Altec Valencia Rehab

[roblectric]

Previously I posted about a basket case barn find of a pair of JBL L300's. I counted my chickens before I had possession of them and karma bit my arse and the deal never happened. After a brief mourning period I am now in possession of a pair of Altec Valencia 846A.

These are in much better shape than the JBL's which will make the restoration much easier. First on the agenda will be removing the drivers and getting the cabinets back to original condition or better. One of the cabinet bases suffered some water damage and the plywood delaminated on one of the rear base pieces and pretty much fell off. I have the (walnut???) veneer piece so the repair should be easy. Other than that, they should only require a light sanding and refinish.

As expected, the lattice grills are another story. They were intact before I loaded them in the truck and I managed to put my knee into one and it cracked. Once home I tried to remove it and made it worse, so I have one grill destroyed. These lattice grills were made of plastic and  were probably never removed. I had to pry the remaining plastic and cloth from the slots on each side of the cabinet. I have read that some Valencias had wood lattice. I briefly explored that option to have an exact pattern match custom made. $$$ Currently I am waiting for a quote for pvc replacements.

I have confirmed that all drivers work but not sure about replacement parts for the crossovers. Any suggestions? ( I have searched and read through the Valencia crossover threads. Made my head hurt.)After I complete repairs I will decide whether or not to keep them. I will do a side by side comparison with my current setup,Pioneer SX1080 and Pioneer HPM150.

[gsb001]

Please share pictures and keep them coming as you work through the restoration.
Thank you
SB
HuntleyAudio.com
http://stores.ebay.com/huntleyaudio/

[roblectric]

Made a preliminary inspection in the workshop. Removed back covers and found 2 LF drivers screws laying on the insulation that must have been loose and fell out on the way home. Hooked them up to a receiver and verified that all drivers work but was not impressed with the sound. Weather here is still pretty cold so not a whole lot will happen until spring. Curiosity will probably get the better of me and I will have to inspect the crossovers before then. Driver removal and cabinet repair/refinish to follow.


75748

75749

75751

75750

[gdmoore28]

Congratulations on snagging the Valencias! Before you begin the electronics restoration, be sure to read this and the noted links:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/z19-crossover.328530/

Thanks to Zilch and associates, the research and experience is there to make the Valencias really sing and deliver the kind of sound they are capable of.

Thanks for posting, and keep us informed.

GeeDeeEmm

[roblectric]

Congratulations on snagging the Valencias! Before you begin the electronics restoration, be sure to read this and the noted links:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/z19-crossover.328530/

Thanks to Zilch and associates, the research and experience is there to make the Valencias really sing and deliver the kind of sound they are capable of.

Thanks for posting, and keep us informed.

GeeDeeEmm


Unfortunately I am a retired industrial electrician that has a hard time understanding most of the technical information in the above mentioned thread. All I can do at this point, with any confidence , is make the cabinets look pretty ,use a DMM, and simple soldering.

Will most likely be selling these and would like opinions about upgrading the crossover or just leaving it alone. Would collectors value them higher in as found condition?

[roblectric]

Today I removed/destroyed the grill on the second speaker. Removed the drivers so now the cabinets are ready for some tlc.

806A both at 8 Ohms
416Z both at 10 ohms
Wasn't expecting that. Normal?

[Earl K]

Today I removed/destroyed the grill on the second speaker. Removed the drivers so now the cabinets are ready for some tlc.

806A both at 8 Ohms
416Z both at 10 ohms
Wasn't expecting that. Normal?

Those DCR values are pretty typical for components of that vintage.

A lot of Altec stuff back in the 50's to mid-60's was actually ( or should have been labelled as ) 12 ohms .

:)

[gdmoore28]

Rob,
What many people who decide to upgrade the crossover do is build another one from scratch and save the original for resale. The original is a fairly basic 12db/octave crossover, nothing very complicated at all. Most folks recommend at least replacing the capacitors in the original, especially if the sound is suffering ill effects, as you say your's is. (Can you give us a more detailed explanation of exactly what you are hearing?)

One of the other Altec guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your crossover may be one of those whose components are sealed in a tar-like substance that makes capacitor replacement rather difficult. You will be able to confirm whether this is correct once you open it up. If the sealer is not there, then it's simply a matter of replacing the capacitors with ones of like value. The caps are available from many sources, such as Parts Express. It's also very important to clean the inside of the horn attenuator (L-pad, level control, whatever one wishes to call it) with DeOxit cleaner. Sometimes it's possible to restore proper order by simply moving the knob from one extreme to the other a dozen times or so. They have a tendency to corrode at the contacts inside.

If the crossover is sealed, and you want to avoid the hassle of dealing with the sealer, it's a simple matter to duplicate the original with new components. You will need only to read the very simple schematic for that crossover, available on numerous sites, including this one and the Altec Users Board ( http://www.hostboard.com/forums/f700/altec-users-board.html ). Speaking of which, you may want to add your post and pictures to that sight, too. Many, many excellent and very helpful Altec specialists on that site with much, much more knowledge than I. If you have trouble finding a link to your specific crossover schematic, let us know and we'll find it for you.

You have some very nice speakers there, and they will be a fun and rewarding project. Once you have them dialed back in to proper specs, you will then be able to do some serious listening and determine if the "Altec sound" is for you. Some people love the Valencias, others not so much. One thing for certain, if it turns out that you don't care for them, there will be a ready market for resale.

Keep us informed with your progress. And more pics, of course!!!

GeeDeeEmm

[roblectric]

Those DCR values are pretty typical for components of that vintage.

A lot of Altec stuff back in the 50's to mid-60's was actually ( or should have been labelled as ) 12 ohms .

:)

Thanks for the confirmation that nothing is amiss with the drivers.

[roblectric]

Rob,
What many people who decide to upgrade the crossover do is build another one from scratch and save the original for resale. The original is a fairly basic 12db/octave crossover, nothing very complicated at all. Most folks recommend at least replacing the capacitors in the original, especially if the sound is suffering ill effects, as you say your's is. (Can you give us a more detailed explanation of exactly what you are hearing?)

One of the other Altec guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your crossover may be one of those whose components are sealed in a tar-like substance that makes capacitor replacement rather difficult. You will be able to confirm whether this is correct once you open it up. If the sealer is not there, then it's simply a matter of replacing the capacitors with ones of like value. The caps are available from many sources, such as Parts Express. It's also very important to clean the inside of the horn attenuator (L-pad, level control, whatever one wishes to call it) with DeOxit cleaner. Sometimes it's possible to restore proper order by simply moving the knob from one extreme to the other a dozen times or so. They have a tendency to corrode at the contacts inside.

If the crossover is sealed, and you want to avoid the hassle of dealing with the sealer, it's a simple matter to duplicate the original with new components. You will need only to read the very simple schematic for that crossover, available on numerous sites, including this one and the Altec Users Board ( http://www.hostboard.com/forums/f700/altec-users-board.html ). Speaking of which, you may want to add your post and pictures to that sight, too. Many, many excellent and very helpful Altec specialists on that site with much, much more knowledge than I. If you have trouble finding a link to your specific crossover schematic, let us know and we'll find it for you.

You have some very nice speakers there, and they will be a fun and rewarding project. Once you have them dialed back in to proper specs, you will then be able to do some serious listening and determine if the "Altec sound" is for you. Some people love the Valencias, others not so much. One thing for certain, if it turns out that you don't care for them, there will be a ready market for resale.

Keep us informed with your progress. And more pics, of course!!!

GeeDeeEmm

Building a new crossover sounds like an interesting project for me. Always up for a challenge that I have no clue how to complete. Then again, I could always buy one and leave the original unmolested. I will look into all options. Thanks for the encouragement!

[roblectric]

Most of the images I see on google show the Altec badge attached to the grill. Mine are attached to the cabinet wood on the bottom right. Should I leave them there? What is the significance of the two locations?

[gdmoore28]

Rob, I've just scanned through roughly a hundred images using Google Images, and didn't come up with EVEN ONE IMAGE of Valencias wearing factory-styled tags behind the grills. I'd say that the previous owner simply liked the looks of the Valencias without grills, so he attached a pair for the sake of image! And I must say that I agree with that decision, don't you?I purchased a very nice pair of copper "maestro" tags from a gentleman on Ebay. The workmanship was excellent, and the copper is real, not plated. The price was reasonable, too. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Altec-Rectangular-Copper-badge-/142269985873?hash=item211ff3b451:g:d3IAAOxyVaBSsOh 0

GeeDeeEmm

[roblectric]

Rob, I've just scanned through roughly a hundred images using Google Images, and didn't come up with EVEN ONE IMAGE of Valencias wearing factory-styled tags behind the grills. I'd say that the previous owner simply liked the looks of the Valencias without grills, so he attached a pair for the sake of image! And I must say that I agree with that decision, don't you?I purchased a very nice pair of copper "maestro" tags from a gentleman on Ebay. The workmanship was excellent, and the copper is real, not plated. The price was reasonable, too. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Altec-Rectangular-Copper-badge-/142269985873?hash=item211ff3b451:g:d3IAAOxyVaBSsOh 0

GeeDeeEmm


This is where my logos are attached.


75911

[gdmoore28]

That's very odd. Are they attached with adhesive? I'm wondering if they had a tendency to become detached from the grill, so the previous owner decided to attach them where they would be less likely to fall off?

The way things typically go on these type of inquiries, though, is that somebody will chime in and say that their Valencias were delivered with the same type of label mount, and then we will discover that they were factory-mounted that way for two years only!

I wish the other Altec guys would chime in on this one. We need some more input.

GeeDeeEmm

[roblectric]

That's very odd. Are they attached with adhesive? I'm wondering if they had a tendency to become detached from the grill, so the previous owner decided to attach them where they would be less likely to fall off?

The way things typically go on these type of inquiries, though, is that somebody will chime in and say that their Valencias were delivered with the same type of label mount, and then we will discover that they were factory-mounted that way for two years only!

I wish the other Altec guys would chime in on this one. We need some more input.

GeeDeeEmm

BTW That is not a pic of my speaker. Have only seen a couple on google images with the logo mounted there. Just curious if it does date them to a specific time period. If there is nothing significant about the location I might move them when I get the new grills.

[gdmoore28]

I was unable to locate any with that location, but if you've found others with that attachment, it must have been a period Altec placement. As I've said, I'm hardly an Altec specialist by any means, but every day somebody posts something that is new to many of us. Your's is another to filed away in the ever-decaying memory banks!

In the end, though, you have a set of heritage Altec speakers that somebody originally paid a hefty chunk of money for. Looking forward to watching you bring them back to their former glory!

GeeDeeEmm

[roblectric]

Warm temps will allow me to get moving on the Valencia cabinets this weekend. Will post some before/after pics.

Already have my next project in the pipeline. Picking up a minty pair of C61 Sovereign II tomorrow.

[roblectric]

Just finished moving these lovely's into the house. Turning my attentions to the Valencia's cabinets. I will deal with these later.

76054

[gdmoore28]

Beautiful Sovereigns! This is going to be an interesting thread, Rob! Thanks for posting it.

GeeDeeEmm

[roblectric]

Beautiful Sovereigns! This is going to be an interesting thread, Rob! Thanks for posting it.

GeeDeeEmm


The JBL's are very distracting when I should be working on the Altec's. As soon as the grandkids are gone its out to the workshop.

I have determined that they have the S7 system given the LX5 crossover. Lansaloy (sp?) surrounds pretty stiff. Will take a close look later for cracks. Hard to resist a low volume test. Might try to sell as found and see what kind of interest there is.

[roblectric]

Here's what I had to start with. Not too bad but needs freshening up.

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[roblectric]

And the final result.

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[gdmoore28]

Wow! What a beautiful set of cabinets you have there!

Keep in mind that we are on a largely JBL site here, but you can be assured that the pics and info you are posting will be showing up on searches by Altec fans for many years to come. They'll be using your posts to compare their own Valencias and others as they do their own restoration.

It's just incredible that such fine examples as yours have managed to survive all these years relatively unscathed.

I have grandkids, too, but they no longer serve as good excuses for my laziness! It used to work, though!

GeeDeeEmm

[roblectric]

Thanks GDM for taking an interest in my thread. There have been only two other folks that have posted but over 600 views at this point.
I will be listing the Valencia's and the Sovereign's in the product marketplace thread when I get everything back together. If no interest there I will try EBay.
Still have a little bit of work to do with one of the bases on the Valencia cabinets.

[gdmoore28]

Rob,
Are you aware of the tremendous amount of work that the late, great "Zilch" and others did on developing the "Z19" crossover for what was initially a Valencia project? If not, it's an exhaustive, interesting read:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?14690-Look-at-my-new-babies-Altec-846Bs-w-EV-Tweeters!

Follow the provided links, too. Seems everybody with interest in the Model 19 and Valencias knows about these mods by now, but just in case . . . .

GeeDeeEmm

[bigyank]

Rob, awesome work on those cabinets. Very nicely done.

[roblectric]

Rob,
Are you aware of the tremendous amount of work that the late, great "Zilch" and others did on developing the "Z19" crossover for what was initially a Valencia project? If not, it's an exhaustive, interesting read:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?14690-Look-at-my-new-babies-Altec-846Bs-w-EV-Tweeters!

Follow the provided links, too. Seems everybody with interest in the Model 19 and Valencias knows about these mods by now, but just in case . . . .

GeeDeeEmm

I did read that thread. Made my head spin with the technical lingo that I am slightly familiar with but too dangerous to attempt on my own.

[roblectric]

Rob, awesome work on those cabinets. Very nicely done.

Thank you bigyank. Its amazing what a $10 can of Howards Reatore a Finish can do.

[roblectric]

Decided not to do anything with the crossovers yet and reinstalled the drivers. Took them for a test drive and I am impressed. Might be keepers.

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[roblectric]

Grills on the cheap. Nine gauge flattened expanded aluminum with some black speaker cloth tacked behind.

76307

[roblectric]

Won't be long now and I will have them back in the house for a side by side test.

[hsosdrum]

Grills on the cheap. Nine gauge flattened expanded aluminum with some black speaker cloth tacked behind.



Well-done! I especially like how the grilles turned out. How do they sound?

[gdmoore28]

Those grills turned out quite nice. Can you explain a bit more on what you mean by "flattened" expanded aluminum? Hope you took pics of the flattening process (just a hammer and anvil?), as I expect your idea may be adapted to a number of applications.

GeeDeeEmm

[JeffW]

Those grills turned out quite nice. Can you explain a bit more on what you mean by "flattened" expanded aluminum? Hope you took pics of the flattening process (just a hammer and anvil?), as I expect your idea may be adapted to a number of applications.

GeeDeeEmm

You buy it like that. Expanded metal comes either flat or raised (standard).

And Rob, please don't take the lack of replies vs views as a lack of interest - I know I love seeing these threads, but I generally have no relevant input so I just lurk.

[BillWojo]

First post here, just joined up today. Nice find, I have a set of HeathKit AS101's, basically Altec Valencias in nicer cabinets. I believe you have the 16 ohm version, early ones were 8 ohm. If your looking for schematics for the crossovers it matters a lot. The capacitor and inductor values will be different.
I was blown away from the sound of my AS101's when I got them. They had just been recapped as a bonus. Made the mistake of reading all I could find on Valencias and the AS101's and have been on a modifying binge ever since.
Started with replacing the 806 drivers with 902 drivers and adapter plates that I tapper bored to match the 7/8" exit hole of the 902 driver to the 1" hole in the 811 horns. Sounded better but the mid range was to hot. Added 30409 attenuator boards in the high frequency section and that really smoothed out the mid range. They really sounded good now. Diana Krall comes into my living room and sings just for ME! Superb midrange with awesome dynamics. Nice bass, they just sound so realistic.
So now I see that I have the same driver load as the flagship Model 19 speakers, just in a smaller volume cabinet. I wonder what a set of Model 19 crossovers would do? It moves the crossover point up from 800Hz to 1200Hz and adds L-pads for mid and HF attenuation. The L-pads do sort of what the 30409 attenuator does but allows adjustability. Sweet.
The crossovers are almost done, they are a bit of eye candy that will be mounted externally on top. Need to finish the walnut bases and get them installed. You can read about them here: http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/my-altec-model-19-crossover-build.755361/
I would suggest that you either rebuild or replace the crossovers before making the decision to sell.
I know I'm on a JBL forum and it's my first post, hope I don't get escorted out of here. LOL

BillWojo

[JeffW]

Nah, you're good, Bill. The header at the top of the forums:

General discussion on Lansing products (Altec Lansing, Lansing Manufacturing, JBL)

Welcome aboard!

[gdmoore28]

Hi Bill,
And welcome to the board. I'm a newcomer here, too, but you'll find several familiar folks from the Altec site. I'm on the same crossover hunt that you are on, except that I'm still gathering parts and doing research for my first attempt.

Yesterday, I ran across a thread from Zilch in which he discussed the 30904 network again. In it, he offers numbers for converting the network to 16 ohm use and offers advice on inserting an Lpad to make the mid-frequency attenuation adjustable without affecting the hi frequency output. In essence, it becomes an easily-modified version of the 30904 while allowing you to keep your chosen crossover frequency. In case you haven't seen it:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/using-altec-30904-atteuator-with-511-416.155640/

GeeDeeEmm

[gdmoore28]

You buy it like that. Expanded metal comes either flat or raised (standard).

And Rob, please don't take the lack of replies vs views as a lack of interest - I know I love seeing these threads, but I generally have no relevant input so I just lurk.

Yep, after I posted that question I began to think that I'd mis-interpreted his post. For some reason, that "flattened" adjective hit my feeble mind like a verb! Dumb.

GeeDeeEmm

[BillWojo]

Thanks for the welcome aboard guys.
Zilch's post about the 30409 attenuator is a good one. Since most if not all the parts are getting replaced to convert it to 16 ohm, it makes sense to just build them from scratch.

BillWojo

[srm51555]

Hi Bill,
And welcome to the board. I'm a newcomer here, too, but you'll find several familiar folks from the Altec site. I'm on the same crossover hunt that you are on, except that I'm still gathering parts and doing research for my first attempt.

Yesterday, I ran across a thread from Zilch in which he discussed the 30904 network again. In it, he offers numbers for converting the network to 16 ohm use and offers advice on inserting an Lpad to make the mid-frequency attenuation adjustable without affecting the hi frequency output. In essence, it becomes an easily-modified version of the 30904 while allowing you to keep your chosen crossover frequency. In case you haven't seen it:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/using-altec-30904-atteuator-with-511-416.155640/

GeeDeeEmm

I've built both 8 and 16. One for me (8ohm) and one for a friend (16ohm). Well worth the price of admission. I think that was one of my very first posts on any type of forum.

Zilch was a good man and he is missed by all. I recently went on memory lane reading some of his project work here and on AK.

Thanks,
Scott

Note: 400th post

[gdmoore28]

I've built both 8 and 16. One for me (8ohm) and one for a friend (16ohm). Well worth the price of admission. I think that was one of my very first posts on any type of forum.

Zilch was a good man and he is missed by all. I recently went on memory lane reading some of his project work here and on AK.

Thanks,
Scott

Note: 400th post

Congratulations on post #400, Scott! I wasn't active on the board(s) back when Zilch was still alive, but when I finally decided to build my long-wanted speaker system utilizing Altec A-7 components, his posts showed up first and I was introduced to "Zilch World!" What a rich volume of work he blessed us with! It seems as though every board has one or two "go-to" guys who are ready to invest hours of research and work to help others bring their projects to fruition. Zilch was the king of that kingdom.

