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djnagle
04-02-2017, 02:23 PM
With all the technology we have today I wonder how big a pair of Butt Cheek horns would have to be to get down to 30hz give or take. I think it would look good with three foot Butt cheeks, the BCs from the 4435 for midrange, and topped with the baby BCs. Might take a kind of big 3D printer but worth looking into.

Lee in Montreal
04-02-2017, 03:15 PM
The butt cheek shape is for mediums and highs distribution. Not needed on bass. It goes down to 350Hz it is already close to 32" per side.
Nonetheless expect a very large horn if a flat-to-30Hz response is needed. ;-)

JeffW
04-02-2017, 05:39 PM
The 2360 is the size progression up from the 2344 if I'm not mistaken.

Lee in Montreal
04-02-2017, 05:46 PM
Same concept and design. Different format for a different application. Mostly movie theaters. I have them at home an love them. Some hate them. Go figure.

Horn Fanatic
04-02-2017, 09:15 PM
With all the technology we have today I wonder how big a pair of Butt Cheek horns would have to be to get down to 30hz give or take. I think it would look good with three foot Butt cheeks, the BCs from the 4435 for midrange, and topped with the baby BCs. Might take a kind of big 3D printer but worth looking into.

Greetings -

The minimum horn mouth area to support 30 Hz would be roughly 10 feet square, with an unmanageable length. A smaller area and shorter length if deployed in a reduced solid angle. Considering the Bi-Radials were designed for the pattern control of high frequencies, it's unlikely that particular design would be necessary for frequencies that are omni-directional.

For example; Say you have a horn with a 10' x 10' mouth, and a throat area of 4" x 4". Your horn length would be 20 feet long. Shrink the horn down to operate in a reduced solid angle as one of a pair of corner horns, your horn length becomes approximately 12 feet with a mouth area of 7 square feet.

You could shorten the horn by employing manifold sections, and better manage the mouth area by way of a judicious choice of a Hyperbolic curve, versus an exponential.

If I had a choice between using Bi-Radial or Mantaray horns, I would use the Bi-Radial. The Mantaray horn has two built in design flaws that cannot be fixed. If the problems could be corrected, it wouldn't be a Mantaray.

HF

Rudy Kleimann
04-05-2017, 02:06 PM
IIRC, The 2360 provides full loading and pattern control to 350Hz.
They're big, but they do sound very good. If it had flanges near the mouth so that it could be mounted in a cabinet, I'd probably use some in a large PA rig.

Rudy Kleimann
04-05-2017, 02:13 PM
In the 1980's retired NFL QB Ken Stabler bought a C&W dance bar in NW Houston named "Diamondback". It had huge bass horns in the corners of the dance area loaded with FIVE 15" cone drivers stacked up in a horn that measured ~7 feet by ~10 inches at the throat, ~12-15 feet long, with a mouth ~7'Hx12-15' wide. JBL 2350-Series mid horns hung on chain surrounding the dance floor, with some HF horn on top of them.
I loved walking into those horns and squeezing myself as near as I could to the woofers and being "energized" :bouncy: by them.

The DJ booth had a wall of amp racks chock full of BGW 750 amps with LED power output meters in an arc across the faceplates mesmerising me...:dj-party:

Lee in Montreal
04-05-2017, 03:26 PM
IIRC, The 2360 provides full loading and pattern control to 350Hz.
They're big, but they do sound very good. If it had flanges near the mouth so that it could be mounted in a cabinet, I'd probably use some in a large PA rig.

The 2360 has no provision for mounting in a box. It is usually fitted on top of the bass cabinet with a fixed wooden stand, or a steel swiveling stand.

Rudy Kleimann
04-06-2017, 11:52 AM
The 2360 has no provision for mounting in a box. It is usually fitted on top of the bass cabinet with a fixed wooden stand, or a steel swiveling stand.

IF it had flanges...:blink:

turnitdown
12-06-2017, 06:45 PM
Didn't Western Electric do that (somewhat) with the spiriform (curled) shape?

turnitdown
12-06-2017, 06:48 PM
With all the technology we have today I wonder how big a pair of Butt Cheek horns would have to be to get down to 30hz give or take. I think it would look good with three foot Butt cheeks, the BCs from the 4435 for midrange, and topped with the baby BCs. Might take a kind of big 3D printer but worth looking into.

3 foot tall but cheeks...I think I know her. And, there was a song about her..Bertha Butt

Lee in Montreal
12-06-2017, 07:03 PM
Didn't Western Electric do that (somewhat) with the spiriform (curled) shape?

They were called Model 12, 13 and 15 (as well as other models ;-) ) if I remember and would go relatively low as the curled horn was very long.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e7/ec/f3/e7ecf3e1b0b831e69ec4db5bd2ea9936--audiophile-speakers-audio-speakers.jpg

http://www.preservationsound.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/TheatreHorn-e1285421568249-738x1024.jpg

turnitdown
12-06-2017, 07:15 PM
That is what I was talking about, exactly. If it was full range, it probably didn't do lows well, but the formula for the correct geometry exists. It can be done. There was a CD bass driver from JBL or AL.

hsosdrum
12-11-2017, 01:25 PM
The length of that Western Electric horn created very noticeable arrival-time differences when woofers and tweeters were added to it in attempts to extend frequency response for musical films beyond the limited range required for dialog. (In films featuring Eleanor Powell's tap dancing the multi-way system produced multiple taps instead of just one for each step she took. Audiences were quick to complain.)

In response to this, Douglas Shearer (head of MGM's sound department), John Hilliard and James B. Lansing designed the Shearer Horn, which used a folded-horn woofer and multicell tweeter that were much more closely time-aligned. This speaker improved theater sound so much that it was awarded a technical Oscar in 1936.

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/lmco/shearer.htm

hsosdrum
12-11-2017, 01:36 PM
That is what I was talking about, exactly. If it was full range, it probably didn't do lows well, but the formula for the correct geometry exists. It can be done. There was a CD bass driver from JBL or AL.

I think the CD bass driver you're referring to was the one Thuras designed for the Fletcher System used in the Bell Labs Auditory Perspective demonstration that took place in April of 1933. The bass drivers coupled with the W.E. "snail" horn were mounted on an open baffle, so couldn't be compression drivers.

DualTriode
01-03-2019, 08:51 AM
3 foot tall but cheeks...I think I know her. And, there was a song about her..Bertha Butt
I could not help myself replying to this old thread.

I remember Bertha Butt she and Wanda were the Butt sisters.

DT

Rudy Kleimann
01-06-2019, 10:23 AM
I could not help myself replying to this old thread.

I remember Bertha Butt she and Wanda were the Butt sisters.

DT


https://youtu.be/4LQJYgs1sxc?t=72

They were:
Betty Butt
Bella Butt
and
Beth-Sheeba Butt!!!

...they called it the Bertha Butt Boogie...
No question!
:dj-party:Bump! Bump! bubba-dump! Ba-bump-bump-bump! Bubba-dump! :banana::banana::banana: