
01-14-2005, 11:14 AM
Matthias - obviously it is "A' as I have the 3200..... "B" would not help you at all.:blink:... don't blame you for double checking though :applaud:..... just remember though that I have no way of knowing if that is the same measurment as the S/2600.

Bernard

MatthiasA
01-14-2005, 12:32 PM
ok :-)

thanks a lot !

MatthiasA
01-14-2005, 12:36 PM
i will put in a solid plate ! i think its ok !
with the height of 1" 25,5mm

Bernard Wolf
01-14-2005, 05:20 PM
i will put in a solid plate ! i think its ok !
with the height of 1" 25,5mm

The plate in the 3100 is 3/4" and plywood... believe it or not !

Bernard

MatthiasA
01-15-2005, 07:05 AM
now its finished
ive all messures ! thanks a lot :-)
now i can do it for me in reality :-)
greetings Matthias Asselborn

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/s2600ia.JPG

Earl K
01-15-2005, 07:21 AM
Nice Drawing MatthiasA :yes:

- What is the internal volume of the bottom compartment housing the ME120h ?

- Before moving on with your construction plans, I recommend that you run some "Tuning Simulations" using your newly acquired information .

regards <. Earl K

MatthiasA
01-15-2005, 07:31 AM
how can i run simulations ?
ive nt a jbl speaker simulation program
ive only the SPEAKER PRO v.6 from Visaton
iam looking of the TSP from the ME120HS woofer
then i can simulate it ! with the crossover
but i can't calculate the angel side in the simulation with my program

Earl K
01-15-2005, 07:54 AM
Hi

(A) Use these TS parameters;

Fs 30.99 Hz
Re 5.51 ohms
Qms 8.04
Qes 0.28
Qts 0.27
Le 1.12 mH
Vas 4.02 cu. ft.
Mms 2.99 oz
Cms 54.47 in/lb
Bl 18.10 tesla
SPLref 92.7 dB "

- these were provided to the forum by mrbluster .

<. Earl K

MatthiasA
01-15-2005, 10:03 AM
i will calc the volume and simulate the bass
and i will check the whole spectrum with my selfmade
crossover !
i will post pics in about 2 hours !


greetings !

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 06:01 AM
the ground is 12,42 dm²
exactly 12,42153502 dm²
the indoor height is 468mm of woofer cabinet
the Volume is about 58 liters
exactly 58,13278391 liters

without any damping material

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 08:01 AM
(1) I think your horn location may be a little low. In looking at the posted pics for the S3100 & the S2600, the horn in the S2600 appears to be located a little higher towards the top of the box.


no its the right location !
from the left 10 cm from the right 19mm
and the horn self is 44cm

and this is 44+1,9+10 = 559 mm and this is the exact dimension from the orginal S2600

in the height
the horn is 38mm unter the top plate !
the top and the ground plate (stand plate) is 22mm !

the divider has a height of 397mm ?
this is the height from Bernhard !


- You need "Peterr" to give you a measurement that will more clearly locate the bottom of the horn.
- I would suggest either;
(i) from the bottom of the box ( not including stand ) up to the bottom of the horn .
(ii) or from the top of the box down to the bottom of the horn.


its about 38mm !


(2) I fear you have located the internal divider in the wrong position. It looks
too low to my eyes.


yes you are right but bernhard give me the messures .... of 397 mm

but my plate is 25mm 1"
and bernhards only 3/4"
but i think its too small ! (3/4")


Now, the 58 litres volume for the woofer compartment is workable but it's a bit smaller than what I was expecting.

I was expecting @ 73 litres .

why ??

- Also, If you look at the picture of the H2600 with the "bracket", it just doesn't look like it has enough height to reach down to where you have placed that divider .


well... but i can't messure the divider ?
bernhard told me the height



- Again, I wouldn't install that divider until you get more accurate measurements from Peterr.

.......


(i) You need the inside height dimensions of the compartment that houses the woofer . I'd be very wary about trying to accurately locate that divider from the top down. Why ? Your box and the JBL box may have different thicknesses of the top-plate -


hmm the orginal has 22 mm and my plate too !


especially if you doubled up the thickness of the wood ( which is the way your drawing looks ).

can you say me the exact thickness ??



greetings matthias

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 08:03 AM
i need exactly messures from peter !!!!
please peter can you say me is the divider bracket or solid ?
which height ??? :-)

greetings matthias

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 08:05 AM
i neet the MMD (membrane mass) from the ME120HS too
and the membrane surface SD

paragon
01-16-2005, 10:34 AM
Look at driver parameter, need Fs and Xmax.

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 10:38 AM
are these the right parameter ?
i thought fs is 30,99hz ?
the VAS = 113,83 -> 114 liters :-)

please can you simulate this with a volume of 58liter
a tube with 11cm diameter and the leght of 130mm

paragon
01-16-2005, 10:41 AM
Yes, Fs is wrong. Wait a few minutes.

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 10:43 AM
sorry port tube is 11cm diameter and 140mm lenght !

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 10:47 AM
now ive the jbl speaker shop enclosed , crossover module

paragon
01-16-2005, 10:51 AM
Compared to the first one. Sim is without any loss from enclosure or so.
Maybe you will not get this low response. Red is Box standing on ground, wall behind. Green is in corner.

johnaec
01-16-2005, 10:51 AM
now ive the jbl speaker shop enclosed , crossover module'Kevin Garrett give you a copy too? :rolleyes:

John

paragon
01-16-2005, 10:55 AM
As you can see, port has to be a little bit longer, maybe 3-5cm. Than you will get flat response.

Eckhard

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 10:59 AM
hmm are you simulating a horn ?
the ME120HS is in a Vented Cabinet !
greetings !

