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sebackman
03-10-2017, 11:44 PM
The Be diaphragms fall off much earlier compared to the rest. And the sensitivity reduction is not linear so it is a bit tricky to adjust.


Hence you need a lot of boost in the DSP to compensate for the UHF and even then it is diffucult to get the sparkles on top. That is pobably why JBL uses UHF with all Be designs.

I do the same and use 045's with Be both in VTX and M2 WG's. I just sounds better to me even if the BSS DSP can get close without the 045's. With SL diaphragms it is much easier to leave 045's out.

Kind regards
//Rob

bubbleboy76
03-11-2017, 01:59 AM
The Be diaphragms fall off much earlier compared to the rest. And the sensitivity reduction is not linear so it is a bit tricky to adjust.


Hence you need a lot of boost in the DSP to compensate for the UHF and even then it is diffucult to get the sparkles on top. That is pobably why JBL uses UHF with all Be designs.

I do the same and use 045's with Be both in VTX and M2 WG's. I just sounds better to me even if the BSS DSP can get close without the 045's. With SL diaphragms it is much easier to leave 045's out.

Kind regards
//Rob

That is surely one factor. But, the UHF are there for dispersion in most cases, it was stated (or quoted) by GT somewhere on this forum. And the fact that he did not use UHF with vertical horn (with BE) at home, but with horisontal, maybe confirms it.
Maybe :)

I think there are pros and cons with/without UHF, and it just a choice which factors to prioritize for a certain context.

Mr. Widget
03-11-2017, 09:45 AM
The Be diaphragms fall off much earlier compared to the rest. And the sensitivity reduction is not linear so it is a bit tricky to adjust.I think you may be confusing breakup mode output vs. distortion free output.

Also, are you talking about the JBL Be diaphragms with their diamond surround compared to Ti diaphragms with the diamond pattern surround or are you comparing non diamond pattern surrounded Be diaphragms with the JBL Ti diaphragms?


Widget

ivica
03-12-2017, 12:48 PM
I think you may be confusing breakup mode output vs. distortion free output.

Also, are you talking about the JBL Be diaphragms with their diamond surround compared to Ti diaphragms with the diamond pattern surround or are you comparing non diamond pattern surrounded Be diaphragms with the JBL Ti diaphragms?


Widget

Hi Widget,

I believe (from my measurements experiences) that non diamond pattern Be diaphragms are less UHF sensitive, unfortunately I have no experience with 476Be drivers with their JBL Be diaphragms to compare them with the other AL, TI, Ti-SL.... types, but comparing as an example JBL AL (diamond) and Radian 4" diahragms, I would say that JBL are more "vivid"

regards
ivica

Mr. Widget
03-12-2017, 02:27 PM
Hi Widget,

I believe (from my measurements experiences) that non diamond pattern Be diaphragms are less UHF sensitive, unfortunately I have no experience with 476Be drivers with their JBL Be diaphragms to compare them with the other AL, TI, Ti-SL.... types, but comparing as an example JBL AL (diamond) and Radian 4" diahragms, I would say that JBL are more "vivid"

regards
ivicaMy point exactly. One can't compare a Be diaphragm with a Mylar surround to an AL or Ti diamond surrounded diaphragm and consider the comparison a comparison of materials alone. Furthermore the Ti diaphragms have a pronounced breakup that to some sounds bright though to others it sounds aggressive.

That said, the non diamond surrounded Be diaphragms from TruExtent have significantly lower distortion with break up modes at much higher frequencies than AL or Ti.


Widget

sebackman
03-14-2017, 06:46 AM
Hi all,

Thank you Widget for input. You are absolutely right, the only Be's I have are the Truextent's with Mylar surround so I can't really comment on the original JBL 476Be.

My observations are based upon both listening and measurements and the Truextent Beís gives clearly lower UHF output than the SLís and the Tiís. And the roll off is not linear.

I run a fully active setup and can compensate for the UHF roll off on the Beís but to my ears addition of 045's sounds better, more relaxed. I use original K2 9800 horns for the 045ís.

Below are measures on SL, BE and Ti's on M2. Same 2451 core.

Kind regards
//Rob

763597636076361

Mr. Widget
03-14-2017, 07:27 AM
The Be diaphragms fall off much earlier compared to the rest. And the sensitivity reduction is not linear so it is a bit tricky to adjust.
From your measurements I would suggest the TruExtent diaphragms have a very smooth and controlled roll off up top which should be much easier to deal with than the breakup mode "enhanced" top end of the other two.

For many of us, a top end that is predominantly made up of breakup mode output can be rather grating and unpleasant.


Widget

Kalle
03-17-2017, 01:12 AM
Anyone tried the Radian 951pb BE Truextent?

http://www.behringer-electric.de/files/news/Radian_Truextent/Vergleichstest%20951PbTrExt4016%20vs%20476Be.pdf (german)

Is it closer to the 476BE than the 2450Sl/2451 with BE or is it more far off?

I have found very little info about the Radian device compared to the JBL`s.

Regards
Karl