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View Full Version : Keep my L300's or sell them and get a pair of 1400 Arrays?



audiomagnate
09-24-2016, 02:52 PM
Here are my considerations, please chime in with your own. I love the way 1400's sound but I'm not crazy about the way they look (is anyone?) and have owned L300's off and on for several years. I can buy a pair of 1400's for what I can get for my pristine 300's, so assume money is not an issue. I sold my first pair of 300's a few years ago and wasn't happy until scoring my present pair.

L300 Pluses:
========
> I think they look extremely cool
> The lowboy style is very practical and doesn't dominate a room like most large speakers
> They sound great
> I already own them
> Resale value continues to climb and they're in demand

L300 Minuses:
=========
> Dated technology
> More "colored" than the 1400's


1400 Array Pluses:
============
> I think they sound quite a bit better than the 300's

1400 Array Minuses:
=============
> Ugly
> Level or falling resale value
> If I don't like them in my room I will have a tough time selling them, and an even tougher time finding another pair of L300s as nice as my current pair


Right now I'm leaning towards making the move but would be curious to hear from others familiar with both speakers. Owning both at the same time and deciding which I like best is not an option unfortunately.

Ed Zeppeli
09-24-2016, 03:04 PM
You make some good comparisons. I can't speak from direct experience but I do love the look of the Arrays; maybe it will grow on you! Also, when will we reach peak L300 prices? While I can't see L300 prices coming down much off-peak I do see the Arrays bottoming out in price eventually.

Given that you already think the Arrays sound better, I'd make the switch and bank on getting used to the look.


Good luck,

Warren

audiomagnate
09-24-2016, 03:28 PM
Hey Warren, thanks for the input, but you didn't vote! This pic makes them look OK, but in real life they don't look this good IMO.

BMWCCA
09-24-2016, 04:58 PM
Are you not in the position where you can buy the 1400s and let them both play in your house for a while until you can make a final decision?

I lusted after the L300s for over 30-years—and even toyed with purchasing a pair of 1400s myself—until I pulled the trigger on my 4345 Kenrick-cabinet clones about eight-years ago. I paid L300 prices for the 4345s and passed on the 1400s for a couple of reasons. First was their aesthetic; I just couldn't wrap my head around it. Second was the constant suggestion that they would benefit from a sub. And then there was the issue of how I'd get them apart for transport without destroying the badge over the connection which JBL wanted a sh*t-ton of dollars for to replace. Sadly, I never even got to listen to the 1400s in my home.

I always thought the L300 would be my ultimate bucket speakers, until I listened to some 4333s and thought they were lacking somewhere in the middle. The 4345 had no such shortcomings. I can't answer your poll because I don't like to sell any of my JBLs. You're wresting with some of the same issues I had with the 1400, but I'd hesitate to suggest you should kick the L300s out the door. :dont-know:

Mr. Widget
09-24-2016, 05:30 PM
Personally I am not a fan of the aesthetics of the L300 or the 1400 Array. I do like the L200s a lot and also like the 4333As too, but am not a fan of any of the JBLs with rounded corners, the L250s, B460, etc. I think I hold a minority opinion in this crowd.

Sonically, there is no comparison in my mind. I'd take the 1400 Arrays over the L300s any day, but if the opportunity to pick up a pair of pristine 4333As came along, I'd seriously consider them too.


Widget

SEAWOLF97
09-24-2016, 05:40 PM
If you can't have both in your home long enough to make a decision and then sell the non-keeper , I'd stick with the L300's a while longer. As you said, the 300's are appreciating and the 1400's are depreciating. Is there some hurry to decide. :dont-know:

I had the dilemma when trying to settle on either 250Ti's or the L300's. LHF member SOUNDBOY came over for a visit and I posed the question to him, since he'd heard both.
His answer was "L300's are like a '59 Caddy , fun to take out for a cruise a couple of hours, but then become fatiguing" .