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 11:23 AM
hmm i cant handle the jbl speaker shop !
i will delete it

now i will try simulation with my orginal visaton speaker pro
but i need the

CMS and the RMS ,Xmax SD and nom impedance

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthiasA
now ive the jbl speaker shop enclosed , crossover module

'Kevin Garrett give you a copy too? http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

John



no..... i found the zip file on this web page !
http://www.byminsk.com/jbl_speakershop.htm
http://www.avtozvuk.com/infores/soft/jblspkrshp.zip
but if its illegal i will delete it !
greetings

Jan Daugaard
01-16-2005, 11:36 AM
Here is the frequency response of the original S2600:

paragon
01-16-2005, 11:55 AM
No, this is not a Hornsim, it`s a Reflex. Can`t explain it here.

Eckhard

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 12:24 PM
ok by the way here s a pic of my adapter !

paragon
01-16-2005, 12:45 PM
Sorry, sim was made with a crossover. Here is the new one with the new port length. Port area is 10 x 9.5cm and length is 30cm.

Eckhard

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 01:16 PM
oh its a very big port
can you make a new simulation
with the crossover

a port leght of 13cm and diameter of 11cm

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 02:00 PM
now ive simulated the ME120HS in the orginal Cabinet
without the Crossover

when i give the Parts in the Crossover Section
there are no changes in the graph ??

can anybody help me
its BassBox Version 6

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/1.JPG


http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/2.JPG

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/3.JPG

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/4.JPG

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/5.JPG

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/6.JPG

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/7.JPG

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 02:15 PM
now with crossover !

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/8.JPG

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/9.JPG


but why is the graph so flat after 950hz ??

4313B
01-16-2005, 02:20 PM
First of all, all the commas are driving me nuts! They are periods. :p

2.2 and not 2,2 :D I guess it must be a Continental thing. ;)

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 02:29 PM
sorry
i can't replace the commas by points !
the programm made commas by self !

if i put 2.2 in the gab the software made 22, !

i have to put 2,2 in !

4313B
01-16-2005, 02:30 PM
How interesting!

Here's what I got straight from the Engineering Design Specification for the ME120H. For some reason the guy that did both the ME120H and ME150H didn't run the parameters AFTER break-in. :banghead: The after break-in Fs is 29 Hz.

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 02:31 PM
?? do you also have the BassBoxPro 6 ?
in my pic ! there are commas !

4313B
01-16-2005, 02:36 PM
I've seen the commas used before, I just didn't know HT had a version like that. Maybe it's in the preferences or something.

Take CP2 (0.01) out and see if that fixes your problem.

Try the resistor in RP2 instead of REQ.

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 02:43 PM
now ive get rid of 0,01µf
and the 41ohms are on RP2




http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/simu/10.JPG

this is with the port tube !! leght 14cm and diameter 11cm

4313B
01-16-2005, 02:46 PM
Ok

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 02:52 PM
is this right ?

but the graph from paragon isnt so flat !

4313B
01-16-2005, 03:01 PM
I am not familiar with his software.

I guess I don't know what you mean by "flat". Are you wanting ripples in the simulated driver response?

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 03:06 PM
Giskard !

what are these for parameters in your window ???

greetings

Guido
01-16-2005, 03:06 PM
?? do you also have the BassBoxPro 6 ?
in my pic ! there are commas !

Matthias, it's in the preferences.
I have BB6.
I use commas too as everyone here in europe does. BTW I'm not sure with the english folks :p

4313B
01-16-2005, 03:07 PM
Giskard !

what are these for parameters in your wWindow ???

greetingsHere's what I got straight from the Engineering Design Specification for the ME120H. For some reason the guy that did both the ME120H and ME150H didn't run the parameters AFTER break-in. :banghead: The after break-in Fs is 29 Hz.

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 03:08 PM
@Guido

is my Graph right ??
with my Crossover ?
i think its very flat .........

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 03:10 PM
Here's what I got straight from the Engineering Design Specification for the ME120H. For some reason the guy that did both the ME120H and ME150H didn't run the parameters AFTER break-in. :banghead: The after break-in Fs is 29 Hz.



sorry !!!!!!!!!!!! :)

how did you get the right parameters ? of the ME120HS

Guido
01-16-2005, 03:12 PM
@Guido

is my Graph right ??
with my Crossover ?
i think its very flat .........

I just popped into that thread and need to study the previous posts. Maybe I check it later but Giskard is anyway the more professional discussion partner :D

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 03:25 PM
I am not familiar with his software.

I guess I don't know what you mean by "flat". Are you wanting ripples in the simulated driver response?

no i think the graph
after 200-300hz to 10000 is very flat
i think the graph should end about 1-2khz !

4313B
01-16-2005, 03:25 PM
Giskard is anyway the more professional discussion partner :DMy wife just cracked up. Professional? :p

4313B
01-16-2005, 03:27 PM
no i think the graph
after 200-300hz to 10000 is very flat
i think the graph should end about 1-2khz !Ah! Well, I'd not fret over it. It's basically a "voltage drive" representation at that point. If you want it rippled then you will need to import a CLIO response file (or equivalent) into BB6P and re-evaluate.

Below is the driver impedance with and without the 40 ohm resistor.

Put a Zobel on the driver in place of the resistor and see if you like your network roll off better.

Try 12 uF for Ce and 5.1 ohms for Req

Guido
01-16-2005, 03:28 PM
My wife just cracked up. Professional? :p

It's all about loudspeakers :bash: (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=4#)

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 03:36 PM
ok now ive simulated the driver in the cabinet with about 60 liters
and ive a rexlex tube with the diameter of 11cm and a leght of 14cm
and its ok
then i will build that !

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 03:38 PM
are the TSP on your window the right one
then i calculating with yours !
one moment i will check this R/C out

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 03:42 PM
ah its much better !
can i use other values t get the end of the graph to 1-2 khz

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 03:53 PM
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=976&highlight=me120hs

ah you posted the parameters for the ME120HS here !
but are they for the ME120HS or 150HS ?

Bernard Wolf
01-16-2005, 03:57 PM
ok by the way here s a pic of my adapter !

