4430 review and or critique please

[SteveJewels]

My long term plan is to build 3 1/2 way speakers using 2235H/2123H/2446/Truextent Be/2380/2405. This is subject to change but I have all of the drivers excepet the 2123H's.

Short term I am thinking of getting some off the shelf JBLs that have some of these components or have cabinets that will accept some of them.

I ran across a pair of 4430’s which have the 2235H speakers. I can use them as is and then add the higher freq components and use just the woofers. I am looking for a review and/or critique of the 4430’s and perhaps ways to remedy any deficiencies they may have.

I did a search but have not really found anything yet. I will keep digging through the mountain of search results returned but if someone could point me to a tread, that would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

[Robh3606]

Have you listened to them?? They might surprise you. They really image very well on the low end the cabinets could be tuned a litle lower but they do alot right.

Rob:)

[turnitdown]

Depending on your needs and hearing, they may be all you need.

[Ian Mackenzie]

They were a good 2 way monitor back in the day.

The larger 4435 was far superior with the 2234H.

The 2235H with the mass control ring is a bit too heavy for optimal midrange clarity.

I found the 2235 with a 2123 with a 2344 bi radial horn very good.

[Robh3606]

2123 with a 2344 bi radial horn very good.

Yes indeed!

Rob:)

[toddalin]

And I know where you can get a pair of new old stock 2123Hs in the boxes in Los Angeles.

No affiliation, and please don't ask me to step in (too far). They have been trying to sell these for a couple years now and started at $300/pr. I've seen them list them for less (IIRC $150/pr and no price listed now), so... I think they are very motivated.

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/d/pair-of-jbl-2123h-midrange-10/6649110877.html

[turnitdown]

In no way do I want to derail this thread, so in an effort to contribute to the op's project, and/or ask a stupid question - has anyone done a crossover for the 2235, 2123 and 2344 with 2426?

[Robh3606]

I run an active set-up with 2235 subs E-145 midwoofers 2123 Mid and 2435 Coated Be on a PTH1010. The compensation on the horns are passive all the crossover points are active so 80Hz 300Hz and 1.5K 24 db L/R. Sounds good to me.

Rob:)

[turnitdown]

Sounds like time to go active. I like REW and Behringer. Any preferences.

The topic - 4430s would make a great base for your project and you might just keep them.

[SteveJewels]

Sounds like time to go active. I like REW and Behringer. Any preferences.

The topic - 4430s would make a great base for your project and you might just keep them.

Thanks! That was really what I was wanting to know and came to post a clarification. How good is the bass section, when used as such and crossed over at around 300 Hz?

As to a Beringer, they are not the best as to SQ. I have used a DBX DriveRack PA in the past. You might want to check them out. They have some newer models with better sampling.

For this project I have a Marchand 3-way crossover as I wish to avoid digitization. I built a turntable a few years ago and am looking forward to putting it back into service.

[SteveJewels]

And I know where you can get a pair of new old stock 2123Hs in the boxes in Los Angeles.

No affiliation, and please don't ask me to step in (too far). They have been trying to sell these for a couple years now and started at $300/pr. I've seen them list them for less (IIRC $150/pr and no price listed now), so... I think they are very motivated.

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/d/pair-of-jbl-2123h-midrange-10/6649110877.html

Nice! Thank you. They do look nice!

[martin_wu99]

My long term plan is to build 3 1/2 way speakers using 2235H/2123H/2446/Truextent Be/2380/2405. This is subject to change but I have all of the drivers excepet the 2123H's.

Short term I am thinking of getting some off the shelf JBLs that have some of these components or have cabinets that will accept some of them.

I ran across a pair of 4430’s which have the 2235H speakers. I can use them as is and then add the higher freq components and use just the woofers. I am looking for a review and/or critique of the 4430’s and perhaps ways to remedy any deficiencies they may have.

I did a search but have not really found anything yet. I will keep digging through the mountain of search results returned but if someone could point me to a tread, that would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
Hi Steve,

How are you, how is everything going?i haven't got your message for a long time,you want build a JBL speaker?maybe i can help:D

[SteveJewels]

They were a good 2 way monitor back in the day.

The larger 4435 was far superior with the 2234H.

The 2235H with the mass control ring is a bit too heavy for optimal midrange clarity.

I found the 2235 with a 2123 with a 2344 bi radial horn very good.

This is interesting Ian. I hadn't thought of it but it would make sense to try adding a 2123H and 2405 to the 4430. Maybe I would like the 2425H/2344.

That the 2235H struggled in the midrange is my reason for adding a midbase speaker, the 2123H.

Maybe this has a chance to be decent. :)

[SteveJewels]

Doing good Martin. Nice to hear from you.

Phase 2 of the project in Xi'an is delayed, still delayed. Not sure when it will resume.

Martin is a JBL fan/aficionado I met while I was working in China. He took me to meet several other people that are JBL fans. I got to listen to some amazing systems there.

[Ian Mackenzie]

This is interesting Ian. I hadn't thought of it but it would make sense to try adding a 2123H and 2405 to the 4430. Maybe I would like the 2425H/2344.

That the 2235H struggled in the midrange is my reason for adding a midbase speaker, the 2123H.

Maybe this has a chance to be decent. :)

The 2234H is a 2235H without the mass ring.

It’s a faster driver giving more clarity.

Still no match for the 2123 but that’s an extra driver.

Try 300 and 1000 hertz crossover points.

Leave the 2405 till later.

The best part of using the 2425/2344 is it’s an easygoing combo for first time diy loudspeakers

The narrow diffraction slot operates up to 16000 hertz.
The secondary resonance of the Titanium diamond surround is a mature solution without venturing into the complexity and costly UHF drivers. This horn as 100 x 100 dispersion.

The other more contemporary Jbl wave guides require additional EQ to smooth the response and there is debate in the diy space that a single compression driver can cover the top octave the way people expect it to.

My advice is to keep it simple and listen carefully. The curves and graphs don’t necessarily translate to a good sounding. loudspeaker. Some people put too much emphasis on perfecting a text book frequency response. The important thing is getting the crossover region right. You can use the 3135 passive crossover with the 2123H and Biamp the 2123H with the 2235H or the 2234H.

I ran this setup for a few years with Hovland crossover capacitors and a DIY Pass Labs SE Aleph 60 amp on the horns. It’s surprising just how good these vintage drivers can perform with top notch amplification. Today Everest DD67000 owners aspire to Pass Labs Amps on the horns.

[Robh3606]

If you go active with an analog crossover you are going to have to use the passive horn compensation built into the 4430 monitor. Unless you go digital none of the analog presets work anywhere near as well.

Rob:)

[martin_wu99]

Doing good Martin. Nice to hear from you.

Phase 2 of the project in Xi'an is delayed, still delayed. Not sure when it will resume.

Martin is a JBL fan/aficionado I met while I was working in China. He took me to meet several other people that are JBL fans. I got to listen to some amazing systems there.
Very nice! are you still in Xi'an or back to U.S?when will you come to Xi'an ?Xi'an is very hot these days,but i can buy you a cold beer:D
it is not necessary to add 2123 to 4430,but if you like 2344 horn very much,you can refer to 4341/4344/4344mkii,using 2344 instead of lens

[SteveJewels]

Unless you go digital none of the analog presets work anywhere near as well.

Rob:)

Sorry, I don't follow this part. What analog presets are you referring to?

Thanks!

[SteveJewels]

1audiohack

Thanks for the message. The system says your inbox is full.

Steve

[Robh3606]

Sorry, I don't follow this part. What analog presets are you referring to?

There are several analog active crossovers like the JBL M553, Ashly that have a CD preset option to add emphasis on the last two octaves or so to help flatten out the falling response of the driver horn combo. JBLs are set up by horn family so they are aproximations and not a true tailored driver horn solution like the 4430 passive network. Just fine for SR not what you want in a monitor of home listening.

Rob:)

[Ian Mackenzie]

In no way do I want to derail this thread, so in an effort to contribute to the op's project, and/or ask a stupid question - has anyone done a crossover for the 2235, 2123 and 2344 with 2426?


Yes
With a 2122H (2123H is similar)

[Ian Mackenzie]

My suggestion at this point is to acquire the 4430 as a base to your ongoing plans.

Get used to them and gain some experience with this type of monitor.

You may not wish to change anything.

If you decide to start on the diy thing and want to use the 2123H l can help you with a passive network or active.
PM me when you are ready to do that.

FWlW the 2344 bi radial used in the 4430 is far more appropriate than the 2380a as far as home HiFi is concerned.

The 4430 is a ready made solution that is a mature design and a nice entry into a diy loudspeaker if you decide to do that with excellent results. The thing is the network be it passive or active has to be done properly (or not at all).

[martin_wu99]

My suggestion at this point is to acquire the 4430 as a base to your ongoing plans.

Get used to them and gain some experience with this type of monitor.

You may not wish to change anything.

If you decide to start on the diy thing and want to use the 2123H l can help you with a passive network or active.
PM me when you are ready to do that.

FWlW the 2344 bi radial used in the 4430 is far more appropriate than the 2380a as far as home HiFi is concerned.

The 4430 is a ready made solution that is a mature design and a nice entry into a diy loudspeaker if you decide to do that with excellent results. The thing is the network be it passive or active has to be done properly (or not at all).

Totally agree with you:D
The question is Mr.Steve has got 2235,2123H ,2446 and 2380a horn in his hand,What should he do?:blink:

[Ian Mackenzie]

Keep the components

Use the 4430 as a point of comparison for any future diy project

Alternatively buy a pair of 2344 bi radials horns and a pair of secondhand 2426 compression drivers and new new D8R2425 diaphragms. The build a ft cu3 box
And sir the horn on top so he can try out the 2123 or the 2380a horns

The crossover for the 4430 is straight forward to build

[ivica]

My long term plan is to build 3 1/2 way speakers using 2235H/2123H/2446/Truextent Be/2380/2405. This is subject to change but I have all of the drivers excepet the 2123H's.

Short term I am thinking of getting some off the shelf JBLs that have some of these components or have cabinets that will accept some of them.

I ran across a pair of 4430’s which have the 2235H speakers. I can use them as is and then add the higher freq components and use just the woofers. I am looking for a review and/or critique of the 4430’s and perhaps ways to remedy any deficiencies they may have.

I did a search but have not really found anything yet. I will keep digging through the mountain of search results returned but if someone could point me to a tread, that would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

Hi Steve,
I have understood that you have 2235 bass driver, 2123 midbass, 2446 (Be,Trx) ,2380 horn.
From my point of view, you can start witn 2235 and 2446&2380 crossed round 800Hz, as JBL have done with 4331/4333, but a kind of UHF (2402/03/04/05) woud be needed due to the rapid attention over 10kHz can be expected from the Be Trx diphragm. If you, really, can not listen the speakers without 2123 you can add it in the way JBL have done on 4344MkII

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?24283-4344-Mk-II-network&p=243740&viewfull=1#post243740

May be some HF boost would be needed adding capapacitor over R10...

Regards
Ivica

[SteveJewels]

Hi Steve,
........but a kind of UHF (2402/03/04/05) woud be needed..

Regards
Ivica

As mentioned, I have 2405's.

I also have three pairs of horns.

I did have some large JBL horns, 30" mouth, until they were stolen.

About that time I decided on 2123's for the mid, crossing over at 1,500 or so. This will allow me to experiment with CD's and horns.

[Ian Mackenzie]

It will be fun.

Quite a while back did the same think with an RCF 3 way monitor.

I ended up using the RCF as lower mid range, a 2397 Smith horn on top and a 2405 under the lip. I had Altec woofers and used Crown active crossover.

I soon discovered what piston range accuracy was and replaced the RCF with an Audax high efficiency paper mid cone.
The 2397 was a big sound but l preferred the 2344 bi radial. It’s great on jazz.

Ultimately l went with the bandwidth limited approach of the big 4 ways.

The trick in the end is to obtain more than a wall of sound with large components in terms of sound stage depth and imaging.

[Robh3606]

The trick in the end is to obtain more than a wall of sound with large components in terms of sound stage depth and imaging.

Yes which the 10" 2344 combo seem to do very well.

Rob:)

[Ian Mackenzie]

I was thinking more about the large format drives & horns and the inevitable desire for more top end. The problem starts on paper and then becomes visual and let’s face it people listen with their vision (according to Toole c Harmon)

I was at a blues festival on the weekend and 10 feet from the stage and you can hear what you really should be hear from a drum kit. My impression is people have become conditioned to unrealistic amounts of HF detail when in fact the accuracy is missing or resolution and dynamics are missing further down near the fundamentals so they turn up the highs?

What l like about the 2344 is it does load down to 1000 hertz and the diffraction works up to 16500 hertz (100 x 100) because it was designed to do that.
Most of the PT wave guided only load down to 1500-2000 hertz

Do you need a horn below 1000 hertz? No not if you are smart and have the right drivers (ref Geddes)
Jbl Consumer do it because they have access to horns that are designed to do that. But the newer consumer system and the smaller Pro monitors are crossed over higher.

If you need better with the 2344a put a 1 inch Be Radian driver on it.

[Robh3606]

I was at a blues festival on the weekend and 10 feet from the stage and you can hear what you really should be hear from a drum kit. My impression is people have become conditioned to unrealistic amounts of HF detail when in fact the accuracy is missing or resolution and dynamics are missing further down near the fundamentals so they turn up the highs?

Hello Ian

Maybe have to think about that? I couldn't agree more about the lack of resolution and dynamics. I think I would way it more towards the dynamics. I have been doing a lot of small standing room only city shows and if you get in at doors you are right at the stage. Talking about drum kits saw a 3 piece with keyboards, violin, and a rather small drum kit. They were all set-up right at the edge of the stage and that kit was really something. The physical impact was really fun it was almost like you were getting hit. Have never heard any home stereo that can match that intensity.

Rob:)

[Ian Mackenzie]

I am in agreement

Interesting link below

http://www.zytrax.com/tech/audio/audio.html

FWIW a vintage EV FOH system was very good. At another stage an EV array was less good.

https://winterblues.com.au

[martin_wu99]

I am in agreement

Interesting link below

http://www.zytrax.com/tech/audio/audio.html

FWIW a vintage EV FOH system was very good. At another stage an EV array was less good.

https://winterblues.com.au

Someone has said that 4895 and SRX 738 are more lively than JBL monitor speakers, has anyone tried these speakers?:confused::dont-know: