L65 vs 4430

[Dachox]

I have an oportunity to get a pair of 4430's to replace my loved L65, I really don't know if it's a good step.
I owned the 4425 and don't like it at all, but I think the 4430 it's in another league.
I'm afraid to miss the 077 a lot :( with this change.
Can anybody give me a thought about this? Thanks!

[martin_wu99]

I have an oportunity to get a pair of 4430's to replace my loved L65, I really don't know if it's a good step.
I owned the 4425 and don't like it at all, but I think the 4430 it's in another league.
I'm afraid to miss the 077 a lot :( with this change.
Can anybody give me a thought about this? Thanks!
Keep both of them:D

[1audiohack]

I would counsel you to give a good long listen before you decide. These are very different speakers as you know.

Barry.

[jbl4ever]

Hello Dachox, I have both the L65's and 4430's and have listened to them for years. The L65's are good speakers but the 4430's win hands down. The 4430's have higher efficiency 93db verse 89/90db, better bass extension, a effortless less in your face midrange and better imaging and soundstage. The L65's do have the 4430's on the very top registers. If you eq the top on the 4430's around 15 to 16Khz by 4 or 5 db this helps balance it out for a bit more top end. Also the 4430's can play very loud a pair can reach over 115db with full input. Give the 4430's a listen and see, I do not think you will go back unless size matters. Hope this helps:)

[Ian Mackenzie]

I have an oportunity to get a pair of 4430's to replace my loved L65, I really don't know if it's a good step.
I owned the 4425 and don't like it at all, but I think the 4430 it's in another league.
I'm afraid to miss the 077 a lot :( with this change.
Can anybody give me a thought about this? Thanks!

Can you state why you don’t like the 4425?
Is the 4430 an opportunity or do you find the L65 deficient in some way.

Aside from that perhaps talk to other forum members for their views on other jbls that use the 077/2405? Examples are the 4315 and the L300 or the 4333 / 4343 / 4344. These are larger more efficient loudspeakers (except 4315)

If you plan to stay with 10 or 12 inch system consider the 4313, the XPL series or a 4312 series. These system are more refined than the L65.

IMHO the 4430 is a good alround system but it’s not exceptional in any one particularly area as a HiFi loudspeaker for home use. I find it somewhat muted for midrange clarity compared to the larger 4435 which uses a lighter cone with a helper woofer.

If you are patient you might find an Array system which have excellent imaging and accuracy.

[johnlcnm]

I have an oportunity to get a pair of 4430's to replace my loved L65, I really don't know if it's a good step.
I owned the 4425 and don't like it at all, but I think the 4430 it's in another league.
I'm afraid to miss the 077 a lot :( with this change.
Can anybody give me a thought about this? Thanks!

I'm also interested in your thoughts of the 4425 anomalies. I have modified the pair I have in an attempt to eliminate the flaws that I perceive.

Regards,

John

[Vahe Sahakian]

I have an oportunity to get a pair of 4430's to replace my loved L65, I really don't know if it's a good step.
I owned the 4425 and don't like it at all, but I think the 4430 it's in another league.
I'm afraid to miss the 077 a lot :( with this change.
Can anybody give me a thought about this? Thanks!


Here is my take on 4430, if you are primarily into vinyl you will love the sound of this speaker, the lack of high frequencies at the very top helps mask off the surface noise and other nasties that are the hallmark of the analog format but if you prefer CD and SACD sound then this speaker is simply not full range.
At my age I do know that I can not hear 16kHz but in the real world I can tell that something is missing from the upper end of 4430.

[Dachox]

Well, thanks for your replies on this thread!

Some answers:

- I can't afford to have both. I have to sell the L65's to buy the 4430's

- At the time I had the 4425's also had L80t3, everything sounds better (for my ears and taste) in the L80t3, my amp at that time was a Yamaha CA2010, the lack of high frequencies in the 4425 was notorious, also bass was better in the L80t3.
Then I bought a pair of Yamaha NS1000 and I love the middle and high freq. but not the bass, so I finally get the L65, and I think are the most complete of all, more musical and great for home use.

- I know there are a lot of other options, but in my country its very difficult to find a classic JBL speaker

- I listen the 4430 for two hours at the sellers home and I really like it, I feel it more in your face sound, love the midrange and the soundstage, but I really worry about the high freq.

- I forgot to mention that my actual setup are Mcintosh 2205 amp + Mc C47 pre + LEAK ST20 + Pioneer PD91 CD player + Technics 1200mk2 with a denon 301 MC cart.