Is this the throat adaptor Matthias ?

Bernard

PS: fear not, the dimension that I gave you for the dividing plate is correct, for the 3200 !

4313B
01-16-2005, 04:10 PM
ah its much better !
can i use other values t get the end of the graph to 1-2 khz
Ok and yes. You can also change the resistor value in the Zobel to adjust the knee of the curve.


http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=976&highlight=me120hs

ah you posted the parameters for the ME120HS here !
but are they for the ME120HS or 150HS ?Ok, these are taken directly off the JBL Engineering Design Specification sheets. The only thing better would be to measure your own yourself.

As I said before, the JBL Engineer that did these two transducers did not run the parameters after break-in. :( These parameters are before break-in. The Fs of the ME120HS after break-in dropped to 29 Hz and the Fs of the ME150HS after break-in dropped to 28 Hz. That's the only data collected after break-in.

MatthiasA
01-16-2005, 04:41 PM
ahhhhhhhhh allright :-) its ok !
about the Parameters :-) :D

hmm the ME150 has 400w :blink:
and the 120 only 200 ..... hmm :(
why building not the s3200 ? ..... :banghead:
well ok ...


Is this the throat adaptor Matthias ?

Bernard

PS: fear not the dimension that I gave you is correct.

hmm shit... if the height isnt correct
the simulation wouldn 't be correct ... :barf:

hmm why isn't in the orginal JBL S2600 crossover a R/C filter?
i will rebuilt the S2600 orginal as possible
should i only take the parts from the original crossover ?
and dont change anything ?

yes this shows the adapter from the Driver to the Horn !

paragon
01-17-2005, 01:14 AM
Black=30cm tube, red=13cm tube, green= 13cm tube+network

MatthiasA
01-17-2005, 10:25 AM
today i got my ME120HS

4313B
01-17-2005, 11:11 AM
Nice! :)

MatthiasA
01-17-2005, 11:17 AM
Hello

Bernhard or Peter
can you say me the exact height ? of the divider plate ?
greetings

Bernard Wolf
01-17-2005, 02:05 PM
Matthias - I don't understand - I already gave that measurment to you. :blink:

You are talking about the horn enclosure dimension , no ? If you mean the bass cabinet, I cannot help you .

Bernard

MatthiasA
01-17-2005, 04:10 PM
Is this the throat adaptor Matthias ?

Bernard

PS: fear not, the dimension that I gave you for the dividing plate is correct, for the 3200 !


what did you mean with that ?
the diameter of the hole in the CAD file is 300mm
now i have the ME120HS and the Diameter is about 282mm

then the divider plate is ok ? or not ?
the height at that time in the Horn cabinet is 397mm
and in the woofer cabinet 468mm


greetings

Zilch
01-17-2005, 06:09 PM
O.K., let me see if I have this right:

1) Matthias is building S2600 and needs to know the location of the panel dividing the box into an upper and lower chamber, which he calls a "plate."

2) Bernard has measured the inside height of the upper chamber of an S3100, (which he also calls a "3200" here,) to the brace supporting the horn. It's a brace in the S3100 rather than a solid panel, but the horn/driver assembly mounts to it in an apparently similar fashion (two screws). Bernard measured this from below, without removing the horn.

3) Peterr has an actual S2600, but has not yet had opportunity to remove the horn to take the measurement. We don't yet know how the horn comes out of S2600 with the horn/driver assembly attached to the solid dividing panel by a mounting bracket. It may be necessary to remove the woofer to access the driver mounting hardware from below.

4) Matthias "thinks" the height of the horn chamber is the same in both the S2600 and the S3100, (there is some debate about this,) but acknowledges that the total height of the two cabinets differ. He has momentarily forgotten that the reason he's building S2600 rather than S3100 is because S3100 is too tall to fit the room.

5) Peterr would not have to remove the horn to measure the inside height of the bottom chamber, rather, just the woofer, which would, by derivation, give Matthias the dimension(s) he needs to replicate the S2600.

6) Tell me quickly so I can delete this if my head is in a dark place here....

Bernard Wolf
01-17-2005, 06:22 PM
Zilch - you have it absolutely correct :applaud:. The only thing "off'" is item 3. As his horn is self-made and he has a opening in the back of the cabinet the mounting bracket is of no concern to him as I see it because he will probably create his own. And yes, hopefully the horn cabinet dimensions are the same for both the 3100 (correction) and the 2600. THe dimension that I gave Mathhias for the horn is correct for the 3100.

Man this is getting confusing :banghead:

Thanks for the recap.

Bernard

Bernard Wolf
01-17-2005, 06:24 PM
[QUOTE=

then the divider plate is ok ? or not ?
the height at that time in the Horn cabinet is 397mm
and in the woofer cabinet 468mm

greetings[/QUOTE]

397 mm is definately the height of the horn cabinet in the S/3100. I cannot vouch for the woofer cabinet.

Bernard

MatthiasA
01-18-2005, 06:37 AM
ok thank you very much :applaud:

now i can finish the S2600 !

i will post pics in about 2-3 weeks then i hope the S2600 is finshed
school is very difficult at the time

:bouncy:

MatthiasA
01-21-2005, 09:01 AM
have anybody the thiel small parameter of the 2426H ?

greetings

4313B
01-21-2005, 09:19 AM
have anybody the thiel small parameter of the 2426H ?

greetings:( No. You will need to measure them yourself along with whatever horn loading you will employ.

MatthiasA
01-21-2005, 02:40 PM
now the finished horn !

MatthiasA
01-21-2005, 02:41 PM
and the finished adapter

Bernard Wolf
01-22-2005, 06:36 AM
Whats up Matthias ? No homework from school this weekend ?:D How in the world did you figure out the right dimensions for that adaptor ? Looks like in your case necessity IS the mother of invention.. :applaud:.. hope all goes well.. press on !

