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robertg
03-19-2018, 09:28 AM
What model/brand of active crossover is anyone using? There doesn't seem to be too many options, and they all are really expensive. I'm not sure I want to spend $1,000.00 on a crossover. I have a DBX Driverack PA2 and a couple of old 2 and 3-way DBX crossovers.

My other options would be to run one passive crossover, use a 3 and 2-way in series, or run two 4-ways in mono.

ivica
03-19-2018, 12:48 PM
What model/brand of active crossover is anyone using? There doesn't seem to be too many options, and they all are really expensive. I'm not sure I want to spend $1,000.00 on a crossover. I have a DBX Driverack PA2 and a couple of old 2 and 3-way DBX crossovers.

My other options would be to run one passive crossover, use a 3 and 2-way in series, or run two 4-ways in mono.


Hi robertg,

May be this can help (Xilica XP4080 as ab example):
https://www.amazon.com/Xilica-XP-4080-Outputs-Digital-Processor/dp/B019J5XJQI
Its S/N ration is very good, from my point of view.
Or You can try with two units: 3-way stereo that can work together so to rech 4-way stereo, such as a mentioned DBX Driverack PA2.

Using 4-way DSP driven can allow time compensation (alignment), that is not possible with analog type network.

regards
ivica

robertg
03-19-2018, 02:18 PM
The XP-4080 would suit my needs but not my budget. I also found a Rane AC24, Ashly XR4001 and a DBX480 which are also expensive.

I was thinking of running the DBX Driverack PA2 first and splitting the lower frequencies with a two-way DBX analogue crossover. This way the Driverack would still be able to control everything. The low and mid-low would be split at approx 200 HZ by the analogue crossover, and the Driverack first crossover point would be 1200 HZ. The low and mid-low would not need any time alignment because they are cones mounted on the baffle.

dubkarma
05-12-2019, 07:33 AM
A very tardy response to this thread, but something that's been on my mind lately.

The crossover, passive or active, is very close in importance to the speaker drive units themselves.

And, once one is "going active," so are the requisite measurement tools, such as the now-popular, and inexpensive, REW measurement software, a laptop, and the associated calibrated microphone.

$1000 is not an unrealistic investment for a good speaker processor such as a used dbx DriveRack 4800 or 4820 or, new, one of the Xilica models already mentioned. (There are of course other options.)

Quality drivers such as those made by JBL, Altec, Tannoy, TAD, etc. are not cheap. And we will not achieve anything like the quality of reproduction of which they are capable with second- or third-order quality crossover hardware.

robertg
05-17-2019, 06:27 AM
I wish I could have found a used DBX 4800 or 4820 for $1.000.00 They are more like $3,000.00 CDN. Running two crossovers in series is working fine for me, however my ears don't agree with the Driverack PA2 when it does a level assist and auto EQ. I end up turning the mids down and the bottom up.

Mr. Widget
05-17-2019, 08:11 AM
Running two crossovers in series is working fine for me, however my ears don't agree with the Driverack PA2 when it does a level assist and auto EQ. I end up turning the mids down and the bottom up.I don’t know anything about the “Driverack PA2’s” auto adjustment system, but even the very best auto calibration systems are only as good as the mic placement. Better systems average numerous measurements as no single location will every give you an accurate sonic picture, but even with numerous measurements, the locations are critical.

Trust your ears and feel free to correct the “auto correction”.


Widget

Ian Mackenzie
05-17-2019, 03:39 PM
What model/brand of active crossover is anyone using? There doesn't seem to be too many options, and they all are really expensive. I'm not sure I want to spend $1,000.00 on a crossover. I have a DBX Driverack PA2 and a couple of old 2 and 3-way DBX crossovers.

My other options would be to run one passive crossover, use a 3 and 2-way in series, or run two 4-ways in mono.

Please describe your loudspeaker system


Any active crossover is a cool 😎 way to do diy

It will sound between- okay and good in a sunny day scenario.

No amount of AI is going to replace the skill and experience of a world class engineer like GT when it comes to crossover networks.

If you are following a Jbl design Biamping would be a good place to start.

robertg
05-17-2019, 04:54 PM
Please describe your loudspeaker system


Any active crossover is a cool 😎 way to do diy

It will sound between- okay and good in a sunny day scenario.

No amount of AI is going to replace the skill and experience of a world class engineer like GT when it comes to crossover networks.

If you are following a Jbl design Biamping would be a good place to start.

The bottom end is 2-2226J up to about 300 hz, 2123H up to 1200hz, 2446 with a 2311 or a LE85 with a 2307 up to 8000 hz, and a 2405 on top. I change between the right and left horn once and a while. I'm also going to try a 2350 with a 2440 one of these days.

I think I would get board with a passive crossover.

Mitchco
05-17-2019, 10:01 PM
Robert - very nice! Are you into computer audio? If so, then I would recommend Audiolense XO (http://juicehifi.com/)as a "digital" XO that would run in a software music players convolution engine like JRiver Media Center or Roon as examples. The digital XO is linear phase and sum perfectly in the frequency and time domains. Additional to the XO, one can optionally time align the drivers, provide frequency and time domain (i.e. excess phase) correction.

I wrote a few articles on it here (https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/ca-academy/audiolense-digital-loudspeaker-and-room-correction-software-walkthrough-r682/)and here (https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/ca-academy/%C2%A0integrating-subwoofers-with-stereo-mains-using-audiolense-r712/). I upgraded the subs that went with my JBL 4722 and one can see the frequency and time domain correction here (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1214550-official-rythmik-audio-subwoofer-thread-1223.html#post57390652). Audiolense would have no problem with a 4 way system.