- I listen mostly vinyl and Tidal.

[martin_wu99]

Well, thanks for your replies on this thread!

Some answers:

- I can't afford to have both. I have to sell the L65's to buy the 4430's

- At the time I had the 4425's also had L80t3, everything sounds better (for my ears and taste) in the L80t3, my amp at that time was a Yamaha CA2010, the lack of high frequencies in the 4425 was notorious, also bass was better in the L80t3.
Then I bought a pair of Yamaha NS1000 and I love the middle and high freq. but not the bass, so I finally get the L65, and I think are the most complete of all, more musical and great for home use.

- I know there are a lot of other options, but in my country its very difficult to find a classic JBL speaker

- I listen the 4430 for two hours at the sellers home and I really like it, I feel it more in your face sound, love the midrange and the soundstage, but I really worry about the high freq.

- I forgot to mention that my actual setup are Mcintosh 2205 amp + Mc C47 pre + LEAK ST20 + Pioneer PD91 CD player + Technics 1200mk2 with a denon 301 MC cart.

- I listen mostly vinyl and Tidal.
IMO,4430 is much better than L65, if you really worry about 4430's UHF,just add 077,there are many such cases on this forum

[DES-1]

If the L65's didn't stir your soul while being feed 200w/ch maybe it is time to move on. Are you sure they are healthy? The other factor is height. You need to get that midrange and 077 up off the floor.

[Dachox]

If the L65's didn't stir your soul while being feed 200w/ch maybe it is time to move on. Are you sure they are healthy? The other factor is height. You need to get that midrange and 077 up off the floor.

Yes they are very healthy and I got them 1 feet up off the floor.
As I said before, I love them, but I want to take a step up in my setup with the 4430

[Ed Kreamer]

As stated here you are dealing with two VERY DIFFERENT beasts. Full disclosure: I have never liked the L65. When I first saw it I thought It would be a 12" version of the L300. It wasn't. Ok, that said, I don't think you would be happy with the 4430. It takes a long time to change from a reproducer like the L65 to a more accurate speaker like the 4430. What did you dislike about the 4425? What did you like about the L80t3? Maybe you would be happier with a 4412. Or maybe building your own ersatz 4315. the l65 box could even be used the a different crossover. I'd consider the 4412 which is a pretty darn good speaker even after all these years. In any case you need to listen to the speakers side by side with your own material.

Have fun

Ed

[SEAWOLF97]

As stated here you are dealing with two VERY DIFFERENT beasts. Full disclosure: I have never liked the L65. When I first saw it I thought It would be a 12" version of the L300. It wasn't. Ok, that said, I don't think you would be happy with the 4430. It takes a long time to change from a reproducer like the L65 to a more accurate speaker like the 4430. What did you dislike about the 4425? What did you like about the L80t3? Maybe you would be happier with a 4412. Or maybe building your own ersatz 4315. the l65 box could even be used the a different crossover. I'd consider the 4412 which is a pretty darn good speaker even after all these years. In any case you need to listen to the speakers side by side with your own material.

Have fun

Ed

Just my $.02

Have owned L65, L80t (not t3) , 4412 , and MANY others.

The L65 seemed to live up to the "sizzle & boom" rep (did not seem "musical")
L80 was NOT impressive (despite having abt same drivers as 4410, that I did like)
4412 was pretty good , but designed as a horizontal speaker

I did a comparo and slightly preferred the L166 to the 4412, Also MUCH
favored the 120Ti over all of them.

HAD 4310b (not bad) and 4312 (DidNotLike-sounded dead)

Whatever you decide, AVOID the L56 :eek:

all run with same amp/sources etc.

[speakerdave]

After years of listening with Altec 604-8G's, which many listeners consider to have an unworkable upper midrange--I would now tend to agree--I used the L65 for a little over a year. I really wanted it to work for my diet of classical, jazz, rock, folk, international. The only way it came close was to toe them in so the axes crossed in front of the listening position; otherwise the hot midrange was endurable for only a short session. Besides that to me the bass never sounded like anything but a decent 12" doing what it could. (I had bought them on eBay without ever having heard them.) I moved on to LSR32's and then 4333A, 4345 tweaked with TAD midrange, 1400nd pairs with TAD treble, and finally all TAD. Later I came to understand, thanks to these forums, that the L65 was intended as a party speaker, which is to say, it was given enough extra midrange to be heard in a room full of talking people, none of whom are sitting in the sweet spot. It does that service very well.

I've listened to the 4430 only very briefly, but certainly agree with the above comments about the differences between that and the L65. Because of the similarities between the 4430 and 4425 I think you will feel the same way about them. I suspect you like a lot of midrange presence and extended HF, and want a better or bigger woofer. You probably need a three-way monitor, so many of the above suggestions will work. A large JBL four-way monitor could be your Shangrila. If you want to explore the special soundstaging of the 2344 in company with your other preferences, follow Ian and Guido with a custom built, biamped, 2235, 2123, 2344 with a TAD 1" beryllium compression driver.

You've been given a full range of solid ideas to consider. Obviously the realities of the market will condition the possibilities for you. Good luck with the search.

[markd51]

I own both a pair of the 4430. and as well have owned the L-65 Jubal since the day I bought them in 1974, I own 4 L-65 Jubals!

For close to 40 years I powered the L-65's with two MC-2105 McIntosh Amps also bought new in '74. I was going to buy the L-300, assume it was the first version since it had the 136A Bass Driver on board. It didn't happen. Bucking the tide, I liked the L-65 better in some ways versus the L-300.

Through the years the Jubals went through some transformations, had all 4 of their 126A Drivers reconed twice, All new custom made massive high quality X-Overs for all 4 made by Madisound to exact JBL Specs, all new Internal Wiring, new 100W Rear Mounted L-Pads, Edison Price Solid Copper Binding Posts all cabinets further internally braced.

They still sound very nice.

Forward to the mint pair of 4430 Speakers which I bought right here from a seller, and also got helpful assistance from another member here to have them shipped from Cedar Falls, IA, to Southern New Mexico via Truck Freight.

They are bone stock, and for a short while one of my MC-2105 Speakers powered them. I was not disappointed with the change from the Jubals to the 4430, there's that undeniable JBL House Sound, just more of it, and I particularly did not miss the absence of the 077 HF Drivers, and would call the 4430 lacking. Of course at 60 years of age at that point, my hearing is not bat-like anymore.

A couple years later down the road, and I upgraded Amplification to two brand new Bryston 7BSST2 Monoblock Amps. I felt the older Mac Amps were due for restoration at that point, neither having ever seen a shop in all those years, and also felt the MC-2105'also lacked sufficient wattage and headroom to properly drive the 4430 Speakers.

No, the "McIntosh Sound" was gone, but after a lengthy break-in of the Bryston Amps, they came around to strutting their stuff admirably, and drive the 4430's with authority with solid clean performance top to bottom.

My analog front end which consists of a highly modified VPI HW-19 Mk-IV Table, Audioquest PT-9 Arm (Jelco) and a ZXY Airy 3X Low Output MC Cartridge running into a Sutherland PhD Battery Powered Phono Stage gives superb analog playback, and I would believe that my Table and what I've done to it can hold it's own against Tables costing $1000's more.

Nothing seems to lack, high frequency detail is there in spades, with a CD-like silence of noise floor. Bass Response is respectable, even keeled Midrange response and very enjoyable, everything from Classical to Rock, and everything in between.

Sure, there's better Speakers to be had, if you have the vast amounts of money to spend, but the 4430 is a speaker I'll be keeping.

Perhaps not as revered as some of the large 4300 Series Studio Monitors, but I'd say JBL did a very fine job with the 4430 and its larger brother, the 4435.

[markd51]

If the L65's didn't stir your soul while being feed 200w/ch maybe it is time to move on. Are you sure they are healthy? The other factor is height. You need to get that midrange and 077 up off the floor.

As you know, the L-65 wasn't really designed to handle 200wpc but like virtually all JBLs they could play plenty loud being fed as little as 25-35 watts. For a smaller room they were fine, and in retrospect would have to say how loud does one need to go?

As for "whizz-boom" characteristics, yeah they could get too tizzy and forward with not careful tweaking of the L-Pads. I usually dialed mine no more than flat on both L-Pads, and sometimes even just a smidgen less on both.

Same with my 4430 Speakers, I run both L-Pads totally flat, and this seems to give overall best balance in my system. Same with my Mac Pre, rarely touch the tone controls. Maybe only at lower volumes might I dial up a little Loudness Compensation, or the Bass Dial just a tad.

Once I start ratcheting up the volume on the Bryston Monos, the bass and overall sound that the 4430 can provide is decent, and clean IMO. No, they don't go as low as some state of the art uber expensive monster speakers. Or as high as those which possessed the 077/2405.

One of the biggest downsides with such speakers as these two, and many others in the JBL family, were the Foam Surrounds. That sooner or later you will be replacing them, that's commonly a given and to be expected I guess.