Bernard

MatthiasA
01-22-2005, 12:43 PM
last week i had three tests
one in physics and one in history and english
monday next week i have two tests
in 3 weeks one week sparetime

the adapter is the easiest !
now in the moment i make the horn into the front plate !!!!

greetings

MatthiasA
01-23-2005, 05:14 AM
the box with the horn

Robh3606
01-23-2005, 06:48 AM
Very Nice!!!

That horn looks great! The whole speaker looks great!!

Rob:applaud:

Bernard Wolf
01-23-2005, 11:17 AM
BTW, Mathhias - here is a pic of the brace that I mentioned runs down both sides of the cabinet on the 3100. It extends up to the bottom of the dividing 'plate' and then the same in the horn enclosure.

Bernard

MatthiasA
01-23-2005, 11:43 AM
thank you very much bernhard
can you say me the voltage of capacitors in the crossover
100 or 160 or >250+

NOW ive ONLY ONE QUESTION !!!!!


every one said the tube in the S2600 has a diameter of 110mm and a lenght of 140mm ??

now i calculate a picture of the S2600 an i get !
a diameter of 100mm and outside 125mm !!!!!

in my view the reflextube in the S3100 is the same in which was built in the S2600
and i know that the S3100 has a diameter of 100mm and a outside diameter of 125mm
whats up ???

paragon
01-23-2005, 11:49 AM
Higher voltage caps better sound, i heared.
Use the same reflex tube an measure frequency.
You can change it ? What`s the problem?

Eckhard

Bernard Wolf
01-23-2005, 06:10 PM
NOW ive ONLY ONE QUESTION !!!!!


every one said the tube in the S2600 has a diameter of 110mm and a lenght of 140mm ??

now i calculate a picture of the S2600 an i get !
a diameter of 100mm and outside 125mm !!!!!

in my view the reflextube in the S3100 is the same in which was built in the S2600
and i know that the S3100 has a diameter of 100mm and a outside diameter of 125mm
whats up ???



I believe your calculation is correct. 100mm is the inside diameter of the 3100 and the outside including the flange itself is about 125mm. The length is about 95mm. Caps, I don't know.

Bernard

MatthiasA
01-24-2005, 08:38 AM
is there a different reflex tube in the S2600 and 3100 ?
hmm

Hofmannhp
01-24-2005, 09:40 AM
have anybody the thiel small parameter of the 2426H ?

greetings

Hello Matthias,

you had done a nice work :applaud: .

The TS-parameters are only to use for speakers with a fres max < 150Hz, that means only woofers or cone mids can be calculated by the TS. At higher fres you can get no values for the most TS positions....there's no Xmax, no Vas and no Qts, etc. to get some calculations.

HP

MatthiasA
01-24-2005, 12:32 PM
here we go !

Peterr
01-24-2005, 01:04 PM
Matthias,


Sent you a PM with the measures of the reflexpipe.
In short, 10 cm diameter inside, 11 on front exit (pipe bends outward somewhat), 12,5 outside surround of pipe on cabinet.
Pipe is 14,5 cm long measured from front of cabinet (outside cabinet)
I hope i make myself clear (enough):D

MatthiasA
01-24-2005, 01:16 PM
i ve thougt it the whole time that the reflex pipe is an 100mm pipe !!!!

THANK YOU
GREETINGS

Matthias Asselborn

MatthiasA
01-24-2005, 03:31 PM
i noticed that my parent's reflex pipe (JBL LX800)
has the SAME dimensions that the S2600 tube
outside 125 mm inside 100 lenght 140-145 mm
can i buy this tube ??
have anybody the spec sheet's LX 800 ???

Robh3606
01-24-2005, 05:04 PM
"i noticed that the reflex pipe (JBL LX800 of my parents )
has the SAME dimensions that the S2600 tube
outside 125 mm inside 100 lenght 140-145 mm
can i buy this tube ??"

Typically if you look at the spec sheets both the cabinet and the tubes are not available for sale. Use another tube diameter you can easilly get like a 3" mail tube or PVC. Get WinIsd to determine what the original is tuned too and use the program to calculate the new duct length for the same box tuning.

Posted by Giskard

"So probably the ubiquitous 4-1/8" diameter port with a length of 5-1/2". Use the standard 4" (101.6mm) diameter PVC and make the duct 5" (127mm)."


Rob:)

MatthiasA
01-31-2005, 02:35 PM
finally ....
greetings Matthias

MatthiasA
03-31-2005, 04:58 PM
Hello ive a question about the screws! how can i get them? :(

now ive finished the cabinet!
ive the woofer and the 2426H driver

i'm from germany and i dont have screws for 2426h driver connection!
there are 3 screws in the datesheet
1/4 -20 5/ 8
what means 5/8?:banghead:

there are only the metric screws in germany ... :barf:
how can i get this screws ??
i need 5 pieces

greetings Matthias

Zilch
03-31-2005, 05:13 PM
5/8" is the length of the screws.. They are 1/4" diameter, 20 threads to the inch.

Inquire around over there. Surely you can get them....

MatthiasA
04-01-2005, 12:35 PM
today i got the screws!
now my crossover is finished!
and the driver is on the Horn!

greetings

louped garouv
04-01-2005, 12:54 PM
I wish I was as hand with the wood working as some of you guys........

I really need to get a bigger house so that I can have a workshop too..... :blah:

Earl K
04-01-2005, 12:55 PM
Nice Work Matthias !

- I think I need a review on how you manufactured the metal throat adapter for the horn / or / did you ever tell us about that process ?

- Did you have access to an original throat piece , to make up the necessary mold ?

