Altec Valencias 845A?

[nobeam]

I just brought them home two weeks ago and now I'm getting around to do the research on them.
I think they are Altec Valencias 845A? (not sure) I don't know much about Altec these are my first!
I want to get into tubes and I aways start at speakers.
If any knows what models they are just chime in.
For one thing I don't know where to start on them, Is there kits for the horn? Whats under the white box and how do you get it off? Do they sell upgraded crossovers? I looked all over this site and I don't see a start to finish restore job on this model.

[nobeam]

Sorry, I'm new so if I'm posting in the wrong place just say so. I just want to know what I have and where should I start!
Here's more picture's
How do I rotate the pictures?

[gdmoore28]

Hello there, NoBeam!

What you have there are actually 846A Valencia Iconics. Using that model number ("846A Valencia") as a search term, you will find a wealth of information on your speakers: history, components, cabinet variations, modifications, restoration, etc.

The 846 was one of Altecs best selling speakers, have a dedicated following today, and continue to command ever-rising prices.

I would strongly suggest that you make your specific inquiries regarding your 846s on the AudioKarma and Altec Users Group forums. This site is overwhelmingly dedicated to JBL products, though there are a few of us Altec fans here, too. And, if I remember correctly, one member has a thread here devoted to his Valencia restoration.

Edit: Here's that thread: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?39347-Altec-Valencia-Rehab&highlight=846+Valencia

While in the process of finding that particular thread, I was amazed at the number of Valencia specific posts that are contained on this site. Check them out for yourself:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=628311

Anyway, once you've perused these posts and have nailed down the exact questions you have regarding your Valencias, just ask away and we'll do our best to help you.

Looking forward to reading and watching your restoration progress. We never get tired of seeing a classic set of speakers revived for modern service.

GeeDeeEmm

[nobeam]

I just started looking for a tube amp for it. Any ideas? I'm running a Ampzilla to it and they sound great! butter than my Krell and Sonus speakers (lots of cash out the door).

[nobeam]

Thanks!



Hello there, NoBeam!

What you have there are actually 846A Valencia Iconics. Using that model number ("846A Valencia") as a search term, you will find a wealth of information on your speakers: history, components, cabinet variations, modifications, restoration, etc.

The 846 was one of Altecs best selling speakers, have a dedicated following today, and continue to command ever-rising prices.

I would strongly suggest that you make your specific inquiries regarding your 846s on the AudioKarma and Altec Users Group forums. This site is overwhelmingly dedicated to JBL products, though there are a few of us Altec fans here, too. And, if I remember correctly, one member has a thread here devoted to his Valencia restoration.

Edit: Here's that thread: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?39347-Altec-Valencia-Rehab&highlight=846+Valencia

While in the process of finding that particular thread, I was amazed at the number of Valencia specific posts that are contained on this site. Check them out for yourself:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=628311

Anyway, once you've perused these posts and have nailed down the exact questions you have regarding your Valencias, just ask away and we'll do our best to help you.

Looking forward to reading and watching your restoration progress. We never get tired of seeing a classic set of speakers revived for modern service.

GeeDeeEmm

[gdmoore28]

I just started looking for a tube amp for it. Any ideas? I'm running a Ampzilla to it and they sound great! butter than my Krell and Sonus speakers (lots of cash out the door).

Honestly, I'm just not the guy to ask when it comes to tube amps. I'm currently using a pair of Dynaco MkIV monoblocks, but they are the first tube units I've used since I was a teenager back in the sixties. Until now, everything I've owned since then has been solid state.

How are you liking your Valencias? How did you come across them? How do you like the horn scene?

If you've done any reading since your first post, no doubt you've seen what I meant when I mentioned the thousands of Valencia threads. The most common complaint from new owners who are having their first taste of horns is the very accentuated mid range reproduction. This grates on some folk's ears, while others like it.

Altec addressed this issue in a couple of ways. First was the introduction of the 30923 "Attenuator/Equalizer Network," which attenuates the midrange frequencies and makes the high frequencies more prominent. This network is extremely easy to build, and very inexpensive. It is placed in line between the crossover "Hi" output and the horn driver.

http://www.audioheritage.org/photopost/data/500/Altec_30904_30923_filter.jpg

The effect of this network is quite noticeable and - to me- very pleasing. (In the schematic above, delete the bottom Zobel network that goes to the woofer.

Note: For a 16 ohm driver, the values change to this:

C1 = 3mF
R1 = 7.8 ohms
R2 = 13 ohms

The second way Altec addressed horn equalization was by the development of the Model 19 network, which somebody on the AK site recommended to you. This crossover network is rather complicated in function (though easier in construction), but, in essence, it allows the user to adjust both midrange and highrange frequencies.

This crossover can be purchased complete from Great Plains Audio in 8 ohm version. If your Valencias are 16 ohm rated, you will need to build your own using ratings calculated by the late "Zilch," who devoted much time to developing a very popular version of this crossover.

Simply search "Z-19 Crossover" and you will find many, many references. The original thread that began the process is here:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?18913-Altec-9844-8B

And another original thread:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?14690-Look-at-my-new-babies-Altec-846Bs-w-EV-Tweeters!&highlight=babies

There are many more topics to discuss, but this info should get you started on the most common one.

GeeDeeEmm

[GreatPlainsAudi]

You can get support for your Altec Valencias at Great Plains Audio https://greatplainsaudio.com (https://Great Plains Audio)

(https://greatplainsaudio.com)

[nobeam]

Honestly, I'm just not the guy to ask when it comes to tube amps. I'm currently using a pair of Dynaco MkIV monoblocks, but they are the first tube units I've used since I was a teenager back in the sixties. Until now, everything I've owned since then has been solid state.

How are you liking your Valencias? How did you come across them? How do you like the horn scene?

GeeDeeEmm


How I came across them was that I have no clue I was buying a pair of electro voice speakers and was building a tube system.
I started to talk to the guy about his work in radio and soon they were in the back of my truck.

I've been on AK for years building crazy projects and buying stuff I have no clue (taking risk) and some how it always works out.

How do I know if I have the 8 ohm or 16 ohm?

How do I like them? so far they have all that was missing in my magggies and my Ohm Walsh 4's. And I wont talk about the Sonus faber liuto wood's (only speaker mistake)
Im running them with my Mike Bettinger rebuilt Ampzilla system and I know its way over power. I running it at 15 watts and peaking at 30.



I won"t even use my Krell system on them because every speaker sounds like crap on it! ( long story)

[gdmoore28]

Your's are 16 ohm. The 806A driver is labeled as such, and the "-16Z" on the back of the woofer magnet means that it is 16 ohm, as well.

They do look nice.

GeeDeeEmm

[nobeam]

Here's the start of my rebuilding, Mind you I have no idea what I'm doing!

[nobeam]

Still dismanteling the speakers. As soon as I find time I will add some notes to this!

[nobeam]

Now here's me taking on the bad veneer job. Its a good thing the guy used the wrong glue. bottom picture show finished sanded top.

[nobeam]

Here's me mixing my own and fixing a cracked corner.

[sonofagun]

IMO, it'd be easier (and yield better results) if you just built new cabinets using all new materials. :blink:

Most lumber supply places carry pre-veneered plywood that eliminates the veneering tasks which can be formidable.

[nobeam]

I'm getting there! going to re-veneer the tops!

[gdmoore28]

Good going. I guess i missed your post on the cabinets being bad. Or maybe read it and forgot. Looks like you are going in the right direction, though.

Have you done veneering before? What type of veneer do you plan to use? Raw, paper-backed, pre-glued? Walnut, mahogany, or something else?

I'm currently building some Altec cabinets and chose to go with raw striped mahogany simply because it's cheaper. And harder to work with. But quite beautiful once finished. Here's a picture of my top panels.

7775077751

This was after the second coat of poly. They now have six coats, but no pics taken yet. They are as smooth as a baby's behind now!

GeeDeeEmm

[nobeam]

Good going. I guess i missed your post on the cabinets being bad. Or maybe read it and forgot. Looks like you are going in the right direction, though.

Have you done veneering before? What type of veneer do you plan to use? Raw, paper-backed, pre-glued? Walnut, mahogany, or something else?

I'm currently building some Altec cabinets and chose to go with raw striped mahogany simply because it's cheaper. And harder to work with. But quite beautiful once finished. Here's a picture of my top panels.

7775077751

This was after the second coat of poly. They now have six coats, but no pics taken yet. They are as smooth as a baby's behind now!

GeeDeeEmm

how did you trim the edges before you butt them or did you? did you tape them?

[gdmoore28]

I tried to constantly keep in mind what the eye would see first once the project was completed. That meant applying the veneer from the rear to the front, with each edge covering the one behind it. I hope that's clear.

As I moved toward the front of the cabinet, of course, each new panel overlapped the one behind it, and then was trimmed back to square using an orange 1/2" hobby knife. The kind that your break off to expose a new tip.

Once the veneer panel was trimmed properly, I very lightly scuffed the adjoining edges with 120 sandpaper to make a fine abutment.

This is not at all clear to read. Sorry. I wish I'd taken pictures of the process.

If you're interested in more details of the entire build process, it is documented here:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/altec-606-inspired-build-using-a-7-components.766911/

GeeDeeEmm

[nobeam]

Should I be concerned about over driving them? I am using a Ampzilla Amp, But not to loud!

[grumpy]

gdm - what a great project! thanks for the audiokarma story link.

[gdmoore28]

gdm - what a great project! thanks for the audiokarma story link.


Thanks, Grumpy!

GeeDeeEmm

[nobeam]

78013Now that I have more time on my hands with the Houston flooding I'm back to the Altec's. the speakers need more bass. before changing the crossovers yet I tried insulating.
More insulation gave me less bass. I didn't expect that.

Update: I think I blew one of the speakers, I left me amp up high an I dropped the needle and now its dead.

I see many places on ebay selling the diaphragm's are they all the same or is one better?

[nobeam]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Altec-604-802-804-806-807-808-902-908-909-16-Ohm-Replacement-diaphragm-NEW-GPA-/332327960948?hash=item4d604a4174:g:174AAOxyFH1RjAv A



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Diaphragm-for-Altec-604-802-806-808-902-and-More-16-Ohm-CSA-/361431061910?hash=item5426f85596:g:KgAAAOSw~oFXD5X L



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titanium-Diaphragm-Fit-For-Altec-Lansing-806-A-806A-806-Z-806-Z-806Z-16-Ohm-/252595500203?hash=item3acfdd74ab:g:wmIAAOSwqfNXoJ0 W



Is there a difference? or are we just assuming?

[grumpy]

It's possible to "fix" this very typical failure, but it will eventually fail again
(so keep your hunt going for a replacement).

You have to clean (scrape) off the coating on end of the flat wire and use a very small
amount of solder to re-make the connection. It may last an hour or a year.

[nobeam]

I need to double the cap, double the inductors and the pads 16 ohms?
I don't know if this will work so please chime in.

Caps
WAS NOW

21 UF 250V 40UF 250V
16 UF 250V 33UF 250V
8UF 250V 15
6.2UF 12
3.9UF 6.8

Inductors
.30Mh ,65Mh
.80MH 1.5Mh

Eminence PX-LPAD crossover L-pad attenuator for precision matching of HF to LF drivers. Includes faceplate and control knob. 100 watts RMS power handling capacity. 8 ohm impedance.

[gdmoore28]

I need to double the cap, double the inductors and the pads 16 ohms?
I don't know if this will work so please chime in.

Caps
WAS NOW

21 UF 250V 40UF 250V
16 UF 250V 33UF 250V
8UF 250V 15
6.2UF 12
3.9UF 6.8

Inductors
.30Mh ,65Mh
.80MH 1.5Mh

Eminence PX-LPAD crossover L-pad attenuator for precision matching of HF to LF drivers. Includes faceplate and control knob. 100 watts RMS power handling capacity. 8 ohm impedance.




Nope. Double the inductors/cut the caps by 50%/install 16 ohm L-pads.

GeeDeeEmm

[nobeam]

I've started working on the simple crossover and here's my parts list:

C-1=6uf
C-2=18uf
R-1=3.9 ohm
R-2=6.5 ohm
R-3=5 ohm

As for a 16 ohm crossover like mine it's:

C-1=3uf
C-2= 9uf
R-1=3.9 ohm
R-2=6.5 ohm
R-3=5 ohm

I can not find a 9uf cap as a axial can i use any other?