Authenticating a pair of 4343B's

[santashooter]

Hi there
Didn't know the right place to post this, but I am communicating with a person who is selling a pair of 4343B speakers.
I would like to know of more ways to authenticate the speakers based on pictures.
The situation: these are located in another country, 1500km away from me. They are fairly cheaply priced, but the seller is also a little quiet in terms of details (language barrier). But he is proficient with his camera. Because of weight and price I am going to pick them up myself, but I would like some pointers in terms of authenticating the speakers.

Is there/should there be a serial number for the enclosure (besides the foilcal?)
Any other thing to look for?

I just need to confirm they are indeed original 4343B's :)

[Goldjazz]

Hi there
Didn't know the right place to post this, but I am communicating with a person who is selling a pair of 4343B speakers.
I would like to know of more ways to authenticate the speakers based on pictures.
The situation: these are located in another country, 1500km away from me. They are fairly cheaply priced, but the seller is also a little quiet in terms of details (language barrier). But he is proficient with his camera. Because of weight and price I am going to pick them up myself, but I would like some pointers in terms of authenticating the speakers.

Is there/should there be a serial number for the enclosure (besides the foilcal?)
Any other thing to look for?

I just need to confirm they are indeed original 4343B's :)


I've got an original pair of 4343b's. If you upload any pics I (and others) can do our best to compare with what we have if you like. It's a little hard for me to see the back of mine but I'm pretty sure the serial number is not on the rear where the speakers connect or anywhere else besides the foilcal.

Regards.

[santashooter]

Thank you very much!
I am not much for sharing the pictures the seller sent me over email, without his approval, but I can use the pictures from his original listing:
https://www.audiowoof.com/images/oqerineqa1.JPG
https://www.audiowoof.com/images/epavepimi3.JPG

What I have gathered, so far:
- Picture of the correct crossover face on the back - with rotary switch for external crossover, and 4 speaker post - all the original JBL push posts.
- the drivers look right - especially in my focus is the 2121H, and the lens that looks spot-on original.
- The enclosure seems to be original, and with the imperfections expected of the original - the blue paint on the bass-ports, does mimic other JBL 43XX I've seen, also the blue paint chipping or falling off the walnut trim, caused by the front grille seems spot on as well.

From my own list, I need two more details from the seller:
- pictures of the two foilcals with Serial numbers, and a picture with both speakers in it - to validate there are indeed two different speakers (although the wear on the LF driver mounting kit, are different on the - pictures above, and that would indicate two different speakers)

Anything else I should be focused on?

The reason for my due diligence is that the country is Italy, and there has, unfortunately been a lot of scams and fraud with Hifi equipment in Europe involving Italy - this shouldn't prohibit me from doing business with this seller, who seems to be and have everything he claims - but before driving for 2-3 days for pickup, it is nice to know for certain:D

[BMWCCA]

I'd suggest what hostage-takers call "proof of life"—a photo with a copy of a current local newspaper in the shot with the speakers. My first concern would be whether or not any actual speakers exist at all and, only then, are they authentic JBLs. :dont-know:

[santashooter]

I'd suggest what hostage-takers call "proof of life"—a photo with a copy of a current local newspaper in the shot with the speakers. My first concern would be whether or not any actual speakers exist at all and, only then, are they authentic JBLs. :dont-know:
Thank you! - Good idea!

But if they do exist, and the seller is a stand-up guy, and they are too his knowledge original. Is there anything other than what I've outlined above, I should focus on, to verify that they are indeed original?

[Mannermusic]

Wow, 2-3 days? I'd wait and see - or do a clone. Thing is, no matter what, they are getting old and are going to need some work. Inescapable. So, I wouldn't rush. Also, parts are not easy to find. Not an easy choice. Good luck! Mike

[santashooter]

Wow, 2-3 days? I'd wait and see - or do a clone. Thing is, no matter what, they are getting old and are going to need some work. Inescapable. So, I wouldn't rush. Also, parts are not easy to find. Not an easy choice. Good luck! Mike
I was / or am depending on how this goes in the middle of a 4343 clone build. I have already used a lot of my money this month buying parts for the build (Lenses, LE85 and H91, 2123 for reconing into 2121's, cloth, veneer and crossovers), when suddenly a pair goes up for sale, for less than my total estimate in parts is. That is the reason for this thread, I have the chance of spending my money on a pair of originals instead of cloning the same thing.
However, because I've already spent a lot of money on the parts, im hoping nobody else snatches them before I get the next pay check and can arrange pickup:crying:

I hope I get to buy these, if not I have a project on my hands and that is going to be fun as well - but I am a originals guy, so I have no interest in modding/Improving the original build, hence this chance is of great interest.

[santashooter]

Are emblems like these also attached to a 4343, if it is original and stock?

80419
80418

[Mannermusic]

I was / or am depending on how this goes in the middle of a 4343 clone build. I have already used a lot of my money this month buying parts for the build (Lenses, LE85 and H91, 2123 for reconing into 2121's, cloth, veneer and crossovers), when suddenly a pair goes up for sale, for less than my total estimate in parts is. That is the reason for this thread, I have the chance of spending my money on a pair of originals instead of cloning the same thing.
However, because I've already spent a lot of money on the parts, im hoping nobody else snatches them before I get the next pay check and can arrange pickup:crying:

I hope I get to buy these, if not I have a project on my hands and that is going to be fun as well - but I am a originals guy, so I have no interest in modding/Improving the original build, hence this chance is of great interest.

Ah-hah - now I get it! I'm a museum presenter so I know where you are coming from. We have the original Jim Clark Indy racer and spent months just getting the decals right. It's a real challenge and fun - good luck! Mike

[Ian Mackenzie]

It’s a question of are the drivers “good” as in recones or non Jbl recones and of the compression driver and slot are good?

You need to see the foilcal of the 2405. If it’s removed or damaged that’s a problem

If this system has been recycled on eBay it’s likely the drivers are not original with the stock factory enclosure

The authenticity is much about the drivers foilcal’s serial numbers and the cone kits and diaphragms

Drivers can be fixed up as in refoamed or new diaphragm but you need to know if they have genuine jbl cone kits and diaphragms? The 2405s often have Chinese knock off diaphragms.

You don’t want Frankenstein woofers that are the basket of another model Jbl woofer.

Ask if the woofer has the original Jbl cone kit. Same with the 2121 and the compression driver diaphragm?

It will have Jbl markings on the under side of the cone

See if he will send you pic with the woofer removed.

You need to establish if the crossover is stock or has been updated?

If it’s not this do not proceed.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?36547-Terminals-connections-JBL4343&p=370561&viewfull=1#post370561

So l would ask for pics of the drivers on a table with a local newspaper

If not save yourself a long drive.

[santashooter]

It’s a question of are the drivers “good” as in recones or non Jbl recones and of the compression driver and slot are good?

You need to see the foilcal of the 2405. If it’s removed or damaged that’s a problem

If this system has been recycled on eBay it’s likely the drivers are not original with the stock factory enclosure

The authenticity is much about the drivers foilcal’s serial numbers and the cone kits and diaphragms

Drivers can be fixed up as in refoamed or new diaphragm but you need to know if they have genuine jbl cone kits and diaphragms? The 2405s often have Chinese knock off diaphragms.

You don’t want Frankenstein woofers that are the basket of another model Jbl woofer.

Ask if the woofer has the original Jbl cone kit. Same with the 2121 and the compression driver diaphragm?

It will have Jbl markings on the under side of the cone

See if he will send you pic with the woofer removed.

You need to establish if the crossover is stock or has been updated?

If it’s not this do not proceed.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?36547-Terminals-connections-JBL4343&p=370561&viewfull=1#post370561

So l would ask for pics of the drivers on a table with a local newspaper

If not save yourself a long drive.
Thanks Ian - good idea!

Do you know, if the 4343 enclosure has a badged like the one above? (from a 4333)

[BMWCCA]

Thanks Ian - good idea!

Do you know, if the 4343 enclosure has a badged like the one above? (from a 4333)

I think best case it may have the network serial number at the lower right corner of the input panel. I don't recall those rear cabinet badges being used that late.

As Ian said, I would assume if you have an original network, you likely have a real pair of original JBLs. Drivers can be swapped and copied but I have to believe the original network is likely the most difficult component to source or remanufacture.
:dont-know:

[Ian Mackenzie]

Only on the Lpad foil cal and on the grill cover

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?15165-jbl-4343b

You can actually buy those off eBay. Someone is making quality repo Foilcals and grill cover strips

[santashooter]

Thanks everyone for all the information and good tips!
Let's see if I am lucky!

Now it is just to keep the head clear and not start wanting the deal to be better than it actually is ;)

[Mr. Widget]

Thanks Ian - good idea!

Do you know, if the 4343 enclosure has a badged like the one above? (from a 4333)The badge you’re showing was in use in the ‘60s and likely into the very early ‘70s. Depending on when the speakers were built it may or may not have that badge on the back. By the mid ‘70s the 43XX series only had the model number and serial number foilcal on the baffle.

I’m not sure if the 4343’s were ever produced during the time period when they used the rear name plaques. Someone on the forum may have additional information.


Widget

[Ian Mackenzie]

If you shy off from the purchase l think we could get very close to the stock 3143 crossover

It actually doesn’t use tapped inductors.

All you need is to come up with a foil badge and l think that guy on eBay could be pursuaded to make some of those.

The actual electronics is a weekend job on the work bench with a soldering iron.

The metal enclosure could be fashioned from sheet aluminium and painted grey

I actual did a 3143 charge coupled design for a member last year.

The stock schematic could be laid out very close just like Jbl did (non charge coupled)

You could do the same with the rear plate

The Biamp switch is a multi pole rotary switch. They can be sourced.

If the stock box is in really good condition then that’s a win.

Something to consider before you pull the trigger

[santashooter]

Okay, the seller opened up the possibility of shipping the speakers.
If everything can be done via Paypal, it could be interesting going down that route.
But still, I need to cover my bases... Let's see what happens :)

[santashooter]

I have concluded this is too good to be true, and I am out of the deal.
The reason for my decision is a couple of things:
1. the price was VERY low: 2200 Euro, is very much below market price for an original pair.
2. Inconsistency in communication:while being very friendly and promising the possibility of pickup, and having a lot of detailed images, when it came to arrange the pickup the thread halted, indicating a wish to only deal via bank transfer - where I am not secured.
3. No Paypal - while I do understand a seller being sceptical in dealing with large amounts over a platform that secures the buyer.
3. I found the same images used in the ad, across a number of previous ads in Italy, France and Germany.

While there can be logical explanations to all the above, it is too great a risk, so instead I have decided to continue my journey towards building a clone.

I need a couple of things, the 2121 being the clear winner in terms of "hard-to-get'ness". If anyone has leads towards 2121A/H or C8R2121 kits, I am very interested.
I am balancing between aiming for 4343 or 4343B - I think the path will be chosen by what kind of 2121 mid-drivers I get my hands on. If I get 2121H, I will try to source 2231H as well. (Although that one is harder to find, than the 2231A :blink:)

Thank you all very much for the information in this thread, you're help has been very much appreciated.

When I get closer in the process, I will start a dedicated thread. :D

Thank you all again!

Best regards
Soren Iversen