<. :cheers:

MatthiasA
04-01-2005, 01:29 PM
sorry but the throat adapter isnt metal! its wood!
first i sprayed the adapter in black colour - iit looks like metal
then i remove the black because the lacquer was'nt good!
i got a better two component lacquer from the german company "Zweihorn"
but the good quality isnt cheap about 60Euros / 3 Liters (two components)

Did you have access to an original throat piece , to make up the necessary mold ?

no! I have'nt access to orginal pieces....unfortunately
but i hope my horn and throat adapter is good as the orginal

here you see pictures of the orginal horn throat and mine
i hope the copy is good...

i took a wood plate ! to make the adapter
and a few cm long maple wood 25mm height 25mm width and 12cm long
after that i took a 1" drill and did a 1" hole into the wood
i splited the mapple in lenght and width and then i got 4 drilled mapple pieces!
then i glued this on the plate !
and here is it

Earl K
04-01-2005, 01:45 PM
Ahhh, Okay !

- I think you need to measure the performance of that horn at some point .

- If there are any measurable problems ( not resulting from the crossover ) / then the problem would likely be in this adapter, specifically, from an area very close to the 2426 driver/adapter coupling point.

- I'll post some pictures of some the typical interior surface transitions that occur within this area in JBL throats. ( Give me some time to charge up the cameras' battery ).


:cheers:

EDIT :

- Here are a few shots of the metal throat portion for a 2344 horn .
- Sorry about the quality of the pics / it's hard to photograph black metal ona cloudy day - indoors .

- Essentially , here's what happens ; ( I've rotated the two axis , in my description to match what you might need to make ).

(i) Horizontal Axis / Vertical Side Walls ; from the 2426 to the throats' side walls , is more or less, a straight line .

(ii) Vertical Axis / Horizontal Top & Bottom Walls ; from the 2426 into the throats' top & bottom walls , looks like a very fast reverse curve of some form of exponential taper.

Earl K
04-01-2005, 03:11 PM
Hi

- Here are a few pics of the 2360a throat .

- This is likely much closer to the type of curve found within the H2600 throat section / because / of more similarity in the depths of the two throat adapters .

- It's likely hard to see but the tapered curve is a lot more gradual ( not nearly as fast as the 2344 tapered- curve )

:)

MatthiasA
04-01-2005, 03:24 PM
where did you get this adapters ???? :blink:
i thought there is nothing to buy ???

this ist the same adapter that i need...

well... ok now my horn with the adapter is finished....

your adapter looks very good :applaud: better than mine.... ;)
but i can only hope ...
...hmm iam only 21 years old
i think i can sharp in the horn a lot of time if the sound isnt good... :p

greetings
thank you very much for this pics !

Earl K
04-01-2005, 03:34 PM
where did you get this adapters ????

- I bought the 2360a adapter on eBay / just to study it / some years back .
- The 2344 adapter is part of the first generation 2344 horn . Until a few years ago, I believe it showed up as a separate part from JBL Parts, USA .



i thought there is nothing to buy ???

- For what you want, there generally isn't from JBL Parts .
- Did you ask JBL Germany if you could buy the real part ?


this ist the same adapter that i need...

- The parts I displayed wouldn't directly fit / or work . The 2360a is for a 2" exit driver and has the wrong dispersion pattern for the horizontal ( once rotated )


well... ok now my horn with the adapter is finished....

- Yep, that's the fact .

- Remember, I've only shown these for reference , if in the future , something doesn't sound right that you think may be adapter related .

:cheers:

MatthiasA
04-01-2005, 03:55 PM
JBL Germany sold me only 1 new ME120HS woofer for 450Euros
They said the 2426H driver is not for sale in Germany
the H2600 and the Adapter too

therefore i made this all by my self
two of 2426h drivers i get over ebay from belgium used 150 euros + 50e shipping
the crossover parts and pcb are about 60 euros
yesterday i get 5 1/4 -20 used screws in a little company here

the complete wood material (glue,screws,screeding compound) and so on are about 100euros

i want a high polish piano lacquer its very expensive ..

so i did a S2600 for about 900euros by my self
if i sale the second 2426h on ebay for about 150 euros
the S2600 will be 1000USd

its cheaper than the orginal JBL price!
and if i have luck the sound will be the same

Earl K
04-01-2005, 04:07 PM
,,, therefore i made this all by my self

- Yep,, good job !


if i sale the second 2426h on ebay for about 150 euros

- Don't you want to eventually make one more S2600 and then have 2 / for stereo playback ?

:cheers:

MatthiasA
04-01-2005, 04:19 PM
sorry .... my room in parents house isnt big...
about 20-25m²

the one side www.asselborn-matthias.de/anl.jpg (http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/anl.jpg)
the other side www.asselborn-matthias.de/ls.JPG (http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/ls.JPG)
in the edge a bed and a vinyl player
ther is only space for one S2600 :(
but later...in my own house or flat
i will see...

MatthiasA
04-03-2005, 06:16 AM
now ive only tested the sound of the horn
with a powerful yamaha p3200 amp
hmm i dont know...
i feel its a little bit quietly....

Bernard Wolf
04-03-2005, 06:47 AM
Most of the sound will be coming from the bass driver, not the high frequency driver.. when I run just the horn in my 3100 I am always amazed at how litte information there is above 750 hz.. kind of makes one wonder about all this supertweeter to 50,000 Khz talk.

Bernard

MatthiasA
04-03-2005, 08:23 AM
you are all right !

a few minutes ago i've connected the bass driver free air
and the sound combination woofer and horn was GREAT!!!!

in this month i've so much to learn for school..
but in the next time i will finish the box completely!

greetings and thanks a lot!

oh has anybody of you a LX800 reflextube?
because it isnt for sale in German

spkrman57
04-03-2005, 09:28 AM
I have 2 left thumbs and therefore must rely on others for my woodworking needs. I think most folks might have picked up a easier system to duplicate for a 1st time experience. I guess you are fearless!!!

Great project, I enjoyed reading about every stage of the operation. Even most of the parts that I couldn't figure out.


Ron

MatthiasA
04-03-2005, 12:07 PM
I think most folks might have picked up a easier system to duplicate for a 1st time experience. I guess you are fearless!!!


ive two JBL brochures ! both since the 50 birthday of JBL.
The brochure shows a lot of Speakers very good Speakers like the JBL XPL200
S2600 Ti5000 and so on

but ive a little room in my parents house! the XPL200 are GREAT!!!
but to rebuild it.... the Cabinet is not the main problem
the chassis were too expensive for me and my German JBL Dealer
couldnt get the parts from USA

two of XPL200 are my Dream and will be my Dream

then my room doesnt fit two of Ti5000
therefore i rebuilt one S2600:o:
because i thougt there are two chassis in it a woofer and a compressiondriver and i can afford it!
but school is so hard in the moment
ive nearly no spare time for this project...

at the beginning i found this Forum

and i saw so many good ... better ... and best Loudspeakers from JBL - its great


greetings matthias

MatthiasA
04-03-2005, 12:07 PM
Even most of the parts that I couldn't figure out

which parts did you mean?

greetings

Guido
04-07-2005, 03:35 AM
JBL Germany sold me only 1 new ME120HS woofer for 450Euros
They said the 2426H driver is not for sale in Germany
the H2600 and the Adapter too


Matthias!
The 2426 is definately available. Price is around 400 Euro.
Next time if you need something PM me :D

Perfect WORK!

Bernard Wolf
04-07-2005, 06:02 AM
Even most of the parts that I couldn't figure out

which parts did you mean?

greetings

I think what Ron meant was that "parts" of the ongoing , rather convoluted at times, back and forth conversation with regards to location of holes in "plates" and the like was a little hard to follow...;)

Bernard :o:

MatthiasA
04-07-2005, 03:12 PM
Hello Guido! thanks for informations!
now ive the 2425h and i'm lucky with it!
i need a few weeks to complete the s2600 !
today i did the priming paint!
after my difficult tests in school i will spray high polish !

greetings matthias

MatthiasA
04-08-2005, 06:16 AM
Hello

please help me !!!!!
I need one last Information!

can anybody take a high quality and good
photo of

S2600 or
S3100 or MK2

port tube ( reflex tube)

PLEASE !!!!!!!! :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

thanks a lot

Guido
04-08-2005, 01:17 PM
Do you need the measures?

MatthiasA
04-08-2005, 03:43 PM
Hello!
i have messures (diameter 100mm / lenght 140mm)
in front of the tube inside 100mm outside 125mm
i need good quality reflextube pictures

because i have now 5 tubes but they are all not the same design that orginal tube !
i dont know the design of an orginal S2600 ort S3100 or MK2 Tube
therefore please take a photo :-)

thanks a lot!

greetings matthias

MatthiasA
04-12-2005, 02:05 PM
latest news!

greetings Matthias Asselborn

4313B
04-12-2005, 02:07 PM
Dude! :coolness:


:applaud:

Bernard Wolf
04-12-2005, 05:20 PM
Lookin' real good Mathias!! :applaud: You really will have to do another though.. you know that don't you ? ;)

Bernard

Robh3606
04-12-2005, 05:34 PM
That looks great:applaud:


Rob:bouncy:

ngccglp
04-12-2005, 06:22 PM
My jaw just hit the floor. You're the man :applaud:

Mr. Widget
04-12-2005, 06:28 PM
I'm impressed! :applaud:
You are still in school living at home right... you are way ahead of the rest of us... wow!!

Nice work.

Widget

MatthiasA
04-15-2005, 12:14 PM
the orginal LX800 reflextube is available at JBL Germany
24 Euros including shipping

i think lx800 / s2600 tubes are the same

greetings matthias

alltec
04-16-2005, 06:33 AM
Hello, it looks great, well done~~~ http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gif

I have a few questions about the throat?

It seems that you used a lot wooden stick in the throat. What is the green colour glue? How to smooth the internal of the throat? On the other hand, i think that the wooden part between the throat and the driver will be apart due to the weight of the driver.

MatthiasA
04-16-2005, 10:37 AM
What is the green colour glue?

its a high power construction glue which foam-up !!!


How to smooth the internal of the throat?

with a lot of sandpapers :-)


On the other hand, i think that the wooden part between the throat and the driver will be apart due to the weight of the driver.

yes you are right, the same i thougt a week ago
therefore ive a opening in the backside of the Speaker
with a MDF Plate!
i glue the circle wood on the plate ! the woodenpart between the throat and the driver will never be broken !

you can take a look at the pics

greetings matthias

alltec
04-16-2005, 12:27 PM
You solved the problem, it is a good solution. :applaud:


In fact, i had tried to make an Altec multicell horn before. I use metal sheet to make it. But, ringing is happened. :banghead:

It seems that wooden horn will not ringing, i will make another one later. :D

MatthiasA
04-16-2005, 02:59 PM
whats a metal sheet ?

greetings matthias

MatthiasA
04-16-2005, 03:42 PM
ive a question!

should i take the wood frame under the box or 4 spikes ?
and how should i damp woofers cabinet ?

greetings

Bernard Wolf
04-16-2005, 05:59 PM
ive a question!

should i take the wood frame under the box or 4 spikes ?
and how should i damp woofers cabinet ?

greetings

The woofer cab should be fiberglass as is the norm.. I use large ceramic tiptoes under my 3100.. they are about 2" diameter.

Sheet metal is just that , a sheet of metal perhaps 1/16" to 1/8" inch thick. You cut it to size.

Good luck with the Everest !! ;)

Bernard

MatthiasA
04-17-2005, 02:11 AM
thank you !
should i take spikes or the wooden frame ?
the everest project must wait until ive my own flat or house...
in a few years ... but i will do any CAD drawings of the Horn!

alltec
04-17-2005, 04:14 AM
Bernard is right, metal sheet is a thin iron sheet, it is so easy to cut it.

Your CAD drawing is really good.:applaud:

MatthiasA
04-17-2005, 07:31 AM
thank you!
should i take spikes under the Box or the wooden frame?

