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Laketown
12-17-2004, 12:44 PM
Hi,

I have just bought a pair of L220 and I'm trying to find some information about these lovely speakers. Can you help me with some kind of diagram with the frequence range +-db?
Is it difficult to change them to Biamping??

Thank You
Mikael (Denmark)

Zilch
12-17-2004, 01:09 PM
L220 Oracle is comprised of LE14A woofer with PR15C passive radiator, LE5-9 midrange with rare and fancy L94 lens, and prized 076 Elliptical tweeter.

Crossovers at 800 Hz and 5000 Hz.

N220 crossover topology looks easily separable on the shematic.

Alas, most of us have been locked out of the JBL Consumer tech database.

[There's still hope, tho....]

Brochure is in the Library here.

Steve Gonzales
12-17-2004, 05:38 PM
Hi Laketown, I own three pairs of these speakers and have posted info on a great modification :http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=3458
It is completely reversable and makes a DRAMATIC difference in the midrange quality. I have got so many truely great technical suggestions from fellow members that if you decide to do this mod, I/they have already laid the groundwork for it. JBL has always been careful and vague about specs at least for consumer models so not much info in the way of stated frequency response. You have something special there (IMHO) that will give you many moments of pleasure. I hope to see some pictures and posts about your bi-amp project. Good luck and Good Sound to you, Steve G.

Mr. Widget
12-17-2004, 05:47 PM
Can you help me with some kind of diagram with the frequence range +-db? I believe the official specs say: DC to Light... I am not sure what the tolerance is. Heck I am not even sure what units the tolerance would be in. :D

Sorry I couldn't help myself. I really doubt that there is a published specification for that speaker. Here are the typically vague but mostly true specs that are given.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1979-l220.htm

Widget

Don C
12-17-2004, 06:04 PM
And here's the tech sheet, in case you need it.

Zilch
12-17-2004, 10:22 PM
And here's the tech sheet, in case you need it.
Steve will note the footnote under the schematic there.

OOPS! A different thread.... :p

Laketown
12-19-2004, 03:14 PM
Hi Steve. I have seen your pics and I would love to do the same to my speakers, but I think I'll wait some months so I can "learn" the sound from the original version before I can tell if a modification has improved the speakers.
Actualy I think they sound great now compared to my B&W 801 series 80 (modified)

Don thanks a lot for the tech sheet. I hope I'm wrong but it looks like the tweeter only goes up to 3000hz http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/confused.gif

My plan is to use a bridged "digital" power amp from LCAudio (+1000watt 8ohm) http://www.lcaudio.com/index.php?page=35 to control the 14" and a normal bridged Millennium XP power amp (+400watt 8ohm) also from LC for the mid and top. http://www.lcaudio.com/index.php?page=31
I' have an active X-over (http://www.lcaudio.com/index.php?page=13) that I currently use for my B&W's.

I'm not sure that the modifications done on my B&W's has changed the soundstage to the better. That's why I'm a little afraid to do modifications on the 220L's http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/scratchchin.gif

Please give me you opinions/input/ideas !!!

Great forum http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/thumbup.gif
Thank you

Don C
12-19-2004, 03:52 PM
Don thanks a lot for the tech sheet. I hope I'm wrong but it looks like the tweeter only goes up to 3000hz http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/confused.gif I am certain that the frequency response of the tweeter is much better than that. I think that they have provided those numbers because they want you to sweep over those frequencies while tightening the screws when you replace the diaphram.

Zilch
12-19-2004, 05:30 PM
Yeah, Laketown, you're reading the specs wrong there. Those are test procedures.

Look further down. The crossover frequency to the tweeters is 5000 Hz. 076 is good to 21.5 kHz, I believe.

You're planning on grossly overpowering these, sounds like. 300 W/channel would be plenty for them....

Steve Gonzales
12-19-2004, 05:57 PM
Hey Laketown,

The 076 tweeter is one of the finest UHF drivers of ALL time and has a frequency response of 5k to 20k plus ! I don't know what data you are referring to ,but it can't be stating that as it's FR. The whole family of JBL UHF drivers are the most sought after, valuable UHF drivers on the planet. the 076 or 2403 UHF is my favorite (read-biased). It delivers a very smooth top end with an almost tactile quality, especially when the music includes triangles and other subtle percussion instruments. Check out JBL's , latest, greatest UHF to date, the 045 Be, it will be the UHF driver in the Great "Project May" speakers (do a search, you'll love it!) . As far as the modification is concerned, some people are not willing to have that "box" hanging out the back but I consider it to be of no consequence because I get to hear my midrange produced by another one of JBL's finest ever, the H92/LE85 horn-driver combo. It has been suggested to me that there might be something that would "fit" entirely within the stock enclosure but why mess with success? I've seen an 076 pair sell for well over $800.00 on eBay and an unbadged pair with some (?) diaphragms will fetch $500.00 in a flat second! I like the idea that you want to hear your L220's with the LE5-9's for a while because then I get to read all the happiness in your post when you decide to install the horns, there's going to be lots of !'s. I received so much good, usable information that it should be a cinch! I have to keep a watch on your progress as you do your bi/triamp mod too. I also have another subject to talk about regarding the L220/L222's and that is the PR15/PR15c weighting. In another thread, the issue of weights came up and during the trial and error phase of figuring things out, I tried my L222's with the (2) 100gm weights installed and uninstalled and the winner is installed (IMHO). To my suprise, I was informed that certain models had come stock with and some without. If I remember right, the LF is tuned to 26hz with and 40hz without, you might look if yours has em' or not and try both ways to see what your particular taste is. It's been interesting so far, so keep it coming, Steve G

gearhead
12-20-2004, 02:46 AM
Hi Laketown

I have owned three pairs of L 220 over the years. I still have the sales brochure(in German) and a Owners Manual(in English). You can get copies
if you want. Just send me a PM. About the Mods: Do not rush, take your
time. IMHO these speakers are not as "forgiving" as other JBL's, but with
the right program material they are really something. One thing is for shure,
they were the most elegant looking JBL speakers i have ever owned.

Cheers

Laketown
12-20-2004, 03:54 PM
Zilch: If I have the hardware why not hook it up? I think you can do more harm with a little poweramp and I promise you I'll be carefull not to damage my "babies" =o)

Steve: The first thing I'll do is to clean the 2 adjustment (located on the back)for the midrange and the highrange. In some positions they blocks the sound http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/frown.gif

Have you done something to mute?? the cabinet because when you knock on the wood it sounds very hollow and not like my B&W's??

I'll look for "metal disc's" and take some pics.

All: I have a Sansui B2101 send for repair and my plan is to use it until I'm done with my "Bridge project" sometime in 2005.

What amps are you L220 ovners using to feed your speakers?

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/christmas.gif
Mikael

Steve Gonzales
12-20-2004, 05:17 PM
Laketown, I haven't really paid that much attention to the integrity of the enclosure but I did notice all the beautiful sound coming "out" of them;) . I want to stress this point again: My modifaction is totally REVERSIBLE!! The worst part of it will be re-gluing the cardboard "tube" that makes-up the LE5-9's enclosure back on the sub-baffle that the L94 attaches to. So if you decide to do this mod and don't like it, just reglue that cardboard tube back on and re-install the LE5-9 and remove the "spacer" and you are done, STOCK AGAIN!. I would also suggest that if you decide to keep the mod in place, to follow the information I got about the X-over upgrades too. If you don't like the horns then you are not out money either as a good set of LE85's/H92's are always valuable and can be sold at a profit if you find a good deal to begin with. Pay no attention to the Nay-sayers, they've NEVER heard these speakers with the horns installed. I think it is a great project that has a very high return on your investment of time/money. Hell, it is the same horn/ driver combo that the L300 has. Can you imagine an L300 with a LE5-9 mid??? EXACTLY. I am NOT trying to stir up a debate of "So you think you've got an L300 now huh?", NO, I am saying that for PERSPECTIVE. I can't think of a better way to improve these speakers and am THRILLED with the GREAT RESULTS, I too own THREE PAIRS of these speakers (one pair being restored) and they will ALL have horns! Thanks for your response to mine.
Merry Christmas, Steve G

BTW: I power each pair with it's own 250wpc Yamaha M80 :smthsail:

4313B
12-21-2004, 02:26 PM
Hi,

I have just bought a pair of L220 and I'm trying to find some information about these lovely speakers. Can you help me with some kind of diagram with the frequence range +-db?
Is it difficult to change them to Biamping??

Thank You
Mikael (Denmark)It had a frequency range of ~ 32 Hz to ~ 20 kHz ( -6 dB downpoints )

Usually the 3-way systems with the LE5 midrange transducers aren't worth the trouble of bi-amping.


My plan is to use a bridged "digital" power amp from LCAudio (+1000watt 8ohm) http://www.lcaudio.com/index.php?page=35 to control the 14" and a normal bridged Millennium XP power amp (+400watt 8ohm) also from LC for the mid and top. http://www.lcaudio.com/index.php?page=31
I' have an active X-over (http://www.lcaudio.com/index.php?page=13) that I currently use for my B&W's.Perhaps if you built new enclosures and replaced the LE5 with an HL93/375 or 376...


Can you imagine an L300 with a LE5-9 mid???I don't have to imagine too hard. ;) LE5/2105's with 136/2231's and 077/2405's. Basically 15" versions of the L65 or S21. Did LE14 versions too. They actually worked surprisingly well but the LE5/2105 only had roughly 1 dB of headroom left over keeping up with the 136/2231. The HL93/2308/2311/375/2440/376/2441 was "killer" for dynamic range, impact and better "time alignment". Did them too with twelves, fourteens, and fifteens. The 076/2403 was quite nice, it could go down to meet the LE5/2105 or the big four inch compression drivers at a more sensible frequency than the 077/2405 could.

Steve Gonzales
12-21-2004, 04:55 PM
That is some VERY interesting information Giskard, What do you presently use for speakers?

Mr. Widget
12-21-2004, 07:01 PM
If I remember correctly he said it was a speaker from Bose.:duck:

Widget

4313B
12-21-2004, 08:29 PM
Yeah, Bose.

I deleted the post because I didn't want to have to get into some big huge explanation about why Bose spanks hell out of JBL.