I think its time to roll my own...

[mortron]

After having kept an eye out and missing a local pair of 4315's for a song, I came to the realization that a 43XX monitor will only materialize in my room if I build it.

There have been plenty of great DIY projects posted, and have had some great conversations with some members here. I heard a pair of what I believe were C60's - Similar to a 4350, yes? They were magic. If anyone knows Don Corby, his JBL creations are sublime and one of my favourite speakers.

I am craving those 18" woofers in the 4345 and some of the recent projects got me wanting again.

A member mentioned that we have come a ways since the 43XX were designed and that compression drivers and waveguide technology have resulted in the ability to run a woofer, mid and horn up top, without the need for a mid horn and super tweet. Is this correct?

At present I run a pair of L5's with a pair of 12" Infinity 1262w sealed subs crossed with an Ashly XR2000 3 way XO. It's great but I want bigger and louder. I am used to 15's and 18's in my open baffle rig, and find myself missing the scale. My plan is that although the 43XX had their own passive XO, I may employ the Ashly as it has been spoken about favourably here. As for amps I have a Crown XLS1500 and a pair of shelved Bryston 3B NRB's that may get sent to Bryston for a rehab, or replaced with something newer.

Seeing as the 4345, and 4350 are both on my radar, I can see that getting Original Cone drivers won't be easy. I feel like I would rather try to chase down two 18's than four 15's, seeing as cones will be the biggest hinderance. The 2123 looks like a good mid to use, as its spoken of highly, but worry again about cones. The scarcity of original JBL cones is what has me wanting to begin amassing my drivers ASAP, as they will only get harder to source.

So for the TLDR folks, I am looking to build a 4345ish clone, perhaps making accommodations for newer technology in the waveguide/CD area, and wonder what kind of advice/input you'd all have for someone who needs to start hoarding drivers? Any major design changes I should consider? Thanks in advance folks.

[Earl K]

( IMO ), you'll be hard-pressed to better Toddalin's approach ( in using eBay supplied drivers to create an effective 3-way with components similar to what you've described ).

The Heil can be swapped out for a Beyma TPL-150H (http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%20tpl150h-1.htm) ( assuming you want it cabinet mounted ).

( Of course ), you'll want to put your own stamp on how it all visually goes together .

His project is view-ableHERE! (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?40243-New-Project-Kickin-A-and-Taking-Names!)

:)

[DES-1]

Rather than worry about cones and drivers, I'd recommend figuring out what you think will really satisfy you in the present, and what you think the future will hold. If the 4315 strikes a chord, why not start there and evolve? But depending on your situation, you might want to go right to your dream speakers as the costs will pile up either way. I wouldn't design around speaker availability because over the course of a year or so virtually everything pops up for sale. But when they become available, you need to pounce on them. Go into a build with your eyes open by listing out the major parts and then researching sale prices over the last year. Then add a fudge factor to your budget.

In my opinion, it is way cheaper to buy a set of completed clones that building a set. The value of the clones is in the (hopefully) sorted out drivers and integration bits like crossovers. Clone cabinets are next to worthless unless they have some form of pedigree and even then they aren't worth that much.

[Ian Mackenzie]

After having kept an eye out and missing a local pair of 4315's for a song, I came to the realization that a 43XX monitor will only materialize in my room if I build it.

There have been plenty of great DIY projects posted, and have had some great conversations with some members here. I heard a pair of what I believe were C60's - Similar to a 4350, yes? They were magic. If anyone knows Don Corby, his JBL creations are sublime and one of my favourite speakers.

I am craving those 18" woofers in the 4345 and some of the recent projects got me wanting again.

A member mentioned that we have come a ways since the 43XX were designed and that compression drivers and waveguide technology have resulted in the ability to run a woofer, mid and horn up top, without the need for a mid horn and super tweet. Is this correct?

At present I run a pair of L5's with a pair of 12" Infinity 1262w sealed subs crossed with an Ashly XR2000 3 way XO. It's great but I want bigger and louder. I am used to 15's and 18's in my open baffle rig, and find myself missing the scale. My plan is that although the 43XX had their own passive XO, I may employ the Ashly as it has been spoken about favourably here. As for amps I have a Crown XLS1500 and a pair of shelved Bryston 3B NRB's that may get sent to Bryston for a rehab, or replaced with something newer.