That said , I'd recommend holding them a bit longer before jumping OR find a way to have both in your home at the same time until a verdict emerges.

hsosdrum
09-26-2016, 01:56 PM
Since my only criteria would be sound quality, for me it would be a no-brainer, and I'd get the 1400s. (I voted accordingly.) However, I'm single and don't give a damn about aesthetics (although I happen to think the 1400s are tre cool looking, while the 300 is just a box with a glass top). I also don't give a damn about resale value this isn't a retirement account we're talking about here, it's a device that serves as a window into another world, and the 1400s are a much more satisfying window than are the 300s. I've heard Retroman's 1400s several times, and they sound much closer to M2s in the midrange than I was prepared for. The nasal midrange "honk" and clicky bass that I always felt marred the L300s sound (byproducts of 1960s-era transducer and crossover design) is completely absent from the Arrays.

P.S. You will probably need a sub. Retroman's 4645 kicked very appropriate ass with his 1400s. He EQd it flat down to 25Hz, as JBL recommends. (I haven't heard his system since he changed to the Array 1500 sub.)

kris90
09-26-2016, 02:56 PM
I just sold mine....Love the design.....

They are great all around speakers...Love the 3-way designs...

Very dynamic.

They are collectable antiques keep that in mind.

LowPhreak
09-26-2016, 07:49 PM
I'd go with the 1400s and try to tolerate the aesthetic. Who knows, it may grow on you. :dont-know: Of course I'm a little biased.




Here Magnate, you can practice with this:



73799



See, a vertical bi-radial isn't so bad, is it? ;) You know what's bad, though? Trying to get used to a pair of 6' high x 4.5' wide Maggie Tympanis staring me down, no less than 3' out from the rear wall. After those I could handle almost anything. :P

Good luck on your decision, my friend!

jblnut
09-26-2016, 07:57 PM
I was in the same boat 2 years ago with my 250Ti's and the 1400's. All your points are valid for the 250 vs 1400.

I kept the 250's. I'd keep the 300's too.


jblnut

audiomagnate
09-27-2016, 05:54 AM
Since my only criteria would be sound quality, for me it would be a no-brainer, and I'd get the 1400s. (I voted accordingly.) However, I'm single and don't give a damn about aesthetics (although I happen to think the 1400s are tre cool looking, while the 300 is just a box with a glass top). I also don't give a damn about resale value this isn't a retirement account we're talking about here, it's a device that serves as a window into another world, and the 1400s are a much more satisfying window than are the 300s. I've heard Retroman's 1400s several times, and they sound much closer to M2s in the midrange than I was prepared for. The nasal midrange "honk" and clicky bass that I always felt marred the L300s sound (byproducts of 1960s-era transducer and crossover design) is completely absent from the Arrays.

P.S. You will probably need a sub. Retroman's 4645 kicked very appropriate ass with his 1400s. He EQd it flat down to 25Hz, as JBL recommends. (I haven't heard his system since he changed to the Array 1500 sub.)

Thanks for your thoughtful response. Could you elaborate on what "clicky" bass is? RE: needing a sub, I've got that covered. I have a 2245 infinite baffle and a couple of 7 cu ft node smoothing "helpers."

srm51555
09-27-2016, 06:21 AM
This would be a really tough decision for me also because you know that you'll probably never get another pair as nice as your L300's but the 1400 array will be sonically superior. What finish were you thinking?

audiomagnate
09-27-2016, 08:11 AM
This would be a really tough decision for me also because you know that you'll probably never get another pair as nice as your L300's but the 1400 array will be sonically superior. What finish were you thinking?

The only ones I've seen in the flesh have been the wood grain, but the pair I'm considering are black gloss. I'd love to see good pic of what the black gloss version looks like but can't find one.

rdgrimes
09-27-2016, 08:46 AM
The only ones I've seen in the flesh have been the wood grain, but the pair I'm considering are black gloss. I'd love to see good pic of what the black gloss version looks like but can't find one.

I have one of each in the 1500 sitting next to each other. They are both wood-grain high-gloss finishes. The dark one does not photograph well, you won't get an appreciation for its depth. Its a very dark grey with a very slight green-grey cast in bright light. In the shadows they are both pretty dark.

kris90
09-27-2016, 02:45 PM
You could go the nelson pass route on the l300's......

audiomagnate
09-27-2016, 03:08 PM
You could go the nelson pass route on the l300's......

