Help with Altec Laguna 830A

[specialsboy]

Hi everyone. I am new to this forum as a result of acquiring 2 Altec Lansing speakers in the last couple months. The first being a Heathkit Legato which I just finished restoring (it will be the subject of a separate post with the before and after result) and the second is an Altec Laguna 830A which I am now turning my attention to. I have played these together with my Fisher X-101-ST and they sound wonderful. These came from an estate and were owned by the same gentleman and used together even though the cabinets did not match. I will be using them together as well. There was very little information available from the owners family other than the grandfather was the original owner of both. I worked on the Heathkit first because the information I found regarding it was clear and everything was original and made sense. Things aren’t quite so clear on the Laguna although I believe it is all original based on what I see and the original owner stating that they were never modified.

My Hypothesis is that the original owner purchased the Laguna first and then the Heathkit to have a stereo pair because they both have the same components even though the cabinets were vastly different. My thought is that this was done to save money as the Heathkit was a few hundred dollars cheaper at the time. This is just my guess as to why someone would have 2 completely different looking speakers. This theory could be blown out of the water because I have no idea what year the Laguna was produced (I know the Heathkit age based on the date stamp Nov 1956 on the woofers).

Now I do know some things about the Laguna:


Finish is Mahogany
grill cloth and emblem are original
Inside components are all correct

2 x 803A
802D
511 Horn
N-500-D Network


803A makes it an earlier Laguna
Overall the Speaker is in outstanding shape except for the fact that the trim piece across the front is broken because “someone tried to lift it from there once”. Aside from this, the cabinet is in excellent shape and just needs cleaned. I have a piece of mahogany and the original trim piece to use as a template so this will be fixed shortly.
The speaker sounds great


What I don’t know and things that are different when I compare this to other Laguna speakers that I have seen online are the following (This is where I am hoping to get some generous expert help from here):
1. Neither of the 803A’s have a date stamp or serial # on the frame (There are numbers stamped on the paper cones, but that’s it. Each one has an S12 in a circle stamped on the frame
2. The 802D also does not have a date stamp or serial #
3. The Horn does not have a stamp or serial # and simply says”Made in USA” which appears to be correct
4. There are no markings on the back of the cabinet. It appears that a Laguna speaker should have a paper label on the back as well as the serial # painted/stenciled on the wood and possibly some other markings. I have studied this one closely and can find no remnants of a label or any other marking.
5. This speaker has 2 pieces to one side on the back (a smaller one and a bigger one). I have not seen a picture of another Laguna configured in this way. It does not appear that this was done after the fact, it appears original to the construction.
6. The speaker connection on the back is several inches from the bottom. All the other speakers I have seen have the connection terminals at the very bottom edge on the back.
7. Wire from the Network to the input terminal is brown which in my mind does not appear correct, but I don’t know.
8. There is a metal support bracket on the back of the horn going to the top of the speaker that I have not seen on other Laguna speakers online

Now, it is possible that there is a stamp on the front of the ring or on the very edge of the ring that is close to the inside of the cabinet. I was trying to avoid taking them out of the cabinet if I don’t have to as this speaker does not have any issues with the grill cloth. If it is a possibility that they may be stamped there I will remove. From what I have read, Altec used very closely matched woofers for these cabinets and it would be helpful to know if they are.

Numbers on the cones are:


501448, 207501
501548, 207501


If anyone can help me with information regarding age and originality of this speaker or any of the above items please reply. I know that everyone likes pictures so I took it outside today and got a bunch. Thank you in advance!!!!!!!

[specialsboy]

more pictures

[specialsboy]

more pictures

[specialsboy]

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[specialsboy]

even more pictures

[specialsboy]

2 other things to note:

1. 2 pieces of wood on the the inside back have come off (glue must have let loose)
2. The trim piece on the front that is broken has a square profile- every other picture I can find of a Laguna has a rounded profile to the front of this trim piece

[gdmoore28]

That cab is beautiful. I think I know the answer to all your questions, but I'll wait for the real experts - where are you, Earl? - to chime in.

GeeDeeEmm

[Earl K]

That cab is beautiful. I think I know the answer to all your questions, but I'll wait for the real experts - where are you, Earl? - to chime in.

GeeDeeEmm


I'm currently travelling / will be playing catch-up this week-end.

:)

[speakerdave]

My favorite of the Classic Altec cabinets, but I doubt the example shown is factory made. You've mentioned the profile of the trim piece. There are many indications, I think, but the key giveaway to me is the lack of tapering under the front side points of the cabinet top. That detail is a subtle but essential element of the design intended to make a large, massive cabinet look on the verge of being airborne, and none would have been allowed out the door at the factory, IMO, without it. Here it has been omitted because there was plywood at hand, not a glue up of solid pieces that could be shaped.

A pretty good job by a talented amateur is my estimation.

Love those green-finished Altec components.

[specialsboy]

That cab is beautiful. I think I know the answer to all your questions, but I'll wait for the real experts - where are you, Earl? - to chime in.

GeeDeeEmm

I would love to hear your thoughts on the speaker. Looks like Earl may respond this weekend. Anxious to hear everyones ideas

[specialsboy]

My favorite of the Classic Altec cabinets, but I doubt the example shown is factory made. You've mentioned the profile of the trim piece. There are many indications, I think, but the key giveaway to me is the lack of tapering under the front side points of the cabinet top. That detail is a subtle but essential element of the design intended to make a large, massive cabinet look on the verge of being airborne, and none would have been allowed out the door at the factory, IMO, without it. Here it has been omitted because there was plywood at hand, not a glue up of solid pieces that could be shaped.

A pretty good job by a talented amateur is my estimation.

Love those green-finished Altec components.

I see your point based on observations of the top. I don't see any others without the shaped top. This one is clearly plywood with a great veneer job. If this cabinet is indeed homemade then this was a skilled person and I believe the cabinet is period to mid/late 1950's and not a later construction. I am interested as to what other elements of the construction make you feel that it is not factory aside from the things I have mentioned. Also, I know that there are plans out there for these, but were they available at the time these were for sale or would someone have to copy a real one at that time for the dimensions? I still want to cling to the hope that this one is factory. Regardless, I am planning to keep and enjoy it. Thanks for responding and please continue to weigh in

[gdmoore28]

SpeakerDave has it exactly right - these are not factory-made cabinets. The veneer, while quite nice, is not up to the standards of the factory units. That, and the other points you've already noted, further attest to a non-factory cab. That fact will lower the value a bit, but otherwise it's totally insignificant. The cabinet is expertly made and looks lovely. I would be quite proud to own it.

As to your question about the availability of plans for home builders, as far as I know, the cabinet plans for Altec (and most other) drivers have been available for home builders from the very beginning. In fact, home builds were encouraged by the manufacturers, who offered not only the plans, but crossovers, braces, wiring diagrams, and even name plates. And for those who were not up to building cabinets, there were numerous companies that specialized in offering finished enclosures for the various loudspeaker offerings.

You have some fine loudspeakers. Can't wait to see the Heathkits, too.

GeeDeeEmm

[Earl K]

Well, I too feel that this cabinet is not original / but a very very nice copy / interpretation.

As GDM said, I too would be happy to own a pair built like this.

Here are a number ( of many ) small give-aways ( in my eyes ).

This eBay sale for a pair of 830a (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Early-Pair-Altec-The-Laguna-830A-830-A-Speaker-Systems-with-803A-803-A-Woofers-/382554618336) has a huge quantity of pics ( that are quite helpful for making comparisons ).

822428224382244

Note the close spacing ( & how it's achieved ) for the two woofers.

82245

Compare to;

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=82196&stc=1&d=1536013652

Note the horizontal "stiffener" below is "glued & screwed" on it's side > as it would be by someone who truly understands it's purpose.

82246

Unlike this ( obvious "fail" );

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=82187&stc=1&d=1536013333

:)

[specialsboy]

Thank you all very much for your insight. I was hoping for a different outcome, but based on your comments and the evidence provided I am convinced and will concede that this is not a factory made Laguna cabinet by Glenn. But I do agree that it is still very high quality and I am very happy to have it. I will use this in my system with my Heathkit Legato as its partner.

My new theory is that this cabinet was possibly made by a local furniture company for one of the Stereo shops here in Pittsburgh. It is possible that they had the plans or copied the Glenn cabinet. The stereo shop may have then loaded the cabinet with the components and sold them? Just an idea. It would have taken some skill and equipment to make this at home as it is still a very high quality build. The grill cloth does seem to be exact or very close to that used by Altec?

I have a few more questions that I would hope you could answer:

1. do you have any idea the age of the components? maybe based on the cone stamps? I think they are 1956 or earlier?
2. why are there no date stamps or serial #'s on the woofer frames or the HF driver/horn?
3. what does the S12 stamp mean on the frames?
4. Should there be more fiberglass in the cabinet apart from what is on the floor? It seems that most others have the same amount
5. how much benefit would there be by re-configuring the stiffeners on the rear panel when I reattach them to the way they are attached in the real cabinet?

Thanks!!!!!

[Earl K]

<<<<SNIP>>>>

1. do you have any idea the age of the components? maybe based on the cone stamps? I think they are 1956 or earlier?
2. why are there no date stamps or serial #'s on the woofer frames or the HF driver/horn?
3. what does the S12 stamp mean on the frames?
4. Should there be more fiberglass in the cabinet apart from what is on the floor? It seems that most others have the same amount
5. how much benefit would there be by re-configuring the stiffeners on the rear panel when I reattach them to the way they are attached in the real cabinet?

Thanks!!!!!

( In case you're not familiar with it ), here's a link to HiFiLit (http://www.hifilit.com/Altec/Altec.htm)

There you'll find a nice collection of 1950's Altec catalogs.

Of the questions above (specifically #5), I would just ( leave well-enough-alone + ) glue & screw those 2 loose stiffeners back to their original "as built" orientation .

#4, Ancient Altec never seemed to cover more than about 50% of the internal surfaces. That practice evolved & changed to a larger % by the mid seventies. Read through this sites Altec Enclosure Guides (http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/altec/plans/altec-plans.htm) for further insight.

