Planning new speakers

[Singer-Man]

I am ready to start planning a DIY speaker set for my home stereo system -- no home home theater use. I presently utilize a pair of RCF SCD 6000 studio monitors. These are 3-way with 12" woofers; the boxes are builtby RCF the internals are deigned and build by EAW. They are fine-sounding speakers, but I'd like something with little more'beef' on the bottom.


It has been about 18 years since I've had the opportunity to hear any of the big JBL or Altec speaker sets. I am, however, enamored with the looks of several of these 3-way sets, for instance the 4343s. I think that they must be useful for more than rock music. About 80% of what I listen to is classical music, about 10% jazz, with rock and popular music the remainder. Even though I listen mainly to classical music I do demand want to achieve very good bass response -- in proportion to the full audio spectrum..


Can you guy srecommend a particular set of JBLs or Altecs that I might clone whose characteristics might fit the bill for me? I have heard several opinions from other sites which suggest that JBL sets past or present are not for classical music. I don't know how than can be. (Perhaps they assume that classical music listeners are either very rich with four auditorium-sized Klipschorns, or a guy who listens through bookshelf speakers in his slippers while puffing a pipe and reading Dante.) So, I could use some experienced insights and food for thought, please.


Thanks

[BMWCCA]

Plenty of information here on DIY 4345. In my experience, they can play any type of music and would certainly provide the bass response you seek without the need for a subwoofer. :dont-know:

[quindecima]

I have DIY 4345's and play classical and it sounds very, very nice. PLENTY of bottom end

[Ed Kreamer]

Hi Singer-Man,

Have you thought about building a sub ( 2 would be even better ) and using your present speakers for say 40Hz and up? If you are not unhappy with your present speakers maybe that is what you should do. I've never heard of your speakers before today and have zero knowledge of them, but it sounds like you like them. EAW builds some pretty good stuff. I wouldn't try to dissuade you from building 4343's of 4345's if that is what you want to do and they are very accurate. both will reach down for those 32ft organ pedals. But then so would a good pair of subs.

Ed

[SteveJewels]

I am, however, enamored with the looks of several of these 3-way sets, for instance the 4343s.

The I look at the many offerings of JBL the more interesting 4343's and 4345's are. I have 2235H's, which are the woofer in the 4343 and I have some 2405's, the tweeter in both. I also have 2445's and 2446's which I think will work ok.

It seems as though the 2122H is hard to find. That might be an obstacle.

Note: both the 4343 and 4345 are 4 way speakers.

[Singer-Man]

Hi Ed,

You can quickly google a picture by typing 'RCF SCD-6000" The dimensions are:27"H x 14"D x 15"W.


The idea of subs would be an efficient solution in a different situation. My good old Adcom preamp doesn't have a sub out and I'm no fan of splitting the lines that way


One of my issues is that, in spite of the 12" woofers, these are mid-field monitors intended for studio mixing and mastering. So the speakers should be not more than 3-4 feet apart and about 7-8 feet from the listener. In the listening space I have the speakers are 10 feet apart and I sit 11-12 feet from the front of the speakers.




I'm replacing the Adcom with a CJ ET3 next month -- another reason why I'd like to upgrade the speakers and use a two-cabinet solution with 15" woofers..My power amp is a 300W per-channel Emotiva XPA-2, a pretty decent amp for the money, and as a solid-state amp will match-up well with the new CJ tube preamp. It will suffice at least until I get new speakers ready.


So the EAW speakers and the Adcom will be moved into my bedroom. I'm now trying to decide between building the 4344 or the 4345.

[Ruediger]

<snip>

The idea of subs would be an efficient solution in a different situation. My good old Adcom preamp doesn't have a sub out and I'm no fan of splitting the lines that way

<snip>

You are into tubes. So do a search for "tube active crossover". There are several ones.

Ruediger

[quindecima]

If you have some room check out my 4351 thread, I'm about to finish up on those plus i'm not the first to build them. You will need a little room though. You can just about forget about the 2122's if you find some they will already be connected to a pair of operational speakers otherwise teeth for chickens are more readily available.

[Singer-Man]

Thanks to all for your replies as well as the info on the external crossovers for use with subs etc.

I would prefer to build a two-piece set without external active crossovers and subs, probably a pair of 4344 or 4345s.