Bernard Wolf
04-17-2005, 08:16 AM
Well you may as well do the frame like JBL original equipment... you can always experiment with different footers from there.

B

MatthiasA
04-17-2005, 09:39 AM
Bernhard....
... could you please take a big photo of your JBL S3100 MK2's ground
(red circles in your pic)
that would be very fine
could you take a photo of the terminals too
yes.. i know iam stressing... sorry...
only this 2 photos :o:

Bernard Wolf
04-19-2005, 06:57 AM
Here they are: Don't ask where to get the tiptoes because I have no idea.. I do not even know what they are called. I found them about 5 or 6 years ago.

Bernard

mrbluster
04-19-2005, 09:52 AM
If anyone is considering trying their hand at building the S2600, I have a pair of NOS ME120HS woofers. I do not believe they are available in the US. I think Matthias Paid $450 Euros for "one" in Germany (over $500 US) I will sell the pair for $400 plus $50 shipping (continental U.S. only) Send me a PM If you are interested.

MatthiasA
04-19-2005, 12:57 PM
hello mrbluster

yes the woofers are available in Germany
one brand new cost 450 Euros
if i had more space in my room for more S2600
i would bye yours immediately!!!!!
today ive bought the LX800 Reflextube for 24Euros
the S2600 is out of stock here in Germany

ive asked my parents
i would built a pair for them but they dont
want two new (selfmade) Loudspeakers...

sorry mrbluster....

greetings Matthias

yggdrasil
04-19-2005, 03:32 PM
Mathias - as an enthusiast - pls we are at least stereo, not mono. Build the second one.,,

MatthiasA
04-20-2005, 12:44 PM
the next project will be the Everest !
4 times ! ( two pairs)
for a friend ! in about 2-3 month i will start!
the CAD File of the Horn is nearly finished...
the whole project ( 2 pairs) will be cheap :p
with selfmade Horns without chassis and without crossovers
today ive learnd some mathematics frieday iv an math exam!
then i will finish my S2600
sooner or later i will build the second S2600

Horn - black
Cabinet - white

greetings Matthias

MatthiasA
04-23-2005, 07:49 AM
ive a question about the wooden frame unter the S2600/S3100
can anyone say me the thikness of it

greetings matthias

Bernard Wolf
04-23-2005, 10:54 AM
nHere is the picture you wanted Matthias. The frame on the 3100 is
3/4" x 1 3/4".

The bottom of the port cut is 1 3/4" as well.. that is from the bottom of the cabinet to the bottom of the cut, not the top of the plastic port as you have marked. To where you have marked it is 2 1/8 ".

Bernard

MatthiasA
04-23-2005, 01:11 PM
:applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

thanks a lot !!!!!! Bernhard!

is this right?

Bernard Wolf
04-23-2005, 04:51 PM
NO !!! The red is 1/2" and the yellow is 3/4". The 1 3/4" is the width of the frame.

Bernard

MatthiasA
04-24-2005, 06:03 AM
ah ok ! red is 1/2" (12,5mm) and yellow 3/4" ( 19mm)

thanks a lot! :applaud:

MatthiasA
04-25-2005, 05:29 AM
Hello Bernhard! could you do some final messures ?
Greetings Matthias

1= ?
2= ?
.
.
.

MatthiasA
04-28-2005, 06:20 AM
the orginal Reflextube just arrived

greeting matthias

Guido
04-28-2005, 12:33 PM
Hello Bernhard! could you do some final messures ?


This guy is crazy! A damned crazy perfectionist ;)

Bernard Wolf
04-28-2005, 12:49 PM
This guy is crazy! A damned crazy perfectionist ;)

Ya... and I'm the object of his desire..:blink:

Don't worry Matthias, I will get to it once I figure it out :banghead:

Bernard

MatthiasA
04-28-2005, 01:18 PM
oh no problem Bernhard
i have the Dimensions yet!

1) 12.7 mm (½ Zoll)
2) 12.7 mm (½ Zoll)
3) 93 mm (3,6 Zoll)
4) 172 mm (6,78 Zoll)
5) 51 mm (2 Zoll)
6) 24 mm (1 Zoll)
7) 24 mm (1 Zoll)
8) 38 mm (1½ Zoll)

please correct me when it is wrong

greetings

MatthiasA
04-29-2005, 12:05 PM
the Tube is in!

MatthiasA
04-30-2005, 11:20 AM
the S2600 sounds veeeeeery goooood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

MatthiasA
05-07-2005, 07:19 AM
this is the startshot for the second S2600!

i sell my red subwoofer on ebay!
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7513813709

after that i ve space fro the second S2600
i hope i can afford the both ME120HS from mrbluster

greetings Matthias

MatthiasA
05-11-2005, 09:31 AM
could anybody make a very large and high quality photo
of the wooden stripe?

or knows anybody the name of this wood? :blink:

greetings Matthias

louped garouv
05-11-2005, 09:39 AM
I hope to have a woodshop and develop an ability to clone enclosures as well as you are able to.......

Damn, that is a purty project :applaud:

Bernard Wolf
05-11-2005, 10:26 AM
could anybody make a very large and high quality photo
of the wooden stripe?

or knows anybody the name of this wood? :blink:

greetings Matthias

I hate to have to admit this Matthias, but it is not wood - it is metal ! In other words, it is a strip of metal made to look like wood. I have thought to replace mine with real wood someday,, so, if I were you, that is exactly what I would do.

Bernard

MatthiasA
05-11-2005, 10:51 AM
ok i'd like to make it from real wood!!! as orginal as possible
but i need a very hight quality and big photo!

i know it before that this isnt real wood but i will clone it exactly
please take any shoots!

greetings

spirou38
05-12-2005, 05:48 AM
Hi Mathias,

Perhaps you could find what you are looking for in some of my pages at this address

http://pas.voisin.free.fr/

you will find some pictures of my S2600 & S3100MKII that I sold more than one year ago in the directory

JBL S2600 & S3100MKII/ (http://pas.voisin.free.fr/JBL%20S2600%20&%20S3100MKII/)

You could find a picture with the wood and the logo in the file

S2600 logo.jpg (http://pas.voisin.free.fr/JBL%20S2600%20&%20S3100MKII/S2600%20logo.jpg)

The woodden imitation is "ronce de noyer" in french and perhaps "burr walnut" ( ??? ).

