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ARMED
08-11-2016, 08:16 PM
So I decided to build a 4343....my original plan was to build a 4333, but I know after couple of months, I will end up building a 4 way...
so to save time and money....why not just go straight to a 4 way...i know im in over my head on this build...
So please help me out....

I will be running 2405, LE85/H91, 2122, 2226...i will have a 2235 maybe after i get rid of some stuff...
I do not have the crossover yet, this is my problem....id like to get a DIY 3143/3144....i know it will be hard to find an original one...and if theres one
for sale, its probably going to cost me an arm and a leg... :crying:

this build is probably not going to be an exact copy...this is my first DIY from scratch..ill try my best to make it look like the original...

please comment if theres anything i need to know or watch out for while doing this build...thanks in advance!!!!

oh, and i do not have all the cool gadget to test the frequencies and all...like all the graph thingy that I see from other thread/build..
so this is basically a build and listen kind of deal...and hope that all will sound good...:dont-know:

ivica
08-13-2016, 02:05 AM
So I decided to build a 4343....my original plan was to build a 4333, but I know after couple of months, I will end up building a 4 way...
so to save time and money....why not just go straight to a 4 way...i know im in over my head on this build...
So please help me out....

I will be running 2405, LE85/H91, 2122, 2226...i will have a 2235 maybe after i get rid of some stuff...
I do not have the crossover yet, this is my problem....id like to get a DIY 3143/3144....i know it will be hard to find an original one...and if theres one
for sale, its probably going to cost me an arm and a leg... :crying:

this build is probably not going to be an exact copy...this is my first DIY from scratch..ill try my best to make it look like the original...

please comment if theres anything i need to know or watch out for while doing this build...thanks in advance!!!!

oh, and i do not have all the cool gadget to test the frequencies and all...like all the graph thingy that I see from other thread/build..
so this is basically a build and listen kind of deal...and hope that all will sound good...:dont-know:

Hi ARMED,

I would suggest You to use 244x & 2311 instead of 242x&2307

regards
ivica

speakerdave
08-13-2016, 07:45 AM
I agree with Ivica. You should follow 4313B's 4345 build except on a 4344 cabinet.

ARMED
08-13-2016, 08:40 AM
thanks guys... ill see if i could source them out, is there anything i could do with the crossover to compensate the usage og LE85/H91... you

ivica
08-13-2016, 10:30 AM
thanks guys... ill see if i could source them out, is there anything i could do with the crossover to compensate the usage og LE85/H91... you

Hi,

Our forum member 4313B has suggest something like this:
so You can start from here, and adjust the driver sensitivity.

regards
ivica

ARMED
08-13-2016, 10:52 AM
thanks ivica...

this is going to be a nightmare:blink:

quindecima
08-13-2016, 01:14 PM
It will be easier to build the exact copy than to formulate your own, those plans are already out there. I agree with the others, follow 4313b's plans you can't go wrong with them.

ARMED
08-13-2016, 07:29 PM
if i could just find someone to build the crossovers for me....ugh :(

ivica
08-14-2016, 03:43 AM
thanks ivica...

this is going to be a nightmare:blink:

Hi ARMED,

If not "CC-network" is acceptable, then You can substitute come caps and res with their equvalent

1/Ceqv= 1/C1 + 1/C2 .....
1/Reqv= 1/R1 + 1/R2 + 1/R3 ......

and forget 'polarization' resistors ( over 1MOhms)
may be can help

or even less component version for the beginning

regards
ivica

ARMED
08-16-2016, 02:01 PM
so is this correct? again, im just using what I have as far drivers...
2404h, LE85/H91, 2122h, 2235 (2226 at the moment)
with this design I could bi-amp it also correct..(2 inputs)

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I might as well do it myself...:confused::(

ARMED
08-16-2016, 02:26 PM
when I order the parts, for example I need a capacitor 72pf, do I get couple different ones to get 72? like 60+10+2?, do i need to worry about the tolerance and the voltage? i see 250/400v....1%/5%
this shows how bad I am when it comes to crossover components.. and for the resistors, the number mean the ohms correct? I need to read a fricking book!:banghead:

and are the film/foil capacitors and metalized polypropylene capacitors the same...what should i get? will i even hear the difference?

