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bubbleboy76
03-04-2018, 08:22 AM
JBL 4365-owners, please try this quick-fix, and see what you like it.

1. Disconnect UHF-drivers, or duct-tape over the UHF-horns.

2. Add +6dB PEQ at 32Hz. Q=2.

My theory is that you now have a speaker sounding close to JBL K2 S9900 in sound quality, maybe even better :)

(4365 UHF-driver causes comb-filtering, and the bass is voiced for Japan)

Already one 4365 user in Norway is stunned by step 1. in this hack.

hlaari
03-04-2018, 09:15 AM
JBL 4365-owners, please try this quick-fix, and see what you like it.

1. Disconnect UHF-drivers, or duct-tape over the UHF-horns.

2. Add +6dB PEQ at 32Hz. Q=2.

My theory is that you now have a speaker sounding close to JBL K2 S9900 in sound quality, maybe even better :)

(4365 UHF-driver causes comb-filtering, and the bass is voiced for Japan)

Already one 4365 user in Norway is stunned by step 1. in this hack.


the is not so much quality different between the parts in the crossover networks for S9900 and 4365
the are completely the same inductors in the low networks but S9900 have better capacitors in the networks than 4365 and that is the biggest different between them

I would never disconnect the UHF driver, I can not see how that would change or make the sound better, I think at the Everest owners have already try this and said at the UHF driver make some different to make the sound better
(bass is voiced for Japan) if the bass is voiced for Japan then all JBL speakers are voiced for japan?



Ari

Earl K
03-04-2018, 09:32 AM
JBL 4365-owners, please try this quick-fix, and see what you like it.

1. Disconnect UHF-drivers, or duct-tape over the UHF-horns.

2. Add +6dB PEQ at 32Hz. Q=2.

My theory is that you now have a speaker sounding close to JBL K2 S9900 in sound quality, maybe even better :)

(4365 UHF-driver causes comb-filtering, and the bass is voiced for Japan)

Already one 4365 user in Norway is stunned by step 1. in this hack.

Definitely sounds like my M.O. ( modus operandi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_operandi) ) .

Yes, tweeters can easily compromise imaging ( IME ) > though if the crossover point is kept really high then the damage is minimized ( above 10-12K ) and the smallest overlap possible ( to minimize comb filtering ) .

The problem is, not everyone is able to experience &/or enjoy good imaging from their systems ( for a myriad of reasons ).

Without that/ or some ( previous ) experience to go on ( & then locked into audio memory ) many just don't know what they are missing.

Bass response is a lot easier to personally gauge .

:)

Mctwins
03-04-2018, 09:39 AM
JBL 4365-owners, please try this quick-fix, and see what you like it.

1. Disconnect UHF-drivers, or duct-tape over the UHF-horns.

2. Add +6dB PEQ at 32Hz. Q=2.

My theory is that you now have a speaker sounding close to JBL K2 S9900 in sound quality, maybe even better :)

(4365 UHF-driver causes comb-filtering, and the bass is voiced for Japan)

Already one 4365 user in Norway is stunned by step 1. in this hack.

Hallo!

I have tried with number 2, it's ok, but I don't need it.

I don't have any combfiltering and it sounds better without this PEQ in my room...:)

For the moment I am driving my 4365 with Crown XLS2002, just for the fun of it and it sounds great. Full throttle here, as usual.

I agree with hlaari

Something to read....http://www.artalabs.hr/AppNotes/AP4_FreeField-Rev03eng.pdf

bubbleboy76
03-04-2018, 10:08 AM
the is not so much quality different between the parts in the crossover networks for S9900 and 4365
the are completely the same inductors in the low networks but S9900 have better capacitors in the networks than 4365 and that is the biggest different between them

I would never disconnect the UHF driver, I can not see how that would change or make the sound better, I think at the Everest owners have already try this and said at the UHF driver make some different to make the sound better
(bass is voiced for Japan) if the bass is voiced for Japan then all JBL speakers are voiced for japan?



Ari

4365 has no low-pass filter on HF. That is the difference. HF and UHF plays togheter 10KHz to 20KHz.

See attached pic of 4365 HF curve. It goes straight all the way up to 20Khz.

There is basically no crossover between HF and UHF in 4365 in the UHF-range. They play togheter.

bubbleboy76
03-04-2018, 10:14 AM
4365 measurements from Italian hifi-magazine.

Comb-filtering in the UHF range.

hlaari
03-04-2018, 11:27 AM
4365 has no low-pass filter on HF. That is the difference. HF and UHF plays togheter 10KHz to 20KHz.

See attached pic of 4365 HF curve. It goes straight all the way up to 20Khz.

There is basically no crossover between HF and UHF in 4365 in the UHF-range. They play togheter.


I think at they run the 476Mg all the way up to 22kHz in both 4365 and S9900, 045Ti-1/045Be-1 come in around 15kHz
I have no reason to not believe at Greg Timbers and JBL did not know what they were doing when they let the 045Ti-1/045Be-1 come in around 15kHz
I will more believe the measurement from JBL designers than the measurement from the Italian magazine

the room is everything, how you locate the speakers in you room, size of the room, materials in the floors and walls
I think at we can get the Japanese sound if we have the same size of tiny room they have



Ari

1audiohack
03-04-2018, 12:54 PM
Hi All;

My 4365’s are currently running without subs. I have settled on a 1.4Q 4dB boost at 49 Hz.

I have not considered running them without the UHF drivers.

I am intrigued with the idea of charge coupling them with hi quality caps though.

Barry.

bubbleboy76
03-04-2018, 01:45 PM
I am intrigued with the idea of charge coupling them with hi quality caps though.

Barry.

4365 crossover is already charged coupled (with diode). The power is taken from the LF-part.
The points "A" is where the charge is inserted.

bubbleboy76
03-04-2018, 01:48 PM
I have not considered running them without the UHF drivers.



It would take 10 minutes to try it with some tape, and listen to some songs. Please try it and give us your opinion.

1audiohack
03-04-2018, 01:54 PM
4365 crossover is already charged coupled (with diode). The power is taken from the LF-part.
The points "A" is where the charge is inserted.

Ha! That’s funny. I never even looked at them, I just assumed they weren’t. They sound so good I have always been inclined to just leave them be.

Thank you!
Barry.

bubbleboy76
03-04-2018, 02:00 PM
I think at they run the 476Mg all the way up to 22kHz in both 4365 and S9900, 045Ti-1/045Be-1 come in around 15kHz.


It is like that in S9900 (to my surprise) and Everest. But in 4365 the UHF seems to kick in earlier, at around 10KHz, when looking at the voltage drive from italian magazine. But the severe combs looks to start at close to 15KHz, yes.
I have actually not measured 4365 UHF acoustical magnitude response myself. Would be interesting to see some other than the italian ones.

hlaari
03-04-2018, 02:31 PM
It is like that in S9900 and Everest. But in 4365 the UHF seems to kick in earlier, at around 10KHz, when looking at the voltage drive from italian magazine. But the severe combs looks to start at close to 15KHz, yes.
I have actually not measured 4365 UHF acoustical magnitude response myself. Would be interesting to see some other than the italian ones.


the UHF driver come in around 20kHz in all of the Everest models and for 4365 and S9900 they come in around 15kHz you can find all of this in the specification for all models
it is strange at I thought at the UHF driver did not matter because he is crossed so high, but there is something he do to fill the top end sound

don´t be to worry about some measurement from this Italian magazine I think at the 4365 are great sounding speaker and if I had to choose between 4365 and 4367 I would choose 4365
way better high frequency driver I have tried the 476Be/Mg against D2430K on M2 waveguide with dsp and the 476Be/Mg are light year better
the 2216nd, 2216Nd-1 and 1501Fe are similar quality woofers



Ari

martin_wu99
03-05-2018, 12:47 AM
JBL 4365-owners, please try this quick-fix, and see what you like it.

1. Disconnect UHF-drivers, or duct-tape over the UHF-horns.

2. Add +6dB PEQ at 32Hz. Q=2.

My theory is that you now have a speaker sounding close to JBL K2 S9900 in sound quality, maybe even better :)

(4365 UHF-driver causes comb-filtering, and the bass is voiced for Japan)

Already one 4365 user in Norway is stunned by step 1. in this hack.
Really?that will be a big discovery,how about 4367?and 4338?4348?:blink:

baldrick
03-07-2018, 02:57 PM
Have also tried without UHF and must say that bubbleboy have a point. Without UHF many recordings is much more pleasnt listen to... I also feel that somethings is missing without but all in all I think I prefer without.

The other Norwegian that have tried the same have now also modified his stock crossover and acording Tonheim the Difference is huge. Caps was one thing but there were more to gain replcasing resistors!

I start to think that running My Crown DCI600n on 2 way 4365
without built in crossover might be an fun experiment :)

JimR
03-08-2018, 05:57 AM
Hi Guys,

Am enjoying this thread as I too feel that more could be coaxed from 4365s.

In particular, the DIY crossovers mentioned by Baldrick sound very interesting. Do you have any more info? Schematics maybe?

Jim.

baldrick
03-08-2018, 08:23 AM
The modified crossover uses Equal values but Components with better quality, i.e. the resistor, org vs New:

http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/vennetra-der-hifimerker/484409d1520449373-na-r-bare-12-eller-sta-rre-er-nok-tra-den-jbl-fans-b647dae8-e675-417d-bbf6-2f0266836475.jpg

http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/vennetra-der-hifimerker/484410d1520449373-na-r-bare-12-eller-sta-rre-er-nok-tra-den-jbl-fans-f189159f-57c9-4a87-8823-5bd50c9b3799.jpg

http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/vennetra-der-hifimerker/483442d1519930940-na-r-bare-12-eller-sta-rre-er-nok-tra-den-jbl-fans-fe6b4455-8856-4883-a424-1a0126dc33d6.jpg

http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/vennetra-der-hifimerker/483444d1519931992-na-r-bare-12-eller-sta-rre-er-nok-tra-den-jbl-fans-ec4443fd-11cf-4589-8415-0a1db9993861.jpg

The best solution would probably to also include a LP filter @ aprox 15k on the MF, maybe it could be copied from S9900 if it has a LP filter? Haven't checked....

hlaari
03-18-2018, 01:19 PM
I think at the best way is to change all capacitors in the high network not only two, if you are going to get best out of them
I see at this look´s like high end capacitors but the low quality capacitors are still left in the board



Ari

Fitero
03-19-2018, 10:36 AM
I had that thought as well when I pulled out the crossovers of my 4367's, but when I added up how much it would have cost me to get all of the values I quickly gave up. Some of those caps are also for the circuits that won't be active if not selected via the attenuators on the front of the speakers.

baldrick
03-19-2018, 11:32 AM
The most important parts is the 2 caps in series and also the resistors in use (you don´t have to replace all 5 connected to the switch). But since the network is CC replacing the caps with better is probably not equal important that it would with a none CC network.

hlaari
03-19-2018, 01:22 PM
I had that thought as well when I pulled out the crossovers of my 4367's, but when I added up how much it would have cost me to get all of the values I quickly gave up. Some of those caps are also for the circuits that won't be active if not selected via the attenuators on the front of the speakers.


I bought all the capacitors new from Jantzen in Denmark and believe me they are not cheap:eek:
but the different in sound quality are there also



Ari