Does this sound right?

[Boss96]

Had a friend look at my 2214h woofers today, he put a new spider in, attached the surround to the cone but before glueing the surround to the basket we noticed that the surround was about 1/8 or more raised above the basket. We were thinking that perhaps JBL used a cardboard spacer between the frame and the surround. If we do not use a spacer the cone will be pushed down as well as the spacer. I have been having problems with it bottoming out fairly easily and maybe at some point in the past someone had replaced the foam and did not use a spacer (if there is one).
Bob

[GordonW]

Sounds like either the wrong cone, or the cone is glued too high up on the voice coil. There should be NO spacers between a 2214 surround and the basket.

One thing- is the surround glued ON THE FRONT of the cone, or ON THE REAR of the cone, like it SHOULD be? If the surround is not glued CORRECTLY ON THE REAR OF THE CONE, the situation you're experiencing will occur, without fail...

Did you guys look at the relationship between the installed voice coil height and the magnetic gap? There should be equal overhang between the front of the coil to the front of the magnet top plate, as there is between the rear of the coil to the back of the top plate. In a 2214, this will mean about 1/4" of the coil should be sticking up out of the gap, at rest. If it's much more or less than this, the woofer will distort, due to the non-symmetrical travel (ie, the voice coil will "run out" of the magnet on the outward travel at a DIFFERENT amount of excursion as it will run out in the inward direction). That's definitely not a situation you want!

Regards,
Gordon.

[Boss96]

Surround is mounted behind the cone. The voice coil is very close to the cone, the windings I mean. In fact, I had asked about moving the coil higher up so it would'nt bottom out as easily but there is no room to do that.

I can't swear the cone is the wrong one, no way to tell as far as I know. It's a relatively "deep" cone compared to most other woofers.

Bob

[Steve Gonzales]

there are different rolls, half roll, 3/4 and full. Maybe the foam itself is the problem.

[Robh3606]

It would be good if we could see a picture or 2 it might helps things a bit if we could see what you actually have.


Rob:)

[Steve Gonzales]

Hey Robh3606, Very interesting avatar, I kick myself in the butt every time I think of the MINT XPL160's I let get away.... for $350.00 !!!!!!!!!!!!!:banghead:

[Robh3606]

Hey Steve

I have never even seen any of the XPL's in person :(. Lucky you got to own a pair for a while. Those are XPL200 clones that I was very lucky on ebay for parts. I got a single 093ti midrange as a curiosity. I had a Jubal as my center at the time and no matter what I did that midrange didn't sound right running next to compression drivers. As a goof I tried the 093 and got a big surprise. It sounded really good so I was hooked on them. Shortly after a guy started selling NOS pairs of 093Ti's. I think I got the second pair. The following week the same guy was selling the XPL200A crossovers. I already had 115h-1's and a single 122a so when the crossover went up I couldn't believe it!! A week after that 8 NOS 050 Gold tweeter went up and another member and I had a bidding war. He got 5 I got 3. We were the only 2 guys bidding. So 122A's and 050's were in the original version. I latter got the correct 2214 and 046Ti tweeters so now have all the correct drivers. I really like them and am glad I lucked out and got enough of the parts to attempt to build a pair. E-Bay never ceases to surprise me. Sooner or latter something good always seems to come up!

Rob:)

[Steve Gonzales]

I have never owned a pair of XPL's, I turned the guy down (stupid!) at $350.00! They are dreamy looking. Those 093's just look awesome and sound so good. It is a shame that we can't get JBL to do at least a limited run of some of the choice drivers....

BTW: I was stunned to see an fs of 19hz or 16hz for the 122A's, do you like the2214's better?

[Robh3606]

My favorite 12's are the 2214 and 128h-1. The boxes were originally tuned for 122A's and they can sound real nice and go low very well. Deeper than either the 128H-1 or the 2214H. The 2214's on paper don't go as low as either driver for the same volume and tuning I have on my XPL boxes but there is something about them. It doesn't sound or feel like you are missing anything and they can handle lots of power. I was using the PSS 1200 amp with them. It is rated at 600 watt per channel into 4 ohms. I had the clip warning lights come on a couple of times with loud powerfull bass transients and they handled it in stride. I mean no complaints at all stayed clean with no stain. Surprised the hell out of me!!

Rob:)

[Boss96]

I saw a picture of 2214's on Ebay today, the cone looks the same so I'm pretty sure I have the correct cone.
Must be the surround.
Rob, could you post a closeup picture of your woofers?
Bob

[Steve Gonzales]

I thought something sounded fishy, I'd rather have it be the foam than have to rebuild the whole thing again, Good luck with your project;)

[Boss96]

Not necessarily the most cost efficient but because I am curious, I ordered a foam kit from Parts Express that is specifically for the 2214, I want to see if it is any different than what I have now. If that does not work then I will get a recone kit and go from there.
Bob

[Robh3606]

OK here's a couple of close-ups.

Rob:)

[Steve Gonzales]

What do you know?, yesterday, my brother picked up a pair of L100T's and the 2214's had the wrong surrounds on them! Same problem ! Whomever refoamed them actually "gathered" up the cone to make it a slightly smaller diameter! i didn't have my digital camera with me but I've NEVER seen a job like this. So now I'm gonna have MB Sound "do their Magic on em". It appears the this woofer has only a 2 to 2.5" voicecoil ? Not that this matters much overall, I guess if it sounds better and likewise gives a better low-end grunt then so be it! I will say : that is one STEEP cone angle! I look forward to seeing some results.

Robby; Hey, is the lo-midbass 115H the same woofer that is in my L15's, just non-aquaplas coated? EXCELLENT WOOFER !!!!!!

[andresohc]

When I went to refoam my 2214Hs I bought the kit from OCS. When I got it home the foam was about one quarter inch to small in the diameter. I went back to OCS and one of the Sunda brothers showed me their proprietory method of adjustment. He took the foam and stretched it gently at many regular intervals around the circumference and voila! correct diameter. He said the original surrounds are no longer available and this is how they resurround them. After ripping one in half, I successfully "adjusted" two other ones and they fit like champs and still look great. Seem to work great too.

[Boss96]

Thanks for the pic, Rob, it looks like you have a different material surround than I do, looks like the generic ones I have access to.
Could I impose on you a little more though:) ? This is asking a lot but if you would, could you remove the woofer and take a horizontal pic of the spider in relation to the magnet base so I can see how "level" the spider is on your speaker?
If it's too much trouble I understand.
Bob

[GordonW]

When I went to refoam my 2214Hs I bought the kit from OCS. When I got it home the foam was about one quarter inch to small in the diameter. I went back to OCS and one of the Sunda brothers showed me their proprietory method of adjustment. He took the foam and stretched it gently at many regular intervals around the circumference and voila! correct diameter. He said the original surrounds are no longer available and this is how they resurround them. After ripping one in half, I successfully "adjusted" two other ones and they fit like champs and still look great. Seem to work great too.

That's not true, I can order the original 2214 surrounds... I just checked, and they're definitely still available. I was also told that there is NO issue of them going out of production... that they should be available for the forseeable future.

I've done the surround stretching thing before, and it does work fine... but it shouldn't be necessary on a 2214...

[Zilch]

That's not true, I can order the original 2214 surrounds.Well, let's be clear here. By "Original," you're not talking from JBL, who does not supply surrounds alone, rather, from third-party aftermarket sources, right?

And there are several such sources, some of which may not have or make surrounds for particular drivers?

[transducergeek]

When I went to refoam my 2214Hs I bought the kit from OCS. When I got it home the foam was about one quarter inch to small in the diameter. I went back to OCS and one of the Sunda brothers showed me their proprietory method of adjustment. He took the foam and stretched it gently at many regular intervals around the circumference and voila! correct diameter. He said the original surrounds are no longer available and this is how they resurround them. After ripping one in half, I successfully "adjusted" two other ones and they fit like champs and still look great. Seem to work great too.
This is very interesting to me. Could you explain in even more detail how this was accomplished? What is the spacing between tugs? If you applied some heat from a hair dryer would that help? Or just melt things? How much "torque" or pull force? DO you go around many times? or just once? Thanks, Rolf E

[GordonW]

Well, let's be clear here. By "Original," you're not talking from JBL, who does not supply surrounds alone, rather, from third-party aftermarket sources, right?

And there are several such sources, some of which may not have or make surrounds for particular drivers?

Correct. "Original" refers to the dimensions... same exact SIZE as the original.

For someone to say "they're not available anymore"... well, that may be true for ONE aftermarket supplier, but it's obviously NOT true for ALL of them!

Regards,
Gordon.

[GordonW]

This is very interesting to me. Could you explain in even more detail how this was accomplished? What is the spacing between tugs? If you applied some heat from a hair dryer would that help? Or just melt things? How much "torque" or pull force? DO you go around many times? or just once? Thanks, Rolf E

Heat is a BAD idea... non-uniformity in heating will make things un-even in a horrifying way. Heat is OK for "re-centering" spiders (ie, fabric), but it's a no-no for foam surrounds.

Stretching is a process that is better done in small increments... a bit of "tugging" in one place, then move incrementally around the circle. You want to go around several times, tugging just slightly each increment, until you reach the diameter you want.

Regards,
Gordon.

[andresohc]

The way I do it is my best recollection of how he showed me. Basically I spaced my hands about six inches apart and pull with a medium level force, and move my fingers maybe half an inch do it again, and repeat around the surround as many times as necessary to get the correct adjustment. As I found out when I tore a surround, small increments and patience work a lot better then a lot of force and a few pulls. Also I tried with less length of surround between my fingers but found it easier to stretch uniformly with a longer section and a lot of overlap. It worked well. I should qualify my quote of the OCS people regarding availability of the exact size surround. They were basically showing me how to get it to work.