JBL old school sound comes back!

[martin_wu99]

That is 4367!

I listened to it carefully at local dealer shop, very impressive,the bass goes deeper than 4365 and very pounchy and rapid.:D

Only one question: how to crossover it using outside DSP?:blink:

[Mr. Widget]

Only one question: how to crossover it using outside DSP?:blink:Buy the M2s with the Crown DSP amps?



Widget

[BMWCCA]

Where's the UHF driver?

[Ed Zeppeli]

Where's the UHF driver?

Ha. Good eye. Maybe it's like the 4430s. Two way with pots for adjusting two bands on the compression driver.

[martin_wu99]

Buy the M2s with the Crown DSP amps?



Widget
M2 looks ugly:crying:

[martin_wu99]

Where's the UHF driver?

No need for UHF driver at all,4367 use D2 driver:D

[martin_wu99]

I think there are only 3 speakers that have JBL old school sound:1400 array,M2,4367 among 4338,4348,4365 S4700,S9800,S9800SE,S9900 for so many years:D
How to crossover 4367 using DSP?

[BMWCCA]

No need for UHF driver at all,4367 use D2 driver:D

The question really, as Ed recognized, was why the UHF and HF pots on a two-way system?

[davidpou]

can it be that each pot hit a different frequency produced by the same driver like 8k and 16 k ?

[Mr. Widget]

You guys are not really having this discussion are you? Look at the Altec Model 19, the JBL 4430/35, and others... of course the EQ controls are tweaking the network to modify the frequency response.

I agree with you Martin about the aesthetics of the M2, but the purpose of the 4367 is to have a passive crossover version of the M2, so trying to defeat the design and going the DSP route is going to require a major hack.


Widget

[Odd]

78382

[Ian Mackenzie]

Check out the 4367 white paper

[tom1040]

The question really, as Ed recognized, was why the UHF and HF pots on a two-way system?

I have a 4365 and the pots look the same as the 4367 in the picture. With the 4365 you can see two separate HF sections. It just appears odd to see two adjustments with only one horn......most likely works well however.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Every time I have a seniors moment I wonder about this stuff too.

But then again my wife says I was born the day I met her...LOL

It's the same as the older 4430/4435 but the range of adjustment is quite narrow.

There is an HF presence control and an HF brilliance control.

This allows slight contouring (or voicing) of the important upper mid range and hf extension to your environment and preferences.

Its fine tuning only as these controls are full not variable but fixed switch increments.

GT generally does this sort of thing for a reason.

My take is he probably found that listener preferences varied in terms of setting up a fixed voltage drive for this network so he incorporated fine adjustment.

[Fitero]

I wrote to JBL technical support asking what frequencies were adjusted by both pots and I got a response but forgot where I stored it! Nuts! :banghead:

Hang on.... I'll search some more files...

[BMWCCA]

So UHF and HF refer to the range not the drivers. That's reasonable, and handy, on a two-way system. I sort of expected that would be left to the room EQ in a studio setting but I guess it makes it seem more traditional for a JBL studio monitor.

[vitalii427]

Little off topic but...
Why there's 8 Ohms written on the back plate and in the specs there's 6 Ohms?
(First picture in post #7)

[Ian Mackenzie]

So UHF and HF refer to the range not the drivers. That's reasonable, and handy, on a two-way system. I sort of expected that would be left to the room EQ in a studio setting but I guess it makes it seem more traditional for a JBL studio monitor.

You obviously have been spoon fed...LOL

The market is the home consumer who wants a JBL monitor (M2 = Pro market)

The controls are self explanatory, HF and UHF trim

The manual is quite clear

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1168570/Jbl-4367.html

[BMWCCA]

You obviously have been spoon fed...LOL

Remember, my first 50+ years of listening to JBLs consisted my 030s in the main system—two drivers and one L-pad! My last 36 years have included the L112s in the bedroom—three drivers and two L-pads. My last almost-nine-years have been spent enjoying the 4345 clones—four drivers and three L-pads. One for each upper-range driver in all cases. I hadn't really considered any other way and figured the rest was left to the EQ!
:seeya:

[SEAWOLF97]

JBL old school sound comes back!


I should hope that for the price of new speakers that they sound better than old school sound otherwise just buy some classic ones. ;)

[Ian Mackenzie]

Well in adjusted pricing if a 4343 cost close to $5000 in 1977 then the 4367 in today's prices 40 years later is good value

[Ian Mackenzie]

Remember, my first 50+ years of listening to JBLs consisted my 030s in the main system—two drivers and one L-pad! My last 36 years have included the L112s in the bedroom—three drivers and two L-pads. My last almost-nine-years have been spent enjoying the 4345 clones—four drivers and three L-pads. One for each upper-range driver in all cases. I hadn't really considered any other way and figured the rest was left to the EQ!
:seeya:


Okay,

Well they (GT) got smarter as time when on and figured out that the "Trim" arrangement is better for this type of system

Besides l think almost everyone had been driven insane by trying to adjust the F'ing L pads.

[BMWCCA]

Besides l think almost everyone had been driven insane by trying to adjust the F'ing L pads.
Someone once advised me (may have been Ian) when setting up my new-to-me 4345s that using the L7 (which has no L-pads) as a reference point in that room and setting the L-pads on the 4345 with the L7 sound as a guide, might be a good starting point. So, now that I understand the purpose of the "frequency" trim pads on the modern systems is nothing more than tone-controls, it gives even more credibility to the use of an EQ in a room system—another big hot-button at the root of many audiophile arguments.

If I felt like counting, I believe five of my dozen-or-so JBLs have one L-pad control per non-LF driver. Add one for the 250ti mess on the backside. The rest have none. Consumer versus pro monitor? Consumer versus wannabe "pro"-sumers? If the point is to adjust for room differences, what self-respecting audio engineer wouldn't do that from their desk rather than climbing up to the soffit-mounted boxes. Is all of it unnecessary and better left to permanent resistor values to achieve the ideal anechoic performance and letting the operator adjust for room variance at his control panel? What is the point of the L-pad then? And how can the pros here even attempt to explain the need to a spoon-fed amateur?

I may have to change my title to Spoon-Fed Amateur, though I only changed the original "Bottom-Feeder" at the request of others here. I've been called worse—and by members of this forum! ;)

[vitalii427]

Little off topic but...
Why there's 8 Ohms written on the back plate and in the specs there's 6 Ohms?
(First picture in post #7)

Please forgive me my bad English but am I ignored? :crying:

I've recently got 4367 and I'm impressed with the sound so much! I'm new to JBL. Previously had B&W 802 D2 & D3.
My McIntosh MC601 has 8,4,2 ohms terminals. I've read on other thread that I should use 4 ohms terminal. And to my ears the sound is definitely better than 8 ohms.

[Ed Zeppeli]

Please forgive me my bad English but am I ignored? :crying:

I've recently got 4367 and I'm impressed with the sound so much! I'm new to JBL. Previously had B&W 802 D2 & D3.
My McIntosh MC601 has 8,4,2 ohms terminals. I've read on other thread that I should use 4 ohms terminal. And to my ears the sound is definitely better than 8 ohms.


Personally I'd just go with what sounds good in this case. You're in between two nominal impedance ratings for the amp; I doubt you'll damage it.

For further information I'd be checking with McIntosh to see what they advise.

Good luck and congrats on your speakers.

[bldozier]

I like old school an iam not that age, it's senseless to reinvent the wheel
here, if you have no music to appreciate, maybe orchestra recordings, but thats
as good as it's going to get.

[martin_wu99]

JBL old school sound comes back!


I should hope that for the price of new speakers that they sound better than old school sound otherwise just buy some classic ones. ;)
The 4367's price is very reasonable,and the tweeter is much better than those olds:D

[martin_wu99]

Please forgive me my bad English but am I ignored? :crying:

I've recently got 4367 and I'm impressed with the sound so much! I'm new to JBL. Previously had B&W 802 D2 & D3.
My McIntosh MC601 has 8,4,2 ohms terminals. I've read on other thread that I should use 4 ohms terminal. And to my ears the sound is definitely better than 8 ohms.
IMO,MARK is much better than MCINTOSH to drive JBL,but still not good enough:)

[martin_wu99]

You obviously have been spoon fed...LOL

The market is the home consumer who wants a JBL monitor (M2 = Pro market)

The controls are self explanatory, HF and UHF trim

The manual is quite clear

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1168570/Jbl-4367.html

I don't think 4367 is home edition of M2, look at their horns,they are much more different

[Ian Mackenzie]

Someone once advised me (may have been Ian) when setting up my new-to-me 4345s that using the L7 (which has no L-pads) as a reference point in that room and setting the L-pads on the 4345 with the L7 sound as a guide, might be a good starting point. So, now that I understand the purpose of the "frequency" trim pads on the modern systems is nothing more than tone-controls, it gives even more credibility to the use of an EQ in a room system—another big hot-button at the root of many audiophile arguments.