Seeing as the 4345, and 4350 are both on my radar, I can see that getting Original Cone drivers won't be easy. I feel like I would rather try to chase down two 18's than four 15's, seeing as cones will be the biggest hinderance. The 2123 looks like a good mid to use, as its spoken of highly, but worry again about cones. The scarcity of original JBL cones is what has me wanting to begin amassing my drivers ASAP, as they will only get harder to source.

So for the TLDR folks, I am looking to build a 4345ish clone, perhaps making accommodations for newer technology in the waveguide/CD area, and wonder what kind of advice/input you'd all have for someone who needs to start hoarding drivers? Any major design changes I should consider? Thanks in advance folks.


Good advice in the last post.
The 2123 as a driver is not going to wear out as it’s got a pleated paper surrounds

My suggestion based on your comments is obtain a pair of 2245 from Edgewound, but a pair of 2123 off EBay then work on your own horn

An easy option is 2344a and a 2425

I ran rugs as a system and it’s very good.

You can then gain experience and evolve the HF from there while retaining the Jbl sound.

You can use your Ashley active crossovers for this.

The 2245 and 2123 work very well or the 2202 12 inch

I hope this helps

[mortron]

Thanks for the inputs folks.

I think the 2245/2123 combo is what I am leaning towards. Most of the 2123 drivers I see online look pretty beat on and always have numbers scrawled on the cones on the face of the driver. Always seems to be one seller doing most of the 2123 sales. Curious if anyone had tips.

I am looking into Edgewound. There may be a pair of 2245 in big enclosures around here. Dunno what a pair of reconed (factory cones) 2245 are worth these days and whatnot.

[macaroonie]

Always worth having a look here

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=jbl+2245

and for 2123

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=jbl+2123

or since you are going active maybe

these (https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=jbl+2251j)

might be an option. ( bargain )

I think that the suggestion of the Beyma ribbon has a lot of merit.

[DES-1]

Once you decide, take a little time to pick up the drivers. Interesting stuff regularly comes up for sale.

I was able to score 3 new in box 2123's last summer. A few NOS 2245's popped up in the last year but all needed more than foam refurbishment from age. Used original cone 2245's come up occasionally and in theory just need foam. I picked up a set of 2245's from CL via half day road trip that looked to have a decent recone job. The owner was motivated as there isn't that much of a market and were cheap enough that I can afford to run them as-is and potentially later send them out.

I think some of our fellow hobbyists in Europe have better access to the remaining cone kit stock. Think there are only a handful of people in-the-know about the situation. If you scratch up more kits than you need, please PM me!

[mortron]

Thanks for the tips.

I am a big fan of the JBL sound and like what I have heard. The legacy drivers like 2245, 2123 etc are well known to me and know they can still hold their own.

Did a little reading on the 2251j linked below and it looks a good driver too. Makes me wonder if chasing history is worth it vs using newer drivers to try to achieve something similar.

Wonder if trying a pair would be worth the effort or just stick with old glory 2123s... same for 2245 or get other 18s etc.

Plus as a bassist, an extra pair of 10's isn't the worst thing to happen to a guy hah.

[Earl K]

Thanks for the tips.

I am a big fan of the JBL sound and like what I have heard. The legacy drivers like 2245, 2123 etc are well known to me and know they can still hold their own.

Did a little reading on the 2251j linked below and it looks a good driver too. Makes me wonder if chasing history is worth it vs using newer drivers to try to achieve something similar.

Wonder if trying a pair would be worth the effort or just stick with old glory 2123s... same for 2245 or get other 18s etc.

Plus as a bassist, an extra pair of 10's isn't the worst thing to happen to a guy hah.

The 2251j was used in the 4348 4-way ( > an updated 4344mkII which had used the 2123H ).

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=58448&stc=1&d=1363780866

More 4348 pics HERE! (http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/galleri.php?do=viewalbum&albumid=124&albumview=1&page=7)

I'm confident either the 2123h or this newer model would work for your 3-way.

I do happen to love 2123's ( I own many ) / each & every time I use them in a pro app. they leave a smile on my face.

:)

[mortron]

Thanks for the tips.

I like the idea of the newer driver being superior in tech (if it even is), but is the 2251 a scratch on the 2123? Or is the vintage driver still the best to work with?

I know of a pair of 2245 with resonably recent factory recones that I may poke in on. Not sure what to offer for a pair that were reconed together - a bonus IMO.

Would a 2" driver necessitate the need for an UHF component to be added, making a 4 way?

I had read the 2407 was a decent driver to start with, but may be mistaken.

[Earl K]

Thanks for the tips.

I like the idea of the newer driver being superior in tech (if it even is), but is the 2251 a scratch on the 2123? Or is the vintage driver still the best to work with?

