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rickmoen
09-05-2016, 12:20 PM
Greetings to All,

I've had my current speakers, a nice set of JBL L100t3's, for a while now and I am getting the itch for something else. I certainly do not dislike the my L100t3's - they are sounding great. Just looking at something else. The JBL L300's and 250ti's are well beyond my budget, but there are others I'd consider - JBL 120ti, 240ti, L7, ... I've never heard any of these three, so I'm hoping that a few forum members who have heard these could perhaps rank them for me in sound quality. I do like the JBL vintage speakers. Would they be an improvement? I currently have a 225 wpc NAD amp (a 2.1 system) - I assume that's enough power for any of these. Once upon a time, I had a set of L5's (different amp) with a sub - they were awesome, so may as well add these to the mix. Don't remember why I sold them. Any others to consider? At the risk of sounding like a heretic, any other brands that would be of interest? My budget would be "around" $1500.

Thank you for reading and any help/ideas you may offer,

Rick

speakerdave
09-05-2016, 02:08 PM
The speakers you list have little or no support from JBL in key areas, and I mean the areas in which they are an upgrade over what you have, the midrange and tweeter, and in my opinion are somewhat of a sideways move. The best JBL technology at that price is a used pair of LSR32's. Shop for clean. Still supported by JBL. Dusted Ti dome tweeter vs. naked makes a big difference. Excellent midrange driver covering a long range. Revel F32's are in some ways a similar concept and would be better WAF for sure and a sound you would perhaps prefer, but you'd have to shop for a price and stretch your budget too. Well worth it, lmo. Not sure about support. Revel, like JBL, is a Harman brand.

rickmoen
09-06-2016, 11:53 AM
Thank you speakerdave for your advice. I had not considered more modern speakers as my upgrade. Your thoughtful post has given me a lot more to think about and research.

Retroman
09-06-2016, 12:14 PM
I would look for a pair of clean 240Tis. You can have the LE14H-1 woofer and 044Ti tweeter serviced by a qualified JBL service technician to make them good as new, such as Ken Haer of Upland Speaker Service. if they haven't been serviced yet, they'll need it. The woofer will need a new surround and the tweeter will need to have its VC gap cleared of deteriorated damping pad particles and a new pad put in place. Going from a 12' woofer in an L100/LSR32 enclosure up to an LE14 in a larger floor standing tower provides a significant step-up in bass power and punch. I've heard them many times and assert they are superior to most of the 12" based woofer models and some of the mid-size pro models as well, including the 4430. You can definitely find them in your stated price range and do the required service over time if necessary.

BMWCCA
09-06-2016, 12:22 PM
. . . or you could have maybe three pair of L7s for the same money and melt your house or neighbors. Really, I doubt anything you'd consider in that price range would actually offer a tremendous improvement over your L100T3s. :dont-know:

Krunchy
09-06-2016, 01:03 PM
Not familiar with the L100t3's, but.... what about a pair of 4430s? there is of course the WAF? :dont-know:
I would think for $1,500.00 one should be able to get a nice set of JBLs, I've been shedding speakers so I may be out of touch with some current prices.
Unless you're in a rush and keep a vigilant eye out for a particular item they usually pop up & maybe even get a good deal on it.


Good luck.

LowPhreak
09-06-2016, 01:14 PM
I don't know if they'd be an upgrade from the L100T3's, but if you've grown a little weary like I have of searching for parts, making repairs, refoaming/reconing woofers, and overpricing on the vintage stuff, try the JBL Studio 590s or 580s. One or the other should be in your price range, depending on discounts and such. There's a 30 or 60 day in-home trial period from JBL so nothing to lose but some shipping if you don't like them.

http://jblsynthesis.com/productdetail/studio_590.html

I've had both models (590s now) and I'd say proper room set-up as usual (a good space from side & rear walls), spike the cabs solidly to the floor (no wobbles) and your NAD should have no problem with them. They're pretty easy to drive with no tough phase angles/impedance dips.

Since in a larger room (mine is about 26' x 18') the 590s can easily do the low 30 Hz range with a few dB boost in that area, you may not feel the need for a sub but if you do, then bring it in fairly low or things might get murky. The midrange is pretty flat until you get to the 2.5-3 dB rise centered around 8-9 kHz; that can be cured with a slight cut on the typical 10 Hz treble pot or EQ.