I did that with my last pair and even tried out full electronic crossovers and three amps. I love the way my lightly modded L300s sound, I've just got a case of upgradeitis.

kris90
09-27-2016, 03:44 PM
I feel you man!!!!:)

hsosdrum
09-27-2016, 06:40 PM
Thanks for your thoughtful response. Could you elaborate on what "clicky" bass is? RE: needing a sub, I've got that covered. I have a 2245 infinite baffle and a couple of 7 cu ft node smoothing "helpers."

As I've written elsewhere here, in the late 70s I was a salesperson at a large audio dealer in So. Cal. (Federated Group) that carried just about every brand available at the time. I worked at that store for 4 years, and spent hours and hours auditioning every speaker (and piece of electronics) in the place with all different kinds of music. At that time my impression of the L300's bass was that on contemporary (for the time) rock and especially jazz/fusion recordings I thought that it over-emphasized the attack of bass drums and bass guitars at the expense of weight and impact. To my ear it made them all tend to sound "clicky" instead of full. I think the speaker's tonal anomalies throughout the midrange probably exacerbated this, but regardless, I simply never found the L300s a very satisfying listening experience.

To be fair, I have not heard a pair of L300s since around 1982, but the listening impressions I relate above are vividly burned into my audio memory, because I was in the process of selecting speakers of my own, and rejected the JBLs in favor of another brand. On the other hand, if Array 1400s had been available then I very well may have bought them instead.

audiomagnate
09-28-2016, 05:35 PM
As I've written elsewhere here, in the late 70s I was a salesperson at a large audio dealer in So. Cal. (Federated Group) that carried just about every brand available at the time. I worked at that store for 4 years, and spent hours and hours auditioning every speaker (and piece of electronics) in the place with all different kinds of music. At that time my impression of the L300's bass was that on contemporary (for the time) rock and especially jazz/fusion recordings I thought that it over-emphasized the attack of bass drums and bass guitars at the expense of weight and impact. To my ear it made them all tend to sound "clicky" instead of full. I think the speaker's tonal anomalies throughout the midrange probably exacerbated this, but regardless, I simply never found the L300s a very satisfying listening experience.

To be fair, I have not heard a pair of L300s since around 1982, but the listening impressions I relate above are vividly burned into my audio memory, because I was in the process of selecting speakers of my own, and rejected the JBLs in favor of another brand. On the other hand, if Array 1400s had been available then I very well may have bought them instead.

I don't consider L300's a full range speaker. I've added internal damping, stuffed the ports and roll them off at 50 Hz into an infinite baffle sub. The difference between my setup and a stock pair without a sub is...what else?

Night and day!

hsosdrum
09-28-2016, 06:47 PM
I don't consider L300's a full range speaker. I've added internal damping, stuffed the ports and roll them off at 50 Hz into an infinite baffle sub. The difference between my setup and a stock pair without a sub is...what else?

Night and day!

The "clicky" sonic characterization that you asked me to explain of course applies to my impressions of a stock pair of L300s (to be precise, a pair manufactured around 1976- early 1977, which probably had drivers with Alnico magnets) that I extensively auditioned from late 1977 through early 1978.

rdgrimes
09-29-2016, 07:40 AM
The only ones I've seen in the flesh have been the wood grain, but the pair I'm considering are black gloss. I'd love to see good pic of what the black gloss version looks like but can't find one.

This eBay listing has a couple photos:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-Synthesis-1400-Array-Loudspeaker-Speakers-/131949948138?hash=item1eb8d46cea:g:d6gAAOSwYIxX51a p

gcarlberg
09-29-2016, 08:32 AM
I did that with my last pair and even tried out full electronic crossovers and three amps. I love the way my lightly modded L300s sound, I've just got a case of upgradeitis.


Since you like the look and fit of the L300's, why not take out the drivers and replace them with newer drivers.

Store the drivers for a potential resale at a later date.

