JBL 123A-1 recone

[bobcoaudio]

hi folks,
so it seems I can not find a recone for 123A-1. All others are easy but I can not get an answer on the "FIT INTO" for these drivers. I don't want to just put in any after market recone that might or might not be correct.Help please.thanks

[Earl K]

The following is the recone I would consider using ( assuming an original from JBL can't be sourced ).

(Click the pic for the link)

https://reconingspeakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/2213AM-AQ-PRE-247x296.jpg (https://reconingspeakers.com/product/jbl-2213h-aquaplas-aftermarket-pre-assembled-recone-kit)


The fact that it comes pre-assembled as well as having a cone painted with a plastic/aquaplas substitute moves it ahead of the pack ( IMO ).

:)

[Donzash]

I have seen a couple. Any reviews on the following?
Upland - https://www.ebay.com/itm/274474085054?hash=item3fe7ee2abe%3Ag%3AOzQAAOSwm8Z fR9Am&LH_BIN=1
Hempopotamus - https://www.ebay.com/itm/184177197683?hash=item2ae1d10273%3Ag%3Ab0sAAOSwSLt atxJI&LH_BIN=1
Speaker exchange - https://reconingspeakers.com/products-page/jbl-2213h-aquaplas-aftermarket-pre-assembled-recone-kit/

They all have the aquaplas stuff, but vary a lot in price. I don't mind spending more, but I thought it would be best to get reviews on these.
It seems kits for 2213, 2213H, 123A-1 and 123A-3 are pretty much the same.


The following is the recone I would consider using ( assuming an original from JBL can't be sourced ).

(Click the pic for the link)

https://reconingspeakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/2213AM-AQ-PRE-247x296.jpg (https://reconingspeakers.com/product/jbl-2213h-aquaplas-aftermarket-pre-assembled-recone-kit)


The fact that it comes pre-assembled as well as having a cone painted with a plastic/aquaplas substitute moves it ahead of the pack ( IMO ).

:)

[BMWCCA]

As always, Ken's kit (Upland) comes with the best credentials. :thmbsup:

If the factory kit were still available, very few would take issue with paying more for it. This would seem to be possibly even better than the final kits from JBL. I'm betting you could give Edgewound a call or a PM here and ask questions, if needed.

[Donzash]

Managed to get Ken's kit and got it professionally reconed. Comparing it with older JBL 123A-3s, I found the reconed version a lot stiffer when pushing the cone in and the cone itself seems heavier/thicker. Are these expected results from reconing or refurbishing speakers?
Overall it does produce sightly lower DB levels than the older non-reconed versions. Should I be expecting some break in period?
I am guessing the non-reconed ones will have more prominant mids, hence shows a higher average DB output?

[RMC]

Yes you should be expecting some break in period with some good bass program material, or using LF test tones.

With a proper cone kit, cone mass should be about the same. What kit have you purchased exactly?

Since you have an older and a new, it would be interesting for you to measure DC resistance on the older non-reconed and also on the newly reconed driver to compare results between the two. Without instruments an ohm meter is about the only thing that will allow you to check something.

Normally for a good reproduction results should be similar between woofers, and within JBL's DCR spec range i have. This doesn't tell the whole story, but you'd get an idea on driver electrical aspect. Post your measured results and we'll see.

[Donzash]

@RMC, thanks for the response. Ended up getting Upland - https://www.ebay.com/itm/27447408505...fR9Am&LH_BIN=1 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/274474085054?hash=item3fe7ee2abe%3Ag%3AOzQAAOSwm8Z fR9Am&LH_BIN=1).

I actually can't measure the difference in weight, it just feels heavier when I tap on it and compare sounds, but could be due to the difference in stiffness of the surround, spider and magnet strength.

Overall DC resistance on the reconed ones hit 5 Ohms and for the older original non-reconed working pair about 4.7 Ohms, which probably explains a slight difference in sound DB level.

Hopefully this helps.


Yes you should be expecting some break in period with some good bass program material, or using LF test tones.

With a proper cone kit, cone mass should be about the same. What kit have you purchased exactly?

Since you have an older and a new, it would be interesting for you to measure DC resistance on the older non-reconed and also on the newly reconed driver to compare results between the two. Without instruments an ohm meter is about the only thing that will allow you to check something.

Normally for a good reproduction results should be similar between woofers, and within JBL's DCR spec range i have. This doesn't tell the whole story, but you'd get an idea on driver electrical aspect. Post your measured results and we'll see.

[RMC]

JBL factory DCR spec for the 123A-3 is min. 4.5 and max. 5.5 ohms. So your data is in the range. That's a good start.

[Donzash]

That's great. Will keep testing it after a break-in period. Hopefully it will the same or better.

[edgewound]

That's great. Will keep testing it after a break-in period. Hopefully it will the same or better.

Thank you very much for your purchase!

It will take 30-40 hours of playtime to break-in. Of course a new cloth surround speaker will be stiff when new. Your recone professional should know that.

https://www.facebook.com/UplandLoudspeaker/posts/3363094677114282

[Donzash]

Thanks for the response. I am sure the speaker repair professional knows it, but unfortunately I didn't.
I will go through the required break in period.

Out of curiosity, were the cones built from the ground up or did you use a JBL original cone and applied the aquaplas based on the JBL tollerances and specifications?Out of curiosity, were the cones built from the ground up or did you use a JBL cone and applied the aquaplas based on the JBL tolerances and specifications?

[mark214]

Nice video on a 123a-1 recone

[edgewound]

Thanks for the response. I am sure the speaker repair professional knows it, but unfortunately I didn't.
I will go through the required break in period.

Out of curiosity, were the cones built from the ground up or did you use a JBL original cone and applied the aquaplas based on the JBL tollerances and specifications?Out of curiosity, were the cones built from the ground up or did you use a JBL cone and applied the aquaplas based on the JBL tolerances and specifications?

Click on the Facebook link for the videos of the process I go through to produce this particular kit. It's pretty tedious. JBL stopped producing C8R2213 about ten years ago, when the retail price was $300.00.

Actually...I had forgotten I uploaded the main video to YouTube on the build process. Here'tis...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUM3sHFnRNo

[kelossus]

Click on the Facebook link for the videos of the process I go through to produce this particular kit. It's pretty tedious. JBL stopped producing C8R2213 about ten years ago, when the retail price was $300.00.

Actually...I had forgotten I uploaded the main video to YouTube on the build process. Here'tis...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUM3sHFnRNo

I might be completely off the mark here.

Outside of buying off the shelf parts and aqua-plasing the cone (which in the video looks incredibly inconsistent, large dents clearly visible) what exactly are you doing differently? I think this a fair question as nothing was really answered in that video. Not having a dig but the video only sparks more questions than answers.

[Mr. Widget]

I might be completely off the mark here.

Outside of buying off the shelf parts and aqua-plasing the cone (which in the video looks incredibly inconsistent, large dents clearly visible) what exactly are you doing differently? I think this a fair question as nothing was really answered in that video. Not having a dig but the video only sparks more questions than answers.Regarding the cosmetics of the aquaplas coating, I'll grant you that the example is not as imperfection free as a vintage factory made cone, but Edgewound is using the correct material and carefully applying and weighing the cone to make sure it is within spec. The aquaplas material is a PITA to work with and I'll give Edgewound the benefit of the doubt that his application is done as well as can be done in a non-factory setting. I doubt any of the alternative white coned recone kits are using the actual Blachford Acoustics manufactured "aquaplas" that JBL has used.

Beyond the hand coated cone, Edgewound is selecting a voicecoil, spider, and surround that most closely match the original spec. From anecdotal reports most available recone kits are pieced together from available parts with little regard to the original specifications. In fact most recone kit makers do not even know what the original specifications were. They are simply supplying parts that will fit a given speaker and look more or less correct.

So what Edgewound is doing is bringing his decades of skill and knowledge to the table to assemble the closest possible reproduction recone kits. Is it worth the cost? I guess that depends on the potential buyer.


Widget

[edgewound]

Regarding the cosmetics of the aquaplas coating, I'll grant you that the example is not as imperfection free as a vintage factory made cone, but Edgewound is using the correct material and carefully applying and weighing the cone to make sure it is within spec. The aquaplas material is a PITA to work with and I'll give Edgewound the benefit of the doubt that his application is done as well as can be done in a non-factory setting. I doubt any of the alternative white coned recone kits are using the actual Blachford Acoustics manufactured "aquaplas" that JBL has used.

Beyond the hand coated cone, Edgewound is selecting a voicecoil, spider, and surround that most closely match the original spec. From anecdotal reports most available recone kits are pieced together from available parts with little regard to the original specifications. In fact most recone kit makers do not even know what the original specifications were. They are simply supplying parts that will fit a given speaker and look more or less correct.

So what Edgewound is doing is bringing his decades of skill and knowledge to the table to assemble the closest possible reproduction recone kits. Is it worth the cost? I guess that depends on the potential buyer.


Widget

Thanks for that explanation, Widget. Are you going to CES?

PITA is correct. It's tedious, it's messy, and it takes time. Set-up and clean-up alone takes a couple hours, and my shop is small, so there's no dedicated room to do this. Touch-ups can be either sprayed or brushed, but the raw material is a paste, much like spackle, and must be weighed, thinned and mixed...and colored for the black models. The loss ratio is something like 3 or 4:1 depending on several variables. One thing I've learned in the process is that doing it too fast ends up with a sheer mess. Nailing the moving mass on the first pass is nearly impossible for this particular cone because so much material...about 70 grams...needs to be applied to be Engineering Standard Spec. JBL factory tolerances are within 20%. Mine are within 5%. Glenn Phoenix told me that Westlake Audio rejects/rejected 50% of JBL drivers because they weren't acceptable for his systems.

In this particular video, I hesitated to post close up views for this cone, because it's got some visible flaws, but not bad enough to call a reject from a few dimples because the amount of Aquaplas applied to the cone ended up to be dead on for moving mass. My eBay listing photos is a damn-near cosmetically perfect example. Such is one-at-a-time processes for a little fish like me. Believe me...I've rejected quite few. Chalk it up to the learning process.

The process to get to the published moving mass spec for Aquaplas coated cones takes several days to get it right. Set-up the spray rig, measure the gross amount of Aquaplas, thin it and mix it for spraying, spray it, pray it stays on the cone, let it dry overnight, weigh it again, most likely spray some more....repeat. Takes a few days to build one kit that's acceptable to ship or install.

Why do I do this? The most successful speaker systems that JBL ever produced...Some are just now in need of repair after 50+ years in service. That, in itself, is worth the effort to extend their lives. It's an icon...it's a classic...it's legendary...Countless great records were mixed on these systems. I love that. Many people bought these speakers when new and still have them. The Military PX, college dorm rooms, their first "real speaker". The attachment runs deep with these. Same with the L36 and L26. People simply love them for any number of personal reasons. It becomes part their personal history. So...the investment in the repair of the speaker that could very possible last another 50 years is pretty miniscule is the grand scheme of things when it comes to enjoyment.

For those that have bought my kits, the feedback is beyond satisfying. It really is a labor of love...but still gotta eat...lol.

Thanks for putting up with me.