Another minor downside with both L-65 and 4430 is their height. I always felt both benefitted by some degree of elevation.

The L-65 of course easier to deal with in this regard, whereas the 4430 is more difficult to handle-move, and do minor tweaking for positioning, becoming more of a 2-man job.

[SEAWOLF97]

Another minor downside with both L-65 and 4430 is their height. I always felt both benefitted by some degree of elevation.

The L-65 of course easier to deal with in this regard, whereas the 4430 is more difficult to handle-move, and do minor tweaking for positioning, becoming more of a 2-man job.

The L65's have that stupid little 3 sided riser platform. At about 3 inches, it didn't help much but did get in the way if you wanted to put the speakers on stands.

[Dachox]

Finally I sold the L65's and bought the 4430's!
I'm more than happy with the change and can tell you that is a giant step in soundstage, dynamic and imaging!

Thanks for all your inputs!!

[1audiohack]

Happy listening! (:

Barry.

[MikeM]

The newer horns on the 4430 are much better, so much they tried to eliminate the need for a tweeter. Much less beaming ect with the Buttcheeks. Ive had them both.
4430 will handle much more power. 4435 vote as well

[martin_wu99]

The newer horns on the 4430 are much better, so much they tried to eliminate the need for a tweeter. Much less beaming ect with the Buttcheeks. Ive had them both.
4430 will handle much more power. 4435 vote as well
Do you think that if 4430 adds a 077 will perform more better?:confused:

[speakerdave]

Do you think that if 4430 adds a 077 will perform more better?:confused:

Not sure if you are serious or if you are just being rhetorical. I think the designer would agree adding a tweeter misses the point of the whole effort, the benefits of which have been mentioned often. What has been said to solve the issue of HF response some listeners have perceived is the substitution of a TAD one inch driver, with high pass adjustments.

[martin_wu99]

Not sure if you are serious or if you are just being rhetorical. I think the designer would agree adding a tweeter misses the point of the whole effort, the benefits of which have been mentioned often. What has been said to solve the issue of HF response some listeners have perceived is the substitution of a TAD one inch driver, with high pass adjustments.
But to make system perfect,many people have added 077 on their system and are satisfied,such as 4435,S2600,S3100,S9500 :blink:
I heard someone here said that beryllium diaphragm is more better?:confused:

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi Martin,

I agree with Speakerdave.

Lots of people play around with Jbl original monitors and no one cares because it’s a diy project in the context of diy audio.

But asserting to make the system perfect and labelling various systems as improved is entirely subjective (not objective) and opinion from diy loudspeaker amateurs. That when read on a public forum or googled becomes a mis information and at worst a Frankenstein’s Jbl legacy which something to be to be avoided.

The more appropriate approach is to use the diy forum and refer to it as a diy project which it is.

Btw l used the 2344A horn with Jbl 2425 compression driver and Jbl network for years and it works exactly as the engineer intended. If anyone’s not satisfied it might be easier to buy a more contemporary Jbl loudspeaker like the 4367.

PS. I would suggest buying fresh diaphragms and ear waxing as a side option.

[martin_wu99]

Not sure if you are serious or if you are just being rhetorical. I think the designer would agree adding a tweeter misses the point of the whole effort, the benefits of which have been mentioned often. What has been said to solve the issue of HF response some listeners have perceived is the substitution of a TAD one inch driver, with high pass adjustments.

Why adding a tweeter will miss the point of the whole effort?and what benefits?:blink:

4430's high end is only 16K,why the designer sacrifice the high end purposely for what?

Could you explain it?

Thank you

[martin_wu99]

Hi Martin,

I agree with Speakerdave.

Lots of people play around with Jbl original monitors and no one cares because it’s a diy project in the context of diy audio.

But asserting to make the system perfect and labelling various systems as improved is entirely subjective (not objective) and opinion from diy loudspeaker amateurs. That when read on a public forum or googled becomes a mis information and at worst a Frankenstein’s Jbl legacy which something to be to be avoided.

The more appropriate approach is to use the diy forum and refer to it as a diy project which it is.

Btw l used the 2344A horn with Jbl 2425 compression driver and Jbl network for years and it works exactly as the engineer intended. If anyone’s not satisfied it might be easier to buy a more contemporary Jbl loudspeaker like the 4367.

PS. I would suggest buying fresh diaphragms and ear waxing as a side option.

Yes,a speaker product is just like a desiger's works,but if it is possible to be improved in the premise of not destroying the product integrity?
BTW, ear waxing is a new HiFi method that you have developed? :D