Replace the 2420 with a 4" neo driver on a 2311 horn. The horn will fit the same opening and bolt patter. The increase in "articulation" with larger format drivers I find to be well worth the effort.

With 2216's available for about $500 dollars, I wouldn't look at anything else.

You'd need to do some measuring and crossover work or go DSP, but you'd keep your cool cabinets and have substantially upgraded output with the option to go back to the original if the need or desire arose.

george

1audiohack
09-29-2016, 02:18 PM
That is a capital idea.

The small format compression drivers never did it for me. The 2311 isn't magic but a better combination in my book.

Barry

Mr. Widget
09-29-2016, 02:33 PM
That is a capital idea.

The small format compression drivers never did it for me. The 2311 isn't magic but a better combination in my book. While I agree with the praise of 4" drivers, however while making these upgrades will improve some aspects of the L300, the system will most likely still not be as neutral as the 1400 Array and certainly not image as well.


Widget

audiomagnate
09-29-2016, 02:45 PM
While I agree with the praise of 4" drivers, however while making these upgrades will improve some aspects of the L300, the system will most likely still not be as neutral as the 1400 Array and certainly not image as well.


Widget

I agree, plus I don't want to mess with these 300's. They're one owner and it looks like they've never been touched. I have a pair of L200's for experimenting with drivers and crossover mods.

srm51555
09-30-2016, 05:32 AM
I have a pair of L200's for experimenting with drivers and crossover mods.

For me this makes the decision to sell a lot easier.

I'd pick the rosewood if still available.

audiomagnate
09-30-2016, 09:50 AM
For me this makes the decision to sell a lot easier.

I'd pick the rosewood if still available.

So would I, but I'm not buying them new so I may have to settle for black. Speaking of rosewood, or "high gloss black wood grain" for that matter, what is that finish anyway? Glorified Formica or is there some real wood veneer under all that shine?

jpw
09-30-2016, 10:50 AM
I offer an alternative view. First of all I agree with all of the plus and minuses you laid out and the compromises they involve. I think you should consider a different JBL model that might offer all of the pluses going forward with the only minus being some extra money now. Consider the 4367. It easily sounds and measures better than the 1400 Array, is a low boy with a vintage look like the L-300 and is likely to hold it's resale value down the road given that not many have been made or sold and it's the last Greg Timbers design. You also get a warranty.

porschecab
10-01-2016, 01:41 AM
The eBay link a few posts above refers to my auction of the JBL 1400's. They are referred to as Woodgrain Gloss Black. Though the photo is sideways, I will pull them away from the Dunlavy SCV's next week and snap some better shots showing off the actual finish.

Dan

73846

73847

audiomagnate
10-01-2016, 03:23 AM
The eBay link a few posts above refers to my auction of the JBL 1400's. They are referred to as Woodgrain Gloss Black. Though the photo is sideways, I will pull them away from the Dunlavy SCV's next week and snap some better shots showing off the actual finish.

Dan



Thanks! That actually looks pretty nice. Adding better pics to your auction couldn't hurt.

BMWCCA
10-01-2016, 04:03 AM
9% sales tax??

On used merchandise?

GLWT

audiomagnate
10-01-2016, 05:42 AM
9% sales tax??

On used merchandise?

GLWT

It looks like he's a retailer, so that's normal for in-state (California) sales.

Mr. Widget
10-01-2016, 09:04 AM
9% sales tax??

On used merchandise?

GLWTAs a dealer don't you charge sales tax on used cars?

Regarding the looks and fit and finish of the 1400 Arrays I think they look 100% better than the 4365,4367 and a bit better than the 4700s too. FWIW: All four of these speakers use a "real" wood veneer that is a manufactured product comprised of stacking wood and slicing it to provide a consistent look.

Of course the aesthetic design of the 1400 Array is another factor entirely and you either like it or you don't. Like most here I prefer the more traditional design of the 4365, but was disappointed in the painting of the horn and the finish on the wood... both of which are forgivable once you close your eyes and listen to them.


Widget

BMWCCA
10-01-2016, 06:12 PM
As a dealer don't you charge sales tax on used cars?