Dispersion, imaging, and all that audiophile stuff. I like them and I'm a bit grouchy when it comes to speakers. They sound better in many ways than, for example, the Nautilus 803s I used to have that cost me 3x more 15 years ago, or the Maggie Tympani IV-Ds, and others.

JuniorJBL
09-06-2016, 04:27 PM
I'm with Speakerdave on the LSR32's however the LE14H based speakers are one of my all time favorites for sure. I would skip the 120Ti's considering what you currently have. L7's are a nice speaker as well, but even harder to find parts for.

The newer studio 580's and 590's are decent (the 80's were my preferred speaker) however they are loaded with a compression driver instead of a tweeter. http://www.jbl.com/loudspeakers/STUDIO+580.html

EDIT: I see the studios were mentioned already.

speakerdave
09-06-2016, 06:55 PM
Since the OP has a subwoofer he doesn't need the LE14-1' though I agree it is a fine woofer. To equate the LSR32 dual voice coil plus a braking coil neodymium woofer with the 2214 in the L100t3, as if all 12 inch woofers were the same, is just ignorance. C'mon, try to keep up here. :)

LowPhreak
09-06-2016, 08:26 PM
The newer studio 580's and 590's are decent (the 80's were my preferred speaker) however they are loaded with a compression driver instead of a tweeter. http://www.jbl.com/loudspeakers/STUDIO+580.html

EDIT: I see the studios were mentioned already.

I liked the 580s size/aesthetic better than the larger 590s box, even in a larger room. They're very similar sounding though, but for a tad more reach in the lows and the larger (taller) soundfield of the 90s.

JuniorJBL
09-06-2016, 09:41 PM
Since the OP has a subwoofer he doesn't need the LE14-1' though I agree it is a fine woofer. To equate the LSR32 dual voice coil plus a braking coil neodymium woofer with the 2214 in the L100t3, as if all 12 inch woofers were the same, is just ignorance. C'mon, try to keep up here. :)


I certainly was not trying to convey a comparison to the 100t3 to the LSR32 in any form :no: because there is none, I am however sorry if it seemed that way.

I was merely answering his questions about the 3 speakers mentioned in the OP with of course my opinion, and we all know what that really means lol! ;)

Carry on! :)

speakerdave
09-06-2016, 10:44 PM
. . . . Carry on! :)

Thanks, and I will, but I wasn't referring to anything you said.

johnlcnm
09-07-2016, 05:40 AM
I'm with speakerdave on this one. I've been on a speaker safari for years, including electrostatics, B&W 802's, plus numerous others. The LSR32 and current LSR6332 are very good speakers. Typical of very accurate JBL's, only as good as your electronics. The differential drive 12 inch woofer is superior in punch and definition, if EQ'd to the room. The midrange and tweeter are in the same league as the low end, very linear and superior in definition. Very good choice and the LSR32 is usually a bargain on the used market.

Regards,

John

JuniorJBL
09-07-2016, 06:44 AM
Thanks, and I will, but I wasn't referring to anything you said.


Then I am the one who has misunderstood! My bad!! :)

Even at full asking price and shipping, (i'm sure you could do better as well) these would be a better deal (if the condition is good) than most speakers for the price.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-JBL-LSR32-THX-Linear-Spatial-Reference-Passive-Studio-Monitors-Speakers-25490-/182251241574?hash=item2a6f054066:g:2JwAAOSwU-pXuWgT

johnlcnm
09-07-2016, 09:58 AM
There certainly may be better deals out there. I not trying to sell anything here, but my last monitors were a pair of Event Opals. I used them for about four years in a stereo system. On a whim I bought the a pair of JBL LSR6332's. They were definitely a serious upgrade IMO. This was the second time with JBL's. I owned a pair of L110's in the 1970s. Always regretted selling those. I will admit that I have become a JBL fan since then. Have 4333Bs, 4425s, and LSR 6332s at present. A pair of M2s under construction, although the wood working end of that is not going very well.

