Best compact enclosure for these Altec Components

[Stampants]

Hi. Got a good lead on these Altec Components:

Horn: 511B
Drivers: 802-16G 16ohms
Woofers: 416-8A

What "compact" enclosure will at least approach or give justice to these components, barring the original A7 enclosures since WAF and limited room size is a struggle.

Thanks in advance for the help!

🙂

[Earl K]

You are stuck between a rock & a hard place .

The 416-8a wants a minimum of about 7 cu ft to produce reasonable bass .

A 7 cu' sized enclosure is rarely WAF approved .

This is all due to the very large VAS value of the woofer .

:)

[Stampants]

You are stuck between a rock & a hard place .

The 416-8a wants a minimum of about 7 cu ft to produce reasonable bass .

A 7 cu' sized enclosure is rarely WAF approved .

This is all due to the very large VAS value of the woofer .

:)

Hmmm.... how about Altec Valencia Cabinets?

[Stampants]

You are stuck between a rock & a hard place .

The 416-8a wants a minimum of about 7 cu ft to produce reasonable bass .

A 7 cu' sized enclosure is rarely WAF approved .

This is all due to the very large VAS value of the woofer .

:)

Well I know it is not going to be that small, id just want something smaller than an A7 cabinet. I can go for 36" in height and around 20" in depth. Width can be variable ��

[emilime75]

Your 36x20, and going 24 in width and using .75" material, yields 8.31 cuft. Enough to down size it a bit and allow for the displacement of the bracing, drivers, horn, vents...

[Stampants]

Your 36x20, and going 24 in width and using .75" material, yields 8.31 cuft. Enough to down size it a bit and allow for the displacement of the bracing, drivers, horn, vents...

Nice! Thanks! are there any DIY Altec approved enclosure plans that are similar to the above dimensions?

[Earl K]

( Right-Click and open the pic in a new tab to see it full size ).

- Multiply the 3 inside dimensions of any box ( stated in inches ) & then divide by 1728 to get cu ft

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/plans/1970's-lf-plans/enclosures07.jpg

:)

[Ed Kreamer]

You'll find in the library section of this site, some altec plans in the 1974 enclosure manual along with some recommendations from Altec. The 846b box is about as small as you can go (about 5 cu.ft.) Altec recommended 7.5 ft3 as the optimum for the 416. The 620 box that Earl shows here is a good starting place. Also make certain that the horn is firmly ( but don't break it! ) attached to your box as they have a tendency to ring. Not much you can do here, it's going to be big.

Hope this helps

Ed

[Stampants]

( Right-Click and open the pic in a new tab to see it full size ).

- Multiply the 3 inside dimensions of any box ( stated in inches ) & then divide by 1728 to get cu ft

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/plans/1970's-lf-plans/enclosures07.jpg

:)

Thanks for this!

[Stampants]

You'll find in the library section of this site, some altec plans in the 1974 enclosure manual along with some recommendations from Altec. The 846b box is about as small as you can go (about 5 cu.ft.) Altec recommended 7.5 ft3 as the optimum for the 416. The 620 box that Earl shows here is a good starting place. Also make certain that the horn is firmly ( but don't break it! ) attached to your box as they have a tendency to ring. Not much you can do here, it's going to be big.

Hope this helps

Ed

Replies have been a lot of help.

I'm actually mulling over choosing either the Model 19 enclosure or the Valencia ones. Mainly so I can hide the horns within the enclosure.
(I know less than the recommended cuft but it seems that these are the sizes I can get away with in our living room)

Also a few questions:

- what are the downsides of choosing these enclosures over the 620s ( do they result in a very compromised sound or would components degrade if I choose a smaller enclosure?)

- The compression driver is 16 ohms and the woofer is 8 ohms. The seller says that he has an Altec Crossover [failed to mention which one, will know when I visit him next week] is this just as simple as hooking up these drivers to that xover or do I need to tweak one of the components for to match ohms?

Thanks Guys!

[Mr. Widget]

FWIW: If I were going this route, I'd go with the Model 19 and slip your 511B horns in there. I think the low end of the 511B is nicer than the stock 811B and even if you go with the higher crossover frequency of the Model 19, I think you would still appreciate the larger horn. (Just an educated guess... I haven't tried it myself.)


Widget

[Stampants]

FWIW: If I were going this route, I'd go with the Model 19 and slip your 511B horns in there. I think the low end of the 511B is nicer than the stock 811B and even if you go with the higher crossover frequency of the Model 19, I think you would still appreciate the larger horn. (Just an educated guess... I haven't tried it myself.)


Widget

Thanks. Inclined to go in this route too. Just noticed that the Model 19s have the 416B (guess work here), won't the 416 8a be an issue?

[Earl K]

Couple of suggestions;

(1) Since WAF is a recurring factor here, you need to determine what size enclosure she will allow in the listening space .
- I recommend creating a pair of cardboard box mockups ( based on the enclosure info given ) and then starting negotiations.

(2) Do your 416's still have their original cone kits ?

If so, they'll have this stamped number ( 21184-2 ) somewhere on the back of the cone ;

http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1069528-three-altec-4168a-15-alnico-lf-drivers.jpg

If they have been reconed with newer Altec parts, they'll have a number like the following ;

https://www.picclickimg.com/00/s/MTIyN1gxMjg3/z/A1AAAOSwE0JY-oNE/$/Vintage-Altec-Lansing-416-8C-LF-VOTT-Speaker-CLEAN-_57.jpg

35400 is the important part to the above number .

If you have neither number then your 416's have been reconed ( most likely ) with aftermarket parts ( & therefore, with all due respect, spending any more time on choosing a box size is a waste of time > until your woofers TS parameters get measured ) .

:)

[Chas]

FWIW: If I were going this route, I'd go with the Model 19 and slip your 511B horns in there. I think the low end of the 511B is nicer than the stock 811B and even if you go with the higher crossover frequency of the Model 19, I think you would still appreciate the larger horn. (Just an educated guess... I haven't tried it myself.)


Widget

+1, having used both horns in the past I would strongly agree. If you are felling really adventurous, try a JBL CD instead of Altec. You'll need to drill an additional mounting hole in the flange (three bolt vs. two) and you can still swap drivers back and forth.

[Stampants]

Couple of suggestions;

(1) Since WAF is a recurring factor here, you need to determine what size enclosure she will allow in the listening space .
- I recommend creating a pair of cardboard box mockups ( based on the enclosure info given ) and then starting negotiations.

(2) Do your 416's still have their original cone kits ?

If so, they'll have this stamped number ( 21184-2 ) somewhere on the back of the cone ;

http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1069528-three-altec-4168a-15-alnico-lf-drivers.jpg

If they have been reconed with newer Altec parts, they'll have a number like the following ;

https://www.picclickimg.com/00/s/MTIyN1gxMjg3/z/A1AAAOSwE0JY-oNE/$/Vintage-Altec-Lansing-416-8C-LF-VOTT-Speaker-CLEAN-_57.jpg

35400 is the important part to the above number .

If you have neither number then your 416's have been reconed ( most likely ) with aftermarket parts ( & therefore, with all due respect, spending any more time on choosing a box size is a waste of time > until your woofers TS parameters get measured ) .

:)

Wow! Thanks for this info! If ever it needs re edging and or coning where can I get valid parts?

[Earl K]

http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/MAESTRO_GOLD.png (http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/)

:)

[Mr. Widget]

Just noticed that the Model 19s have the 416B (guess work here), won't the 416 8a be an issue?Beyond my knowledge and experience. I have only used the Altec HF drivers and horns.


Widget

[srm51555]

Thanks. Inclined to go in this route too. Just noticed that the Model 19s have the 416B (guess work here), won't the 416 8a be an issue?


Check this out : http://www.hostboard.com/forums/f700/179817-model-19-cabinet-build-2-sets-post1842651.html#post1842651

[Stampants]

http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/MAESTRO_GOLD.png (http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/)

:)

Thanks for the tip. been reading up about them and Iconic.

[Stampants]

Beyond my knowledge and experience. I have only used the Altec HF drivers and horns.


Widget

Thanks for all the help though

[Stampants]

Check this out : http://www.hostboard.com/forums/f700/179817-model-19-cabinet-build-2-sets-post1842651.html#post1842651

Wow! Just Wow! Hope I can have their DIY skills!

[Stampants]

What If I just lengthen the Valencia cabinets? Read somewhere that Altec recommended less than 6 cu ft for ducted port.

[Earl K]

What If I just lengthen the Valencia cabinets? Read somewhere that Altec recommended less than 6 cu ft for ducted port.


Clearly you want a Valencia sized enclosure ( since you continue to circle back to this smaller size ) .

So just get on with it;
- Design your boxes, build them & then tune them in place ( I'd suggest that you allow for an external variable tuning system so you can tune to your rooms acoustics ) .
- Port tuning can be effectively done by adjusting duct lengths outside the boxes baffle board .

Here's a link to some enclosure tuning software ;

winISD Pro ( .exe ) download (http://www.linearteam.org/download/winisd-07x.exe). > Clearly, this software is only for the Windows OS .

> If you find yourself ( unfortunately ) dependent on the Mac OS ( & therefore can't utilize the above link ) / you'll realize soon enough that ( big picture ) DIY Speaker Building & Design is not a supportable process for a Mac user ( & you can thank Steve Jobs for that ) .

> Your alternatives are to get a Windows machine or resign yourself to buying speaker kits from others ( like DIYSG (http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic-seos-12.html) ) or pay others to do your design work for you ( which is what Apple has always intended ) .

:)

[Lee in Montreal]

Wow! Thanks for this info! If ever it needs re edging and or coning where can I get valid parts?

It seems that for anything ALTEC, you should go there : http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/ ;-)

[Lee in Montreal]

> If you find yourself ( unfortunately ) dependent on the Mac OS ( & therefore can't utilize the above link ) / you'll realize soon enough that ( big picture ) DIY Speaker Building & Design is not a supportable process for a Mac user ( & you can thank Steve Jobs for that ) .

That's a pretty dumb statement, Earl. What's your grudge? :eek:

OP - Download http://www.diysubwoofers.org/design/ported.zip if you want to model a ported cab response. It works whatever your platform. :D
http://www.diysubwoofers.org/prt/

[gdmoore28]

[QUOTE=Lee in Montreal;406065]That's a pretty dumb statement, Earl.


Thirty paces, gentlemen. Three, two, one . . . .

:duel:



:lurk:

[Lee in Montreal]

[QUOTE=Lee in Montreal;406065]That's a pretty dumb statement, Earl.


Thirty paces, gentlemen. Three, two, one . . . .

:duel:



:lurk:

Nah. Not needed. I believe in natural selection. ;-)

[Earl K]

Lee, I stand behind my statement that if an audio DIYer is even half-serious about this hobby > they need to use the WinDoze platform .

This is due to the availability ( and affordability ) of the necessary software needed for passive crossover design ( first & foremost among all the other design disciplines ) .

FWIW ( to this debate ) , I keep ( & maintain ) 3 older PowerPC Macs here > just so that I can keep running some legacy software that only works in OS-9 ( this includes MacSpeakerz, the predecessor to WinSpeakerz (https://www.trueaudio.com/)> a 1990's era, Box Tuning software ).

I'm also an accomplished HyperCard scriptor from decades back ( and didn't appreciate Apple abandoning support for it when they moved to OSX > that would be the trigger event leading to my epiphany ) .

:)

[Stampants]

Clearly you want a Valencia sized enclosure ( since you continue to circle back to this smaller size ) .

So just get on with it;
- Design your boxes, build them & then tune them in place ( I'd suggest that you allow for an external variable tuning system so you can tune to your rooms acoustics ) .
- Port tuning can be effectively done by adjusting duct lengths outside the boxes baffle board .

Here's a link to some enclosure tuning software ;

winISD Pro ( .exe ) download (http://www.linearteam.org/download/winisd-07x.exe). > Clearly, this software is only for the Windows OS .

> If you find yourself ( unfortunately ) dependent on the Mac OS ( & therefore can't utilize the above link ) / you'll realize soon enough that ( big picture ) DIY Speaker Building & Design is not a supportable process for a Mac user ( & you can thank Steve Jobs for that ) .

> Your alternatives are to get a Windows machine or resign yourself to buying speaker kits from others ( like DIYSG (http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic-seos-12.html) ) or pay others to do your design work for you ( which is what Apple has always intended ) .

:)

Yup. Bullseye! Valencia enclosures it is. Thanks for the software tips.

[Stampants]

That's a pretty dumb statement, Earl. What's your grudge? :eek:

OP - Download http://www.diysubwoofers.org/design/ported.zip if you want to model a ported cab response. It works whatever your platform. :D
http://www.diysubwoofers.org/prt/

Thanks for the tip! I'm actually a mac user

[Stampants]

Well guys sorry for the run around but its seems that i'll have to settle for a Valencia Enclosure that's ported.
Next step is to bother you guys with what crossover tweaks it should have.
Thanks a lot!

[Stampants]

Seems TAD speakers have been making a sort of lengthened Valencia back in the 80s hahahaha!

http://audio-database.com/PIONEER-EXCLUSIVE/speaker/model2402-e.html

[Earl K]

Well guys sorry for the run around but its seems that i'll have to settle for a Valencia Enclosure that's ported.
Next step is to bother you guys with what crossover it should have.
Thanks a lot!

If you change out the 16 ohm diaphragms ( for the 8 ohm model ) in your 802's, you can use this N1201-8a network ( GPA sells these diaphragms ) .

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=16418&stc=1&d=1151332183

I'm not aware of any stock Altec networks that work properly when matching an 8 ohm woofer to a 16 ohm HF driver .

:)

[Stampants]

If you change out the 16 ohm diaphragms ( for the 8 ohm model ) in your 802's, you can use this N1201-8a network ( GPA sells these diaphragms ) .

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=16418&stc=1&d=1151332183

I'm not aware of any stock Altec networks that work properly when matching an 8 ohm woofer to a 16 ohm HF driver .

:)

Hmmm... this is the crossover that comes with it...

77093

[Stampants]

Update on WAF!!

My wife doesn't seem to mind putting the horns atop a box just as long as the cab is finished nicely! Yey!

This is just probably me chasing the rats inside my head, but I just read about Onkens.

What's the smallest Onken size the 416's can bear (have my eyes set on the Petite Onkens)

Again, Thanks guys and I'm really sorry for the persistent questions and finicky train of thought, just want input so I can have a complete picture of my options.

Many Thanks!

[Earl K]

Your Onken question is un-answerable since nobody ( that I'm aware of ) really knows how to properly model that sort of enclosure .

The challenge is; once the Onkens thick felt divider is hanging in place, the box stops being a typical bass reflex .

I suspect that the effective Qts of the woofer goes up, accompanied by a small drop in effective Fs ( but don't really have proof ).

:)

[Stampants]

Your Onken question is un-answerable since nobody ( that I'm aware of ) really knows how to properly model that sort of enclosure .

The challenge is; once the Onkens thick felt divider is hanging in place, the box stops being a typical bass reflex .

I suspect that the effective Qts of the woofer goes up, accompanied by a small drop in effective Fs ( but don't really have proof ).

:)

Hahahaha... Touche... Thanks buddy for actively indulging me!

[gdmoore28]

Update on WAF!!

My wife doesn't seem to mind putting the horns atop a box just as long as the cab is finished nicely! Yey!

This is just probably me chasing the rats inside my head, but I just read about Onkens.

What's the smallest Onken size the 416's can bear (have my eyes set on the Petite Onkens)

Again, Thanks guys and I'm really sorry for the persistent questions and finicky train of thought, just want input so I can have a complete picture of my options.

Many Thanks!

Well, you have wide-open approval on your cabinet design. (Better get that in writing! :dont-know:)

Regarding the Onken, there are a bunch of them out there using the 416. Do a search and you will find many, many beautiful results - and lots of disappointment about bass response. Of course, it's all a matter of personal preferences, but I do enjoy more-excellent-than-usual bass presence with a nice bump "right there." The Onkens, apparently, don't do that, and are known for flat delivery with a very smooth roll off. Lots of people like that. If you are one of them, you probably will, too.

Edit: If you want to really make those 511s pop, have them bead-blasted (cheap) and repaint them in Altec Hammertone Green. (Before repainting them, it's also a good time to clean up the welding slag on the fins - if you have any.)

GeeDeeEmm