On the 30904 topic, can you describe for me the sonic differences you encountered with the 30904 (ne, 30923) networks installed in the two projects you mention? Did you do any experimentation such as altering the R2 values? Do you feel that the frequencies affected were appropriate for best effect? Seems I recall reading that the network delivers about 6dB attenuation. Was that adequate in your case, or do you feel it needs to be deeper - say, in the range of 8-10dB? Did you notice any effect on the high frequencies other than making them more prominent? Do you feel that adding a super tweeter would be beneficial, or is the newly-found HF accentuation enough to add that "sparkle" or "air" that many feel is missing in the two-way Altec systems?

I know that your answers to these questions will be almost purely subjective, but that's what I want - your opinion. On the other hand, if you did any measurements pre-and post-network, that information would be quite welcome. (And measurement, in my opinion, is what made Zilch's work so fascinating and so important. While that kind of data certainly isn't the last word in speaker design, it certainly vividly displays that what we are doing - and hearing - is or is not the result of "wishful hearing!)

GeeDeeEmm

[BillWojo]

While I'm not Scott, I can give you my impression of the attenuator. After replacing the 806 drivers in my HeathKit AS101's with a set of 902's I noticed that the upper midrange was very hot. I had picked up a set of the 30409 attenuators from Ebay in anticipation of this. So I added them (never recapped them, I should have) and noticed a much more balanced output. They really made a nice difference. My late friend, David AKA Rex Aeterna was there when I made the change, he had great ears and said the high end was much better balanced. My hearing drops like a rock at 10K unfortunately. I even played a test CD with a frequency sweep, he told me when it shut off at 20K. So I guess that it works well on the upper end as well.

BillWojo

[srm51555]

.....On the 30904 topic, can you describe for me the sonic differences you encountered with the 30904 (ne, 30923) networks installed in the two projects you mention? Did you do any experimentation such as altering the R2 values? Do you feel that the frequencies affected were appropriate for best effect? Seems I recall reading that the network delivers about 6dB attenuation. Was that adequate in your case, or do you feel it needs to be deeper - say, in the range of 8-10dB? Did you notice any effect on the high frequencies other than making them more prominent? Do you feel that adding a super tweeter would be beneficial, or is the newly-found HF accentuation enough to add that "sparkle" or "air" that many feel is missing in the two-way Altec systems?

I know that your answers to these questions will be almost purely subjective, but that's what I want - your opinion. On the other hand, if you did any measurements pre-and post-network, that information would be quite welcome. (And measurement, in my opinion, is what made Zilch's work so fascinating and so important. While that kind of data certainly isn't the last word in speaker design, it certainly vividly displays that what we are doing - and hearing - is or is not the result of "wishful hearing!)

GeeDeeEmm

Going from memory in the stock configuration the 511 horn was really hot in the mids. With this crossover I felt everything was where it should be and it finally solved a problem I was fighting with for two years. I think I played around with R2 a bit since I turned it into a variable pot. My version of the 30904 also made it into a set of 846b's that I purchased. I tried to listen to them stock but just couldn't. I didn't feel it was too rolled off with either the 807 or 806 when comparing them to the model 19's, although adding a GPA 902 would have been my next move as Bill has mentioned. All of those Altecs ended up getting sold, although I do still miss them sometimes.

I have heard a pair of Flamincos at a local shop with a super tweeter added and they sounded nice. I only got 5 minutes with them though. With most cases I think when you add some extension on top, you should to add some extension on the bottom too, or at least check your ok down there. T

The 16ohm versions I built got mounted into a pair of 846A Valencia's. Here I felt the HF was a bit rolled off. I did eq these with a DBX 20/10 for a friend and they got better, but I remember the HF and LF received a big boost.

I will be trying to EQ another pair of Altecs (416/511/806A all in 16ohns)in the near future with using REW and an old school eq. It's of course not going to be perfect as DSP but hopefully listenable.

Unfortunately I don't have any measurements.....yet

Thanks,
Scott

[roblectric]

Wow! Just when I thought this thread was going to die out and be a lurker classic. Finally finished the grill on the other speaker today. Next is getting them from the workshop into the house. I was able to get them from the tailgate of my truck and onto the sawhorse table by myself and that took everything this wore out body had in it. Getting them to the floor, where I can put a dolly under them, will require some assistance. I have already had two back surgeries and know my limitations.

How do they sound? At first I hooked them up to a modern Pioneer AV receiver and was not impressed. My other choice was a Sansui QR6500 that really woke them up. I cannot describe with detail, like some do, the nuances of lows,mid, and highs but I am not completely tone deaf. Should be after all the rock concerts I went to as a youngster. Popped in a cd of ZZtops greatest hits and immediately noticed some thump you in the chest bass and better overall mids and highs but something seemed missing. Took the same cd into the house and listened on my, ahem,vintage Pioneer system and found the detail that the Altec's lacked. I am sure a Zilch designed crossover would help but I haven't searched/found/saved to file the schematic yet.

Someone saw the JBL's I had and made me an offer that was too good to pass up. The woofers needed to be refoamed and I decided they were not a good choice for a first time rookie. I have a pair of JBL D123's that I will need to recone and will get my practice on them.

[roblectric]

After re reading some of the old threads, the Behringer 3400 crossover was mentioned. Has anyone tried this with their stock 846A's?

[roblectric]

Had the Altecs in the house for a few days now for comparison with my "other" speakers. Sadly they did not win. Will post in marketplace.

[gdmoore28]

I was afraid that might be the case. Horn-based speakers are simply NOT part of everybody's taste, experience, and accumulated expectations of how a speaker should sound. This is especially true of horn systems that have not been massaged to compensate for the very "forward" midrange frequencies. And that's no shame. It's just a matter of taste.

And that is exactly why I keep cone-based and horn-based speakers on hand, though my Altecs are out of the loop right now. My horn moods are filled by a pair of Heresies at present. Sometimes I'm in the mood for one, sometimes for the other.

Thanks for posting your adventure, Rob. I'm sure you'll be having some more speaker forays and I've love to see you post them here for all of us to enjoy.

GeeDeeEmm

[roblectric]

Thanks GDM. Its not that they didn't sound good. The bass shook my innards but the mid highs were not as detailed as my current setup. Maybe I can find some 19's next.

I need to do some more studying before I attempt building a better crossover for speakers like this. At least whoever gets them will have an original speaker, sans grills, to start with.

[hjames]

Hi Rob! What a nice read ... Altec Valencias AND Sovreigns?? Nice finds!
I just snagged a pair of Heathkit AS101s (sort of Valencias) Saturday night - I'm still working out delivery details and such (prob uShip)
to get it to me in Virginia, just outside DC!
Think I'll be stepping down that crossover rebuild path once I get some time with the - I mean, I know crossovers suffer over 40+ years ...
Anyway, there are a lot of readers on the site who don't post - heck, I've been on this site a number of years with the JBL fever -
I'm just starting with Altecs as of some Model 15s I got in December! And I'll sell them off to fund the Heathkits!

79786



Wow! Just when I thought this thread was going to die out and be a lurker classic. Finally finished the grill on the other speaker today. Next is getting them from the workshop into the house. I was able to get them from the tailgate of my truck and onto the sawhorse table by myself and that took everything this wore out body had in it. Getting them to the floor, where I can put a dolly under them, will require some assistance. I have already had two back surgeries and know my limitations.

How do they sound? At first I hooked them up to a modern Pioneer AV receiver and was not impressed. My other choice was a Sansui QR6500 that really woke them up. I cannot describe with detail, like some do, the nuances of lows,mid, and highs but I am not completely tone deaf. Should be after all the rock concerts I went to as a youngster. Popped in a cd of ZZtops greatest hits and immediately noticed some thump you in the chest bass and better overall mids and highs but something seemed missing. Took the same cd into the house and listened on my, ahem,vintage Pioneer system and found the detail that the Altec's lacked. I am sure a Zilch designed crossover would help but I haven't searched/found/saved to file the schematic yet.

Someone saw the JBL's I had and made me an offer that was too good to pass up. The woofers needed to be refoamed and I decided they were not a good choice for a first time rookie. I have a pair of JBL D123's that I will need to recone and will get my practice on them.