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View Full Version : 2447j, 2381, 2168x, 2169x, 2251x...info and suggestions, please.



emilime75
12-18-2016, 01:55 PM
Hello, everyone. I am looking to build some 3 ways, hopefully utilizing some gear I already own and adding the missing items. These will be part of a 5.1 system, but they're primary role will be 2/2.1 channel music playback. They will also be active using DSP.

What I already have:
5x 2226H
5x 2447J
5x 2381

I came across a killer deal on 5x SP215-9 boxes, so that's where the above come from.

Some questions I have:

1. Would the 2447 benefit from an SL diaphragm, maybe the 2451SL? I don't necessarily need them to play higher, I'm fairly certain my hearing above 16-17k is non existent, but smoother would always be desirable...not that I have a lot of complaints about their performance as is. I'm not made of money, so Be will have to wait for the foreseeable future. Really, I'm just curious if the added cost is worth it? Subjective, I know.

2. For the midrange, I can purchase either the 2168, 2169 or 2251 for about the same price. These will be direct radiating, no horn/waveguides. There isn't much info to find on these, or maybe my google-fu is lacking. I was able to find that a variation of the 2251 was used in at least 1 of JBL's high end systems, and the other 2 in the Vertec line, which is a completely different application from mine. Has anyone used any of the three? Any suggestions as to which one will work best for my application? The intended pass band will likely be 300-1.5kHz, roughly.

The lows will be handled by 2x 2226H per L/R, and the remaining 5th for the center channel. The 2 remaining 2447/2381 conbos will be used as surrounds, 2 way, with an undecided woofer at this time...but my main focus with this thread is the main L/R.

Subwoofers for HT use are already in place, I've got a ton of Crown amps in various power capability and DSP will be handled by a Symetrix piece. I'm hoping the dual 2226H's will provide enough low end to not need subs for music playback.

Any info and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: My listening time with the SP215-9, so far, has been really limited. Only a handful of hours, and not very critically. Some of the info I have been able to find about the 2447J is that they are not usable up high. The info is rather spread out, and so are the opinions, ranging from 4k-10k...the consensus I've managed to gather is that they are not good above that rather large range, which in itself I have a hard time taking without a grain of salt or two. What is the consensus here on this forum? How much does the horn/waveguide play into the upper end extension of a CD?

If anything, the area I'm not too thrilled with is in the midrange, and my best guess without taking any measurements is that it's somewhere near the crossover...hence the want to go 3 way.

Lee in Montreal
12-18-2016, 07:16 PM
I run 2226 woofers and 2445 compressors on large horns in a simple two-way system that sounds surprisingly good. Perhaps you can run the 2226 up to 500 or 600Hz, and from there use a big CD horn. Then if you really feel you're missing some sizzling highs, add a pair of 2405 UHF tweeters.

1audiohack
12-18-2016, 08:27 PM
Howdy!

SL diaphragms are a great affordable way to getting the best from your 2447's.

I also would put a 10" mid in there. I have not had the ones you mentioned but I find the 2226's lacking there.

Should be a ton of fun!

Barry.

dezmond
12-18-2016, 09:27 PM
The 2381 horns sound better crossed higher like 1.2k or more .

emilime75
12-19-2016, 08:50 PM
Lee, what horn are you using? I did consider the Cinema series 2384, if I was to go 2 way.

Barry, any experience with the D16R2451SL diaphragm in the 2447 motor? What, and how much, of an improvement can I expect from that particular combo? I also agree that the 2226 shouldn't be run up that high (1.2k). This is why I was thinking of adding a midrange.

Dezmond, yes, that is where they are crossed now and it's my understanding that that is the low end limit for the 2381.

Really, it seems my options are to go 2 way with a much larger horn (2384), or 3 way by adding an 8 or 10" mid.

1audiohack
12-19-2016, 10:01 PM
I have no 2447's, 2451's though with SL diapragms and they sound a lot better to me and measure better too. I have them on 4338 horns and could never go back to the D?R2450 diaphragms.

The Be's behave better but for the price SL's are really tough to beat.

Barry.

Lee in Montreal
12-20-2016, 12:23 AM
Lee, what horn are you using? I did consider the Cinema series 2384, if I was to go 2 way.

Much bigger than a 2384. Think along the line of a 2360. It's a 350Hz horns that can be crossed at 500/600Hz


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/39/58/0d/39580dbbe088a6b4d821207ccf393779.jpg

Lee in Montreal
12-20-2016, 06:55 AM
Could also use some Manta Ray horns from Altec.

Cheap on eBay as they usually don't sell as they don't ship. ;-)
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=MR64+altec+manta+ray&_sacat=0

http://audio-database.com/ALTEC/speaker/mantarayhornsystem(mr-94a)+817a.JPG

http://www.audiophilenirvana.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Altec-Mantaray-Horn-Dispersion-Angle.png

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq158/analog_addict/CIMG6768.jpg

Another horn that can be crossed at 500Hz would be the Yuichi A290.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=52306&stc=1&d=1312389880

emilime75
12-27-2016, 08:45 AM
Interesting suggestions, Lee. I've seen the 2360 but always dismissed it as old tech/too large for what I'm willing to live with... With that said, I also swore off "pro" and horn loaded speaker systems in my home long ago, simply based on what I've heard years ago and not liking them. Most of that stuff was 2 ways with 1" exit CDs(Cabaret Series). So, here I am with these SP215-9s in my listening/theater room, and liking them, for the most part. I don't know if I'm older and wiser now, or if the larger CD and better horn make that much of a difference, I imagine it's a little of both.

I can't help but feel that adding a cone midrange to the SP215-9 driver compliment, and making new cabs, would bring this whole thing to a level that I'd be very happy with.

Excuse the crappy mockup, but this is along the lines of what I was thinking. It's a 2251 with the 2381/2447 above it. 2226 bottom right and cab vents above it.
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