Actually, in my state there is no sales tax on cars, just a titling tax (4%, used to be 2% when I started). I can sell a car and the buyer pays no tax . . . until he applies for a new title. Some states charge on the difference between the trade value, if there is one. Others have a cap as low as $350 even on a $200,000 car, while others have no tax but a high registration fee (Montana). But you're right, there's still a similar fee applied to new and used cars. Regardless, if you buy a car in my state and register it in yours, you don't pay a fee to my state, but your state's fees apply.

I don't recall ever paying a tax on used car parts though, when buying from a salvage yard. I guess the 9% was just kind of a shock! :)

porschecab
10-04-2016, 08:44 AM
9% is state law here in CA. Used speakers, car parts, etc - legally should be taxed each and every time it is sold. Tax is either paid by the buyer or by the seller. If a seller collects $1,000 for a used car part or $5,000 for used speakers - if the product is sold as local pick up or shipped in California, 9% tax is due EACH and EVERY TIME. In the state of California, you are allowed two garage sales per year, or two sales per year. After such, tax is applicable.

While I am not a dealer (this will change soon), tax is still expected to be paid to the state. So if I sell a pair of used Steinway Model D's for $100,000 the state will get $9,000. If I don't charge the buyer, the speakers will have actually sold for about $92,000 because........tax still has to be paid. Great word problem for my kids to figure out........

There are alot of folks who call their hobby of upgrading just that, an upgrade, but if you are audited, the first thing looked at - income on your return versus your statements. If they don't match, 'where did the other funds come from'. "Oh, I sold some audio gear and upgraded my system". At that point, you will be charged tax and fees for being late.

Heck, I would say most every single person in CA is unaware that they are supposed to pay a USE TAX (9%) on product purchased OUTSIDE of the state and brought in. This is currently based on an honor system, but that will get figured our soon enough too.

SEAWOLF97
10-04-2016, 11:57 AM
- if the product is sold as local pick up or shipped in California, 9% tax is due EACH and EVERY TIME. .

So if an item is bought & sold repeatedly , then the accumulated tax to be collected COULD surpass the original value ?

No wonder so many are bailing and coming up here .... :eek:

are homes included ?

Odd
10-04-2016, 01:15 PM
Over with you there is almost no taxes http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/icons/icon7.png

Here from retailer on used merchandise is 25%

From private to private on used merchandise 0%

BMWCCA
10-04-2016, 01:45 PM
I pay tax on what I buy off Amazon because they make Amazon collect it, but not on Ebay. I'm supposedly required by the state to do so, but there's no mechanism for assessing it. Everyone in Virginia is supposed to pay Personal Property Tax on what they own in their home, such as sound systems, TVs, computers . . . but no one ever declares it. I used to have to pay property tax every year on my old cars based on someone's assessment of their value, and yet no one here with million-dollar racehorses ever had to pay a dime. At one point our governor cut the taxes assessed every year on cars you own based on age, diminished the tax value each year, and eventually it went away on cars over a certain age. So now I am forgiven any tax on most of my old BMWs, running and not, while even an original Cobra owner gets by with no tax on his million-dollar car. That's one reason I drive old cars.

SEAWOLF97
10-04-2016, 02:09 PM
http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2015/finance/sales-tax/understanding-sales-tax-050615.pdf

Ed Zeppeli
10-04-2016, 02:21 PM
....and back to the other taxing issue. It looks like the poll is running @ 16/7 in favour of the Arrays.

Any decisions yet Audiomagnate?


Cheers,

Warren

audiomagnate
10-04-2016, 11:05 PM
....and back to the other taxing issue. It looks like the poll is running @ 16/7 in favour of the Arrays.

Any decisions yet Audiomagnate?


Cheers,

Warren

I guess it's time to break out the old Feed-N-Wax and snap a few glamour shots.

Ed Zeppeli
10-05-2016, 07:11 AM
I guess it's time to break out the old Feed-N-Wax and snap a few glamour shots.