Regards,

John

rickmoen
09-07-2016, 07:21 PM
A great, big thank you to those who have responded. (Doesn't mean that any more posts would be unwelcome - keep 'em coming!) I think that I now lean towards the more modern speakers than the vintage speakers I originally listed. I've been reading about the speakers suggested here and they all appear to be a big step up from my L100t3's. The learning never stops!

jblnut
09-11-2016, 08:36 AM
Don't forget these gems...the XPL 140/160/200 offers a more "hi fi" experience (especially imaging) than the L100T3 if that's your thing. They are a finer looking speaker (imho) too and would be in your price range - if you can find them. They are pretty rare...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-XPL-160-3-Way-Loudspeakers-Very-Clean-Fully-Tested-Working-Pair-MSRP-2498-/282106504713?hash=item41aedba609:g:kW4AAOSwZVlXjoy V


jblnut

rickmoen
09-12-2016, 12:02 PM
Thank you jblnut. I hadn't considered this group of speakers. More to look at! My decision is getting harder and harder. i guess I've been in the vintage bubble way too long! As one poster said about the vintage stuff - overpriced. These more modern speakers are about the same cost as many of the vintage speakers I have coveted, but (from the reviews I've read) offer a superior audio experience. I may have to spend some time going to PHX and try to listen to some of the newer speakers.

jblnut
09-12-2016, 01:11 PM
LOl...these are all vintage my friend. Sure the L100 family maybe be up to 20 years older than an L7 or XPL160, but speakers from the late 80's and early 90's are still plenty old.

JBL had some moments of brilliance in every decade (and that still holds true with the newer recommendations in this thread) and it's worth trying to hear as many as you can to determine what you like and what you don't. Hell I'd even say try to listen to some S312's just to hear what might be considered the final version of an L100t3, at least in terms of cab size and driver configuration. I have 3 sets of friends with S38-based 5.1 systems and that series is pretty impressive even if it is made south of the border.

jblnut

BMWCCA
09-12-2016, 03:36 PM
As one poster said about the vintage stuff - overpriced. These more modern speakers are about the same cost as many of the vintage speakers I have coveted, but (from the reviews I've read) offer a superior audio experience. I may have to spend some time going to PHX and try to listen to some of the newer speakers.

Listening is the best way to know. And when you find that some vintage JBLs actually sound better than many modern systems, then maybe you won't think the vintage stuff is so overpriced!

I have yet to find any modern system within ten-times what I have in my 4345s that I'd rather have.

Now maybe that's just because it's so damn difficult to find anyplace to actually listen to a new JBL . . . but I doubt it. I have auditioned Thiel, Bowers & Wilkins, GolenEars, McIntosh, and others.

rickmoen
09-12-2016, 03:50 PM
When I think about vintage speakers, i'm thinking about 1970's or 1980's era speakers. 1990's and 2000's are just older speakers. YMMV

BMWCCA
09-12-2016, 07:07 PM
When I think about vintage speakers, i'm thinking about 1970's or 1980's era speakers. 1990's and 2000's are just older speakers. YMMV

For instance the 4345, last produced in 1984?

SEAWOLF97
09-12-2016, 08:08 PM
I have auditioned Thiel, Bowers & Wilkins, GolenEars, McIntosh, and others.

I have never known anyone who thought that McIntosh speakers were even passable.

grumpy
09-12-2016, 09:10 PM
In the time before Clarion bought em, the XRT-22 did some nice things, ... but $$$$

Haven't bothered since (mid 80's?)

BMWCCA
09-13-2016, 05:43 AM
I have never known anyone who thought that McIntosh speakers were even passable.

Not talking about the old ones that sounded like someone threw a rug over them. I always called them "living-room" speakers. As much related to hi-fi reproduction as a Lexus LS400 is to a sport car.

But their new ones that, albeit weird, command $5,000 per side: http://www.soundandvision.com/content/dreaming-not-impossible-dream#FBTErjkSJpRHr83S.97

https://www.musicdirect.com/Portals/0/Hotcakes/Data/products/ed9eeb74-1077-4e57-87a6-e64a2b147567/medium/AMCHXR100W.jpg

jblnut
09-13-2016, 12:22 PM
Or you could just use a JBL because unlike McSpeakers, you don't need 5-25 of each driver to get the job done. I always thought you ended up with the "pebbles thrown into a pond" problem of tons of cancellation issues with multiple drivers all trying to play in the same range. Obviously some speaker makers love the multiple driver approach but it doesn't seem JBL is one of them.

thoughts?

jblnut

grumpy
09-13-2016, 12:43 PM
Cbt :)

hsosdrum
09-13-2016, 01:49 PM
Or you could just use a JBL because unlike McSpeakers, you don't need 5-25 of each driver to get the job done. I always thought you ended up with the "pebbles thrown into a pond" problem of tons of cancellation issues with multiple drivers all trying to play in the same range. Obviously some speaker makers love the multiple driver approach but it doesn't seem JBL is one of them.