If I felt like counting, I believe five of my dozen-or-so JBLs have one L-pad control per non-LF driver. Add one for the 250ti mess on the backside. The rest have none. Consumer versus pro monitor? Consumer versus wannabe "pro"-sumers? If the point is to adjust for room differences, what self-respecting audio engineer wouldn't do that from their desk rather than climbing up to the soffit-mounted boxes. Is all of it unnecessary and better left to permanent resistor values to achieve the ideal anechoic performance and letting the operator adjust for room variance at his control panel? What is the point of the L-pad then? And how can the pros here even attempt to explain the need to a spoon-fed amateur?

I may have to change my title to Spoon-Fed Amateur, though I only changed the original "Bottom-Feeder" at the request of others here. I've been called worse—and by members of this forum! ;)

So did a stir you up?

I hope not.

Lets look at the facts.

You are right all the old Pro monitor systems with multi drivers used L pads.

The facilities and engineering of networks was a far cry back then from today.

That is irrefutable.

The vintage pro monitors had fully variable Lpads with "0" position somewhere and "Full" was around +4 all the way down to -10 or so.

Its quite difficult to get both left and right speakers exactly the same without some sort of measurement of the levels.

I did not refer to the L7 but its not a bad idea all the same.

My more precise and simple diy technique was to use the ambiguous Tandy SLP meter, the one with a needle gauge. Just feed a steady state sine wave in the mid point of the range of each each of the upper drivers . Then measure it and then turn the Lpad down from full in 1 db increments.

i.e.HF +4 is Full, "0" is flat on the 4345, so you set the sine wave at 5 hertz with the Lpad up full and the Tandy SLP Meter reads +4 or what ever reference you plant to use.

Then turn the Lpad down until the needs reads 0 db (or 4 db less)

Do that for all the other Lpads and you are in business.

But like do it by ear and you will go crazy because small differences between there left and right channels will throw out the tonal balance and stereo image.

The better domestic systems like the L250Ti and the statement systems had fixed position level adjustments for exact adjustment of a particular frequency range.

And those fixed resister adjustments were awkward.

The 4367 is much smarter.

If you look at the actual adjustment its really narrow and the adjustment is exact.

As a side point since the 60's the JBL marketing guy has played the virtues of the JBL pro monitor in the form of a domestic version aka the JBL 4311 and the Century.

The 4367 is no different. It's for the home JBL nut case but he is not going to have a 1/3 octave pro equaliser in his lounge room.

So G.T with his advanced facility at Harman arrived at more convenient and far more precise adjustment to cover most variations in rooms, placement and voicing with other equipment in the home.

BTW I would not call a range of -1 top +1 db a tone control, its a fine adjustment of the frequency contour.

Most tone controls are -10 to 10 db.

If you refer to the manual its self explanatory.

Things have gotten easier to adjust.

But change in itself as a behaviour is not always easy.

[1audiohack]

Great post, I 100% agree.

Thanks Ian.

Barry.

[Mctwins]

Please forgive me my bad English but am I ignored? :crying:

I've recently got 4367 and I'm impressed with the sound so much! I'm new to JBL. Previously had B&W 802 D2 & D3.
My McIntosh MC601 has 8,4,2 ohms terminals. I've read on other thread that I should use 4 ohms terminal. And to my ears the sound is definitely better than 8 ohms.

Hallo!

On the specs it say "Nominal Impedance 6 ohms" and on the backpanel it only say's "Impedance 8 ohm".

If I where you I would connect it at the 8 ohm tap on your McIntosh, the amp will run cooler instead of 4 ohm tap. I know, had McIntosh gear for over ten years.:)

You have perfect amp for those speakers.

[ngccglp]

Hallo!

On the specs it say "Nominal Impedance 6 ohms" and on the backpanel it only say's "Impedance 8 ohm".

If I where you I would connect it at the 8 ohm tap on your McIntosh, the amp will run cooler instead of 4 ohm tap. I know, had McIntosh gear for over ten years.:)

You have perfect amp for those speakers.

My experience is using the 4 ohm tap of the MAC amps runs cooler

[Mctwins]

My experience is using the 4 ohm tap of the MAC amps runs cooler

True, depends how hard you push it, running in low/high volume differ.

To me, I trust the back panel saying "Impedance 8 ohm" on 4367.

On my 4429 it say on the back panel "Impedance 6 ohm", here I would connect it at the 4 ohm tap on a Mac amp.

[Mctwins]

One can see in the White Paper of 4367 the difference adjustment in freq level in HF and UHF. Seems to work fine.