May as well test the market!

rdgrimes
10-05-2016, 09:29 AM
I guess it's time to break out the old Feed-N-Wax and snap a few glamour shots.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-L-300-SUMMIT-SPEAKERS-MINT-CONDITION-/122166457175?hash=item1c71b03357:g:nkgAAOSwdIFXzNr h

JuniorJBL
10-05-2016, 03:43 PM
Any reason not to consider a pair of M2's?

rdgrimes
10-05-2016, 03:57 PM
I can't get comfortable with the look of the M2. Array 1400 is far more purty. M2 looks like a big pucker.

BMWCCA
10-05-2016, 05:15 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-L-300-SUMMIT-SPEAKERS-MINT-CONDITION-/122166457175?hash=item1c71b03357:g:nkgAAOSwdIFXzNr h


"They are the ultimate in hi-fi stereo reproduction, the best speaker JBL ever made."
Then why would anyone want to sell them??
You must be crazy! ;)

Mr. Widget
10-05-2016, 06:18 PM
I can't get comfortable with the look of the M2. Array 1400 is far more purty. M2 looks like a big pucker. As odd as the 1400 Arrays look, I kind of agree with you. I decided I could not consider the M2s partially based on aesthetics myself.


Widget

audiomagnate
10-06-2016, 07:17 AM
Then why would anyone want to sell them??
You must be crazy! ;)

The description is pretty funny, but that's normal for eBay. The flat $500 shipping charge for Uship is way high in my experience. I've used Uship to ship L300's and the cost was exactly half that much.

audiomagnate
10-06-2016, 07:23 AM
Any reason not to consider a pair of M2's?


I can't get comfortable with the look of the M2. Array 1400 is far more purty. M2 looks like a big pucker.

I'm sure I would like M2's but they are out of my price range, and are almost as ugly as the SVA's that the L300's replaced. BTW I hadn't really thought about the puckery look of the M2 horn,, but now I can't "unsee" it that way.

SEAWOLF97
10-06-2016, 08:12 AM
The flat $500 shipping charge for Uship is way high in my experience. I've used Uship to ship L300's and the cost was exactly half that much.

I've NEVER used it, but maybe a good tool ?

Shyp opens carrier rate comparison tool nationwide and launches desktop support

http://venturebeat.com/2016/10/06/shyp-opens-carrier-rate-comparison-tool-nationwide-and-launches-desktop-support/?google_editors_picks=true

hsosdrum
10-06-2016, 01:21 PM
I'm sure I would like M2's but they are out of my price range, and are almost as ugly as the SVA's that the L300's replaced. BTW I hadn't really thought about the puckery look of the M2 horn,, but now I can't "unsee" it that way.

I kinda like the "puckery" horn, but don't hold that against me, I'm a little screwy myself. Besides, it makes a good yin to the JBL "butt-cheek" horn's yang.

jfine
10-07-2016, 10:40 PM
Have not heard the 1400 arrays, would like to though,

Also have a 1 owner L300 set, no mods, was flipping back and forth to modded xover'd L150's, back to the L300's but this time with a B460...

Then scored L7's, I keep moving the 300's/150's in and out but the L7's keep moving back in:dont-know:

BMWCCA
10-08-2016, 03:21 AM
I keep moving the 300's/150's in and out but the L7's keep moving back in:dont-know:

Funny how that works, isn't it! :thmbsup:

audiomagnate
10-08-2016, 02:57 PM
I've NEVER used it, but maybe a good tool ?

Shyp opens carrier rate comparison tool nationwide and launches desktop support

http://venturebeat.com/2016/10/06/shyp-opens-carrier-rate-comparison-tool-nationwide-and-launches-desktop-support/?google_editors_picks=true

I'm not going to use an app that wants my full name and email address before I can even open it.

porschecab
10-10-2016, 05:31 PM
jfine:
If you are near San Francisco on any trip - shoot me a note. I will have them fired up with Levinson #33's until the 1400 sell!
You can hear Wilson WP7's, B&W 802N, B&W 802D2, Sonus Faber Cremona, Revel Studio, and other various speakers, C50SM's and C60's.
Dan

porschecab
10-20-2016, 11:38 PM
Funny story today:

A local audiophile decided to come into the shop today and listen to the Wilson WP7's. He was quite excited to hear them - having a good pair of speakers with a nice Pass integrated - he was looking for a nice jump up. After just about 10 minutes - a few different CD's he turns and says "you know, I was hoping for something to jump out and grab me - and frankly, these didn't do it".

Now the WP7's are a fantastic speakers, in my opinion, and are fed good power (#33H) and source/pre (Levinson). He stands up, rather shocked, disappointed that his self imposed expectations didn't mate with reality, turns and sees the 'odd horn alignment' on the Array 1400's and says:
"say, can we listen to those?". Well hell, not much more I love than comparing speakers with the same music. The Array 1400's are connected to Levinson 33's, UHC (Ultra High Current) 240V, 50Amp monoblocks and yes, each amp has a dedicated 240V/50A circuit run from the panel directly to the amp. Pretty high end Levinson pre and both a Meridian 800 and Levinson 512 source feed.

We take the CD from the Wilson system and plop it into the Array 1400 system, about 8 maybe 10 seconds in, he turns and smiles (104dB) and screams "this is the emotional feeling I was hoping to get from the sound of the Wilson" and turned back to listen. Back and forth we went and each and every time, the sound from the Array was much bigger and heavier - just fantastic. From that point on we listened to Patricia Barber, Dire Straights, Eric Clapton, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Pink Floyd, Henry Mancini, Daft Punk, and the likes of Katie Melua, Musica Nuda, and a few others.
Expecting to love the WP7's, left without either pair - but did say - "I now know my next pair of speakers will be the Array 1400".

They capture the hearts and souls of those that dare listen!

BMWCCA
10-21-2016, 04:10 AM
Yeah, but can they be considered to be in the "audiophile" realm?? ;)

audiomagnate
10-21-2016, 06:51 AM
Funny story today:

A local audiophile decided to come into the shop today and listen to the Wilson WP7's. He was quite excited to hear them - having a good pair of speakers with a nice Pass integrated - he was looking for a nice jump up. After just about 10 minutes - a few different CD's he turns and says "you know, I was hoping for something to jump out and grab me - and frankly, these didn't do it".

Now the WP7's are a fantastic speakers, in my opinion, and are fed good power (#33H) and source/pre (Levinson). He stands up, rather shocked, disappointed that his self imposed expectations didn't mate with reality, turns and sees the 'odd horn alignment' on the Array 1400's and says:
"say, can we listen to those?". Well hell, not much more I love than comparing speakers with the same music. The Array 1400's are connected to Levinson 33's, UHC (Ultra High Current) 240V, 50Amp monoblocks and yes, each amp has a dedicated 240V/50A circuit run from the panel directly to the amp. Pretty high end Levinson pre and both a Meridian 800 and Levinson 512 source feed.

We take the CD from the Wilson system and plop it into the Array 1400 system, about 8 maybe 10 seconds in, he turns and smiles (104dB) and screams "this is the emotional feeling I was hoping to get from the sound of the Wilson" and turned back to listen. Back and forth we went and each and every time, the sound from the Array was much bigger and heavier - just fantastic. From that point on we listened to Patricia Barber, Dire Straights, Eric Clapton, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Pink Floyd, Henry Mancini, Daft Punk, and the likes of Katie Melua, Musica Nuda, and a few others.
Expecting to love the WP7's, left without either pair - but did say - "I now know my next pair of speakers will be the Array 1400".

They capture the hearts and souls of those that dare listen!