thoughts?

jblnut

Any time more than a single device is used to reproduce the same frequency range there will be interference between them that's based on the distance separating the voice coils of the drivers, the distance of each driver to the listener and the wavelengths of the frequency(s) being reproduced. The audible result will be comb-filtering, where some frequencies are reinforced (increasing their amplitude) and others are partially cancelled and therefore reduced in amplitude, which makes real-world frequency response a crapshoot. That's why JBL only runs one of the 15s in the current Everest speakers up to 150Hz and the other 15 all the way up to the crossover with the horn (750Hz or 850Hz, depending on model) — to minimize midrange interference between the 15s while still providing the performance of two 15s in the bass range. (Wavelengths below 150Hz are so long that there is little to no interference in normal listening situations.)

That McIntosh speaker must sound like hell — there's just no way to run those 10 2-inch drivers in that physical arrangement without them shitting all over each other. Even if they were arranged in a vertical line array there would be destructive interference that would affect directivity in unpredictable ways.

Yikes.

SEAWOLF97
09-13-2016, 03:22 PM
Not talking about the old ones that sounded like someone threw a rug over them. I always called them "living-room" speakers. As much related to hi-fi reproduction as a Lexus LS400 is to a sport car.

But their new ones that, albeit weird, command $5,000 per side:

from the followup comments it seems like the new ones aren't regarded much
better than the old ones :dont-know:

BMWCCA
09-13-2016, 03:38 PM
from the followup comments it seems like the new ones aren't regarded much
better than the old ones :dont-know:

Give me some credit, I was just saying I've not found anything new for ten-times the price of my 4345s that I would consider swapping for. These were in-stock locally so I listed them as some that I'd heard. FWIW, they sounded better than the Thiels priced at $7,000 each. Might have been better than the GoldenEar Triton 2 at $3,000/pair, but I really don't remember as the Tritons were so underwhelming and at a different location.

I've not had an opportunity to do an A—B comparison in the same room but I suspect my L7s would outshine any of these, too. :dont-know:

jblnut
09-13-2016, 04:22 PM
I hear ya bmwcca. When i went preamp shopping 3 years ago it took some 10k Sonus Fabers to even get into the realm of what i am used to hearing every night with my 250s.

Really hard to go wrong with any of the better JBLs of yesteryear. Even my lowly 940s still continue to amaze people who grew up in a world of bluetooth speakers and Bose micro boxes.

jblnut

DS-21
09-13-2016, 09:20 PM
I have never known anyone who thought that McIntosh speakers were even passable.

For a little while ex-JBLer David Smith was designing McIntosh speakers. The ones with three tweeters are Smith's.

murphythecat
12-15-2016, 02:22 PM
There certainly may be better deals out there. I not trying to sell anything here, but my last monitors were a pair of Event Opals. I used them for about four years in a stereo system. On a whim I bought the a pair of JBL LSR6332's. They were definitely a serious upgrade IMO. This was the second time with JBL's. I owned a pair of L110's in the 1970s. Always regretted selling those. I will admit that I have become a JBL fan since then. Have 4333Bs, 4425s, and LSR 6332s at present. A pair of M2s under construction, although the wood working end of that is not going very well.

Regards,

John
wow. interesting that you think the LSR6332 was a major upgrade from the Event Opals. I was talking recently to a studio guy that switch from lsr6332 to Opals and he said he prefer Opals...

im curious, how do the LSR6332 compares to 4333B and 4425 and B&W 802?

thanks

johnlcnm
12-16-2016, 06:04 AM
wow. interesting that you think the LSR6332 was a major upgrade from the Event Opals. I was talking recently to a studio guy that switch from lsr6332 to Opals and he said he prefer Opals...

im curious, how do the LSR6332 compares to 4333B and 4425 and B&W 802?

thanks
The thing that struck me about the 6332 and 4333 is the fact that real instruments sound a lot closer to "real" then most other systems that I have listened to. I call the 4333s "electrostats on steroids". The bass out of the 12 inch 6332 is an upgrade over the 2235 in the 4333s. Not to denigrate the 2235. I think that 15 is really good in the lower midrange. Amazing for a big bass driver. The 4333s main strength is that old parabolic horn and driver combo. The detail in the mids is "electrostatic" in sound quality and definition. This system is bi-amped with two Crown I-tech amps, which took these old speeks to the next level.

Regards,

John