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Bill H.
12-21-2004, 11:31 AM
I noticed on the market place forum about 4350's on e-bay in germany, some comments about them being too big for most rooms. Back in the mid 60's there was an audio recording pro in our small town who had a living room in his shop that was no bigger than 14x24 or so with a work space beyond that. In it he had two Electro Voice Patrician 800's with a couple of JBL c50's on top of those. I remember a McIntosh and I believe a crown amp etc. I was too young to really care about the paticulars at the time, but the sound and feeling of that room was amazing. I still have his Mac 2300 and the c50's. Can anyone please comment on how he might have accomplished this. Been out of all this for some time, but need a new hobby,

Mr. Widget
12-21-2004, 11:41 AM
We are almost always kind to newbies.... almost.

Welcome aboard!

"Can anyone please comment on how he might have accomplished this."

I am not sure if you mean how he accomplished this technically and want to know how one would connect several speakers and amps or if you mean how could he get good sound out of so much gear in a relatively small room.

The connectivity is pretty straight forward. How to get good sound out of that gear in a confined space or any space is purely subjective. I know I would not consider a system like that as "High Fidelity" by today's standards. A wall of sound like that is some people's ideal, but a simpler system will generally sound "better" to most people.

Widget

Ken Pachkowsky
12-21-2004, 12:04 PM
We were all newbies at one time...no worries.

I run my Westlakes in a room about the same size as that.

I too had a Mac 2300 at one time. Its a brute at 128 pounds.

You will enjoy the forum.

Ken

scott fitlin
12-21-2004, 12:31 PM
Welcome to the nut house! MC-2300? We have a room right this way sir, you qualify for admission!

Your in the right place!

:D

Bill H.
12-21-2004, 01:01 PM
Ran back in house from town and very grateful for responses so soon! Have't got time as I am back out in a hurry, but my questions could go on forever. Won''t put you through that though. Again, thanks very much for this valuable forum. Bill from southern Illinois.

Don McRitchie
12-21-2004, 01:04 PM
Welcome aboard Bill.

The biggest advantage of large speakers (particularly large JBL's) is their maximum output. For example, the twin 15" woofers of the 4350 that you mentioned were primarily incorporated to achieve a 3db increase in sound pressure levels compared to the single bass driver monitors. Contrary to some misconceptions, it was not to extend bass response to the lowest octave. The much smaller 12" woofer 4315 had almost the same bass extension.

Two of the side benefits to JBL's approach to maximum output are unparalleled dynamic response and freedom from dynamic compression. In home use, you would never take advantage of the 120db output of a large 4350. However, the dynamic characterisitics would be audible even at lower volumes. I would suggest that this, more than anything, is what drives members of this forum to large JBL's.

There are tradeoffs that result from placing a large monitor like the 4350 in a home environment. The sheer physical size restricts their placement. You can't easily move them out into a room to minimize boundary effects (bass reinforcement from adjacent walls). Therefore you can end up with an artificially boomy response under some conditions. Placement near boundaries can also cause degradation to the HF and midrange response due to reflected sound interfering with the direct sound causing peaks and dips in the overall response. The size of a 4350 type system also dictates that there has to be significant physical separation between the individual drivers. The listening position has to be farther back than with a small system for the ear to perceive the sound as being coherent. Otherwise, the ear can pick up sounds from individual drivers as coming from different locations.

In summary, small rooms in and of themselves, are not necessarily the problem (although many are). It's more that your options to mitigate room/speaker interaction problems are far more restrictive, and in many cases, it is not possible to develop a viable solution.

4313B
12-21-2004, 02:09 PM
The smallest space I ever listened to a pair of 4350's in was a friend's bedroom. He still lived at home with his parents so his bedroom was the only place to put them. Sometimes a person just has to make do. :) At the time it seemed only natural to use them like a pair of headphones but I'm sure I wouldn't think so now. :p

Ian Mackenzie
12-21-2004, 10:23 PM
The smallest space I ever listened to a pair of 4350's in was a friend's bedroom. He still lived at home with his parents so his bedroom was the only place to put them. Sometimes a person just has to make do. :) At the time it seemed only natural to use them like a pair of headphones but I'm sure I wouldn't think so now. :p
Hell that was my introduction to real hifi in the early 70's. Every Saturday night we'd migrate to a friends bedroom like groupies for a listen to a set of Jenson 6's and later Maggies driven by a 700B with a Sugden Pre and AR TT.
Its sounded so good we never had to roll a joint to get off.

My diy 4343 bi amped in 1980 only won Dad's approval to move them out of the bedroom and into the lounge room because they really boogied playing "Daddy Cool" & "James Brown" when he had a party bash.

As Dad would say, son we have ignition and I think that kinda stuck with the JBL slogan "nothing even comes close".

Ian

Guido
12-22-2004, 03:33 AM
Its sounded so good we never had to roll a joint to get off.:scold:
I don't believe you!

Ian Mackenzie
12-22-2004, 04:25 AM
:scold:
I don't believe you!
Well maybe just one puff of hooch.:o

Ian

scott fitlin
12-22-2004, 08:53 AM
Well maybe just one puff of hooch.:o

IanIan, you guys smoked the WHOLE bag while listening to Dark Side of the Moon!

You know you did!

:rolleyes:

Robh3606
12-22-2004, 10:22 AM
Hello Bill

We always try to be nice.


"Ian, you guys smoked the WHOLE bag while listening to Dark Side of the Moon!"

You should have said ALL the BAG's. They probably each had one:hyp:

Rob:rockon1:

scott fitlin
12-22-2004, 10:50 AM
:rotfl:



:happyh: :sleigh:

Mr. Widget
12-22-2004, 10:55 AM
I hope you didn't inhale, polyethylene fumes can be hazardous to your health.

Widget

scott fitlin
12-22-2004, 11:00 AM
I really wish I was were Ian is, after the nice temperatures we had here in NY on Monday!

:cool:

Ian Mackenzie
12-22-2004, 12:21 PM
Well we all know how to be happy now.LOL

I have two more days work, it was 25 c on the beach yesterday..nice, today sunny and warm.

Ian

scott fitlin
12-22-2004, 12:53 PM
Well we all know how to be happy now.LOL

I have two more days work, it was 25 c on the beach yesterday..nice, today sunny and warm.

IanWell, Crocodile, I think you should throw another shrimp on the barbie!

:rotfl:

Bill H.
12-23-2004, 10:39 AM
Back in 1976 I bought an old tavern in small town nest door. 40x 70 concrete floor and block walls. A friend told the man I mentioned earlier it would be impossible to put me in a sterio so that got him going. Again, I was only 23 and still partying and too ignorant to pay attention. He hung two big Altec speakers in the rear and some sort of clones of the JBL 100's in front. It was the greatest thing anybody around here was accustomed to. As in my first question about his house I wonder how this could be equalized and tuned to fit the situation. I remember him bringing in microfones and some sort of pink noise?, thingy. The heck with a juke box. People loved the free music and bring in their own. Trouble was I had to re record theirs to sound good on this system. Beer splatterd car cassetts just did not get it.
Thank you and I will post anything else like this on a more appropriate board.

Bill [ still likes the older stuff ]