If he came to buy a pair of $25,000 speakers and was blown away by a speaker that costs MUCH less, why the hell didn't he just buy the damn things? FWIW, my brother has Sophia's in his apartment (or Sasha's - I can't remember and don't care - see photo) and the little two ways at his house (maybe he bought them from you, he's a Porsche nut that lives in your area) that I've spent lots of time with, and I've heard Sasha's and Alexandria's at CES and RMAF and I agree completely with your customer. Wilson makes beautifully finished, utterly lifeless speakers. The first time I heard the 1400's (CES 2011) I'd already heard Alexandria's in $762,000 system that sounded pretty bad. The people in the room were blaming The Venitian's electricity. My reaction to the 1400's was almost identical to your customer's. Wilson has managed to capture the .01% crowd, but in my opinion the emperor has no clothes. For that kind of money I like MBL's.

hsosdrum
10-21-2016, 02:05 PM
If he came to buy a pair of $25,000 speakers and was blown away by a speaker that costs MUCH less, why the hell didn't he just buy the damn things? FWIW, my brother has Sophia's in his apartment (or Sasha's - I can't remember and don't care - see photo) and the little two ways at his house (maybe he bought them from you, he's a Porsche nut that lives in your area) that I've spent lots of time with, and I've heard Sasha's and Alexandria's at CES and RMAF and I agree completely with your customer. Wilson makes beautifully finished, utterly lifeless speakers. The first time I heard the 1400's (CES 2011) I'd already heard Alexandria's in $762,000 system that sounded pretty bad. The people in the room were blaming The Venitian's electricity. My reaction to the 1400's was almost identical to your customer's. Wilson has managed to capture the .01% crowd, but in my opinion the emperor has no clothes. For that kind of money I like MBL's.

This exactly mirrors my experience listening to the Wilson Grand Slamm system over 20 years ago at CES. Dave Wilson had taken over a large hotel suite, only allowing a dozen or so people in at a time for a demo. I don't remember any of the associated equipment or the source material (except that it included recordings of his wife singing soprano, the less said about which, the better), but I do remember being tremendously underwhelmed by the performance of this $130,000 speaker system (at the time the most expensive home audio speakers in existence). They sounded like good speakers, but they defiantly refused to sound like anything other than speakers — they simply never got out of their own way and let the music through. Never for a moment was I able to close my eyes and feel like I was in the presence of live human beings making music. As I've said before, stereo audio reproduction is nothing but an illusion, and each person will be satisfied by a different illusion. I find the illusion produced by Wilson Audio's speakers to be completely unsatisfying.

For that kind of money ($130,000) I like a pair of JBL M2s, a pair of JBL SUB 18s, extensive listening-room acoustic treatments and a 2017 Corvette.

mech986
10-21-2016, 02:46 PM
Perhaps the buyer had to get home to make a few sales orders for Google, Amazon, or Apple that he holds. 50-100 shares depending on which he holds should do it. Probably be back in about 3-4 working days or on the weekend.

Oh, likely he needs to consult the wife about their looks? Trying to decide on cabinet finish?

OTOH, a buyer like that probably has plenty of credit on his card to make the purchase immediately.

As an aside, it is still a crying shame that JBL can continue to make money off of designs and the creative genius of Greg Timbers, Moro, and Button while sweeping them off from their employ.

hsosdrum
10-21-2016, 05:05 PM
As an aside, it is still a crying shame that JBL can continue to make money off of designs and the creative genius of Greg Timbers, Moro, and Button while sweeping them off from their employ.

To be fair, based on personal conversations I had with Doug Button when I was working with him at Harman in the 2009-2011 timeframe, when he left the company back then it was of his own accord.

1audiohack
10-21-2016, 07:21 PM
...As an aside, it is still a crying shame that JBL can continue to make money off of designs and the creative genius of Greg Timbers, Moro, and Button while sweeping them off from their employ.

While I agree that the dispatch of Greg and Jerry was idiotic, Harman paid for what they got out of these men and while neither can unlearn what they learned during their employ, and will certainly use this knowledge in the future, the right of use is with Harman.

Barry.

mech986
10-21-2016, 09:59 PM
Don't disagree with either of you, and not going to further derail this thread other than to say, who will be the next designers at JBL, and hope Greg, Doug, and Jerry are still doing well at whatever their next adventure is.

audiomagnate
10-21-2016, 11:29 PM
...likely he needs to consult the wife about their looks?...

Now that's very plausible. I got that covered with a very expensive divorce a few years back.:D

My L300's are ready to go. I know most LHers don't like to pay anywhere near retail, but I'll show off my detailing job in marketplace soon all the same.