I have been looking through and admiring the work in several of the build threads here including those by "Dr.db" and "quindecima ." Though this will be my first DIY speaker build, I am a woodworker, so I expect to be able to get through that part of the build o.k..

With notions of a "pure" reproduction clone temporarily put aside, a question:

I understand that it is quite difficult to get these vintage woofers, mids, and compression drivers in decent shape, and that a significant amount of effort and expense can be spent in re-coning and otherwise refurbishing them.

Surely some of the modern JBL parts should be of nearly as high quality --although I have heard that it can be difficult to get them to sell individual parts without serial numbers etc. Many people claim that Great Plains Audio is building very fine modern equivalents.

Now, I see that internal network/crossovers are designed with certain speakers in mind, and those speakers have particular characteristics.

Supposing that one could not find the exact vintage speakers and sought to replace those with modern top-of-the-line equivalents, JBL, GPA, etc. Would the results necessarily be a lesser sound quality -- even if the network,the box dimensions, and baffling etc. were made exactly like the vintage?

I'd be tempted to say, not necessarily, but I'd like to hear your opinions. Thanks!

[Singer-Man]

Well, through the friend of a new acquaintance I had the chance to hear a big box JBLfor the first time in many years. In this case it was a pair of4343s , apparently original condition UN-refurbished, which the guyinherited from his dad. He was nice enough to serve us coffee and we chatted as I ran several of my own CDs through his system. He was using an old Technics receiver and a Bryston 3B.


Just between you and I, I was a little underwhelmed. I was surprised by the lack of balance between tweets, mids, and woofers, as well as a general lack of tonal precision and ‘air.’. Now, some of this was probably due to the age of the units. (Who knows what shape the internal electronics are in.) The speaker placement was good and I’d say that there was a good mix of reflective and non-reflective surfaces in the room.


As luck would have it, I’m hoping to get a listen to a pair of 250Ti – waiting to find out about that. I’m curious, perhaps I’ll learn something from the owner. But even if they sound real fine, I’m not interested in cloning that model; I doubt if I can get past the goofy Star Wars look of them, subjective, I know.


Anyway, I’m doing lots of reading. the research continues...

[Mr. Widget]

Well, through the friend of a new acquaintance I had the chance to hear a big box JBLfor the first time in many years. In this case it was a pair of4343s , apparently original condition UN-refurbished, which the guyinherited from his dad. He was nice enough to serve us coffee and we chatted as I ran several of my own CDs through his system. He was using an old Technics receiver and a Bryston 3B.


Just between you and I, I was a little underwhelmed. I was surprised by the lack of balance between tweets, mids, and woofers, as well as a general lack of tonal precision and ‘air.’. Now, some of this was probably due to the age of the units. (Who knows what shape the internal electronics are in.) The speaker placement was good and I’d say that there was a good mix of reflective and non-reflective surfaces in the room.
I have felt the same way with the 4343 myself... though with all speakers and JBL studio monitors in particular specific set up can make a HUGE difference. I would submit a pair of mint 4345s with TAD TD-2002 drivers swapped in place of the 2421Bs would likely satisfy you if you can take the 10 cu ft per side. A few members have gone this route with the TADs and it makes a superb speaker even better.



As luck would have it, I’m hoping to get a listen to a pair of 250Ti... I doubt if I can get past the goofy Star Wars look of them, subjective, I know.
I have to agree, but I think you and I have a minority opinion on this topic. A mint pair may be just what the doctor ordered sonically for your needs, but I couldn't live with a pair either.


Widget

[Singer-Man]

Hey, Mr. Widget.

When I first broached the topic of making a DIY JBL here about a month ago, it was the 4345 that I mentioned. That's still my focus at this point. Thus far, I've only discovered one pair of 4345s that I could listen to.That was going to require a 250 mile round trip, and I wasn't quite up for that.

The TADs you mentioned sound like a good solution; I've been reading a lot about them lately. Through my own reading I've been getting the notion that the 2421Bs might be the 4345's weak point. And that was exactly what you suggested. Also, some of the changes suggested by Mr.Timbers in his retrospective comments on the 4345s are things I'll bear in mind.


I'm not cutting any wood yet, but I'm looking forward to it.