I know of a pair of 2245 with resonably recent factory recones that I may poke in on. Not sure what to offer for a pair that were reconed together - a bonus IMO.

Would a 2" driver necessitate the need for an UHF component to be added, making a 4 way?

I had read the 2407 was a decent driver to start with, but may be mistaken.

The 2123h is the safer choice of those two ( IMO ).

TS parameters show it ( the 2123 ) to have a slightly lower voice than the 2251J ( 230hz vs 290hz ). The 2122h was 154hz .

Yes, you'll want to add a tweeter if you move to a 4" diaphragmed compression driver ( IMO ).

:)

[mortron]

The 2123h is the safer choice of those two ( IMO ).

TS parameters show it ( the 2123 ) to have a slightly lower voice than the 2251J ( 230hz vs 290hz ). The 2122h was 154hz .

Yes, you'll want to add a tweeter if you move to a 4" diaphragmed compression driver ( IMO ).

:)

When buying 2123's online, what should one look out for? I have seen ones with grey and black cones, close and not close serials and DCR's... There are a few sellers with multiple pair, etc. Not sure what to pay or which to buy.

[Earl K]

The cone colors should look the same between the 2 ( for the sake of fashion ) , having similar DCR's, serial numbers don't really matter.

Black vs Grey is a tougher question, I'll need to look at a few of mine to decide if there's a "best" color to look for (I'm out of town till Monday, so that won't be happening soon ).

Apart from that you'll need to properly research whatever eBay seller you decide to go with to make sure you don't get any with rubbing voice-coils.

Being north of the border means there is no economical way to seek compensation if a purchase goes wrong.

( ie; shipping, taxes & duties aren't typically recoverable ).

:)

[Odd]

JBL 2123h

This is a seller I have very good experience with.

They have many pairs in stock and you get delivered what you see in the picture.

ebay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-2123H-Midrange-10-8-ohm-Speaker-PAIR-Tested-Matching-DCRs-4-6-4-6-4871/282952440827?hash=item41e1479bfb:g:d5oAAOSw0-Ba7Lpi)

[DES-1]

2123's are dirt cheap, actually insignificant in relation to the price of a decent build. Just have seller confirm that they are cosmetically identical (pics can be deceiving) and work well. Believe me, you will bleed allot more $ in a project build that the cost of a set of these.

[mortron]

2123's are dirt cheap, actually insignificant in relation to the price of a decent build. Just have seller confirm that they are cosmetically identical (pics can be deceiving) and work well. Believe me, you will bleed allot more $ in a project build that the cost of a set of these.

I got tons of dirt here... if u wanna trade for some 2123's... c'mon by! Actually i gotta pay to get rid of dirt sometimes LOL.

But I get your sentiment. I am on the fence on whether or not to just go full out or what. Taking my time could save a few $ or kill a project. Some cones can still be had out there for woofers and some can't. A quad of 2235 cones would set me back a good deal if I went with a 4350 type set up, and still need 4 pooched baskets... whereas I can maybe get the 18s for lil less if I find a pair in tact.

Did they actually make the 2123 cones in black at some point?

Why am I always 10 years late to a party? Heh.

[DES-1]

Why am I always 10 years late to a party? Heh.

Ya, me too. If it wasn't for the nostalgic factor, the smart man would buy a pair of 4365's or 67's and call it a day. Then again, the big leagues await if you have the itch.

You say you're still on the fence about what to build. I chose an 18" design because it diminishes the need of a subwoofer, but if you want quad that 4351 looks to be the ultimate imo.

I unboxed and mounted a new original stock 2123 yesterday. I imagine there was some variance over the years but this gives you a reference:

81606

[christo]

JBL 2123h

This is a seller I have very good experience with.

They have many pairs in stock and you get delivered what you see in the picture.

ebay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-2123H-Midrange-10-8-ohm-Speaker-PAIR-Tested-Matching-DCRs-4-6-4-6-4871/282952440827?hash=item41e1479bfb:g:d5oAAOSw0-Ba7Lpi)

It’s been my experience (10 pairs to date) that used 2123Hs never sound as good as a 2123 with a new re-cone. If the 2123 doesn’t sound right it will sink your hole project as it plays a very important role with the vocals and the smooth coupling of the woofer for good base response. (i.e. coherent bass)
After being disappointed with the first two pairs I now just buy an empty pair of baskets and have them re-coned. Just secure the re-cone kit before you buy the baskets.