What should I build, 2225h,2234h,2226j,denovo dna360+seos 15

[Mrmky]

I hope I’m in the right place. A good friend has a setup with 4343 monitors that sound amazing. I’ve been listening to a pair of Altec 605a duplexes that I really like, they just don’t seem quite in the 4343 league. I built the cabs for the 605’s, and several subwoofers, so I’m fairly confidant in my carpentry skills.

I got a 4648a cab from a theater remodel with a very nice pair of 2226j drivers in them for a steal and that got me thinking. Then I stumbled across a few home theater type builds with the Denovo dna360 cd and Seos wave guides coupled with 2226j/h drivers. Then a pair of 2225h popped up locally for $30 each that need reconed. My thought now is to get them done with 2334/5 cones and do a dual 15” alignment. 2235/4 from 30-80, 2226 from 80-1000, and the cd up top.
I’m hoping somebody with more experience might chime in? Is this a good direction to take? I’ve done a lot of reading the last few weeks and so far it seems workable.
As for the reconing , it seems the consensus here is to get it done by a JBL service center? A big part of my enjoyment of this hobby comes from the hands on and constant learning. From my research this doesn’t seem like anything I’d have trouble doing myself. Are the aftermarket kits really a huge crapshoot as far as replicating factory specs?

Sorry for for the long winded first post, thanks in advance for any help and advice offered!

[Mr. Widget]

As an “experienced” hobbiest who has built hundreds of unique speakers over the decades, my recommendation is to carefully clone an existing design if you don’t have the time and budget to throw out a handful of cabinets/mods and end up with a pile of spare drivers in your search for the successful design.

That said, if you want to dive in and are prepared to spend the time and money to develop a successful custom design, it is a heck of a lot of fun to take the journey.


Widget

[Mrmky]

Learning is half the fun! These are going to be long term keepers, not fix and flip. I don’t mind updating or changing the design along the way to get the most out of it. I guess I was looking for some reassurance that the path I was thinking wasn’t doomed from the start by poor component choice or unrealistic expectations.

That said, this is a more ambitious project than any other I have started so far in hi-if. I just received a umik so I can start learning how to take some measurements.

[1audiohack]

Hi Mrmky;

The following is based on the assumption that this will be a domestic sound system.

A big issue I see is trying to use all your 15’s. The 2226’s are super tough drivers designed for the rigors of PA. Good drivers for sure but JBL never used them in a domestic or studio monitor application.

The 2234/2235 is a better sounding driver. It naturally plays an octave lower than the 2226 and sounds cleaner pretty much everywhere. JBL used this driver in home and studio.

Even though the 2235 will easily play sub woofer frequencies is really is a high fidelity woofer and has limited coil/cone travel and can be overdriven fairly easily with amplifiers available today.

My suggestion is use 2234’s with the comp drivers and horns and if you find you need more LF, build/buy some real subs.

All the best!
Barry.

[Ian Mackenzie]

If you search done if the seos threads on the seos forum do
Some guys have already engineered good crossovers

I would talk to them as they have done the hard work already

But the seos wave guide is not the be all and end all

A lot depends on your room and if you want music or HT

Those seos work best in the corner btw

The genuine Jbl 2234 recone kit is the way to go 2235 without mass ring)

Then add an active crossover and try various horns atop

By a 1.5 or 2 inch driver and a true tent be diaphragm and taste test sone horns

No need to complicate it as a three way

[Lee in Montreal]

I wonder what the OP has in mind for the upper range and if he wants to build a two, three or four-way system. Running w/ passive crossover or going active with digital processing? Please. let us know.

[Mrmky]

Intended use is home theater/music, probably a pretty even split. I haven’t really decided one way or the other as far as going active or using a passive crossover. I know there are other horn/waveguide combos that will outperform the ones I have chosen, but nothing close to the price point of the Seos. I seem to sink further down the rabbit hole every year and have no doubt I’ll end up exploring other options eventually, but this seemed like a solid place to start. The dual 15 approach just seemed/ looked so badazz I can’t help but think about doing it. I’m also aware of other similar builds and may put out some feelers for some proven crossover designs, or I might play for a while and see how close to optimal I can get on my own first.

Eventually they will go in a theater room that is about 13x 19 with an 8ft ceiling. My understanding is that the waveguides will help eliminate some of the floor and ceiling bounce and help create a large sweet spot for listening? I’m also hoping the 15s will help get some good chest thump and impact which is very lacking on the 6.5” two ways I’m using for movies right now.

[Ian Mackenzie]

There are already published passive crossover for the dna 360 for the seos wave guides elsewhere do l am not sure of the purpose of your thread here?

So unless you can provide measurement data it’s impossible to provide accurate advice as l doubt anyone here on the Lansing forums has had any significant experience with the seos wave guides

[Mrmky]

Because there seems to be a lot more experience here than other forums concerning JBL, after reading a lot of posts on several forums I ended up coming back here more and more often. I’m just getting started in this hobby, but I’m already 47 and would rather not waste too much time and energy and money buildng projects I think would be cool but never had a chance because of poor component/ design choices. I enjoy seeing how other people have designed and built their projects and imagine there are others like me who do the same. Isn’t that what a diy forum is for? Is it some kind of faux pass that I chose a non-JBL wave guide and cd?

I really appreciate the input from everyone who has provided it so far, your experience and willingness to share is helpful.

[Ian Mackenzie]

“Widget
As an “experienced” hobbiest who has built hundreds of unique speakers over the decades, my recommendation is to carefully clone an existing design if you don’t have the time and budget to throw out a handful of cabinets/mods and end up with a pile of spare drivers in your search for the successful design.

That said, if you want to dive in and are prepared to spend the time and money to develop a successful custom design, it is a heck of a lot of fun to take the journey.”

Your right there is experience and we have given you advice

It’s bit like asking us to pull rabbit out of a hat

Reading about what someone has done is easy but if it’s not specific to your plans you need to go and do some homework

The advice is spend a bit more money on a measurement kit

Then you wil be on the road to understanding the hobby

Typically you could buy the measurement kit and the active crossover

(It’s not obvious but almost every Jbl driver not designed for pa use was specifically manufactured for each Jbl or pro studio or consumer system )

Then put in a simple rc network before the driver with some attenuation to equalise the Seos wave guide

You could do this bit emperically but without an active crossover it would be too difficult

[Mrmky]

I have purchased a umik thinking that it would enable me to take measurements and that in conjunction with REW I would be able to analyze and make changes that weren’t a shot in the dark? If this is not the case what else is required for measurement tools? I enjoy building things and learning and had thought I was covering my bases. I don’t mind building a few test cabs along the way in the process if that is needed. Apologies if my last post came across as snippy.

Now that I have all the drivers and waveguides in hand I’ll start on the first test cab as soon as the holiday chaos settles back down. If I need different measurement tools, I’m willing to invest in them. I’ll be playing in this hobby for a long time and have no doubt that many more projects will come along.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I have had a look here

http://libinst.com/SEOS/SEOS15/SEOS15%20TD1M%20redo/TD15+SEOS15%20design.pdf

http://www.libinst.com/what_makes_a_speaker_sound_good.htm

Before you go further jump on this and message Bill Waslo for detail of the seos 15 dna360 using the jbl

I recall he covered the 2226 in a variation

This will save you a heap of development time and effort

You can then Focus on construction knowing an expert has validated your design

I suggest this is your best pathway to success as Bill is very experienced in both passive crossover optimal design with the seos wave guides

[Mrmky]

Thank you very much! I hadn’t seen that yet. I also have been in contact with Matt Grant(mtg90) on another forum who is also a speaker designer and offered to forward plans for a 2226h + Seos 15 dna 360 combo. After reading posts here and in several other threads as well it sounds like the 2234 might be a better fit? I have unfortunately not heard either driver yet. I should be making sawdust within a week or so, thanks again for the crossover link.

[Ian Mackenzie]

It’s about the right application

The 2226 is a pa driver

Talk to the designer of the seos crossover and explain what you are doing. Have you heard an seos have guide previously?

Have you heard a 4435 monitor? It used a bi radial horn with 100 x100 dispersion

The way the seos wave guide works is not dissimilar but the seos has a narrower vertical pattern

If not l recommend you make up a pair of modular test boxes initially for evaluating the woofer and the seos

One key factor on the suitability of the seos will be the room and location of the enclosure?

Generally an seos type waveguide is located in the corner toed inward

Does that work for you?

Talk to the seos users about their experience?

When they cooked the seos up it was seen as the be all and end all wave guide

Talk to users

I have no experience with it

Looking at the earlier mentioned approach of the 2235/2123/seos 3 way it has a lot more moving parts, more complexity and you need to have a degree of diy speaker building experience, an understanding of crossover design applications and the measurement test tools to make it worthwhile.

Unless you intend to follow a proven design very closely it’s wise to keep your own diy project as simple as possible.

Putting a loudspeaker together for the first time is a learning curve. Building a proven design can be very challenging. Even with documentation, plans, crossover schematics, parts list, FAQs and technicial support it can be difficult as you are dealing with a lot of unknowns in unfamiliar territory. You have also made a financial commitment to your project.

I plan to host some face book group type webinars in the NY for those who are beginning and experienced users who are considering building, upgrading and setting up some of the more complex Jbl Pro studio monitors.

The experienced diy speaker builder can bypass a lot of crossover complexity if he has access to an adjustable active crossover. That will get you a working outcome but there is still a lot of trial and error work to be done.

I plan to make available a high quality analogue active crossover with internal adjustments for the advanced diy speaker builder next year. Details will be forthcoming in the NY.

My advice is talk to Bill about the Clio lite. You will learn a lot with that and grow with the hobby

Also acquire some speaker building books. Amazon is a good place for that

[Ian Mackenzie]

Sorry about all the edits

From a caravan park with 1 bar on the iPhone...lol

[Ian Mackenzie]

In the link l posted above the crossover used the AE15M and the De250, not the Jbl 2226 or the dna360

Looking at specifics the AE15M driver has similar sensitivity to the 2234 but the similarities end there .
(The 15M is an Altec416 on steroids. Excellent Low Xmax mid bass woofer )

The crossover schematic overall will be similar overall but the values adjusted for the 2234 woofer electro acoustic parameters and location of the seos 15 by Bill or Greg.

(If you plan to use a pair of 2234 per enclosure the helper 2234 has a simple low pass filter around 100-150 hertz
The bass reflex box tuning is over damped at around a low 26 hertz so when both woofers “add” together below 100 hertz you end up with a flat low end to 30 hertz @ 96 dB sensitivity).

You also have the displacement of dual 15 inch drivers reducing harmonic distortion at low frequencies

The high pass filter may also need adjustment for phase tracking and level matching

I would place the seos atop the main enclosure initially so you can adjust the location of the acoustic centre

You will also have the option of easily changing out the seos if you want to trial other horns and drivers. This way you can progress over time with changes to the Hf horn/ driver combo