Have fun with your JBL's.

Pascal

MatthiasA
05-12-2005, 09:49 AM
:applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:



GREAT PICS
thanks a lot !

i will post pics when my second JBL is finished
and both are in high gloss/polished lacquer

MatthiasA
05-12-2005, 12:48 PM
ok next pics in the middle of june will show 2 finished S2600 with high polished paint

greetings Matthias

spirou38
05-13-2005, 07:09 AM
Hi Mathias,

What is the first of the last pictures you posted ? Is it for building the horn ?

Pascal

MatthiasA
05-13-2005, 02:41 PM
its the backside of the Horn :-)
see attached file!

MatthiasA
05-13-2005, 03:42 PM
ohh i forget ... i've found my large veneer collection...
i took a few pics
which would you choose of front veneer for the S2600

spirou38
05-14-2005, 12:22 AM
Hi Matthias,

Nice collection:applaud:

For the wooden stripe I think I will choose the 16th ( starting from up left corner, the 3rd starting from down left corner ). It is the one that look like the original. Is it burr walnut ?

Pascal

MatthiasA
05-14-2005, 03:28 AM
sorry... here is the orginal output picture with numbers

http://www.asselborn-matthias.de/pic.JPG

these are a few suitable veneers of my collection...

greetings

MatthiasA
05-14-2005, 03:35 AM
i ve found a suitable burr walnut veneer - what do you think ?


http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_on_4_22_2004_17_36_24/Burr%20Walnut.jpg00e9f375-bf38-483c-8545-45f9f1c0c089Large.jpg

MatthiasA
05-14-2005, 05:27 AM
this is a preview i did it in MSPaint !
is this good?
what do you think?

spirou38
05-14-2005, 07:41 AM
Yeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssss ! it's the good one :D

Bernard Wolf
05-14-2005, 09:55 AM
i ve found a suitable burr walnut veneer - what do you think ?


http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_on_4_22_2004_17_36_24/Burr%20Walnut.jpg00e9f375-bf38-483c-8545-45f9f1c0c089Large.jpg

This one is just about perfect !!

Bernard

MatthiasA
05-17-2005, 01:01 AM
Hello!

Today I was by my vaneer dealer!
He has a lot of original burr walnut.. but!
It's naturaly very very dark not red..
Now i took a "Mavona" vaneer its like "Vavona" the roots of a Mammuttree
i paid a bout 15euros and 5euros for the other large 4m vaneer
i will take the large vaneer under the Mavona! to make a 1m x 10cm x5mm wood

greetings Matthias

MatthiasA
05-22-2005, 07:13 AM
Hello!

now ive some sheep-wants damping material
where must i damp the cabinet in the bass section?

greetings Matthias

Bernard Wolf
05-22-2005, 08:57 AM
Hello!

now ive some sheep-wants damping material
where must i damp the cabinet in the bass section?

greetings Matthias

What the heck is "sheep-wants dampiing material" ??:o:

Do you mean fiberglass insulation ?

Bernard

MatthiasA
05-22-2005, 09:24 AM
oh sorry i meant "Lamb's wool"

MatthiasA
05-22-2005, 09:25 AM
or should i take foam?
where must i damp the cabinet in the bass section?

greetings Matthias

yggdrasil
05-22-2005, 04:38 PM
Hello!

Today I was by my vaneer dealer!
He has a lot of original burr walnut.. but!
It's naturaly very very dark not red..


Walnut changes a lot when oiled. Next time you visit this dealer, bring some oil to get a better picture of the final results.

R Beardsley
05-22-2005, 06:03 PM
Mathias....Do you have to do this the hard way? Can't you get a backed sheet of veneer? Man, you are looking at a lot of work to get that veneer matched up! If you want a little more red, look into aniline dyes. They will not look muddy, are color-fast, and quite easy to apply. You can apply any finish over it too.

Bernard Wolf
05-22-2005, 06:25 PM
oh sorry i meant "Lamb's wool"

I think that lambs wool was the traditional material for stuffing cabinets but I gather it is not much used today due to cost. I also thought that this was used to fill up a cabinet. On the other hand I do believe that the fiiberglass that JBL use nowadays is for virtual volume not dampening. In any case, in the S/3100 the fiberglass is on all surfaces - top and botton included - but not the front baffle.

Hope this helps, but I think you should find out about the real purpose of the cabinet material before using the lambs wool although I guess you could experiment with it.

Bernard

MatthiasA
05-23-2005, 02:43 AM
Walnut changes a lot when oiled. Next time you visit this dealer, bring some oil to get a better picture of the final results.


yes you are right!
i tried this with the mavona several days ago
its a very good result
thanks a lot!

MatthiasA
05-23-2005, 06:48 AM
Mathias....Do you have to do this the hard way? Can't you get a backed sheet of veneer? Man, you are looking at a lot of work to get that veneer matched up! If you want a little more red, look into aniline dyes. They will not look muddy, are color-fast, and quite easy to apply. You can apply any finish over it too.



Sorry but ..what is a backed sheet of vaneer ?

I want wood naturally no paint!!! J only high gloss
Greetings Matthias

MatthiasA
10-18-2007, 04:56 PM
Hello,

now the End of the long Story
i want to thank all members of the Lansing Heritage Forum
which helped me to break the finish line ;-)

Ive made a new Thread in the DIY Forum
there i will post all Photos and Messures of this big and great Project
thanks a lot!!!!!!! this Forum is the greatest ive ever seen.

:applaud: