Altec 604e advice

[Goldjazz]

Hi all, I'm picking up this pair of 604E at the end of the week. Pretty excited as I've been waiting for a long time to get a pair. Going on a bit of a roadtrip on Friday night to pick em up.

Should I pop open the crossovers and measure the caps and replace if needed? Also wondering if I should track down the mastering labs X over to effectively make them Big Reds. Any other advice on how to get them in best shape welcome. Looking forward to that first listening session when they're hooked up to all my gear.

[gdmoore28]

Good find! I'd post over on the Altec Users Group, too. Lots and lots of very informed folks there.

GeeDeeEmm

[speakerdave]

A better photo would help, but I'm kind of questioning the cones. I can't quite make that out as an accordian surround, and the doping looks a little too black. An aftermarket recone should be reflected significantly in the price. Even a GPA recone should not be priced with the collectibility pricing of originals. With the 604e a recone, if 8 ohms instead of the original 16, can obsolete the crossover.

As for the Mastering Labs crossover--Very rarely seen separated from the big reds and very expensive when. Today there are other alternatives, some less costly and perhaps as good or better.

I could be wrong, but . . . . See if anyone over at Altec users can give you the numbers for the original cones.

[Goldjazz]

A better photo would help, but I'm kind of questioning the cones. I can't quite make that out as an accordian surround, and the doping looks a little too black. An aftermarket recone should be reflected significantly in the price. Even a GPA recone should not be priced with the collectibility pricing of originals. With the 604e a recone, if 8 ohms instead of the original 16, can obsolete the crossover.

As for the Mastering Labs crossover--Very rarely seen separated from the big reds and very expensive when. Today there are other alternatives, some less costly and perhaps as good or better.

I could be wrong, but . . . . See if anyone over at Altec users can give you the numbers for the original cones.

This is the only pic right now, there were other pics but the ad has been taken down now. Yeah not sure about the surrounds, im told they are all original, will check the cones when i get them. Would be a bit of a shame if they were not original. Yeah see what you mean about the big red x overs, pricey. Well i'll take a few pics when i get them.

[grumpy]

Might check this also:

http://home.earthlink.net/~jmarkwart/id22.html

[gdmoore28]

Those pictures enlarge very nicely and I'd wager money that they are original unless they've been reconed for a very long time. Both cones, especially the one on the right, have those "splotches" that tend to show up on old cones, and there appears to be a minute amount of pooling of the surround sealer at the bottom. My old eyes aren't good enough to be absolutely sure about that last part.

Nevertheless, Dave makes some excellent points. I'd go armed with the correct cone numbers and a multi-meter. If things aren't correct, you will have reason to do some negotiating on the price.

Let us know how it works out, will 'ya?

GeeDeeEmm

[Goldjazz]

Those pictures enlarge very nicely and I'd wager money that they are original unless they've been reconed for a very long time. Both cones, especially the one on the right, have those "splotches" that tend to show up on old cones, and there appears to be a minute amount of pooling of the surround sealer at the bottom. My old eyes aren't good enough to be absolutely sure about that last part.

Nevertheless, Dave makes some excellent points. I'd go armed with the correct cone numbers and a multi-meter. If things aren't correct, you will have reason to do some negotiating on the price.

Let us know how it works out, will 'ya?

GeeDeeEmm

Cheers for the great observations. Will update you all gow it goes. Thank you.

[Goldjazz]

...Also has anyone successfully bi-amped a pair of 604e's? Might give this a try.

[speakerdave]

Probably been done. The passive crossovers have asymmetrical slopes, though, and may pull down the upper midrange a little as well. Because of the physical limitations of the design, the horn unloads too close to the crossover frequency, so the crossover incorporates a steeper slope for it, and without the frequency response compensations Altec thought were necessary, the speaker will not sound right. The later 604 devotee crossovers must be considered individually. Some of them are said to be quite good.

[srm51555]

Might check this also:

http://home.earthlink.net/~jmarkwart/id22.html

Nice pickup, I've always been a dollar late or a dollar short when having chances to listen or purchase a pair. I always wanted to hear a pair at least. From what I read I would build what Grumpy has linked to and call it a day.

[1audiohack]

...Also has anyone successfully bi-amped a pair of 604e's? Might give this a try.


I bi-amped my 604-8G's, and liked them better but that was a long time ago. They have long been stored away with their original crossovers.

I occasionally ponder getting them out but there are many other projects that I would rather get done. Kinda sad to leave them sitting.

Barry.

[Goldjazz]

Probably been done. The passive crossovers have asymmetrical slopes, though, and may pull down the upper midrange a little as well. Because of the physical limitations of the design, the horn unloads too close to the crossover frequency, so the crossover incorporates a steeper slope for it, and without the frequency response compensations Altec thought were necessary, the speaker will not sound right. The later 604 devotee crossovers must be considered individually. Some of them are said to be quite good.



Interesting i can apply different crossover points and hi and low pass slopes individualy with my First Watt B4.

[Goldjazz]

I bi-amped my 604-8G's, and liked them better but that was a long time ago. They have long been stored away with their original crossovers.

I occasionally ponder getting them out but there are many other projects that I would rather get done. Kinda sad to leave them sitting.

Barry.

ah yes too many projects, not enough time. I know it well. Interesting to know you preferred them biamped.

[rusty jefferson]

Perhaps while the DEQX people are showing you the active route with your other pair of speakers........?

[gdmoore28]

D-day tomorrow?

GeeDeeEmm

[Goldjazz]

D-day tomorrow?

GeeDeeEmm



....



Yep got em. You were spot on about the edge doping dripping, great eyes man. They look (and sound) legit. Will start posting pics shortly. These are the first speakers to make my 4343's look small. They're not taller, they're wider and deeper, seem to have a little bit more volume.

Just been listening to them for the past 30 mins or so. Very clear and present, a little rolled off down low....very nice. Looking forward to cleaning up the pots in the crossover, maybe even biamping them. Will take the fronts off and show inside pics shortly.

Thanks

[Goldjazz]

Here's some pics. Note the scale ref against the 4343's. The internal shots were taken by reaching in the ports with my phone. Cabinets are pretty scratched up but they are certainly well built. Front baffle is 2" thick. I got these from a guy, who got them from an elderly woman who's husband sipped them over from the states in the 70's.

[Goldjazz]

This is with Hi freq attenuation set to about 2. Interested to try them biamped as well and measure.

Quite a bit more, rolled off in at the low and hi end compared to my 4343's and not as flat.

Mic was placed at listening position. Which is around a little under 6 feet away from the speakers. Speakers are about 6 feet seperated and toe'd in quite a bit and aimed directly at me. They're up on milk crates which is probably about 12" off the ground. They're throwing up a nice image that seems as if its coming from 6 feet off the ground about 10 feet away in the center.

Driving them with a 30 watt class A mosfet amp (Accuphase A-30, and a Mark levinson ML-1 pre)

[Goldjazz]

Perhaps while the DEQX people are showing you the active route with your other pair of speakers........?

Yeah for the fully active 4343 project I'm waiting for my fourth amplifier (a Yamaha B-1) to come back from service. Also need to open up the 4343's to wire them directly to the amp, and build a hifi rack that can hold 4 amps as well as the DEQX gear and a turtable. So that project probably wont come to fruition for a month or so. So yeah playing around with these 604e's will be fun.

[Goldjazz]

Heres one of the drivers

[Goldjazz]

X over. Theres some seriously sturdy bracing in this cabinet.

[srm51555]

Real nice, thanks for sharing.

[speakerdave]

The real thing in pretty decent shape. Possible moisture exposure. Those cabinets look about the size of Big Reds, which were probably meant to be soffit-mounted.

It can be dangerous to measure 604's ;). Best to just enjoy them. Neither that tactile midrange nor the bass-treble contiguity of the coaxial form show up on the graphs. Of course if you can smooth the response with DEQX, that might be something to hear.

[Goldjazz]

The real thing in pretty decent shape. Possible moisture exposure. Those cabinets look about the size of Big Reds, which were probably meant to be soffit-mounted.

It can be dangerous to measure 604's ;). Best to just enjoy them. Neither that tactile midrange nor the bass-treble contiguity of the coaxial form show up on the graphs. Of course if you can smooth the response with DEQX, that might be something to hear.

Yeah i agree. What ive found with regard to measurement is its a good tool to gwt you in the ball park but ultimately you need to trust your ears. So for my 4343 i start with what the graphs say is the flattest respo ae then i tweak from there based on the ears. The deqx thing im gonna try with the 4343s will be a break with thia as ill be leaving it entirely up to the syatem to correct for the room amd eq and stuff..will be intersting.

[Goldjazz]

So I've also just tried biamping them, plot attached. Haven't tried to apply any EQ. I think they sound a bit more open, lively and detailed when biamped.

[Goldjazz]

Man they sound pretty incredible on acoustic stuff. Was just listening ths blue raincoat by Leonard Cohen , with the the lights turned off..crazy good

[speakerdave]

I have a long-postponed project to re-enclose my 604-8G's, make some Yuichi horns for them and connect the UREI 828 crossovers I have on the shelf. You are inspiring me to move on it.

[Goldjazz]

I have a long-postponed project to re-enclose my 604-8G's, make some Yuichi horns for them and connect the UREI 828 crossovers I have on the shelf. You are inspiring me to move on it.

Awesome, get in there!

[gdmoore28]

Yeah i agree. What ive found with regard to measurement is its a good tool to gwt you in the ball park but ultimately you need to trust your ears. So for my 4343 i start with what the graphs say is the flattest respo ae then i tweak from there based on the ears. The deqx thing im gonna try with the 4343s will be a break with thia as ill be leaving it entirely up to the syatem to correct for the room amd eq and stuff..will be intersting.

Man, I'm having so much fun reading your adventure on this project. Could I make a personal plea to you, though? Please turn your spell check function on! You're making me work too hard to decipher some of your sentences. ;)

GeeDeeEmm

[gdmoore28]

It can be dangerous to measure 604's ;). Best to just enjoy them.

Can I get an "amen?" Yes. Yes you may!

GeeDeeEmm

[Chas]

I had 811's and 511's and they always sounded best if, from a listening position, one could see the HF driver in the throat. Not sure if that is applicable to the 604, but I suspect it is the same.

[Goldjazz]

I had 811's and 511's and they always sounded best if, from a listening position, one could see the HF driver in the throat. Not sure if that is applicable to the 604, but I suspect it is the same.
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Yep I think that is also true for the 604e just put them up a bit higher than that photo below, so I can see down the throat from the seated position and I think it's better.

[Goldjazz]

Man, I'm having so much fun reading your adventure on this project. Could I make a personal plea to you, though? Please turn your spell check function on! You're making me work too hard to decipher some of your sentences. ;)

GeeDeeEmm
/

Ha sorry those messages with errors were sent from my phone. Not spelling errors, but typos from my fat fingers hitting the wrong letters on my phone. Glad you've enjoyed the thread.