All the best,
Mitch

macsic
05-18-2019, 04:51 AM
What model/brand of active crossover is anyone using? There doesn't seem to be too many options, and they all are really expensive. I'm not sure I want to spend $1,000.00 on a crossover. I have a DBX Driverack PA2 and a couple of old 2 and 3-way DBX crossovers.

My other options would be to run one passive crossover, use a 3 and 2-way in series, or run two 4-ways in mono.

Hello,
First I am not a pro. After years with an analog EQ Orban674A, afterwards I used a passive JBL 3105 for the high in combination of the EQ. so I looked for a more versatile DSP for my 4-way project, I played with a pair of EV DX-38, I liked it but I was lucky to be offered a used XTA DP448 to an affordable price, I like it, believe me the sound quality is satisfactory. In my research I also looked in the new and the Xilica seemed to me the best choice of the moment.

ivica
05-19-2019, 03:05 AM
The bottom end is 2-2226J up to about 300 hz, 2123H up to 1200hz, 2446 with a 2311 or a LE85 with a 2307 up to 8000 hz, and a 2405 on top. I change between the right and left horn once and a while. I'm also going to try a 2350 with a 2440 one of these days.

I think I would get board with a passive crossover.

Hi robertg,

Very, very interesting solution, i have not seen such yet. As You have said, You can exchange 2446&2311&2398 with 2420&2307&2308.
Any of the combos operates from 1200Hz to 8000Hz. What is Your experience. Any differences ????


Regards
ivica

robertg
05-19-2019, 06:13 AM
The 1" horn has an aluminum radian diaphragm, and a metal McCauley 416 lens. The 2" is the original titanium diaphragm with a replica 2308 lens. To be honest, I don't hear that much of a difference. I like the 2" horn slightly better, but I can't say why.

I'm going to change over to a McIntosh 7108 multi channel amp to run the top and probably just use one RAMSA WP9440 on the bottom. Using two is overkill. I walked outside when it was playing at a moderate level, and I can't believe how much everything on the outside of my house vibrates. That can't be good for the house.

David Ketley
05-22-2019, 08:51 AM
The 1" horn has an aluminum radian diaphragm, and a metal McCauley 416 lens. The 2" is the original titanium diaphragm with a replica 2308 lens. To be honest, I don't hear that much of a difference. I like the 2" horn slightly better, but I can't say why.

I'm going to change over to a McIntosh 7108 multi channel amp to run the top and probably just use one RAMSA WP9440 on the bottom. Using two is overkill. I walked outside when it was playing at a moderate level, and I can't believe how much everything on the outside of my house vibrates. That can't be good for the house.

I don't know if this is any help but I run 4 way active with a Marchand XM44 3 way crossover, the Crown class D on the bass has its own crossover.

With the DAC having such a large influence on the sound I find I am getting some nice sounds out of my system.

robertg
05-22-2019, 04:47 PM
I don't know if this is any help but I run 4 way active with a Marchand XM44 3 way crossover, the Crown class D on the bass has its own crossover.

With the DAC having such a large influence on the sound I find I am getting some nice sounds out of my system.
I never knew an amp like that was available. What model of Crown is it?

David Ketley
05-23-2019, 12:48 AM
I never knew an amp like that was available. What model of Crown is it?

Its a Crown XLS 2500 not an expensive amplifier but it controls the JBL 2245s far better than my Musical Fidelity KW 500 did.

Another revelation one of my Yamaha M60s went faulty so in desperation I hooked up an old Denon RCD M37DAB unit, class D I think, onto the Beyma slot tweeters, 105 db and was very surprised at the clarity of the top end! Maybe I've got cloth ears and no testing equipment but I wonder if one really needs to spend vast amounts on high powered amplifiers when you are driving speakers Actively that are highly efficient?

1audiohack
05-23-2019, 08:40 PM
If youíre up to a swim in the deep end of the pool you can buy a used BSS160 well within your budget.

Imagineering really applies when youíre deep into these things with programmable logic objects and all the other tools available as drag, drop and virtual wiring.

There is a real learning curve as with anything this open and powerful.

Barry.

Ian Mackenzie
05-24-2019, 12:45 AM
Your direction or progression depends on "what" or the "reasons" for thinking about going active.

Are you just playing around for fun or looking to improve it.

If you are playing around then by all means go full active with anything you like because unless you have a bunch of expertise in the programming and a DSP system and experience in the theory and practical aspect of measurements its a very long road to audio nirvana and a short road to hell.

If you want a better sound go passive with the 2123H - Horn - 2405 using the 3155 equivalent crossover charge coupled you will be out of the blocks closer to a JBL designed and voiced system straight off.

Simply bi-amp the woofers to the 2123H with an analogue Bryston 10B or something of similar quality. Use the Mac on the mid, horn and slot and you are done. Game over.

DSP time alignment will only give you a time aligned response at one 3D point in the room.

Yes that's fact. Ask Wilson loudspeaker owners who have paid a fortune for a time aligned SOA loudspeaker.
One JBL engineer told be me the DSP crossovers used by JBL are rubbish in the context of SOA digital system required for a hi end home system. Yes that's what he said.

So go figure.

robertg
05-24-2019, 05:49 AM
I started this thread over a year ago when I built these speakers. Using a three way and a two way active crossover in series is working fine, but Iím always looking to change things. I might try making a passive crossover later in the year when Winter arrives, however I donít have the time now.

I was under the impression that an active crossover sounds better?