#3-#1, I'm confident that this Laguna knock-off is newer than 1956.
- I can't tell you why Altec didn't assign serial numbers onto components that ended up within speakers (since they had previously assigned serial numbers ( I'm thinking specifically of the older charcoal colored series of 802's & 803's ).
- Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen a serial number on an Altec driver ( woofer or compression driver ) that had a smooth green-blue paint job ( such as yours ).
- Eventually Altec went back to including serial numbers on the more modern variants ( that sported the newer colors, as well as sticky foil-cals for identification > rather than those water-release decals found on the earlier drivers )

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTqAGl_MzjZNRS0s8mpf018OF9VO495W F_SMVSdyoW7v53uhAI5 https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/w5oAAOSwMNVa-du0/$_57.JPG?set_id=8800005007https://www.audiovintage.fr/leforum/download/file.php?id=97978
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AMqCMj6hOxw/WLiaHQyxBAI/AAAAAAAAEz0/put42zNpnxkAvTkI2fjmavAisLW0X6d5ACPcBGAYYCw/s1600/802-8D.jpg
:)

[gdmoore28]

Welcome back, Mr. Earl. Hope you had a nice trip.

GeeDeeEmm

[Earl K]

Thanks GDM!

I did have a nice trip / though it's nicer to be home.

:)

[Chas]

I had a pair of circa 1965 Carmel many years ago that got parted out. I still have the little conductor badges that were attached to the grille cloth. They are simple gold coloured thin stampings of some lightweight metal and the lettering is not highlighted. Also, they are not flat.The one in the picture above actually looks more modern looking. Sort of like the lettering is silkscreened on to a flat surface.

[Earl K]

I had a pair of circa 1965 Carmel many years ago that got parted out. I still have the little conductor badges that were attached to the grille cloth. They are simple gold coloured thin stampings of some lightweight metal and the lettering is not highlighted. Also, they are not flat.The one in the picture above actually looks more modern looking. Sort of like the lettering is silkscreened on to a flat surface.

Hi Chas,

( For the sake of posterity ), are you able to provide a closeup pic of your badge showing the Altec little conductor ( maestro ) ?

cheers :)

[Chas]

Hi Chas,

( For the sake of posterity ), are you able to provide a closeup pic of your badge showing the Altec little conductor ( maestro ) ?

cheers :)

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/blob:http://www.audioheritage.org/b5554be4-4dd5-4de3-8326-46d3f55adbedEarl, after all these years, I still can’t seem to figure out how to attach pics! PM me your email and I’ll forward one to you.

[Earl K]

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/blob:http://www.audioheritage.org/b5554be4-4dd5-4de3-8326-46d3f55adbedEarl, after all these years, I still can’t seem to figure out how to attach pics! PM me your email and I’ll forward one to you.

Alrighty then! Here's the pic that Chas just sent me.

82264

Thanks Charles!

:)

[Chas]

Thanks Earl. FWIW, they are sitting on top of my newly (this year) adopted and reconditioned Valencia’s. I’m totally loving them!

[specialsboy]

Thanks to everyone that posted and offered their insight into this speaker. I now have it in the house and I am currently listening to it and it sounds wonderful. I wanted to post a few follow-up pictures just to document a little bit further in case someone else comes upon an “almost” Laguna 830A.

I ended up taking all the speakers out to give it a thorough cleaning and was just curious if I would find any other clues about who made it via a mark or label or something. I didn’t find anything but was able to note how great the construction actually is. I would argue that the inside is as good as a Glenn made cabinet even though the fine furniture details on the outside aren’t quite there even though this one is still a high quality job. The board that the woofers mount to is a full 1” thick and the support pieces inside are truly dimensional 2”x4”. All the bracing is excellent and the inside was painted. I vacuumed and cleaned the entire cabinet with Murphy's oil soap and it came out great. I reinstalled all of the original fiberglass material and added a fresh layer on top. It was all wrapped in cheese cloth which worked well to keep the material together and make it look better. I replaced all the wires not originating from the network. The speakers were vacuumed and the frames lightly cleaned with rubbing alcohol. Everything came out fantastic. The finish on the outside was in great shape with no scratches but some oxidation of the varnish. I used a product called Howard’s restore-a-finish and it made the outside of the cabinet look like new- a great product that you should look into if restoring an old cabinet. I got everything back together using loctite on all the mounting bolts just to prevent loosening from vibration. I got it in the corner, hooked it up to my Fisher and it sounds great! The only thing left to do is make a replacement trim piece for the front, but I didn’t want to wait for that to get it into service. Thanks for looking! I would love to see another similar one show up here

**One last question- What does the stamp with S12 in a circle mean? Please see last picture ****

[specialsboy]

more pics

[specialsboy]

forgot to mention:

Original "Glenn made" Altec Lansing Laguna 830A measurements from Altec catalog: 46 1/2" H x 42 1/2 W x 26 1/2" D



Mine measures: 46 1/2" H x 41 3/4" W x 26 1/4 D...................pretty close