I could fix a multi million dollar fighter jet/aircraft and here i am struggling with a damn crossover

ARMED
08-16-2016, 06:19 PM
i got some pieces cut, i left the front baffle 1 piece..it will not be going sideways...
thats the reason i picked 4343, i wanted the mids and highs to be higher...
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ARMED
08-16-2016, 06:21 PM
the dog house internal dimensions will be 14.5x10x6

y60kuro
08-16-2016, 08:47 PM
Top size: 445mm x 267mm

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height : 139mm (include top 13mm )

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ARMED
08-16-2016, 09:47 PM
thanks y60kuro!!!

ARMED
08-18-2016, 10:13 AM
Hi,

Our forum member 4313B has suggest something like this:
so You can start from here, and adjust the driver sensitivity.

regards
ivicaI have read about hundreds of posts about the 4 way network...even 4313B said the 3143 belongs to the museum..
I guess ill go with the CC network...I just hope I don't mess it up...

ARMED
08-19-2016, 10:21 PM
dog house...it will be glued and screwed on the sides..

ARMED
08-19-2016, 10:24 PM
back panel with the door...yeah its not like the OEM...

door for the LE85 and 2405H

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quindecima
08-20-2016, 08:35 AM
It looks like everything is proceeding nicely.

ARMED
08-20-2016, 09:24 AM
thanks for the help!

berga12
08-24-2016, 05:29 AM
For me is a good idea to have a single front panel and a small back door panel for mid high.

At the final end this will be a Replica, so they will look superb in any case :)

I see a Signature driver....wonderful.

ARMED
08-28-2016, 12:01 AM
thanks berga12!!!

not so much here....still trying to figure out what kind of brace i need to use... might go with the poplar 1x2 (3/4x1.5)

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ARMED
08-28-2016, 12:03 AM
its getting there...

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y60kuro
08-28-2016, 12:06 AM
Nice set up ARMED . It is much tidy than my tired box :)

ARMED
08-28-2016, 09:15 PM
thanks man...

i got both boxes standing.. just test fitting the front and rear panels...
looks square enough to me...i just need to screw them down and brace them...
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1audiohack
08-28-2016, 09:42 PM
Those are going to be amazing.

Very good work there!!

Barry.

ARMED
08-28-2016, 09:53 PM
thanks barry! I appreciate all your help!!!
i should be done with the box sometime this week...then i just need to get some fiberglass insulation...
then the hardest part i think......veneering! oh well ill get there... maybe ill just paint it with the gray and black face..
but i really want that blue face!!!

y60kuro
08-28-2016, 10:29 PM
Very nice work ,Go blue face 4343 man .
You need these check list and dont leave list under the glass wool in the box .:)

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ARMED
08-30-2016, 09:53 PM
thanks Takahiro!

been busy! almost there!
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ARMED
08-31-2016, 08:26 PM
more bracing.. will add more! 73435

NWCgrad
09-01-2016, 02:30 PM
Build is looking really nice. I am watching your bracing scheme with interest as I am currently building a rather large enclosure.

What do you plan to use for the seal of the rear panel opening?

quindecima
09-02-2016, 08:38 AM
Build is looking really nice. I am watching your bracing scheme with interest as I am currently building a rather large enclosure.

What do you plan to use for the seal of the rear panel opening?

I don't think he needs to do that, those cabs are vented and a nice fit of the rear panel should be all that is needed. but WDIK

NWCgrad
09-02-2016, 11:43 AM
I don't think he needs to do that, those cabs are vented and a nice fit of the rear panel should be all that is needed. but WDIK

Most likely more than I on the topic. :D I was thinking of using a 1/16" layer of cork for a similar opening. Wouldbe nice to eliminate one more purchase.

grumpy
09-02-2016, 12:00 PM
big hole(s) in the front aside, you might be surprised at the level of non-static pressures in a bass reflex box...
enough to cause noises and annoying whistley(?) sounds in some cases. Some sort of pliable gasket should be ok,
as opposed to depending completely on precisely flat joining surfaces and uniform sealing pressure.

... it's possible to leave out gaskets and be ok/lucky, but note it's cheaper (long term) for mfgs to use them (or they wouldn't).

NWCgrad
09-02-2016, 12:18 PM
big hole(s) in the front aside, you might be surprised at the level of non-static pressures in a bass reflex box...
enough to cause noises and annoying whistley(?) sounds in some cases. Some sort of pliable gasket should be ok,
as opposed to depending completely on precisely flat joining surfaces and uniform sealing pressure.

... it's possible to leave out gaskets and be ok/lucky, but note it's cheaper (long term) for mfgs to use them (or they wouldn't).

AM I wrong to assume they used cork for the 43xx models? I have not read anywhere what JBL used back then. Speaker gasket material (ala Parts Express seems a little to thick).

ARMED
09-02-2016, 12:44 PM
As far as braces, i think im done. I used 1 inch baltic birch plywood, should be thick enough..im not going to use it in a club or something, so it shouldnt flex. Just home listening. I might turn it up once in a while when i get drunk..
For the small rear panel, i have some leftover cork sheet that used when I did my flooring..ill use that..I will also use that for the front panel. The front baffle will be removable with T nuts...

need to find some fiberglass/sound dampening and veneer....then paint

ARMED
09-02-2016, 01:04 PM
almost there
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ARMED
09-02-2016, 01:06 PM
oorah
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Odd
09-02-2016, 02:28 PM
Looks very nice.
Good work!

quindecima
09-02-2016, 03:27 PM
The front baffle will be removable with T nuts...


Those things suck! use threaded inserts, much nicer.

ARMED
09-02-2016, 04:45 PM
i might do that, ive never used them before..

quindecima
09-03-2016, 08:44 AM
Easy to use, measure the shank of the insert and drill a hole that size or a tad smaller and screw them in. Much nicer.

NWCgrad
09-03-2016, 01:05 PM
Easy to use, measure the shank of the insert and drill a hole that size or a tad smaller and screw them in. Much nicer.

Do you recommend the tapered hex drive or the brass slot head versions?

quindecima
09-03-2016, 04:27 PM
I have used both in different applications but I like the Hex drive a little better, I used them in my Altec build's and my 4351.

Chas
09-03-2016, 05:46 PM
[QUOTE=ARMED;396336]As far as braces, i think im done. I used 1 inch baltic birch plywood, should be thick enough..im not going to use it in a club or something, so it shouldnt flex. Just home listening. I might turn it up once in a while when i get drunk..

Ah, drinking and JBL four ways.... There isn't anything much better than that! ;);)
Enjoying your build, great work.

quindecima
09-03-2016, 09:31 PM
I just came in to look at the forum from a few glasses of Pinot and listening to some boogie woogie and blues, yep a little fruit of the vine and some 4 way is nice

ARMED
09-04-2016, 02:09 AM
im drunk....

ARMED
09-05-2016, 05:48 PM
lazy weekend, didnt do anything....
i will probably paint the inside, front and rear panel tomorrow...
then start drilling the holes to hold the front baffle...

berga12
09-06-2016, 05:46 AM
Original 4343 have no bracing to connect front panel to back panel? I would add a couple of "column".

ARMED
09-06-2016, 07:54 AM
yeah I thought about that, I might add some kinda bracing in the middle..

Krunchy
09-06-2016, 08:45 AM
[QUOTE=ARMED;396336]As far as braces, i think im done. I used 1 inch baltic birch plywood, should be thick enough..im not going to use it in a club or something, so it shouldnt flex. Just home listening. I might turn it up once in a while when i get drunk..

Ah, drinking and JBL four ways.... There isn't anything much better than that! ;);)
Enjoying your build, great work.
+1 :D Match made in Heaven.


im drunk....

:D :rotfl: Just wait till you have it set up and imbibe of your favorite beverage. The Cabs look really great, very nice Job! :applaud:

ARMED
09-08-2016, 02:32 PM
Krunchy...i cant wait!!! almost there....
crossver i think will take a while...

just mounted the front baffle.... I ended up using T nuts... i have them in stock!! why not...

GO PACK GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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ARMED
09-08-2016, 07:27 PM
yup i got bored and did some painting....of course the front baffle will be blue ;)
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ARMED
09-08-2016, 07:35 PM
veneer is next i think

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ARMED
09-08-2016, 09:20 PM
got an egg shell finish with a rough roller finish from lowes

ARMED
09-10-2016, 08:39 PM
anyone here got some leftover fiberglass yellow/pink whatever....(insulation?)
any suggestions?

BMWCCA
09-10-2016, 09:44 PM
anyone here got some leftover fiberglass yellow/pink whatever....(insulation?)
any suggestions?

Have you never been to a Lowe's or a Home Depot?

Or are you just looking for a small quantity? A cheap roll will fill several large cabinets. Get craft-faced and simply rip off the paper.

https://wimsattdirect.com/images/Images_1200x1200_RGB/_PGMin/PGMin_500310510_2.jpg

ARMED
09-10-2016, 10:02 PM
i have....how thick is it? do i just peel it to the thickness i want? i thought those are too thick?
i guess ill use that....

Mr. Widget
09-11-2016, 11:49 AM
They are too thick and also shed. Look for 1" non-backed ducting insulation.

You can search the forum for Wrapon or Wrap-on.


Widget

BMWCCA
09-11-2016, 12:28 PM
What's shown is probably for 6-inch stud walls on 16-inch centers. You can find it it different thicknesses for 2x4 studs or larger blanket rolls for attic insulation. I like the open aspect of the roll rather than the closed-face of others. I always felt the main reason for insulation blankets in speakers was to effectively increase the volume of the enclosure through the insulation. Seems to me a more rigid blanket defeats the purpose. Plus, what I've always used matched what was already in the C37 factory cabinets, so I figured that should work best. :dont-know:

Mr. Widget
09-11-2016, 12:39 PM
For clarity, this is what I was talking about. It is identical to what JBL was using in the 70's and 80's monitors.

http://wrap-on.com/product/bulk-roll-fiberglass/


Widget

ARMED
09-16-2016, 08:00 PM
i have my barzilay's old foam/fiberglass im gonna use for the dog house...and the back if it...

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ARMED
09-18-2016, 01:35 PM
3143 crossovers DIY

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ARMED
09-18-2016, 02:15 PM
the crossover is roughly 9x12 inches...
it will have 2 inputs, 1 for low and 1 for mids/highs..


is the schematic/layout ok? i cant find anyone to build me a charge coupled 3145..so im doing 3143

ivica
09-19-2016, 10:58 AM
the crossover is roughly 9x12 inches...
it will have 2 inputs, 1 for low and 1 for mids/highs..


is the schematic/layout ok? i cant find anyone to build me a charge coupled 3145..so im doing 3143

Hi ARMED,

What about coils mutual coupling in Your topology ?

reagrds
ivica

ARMED
09-19-2016, 07:44 PM
:blink: no habla....what do you mean

grumpy
09-19-2016, 07:56 PM
Put them at right angles to each other so they have a harder time talking to each other.
No habla indeed ;)

ARMED
09-19-2016, 08:08 PM
i hate it when someone ask question and youre intoxicated

yeah i think i read about it before like if youre using coils, it needs to be perpendicular to each other, like if you look in the hole, you shouldnt be able to see another coil's O hole. (standing)something about the magnetic field interference..something like that...im a noob...my bad...shits too late...its glued and done! I think its far enough
eh...i wonder if its really gonna make a big difference, like something my ear could hear

grumpy
09-19-2016, 09:10 PM
One person's subtle is another's "huge" difference. You've placed them fairly far apart, which also helps.
If you do any mods later though...

ARMED
09-19-2016, 09:33 PM
i apologize gents, a friend had to build it for me..:(
sorry i didnt make that clear, i dont want to claim someone elses work..
anywho....its done....i was a little scared to do it myself... didnt want to blow my amps...
thats the only thing that i didnt do...:dont-know:

ARMED
09-19-2016, 09:46 PM
anyone knows where to get the knobs for the L-pads? the sign shop from ebay doesnt have anything for sale

berga12
09-20-2016, 12:25 AM
why you don't build beech Knob starting from a cilindric stick of 12-15mm (I don't know real knob dimension).... :)

If you keep "clear" outside like mine 4355, the wooden knob should look really nice.:applaud: and beech wood is really hard.
beebeech

ARMED
09-20-2016, 02:16 PM
i might do that, just to try... i have a block of mahogany..

ARMED
09-20-2016, 04:19 PM
got this from italy...
the picture is a little dark...(dark room)
the guy from italy gave me 3 copies also!!!
cool guy

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ivica
09-21-2016, 11:42 AM
i hate it when someone ask question and youre intoxicated

yeah i think i read about it before like if youre using coils, it needs to be perpendicular to each other, like if you look in the hole, you shouldnt be able to see another coil's O hole. (standing)something about the magnetic field interference..something like that...im a noob...my bad...shits too late...its glued and done! I think its far enough
eh...i wonder if its really gonna make a big difference, like something my ear could hear

Hi ARMED,

Sorry for upset You, ....but I have understood that You have put a question:
"....is the schematic/layout ok?...."

May be it would be better to answer to Your question directly, and the answer would be:
NO, Your layout is NOT OK, due to the coils mutual coupling.

If You want to use coils with the iron core, near each other , You have to prevent the 'magnetic fields line' from one coil to pass through another. So use cores that are ALMOST 'closed as ring' (with the proper large) air-fissure, that would protect iron-core to saturate.

I would not expect that You can her these interference, but what "would drivers see" ???? I do not know.
regards
ivica

ARMED
09-21-2016, 12:05 PM
Ivica, he said they're far enough apart, that coupling is not going to happen. Anything farther than 2", and the magnetic fields have fallen off to such a small level (it's a function of the SQUARE of the distance- twice as far, one fourth the magnetic strength- so a small increase in distance makes a big difference in less magnetic field strength) that they won't have a measurable effect, this is what he told me, thanks for the input ivica

berga12
09-22-2016, 12:43 AM
HI, also in my opinion Coils are Far enough to prevent mutual coupling, so don't worry.

the "90°" rotation rules is used when the coils are really close each other (less than 1-1,5cm).

In general If I can, I use always 90°rules, Just as a safety excess.

ciao

ARMED
09-23-2016, 12:05 PM
yea....its done, ill keep it that way..

i wonder if these would look ok for the Lpads, i cant find the ones with the dot and the line in the middle or the originals

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TGS9QUC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1THAZDOWP300U

ARMED
09-24-2016, 10:37 PM
i still have to make the mounting plate for the Lpads and the thin plate for the foilcals....

ill do that monday...


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ARMED
09-24-2016, 10:38 PM
im still thinking where to mount it..

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berga12
09-26-2016, 12:40 AM
Bottom of the box? and you put on top few more layer for preventing vibration, use some silicon between and below caps.

I decided for external mount, but I also don't use variable L-pad.

ARMED
09-28-2016, 01:20 PM
so i got a olympic one brand, vivid blue color from lowes.. i kinda didnt like the blue mix from that one thread (info thread)..73811

ARMED
10-11-2016, 09:57 PM
so i started drinking, got drunk and got bored...i stained the plywood with minwax special walnut..

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i put about 2 coats..then i ran out...

ARMED
10-11-2016, 09:59 PM
i kept drinking and started painting the front baffle with vivid blue from lowes

2 coats...

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it looks a little bright when wet...its a little flat when it dries...
and the sun is shining directly to it..

ARMED
10-11-2016, 10:03 PM
i kept drinking until it dried...
and there i was!!!

i still have to paint the inside lip blue....and cover the screws with a wood filler...
for now...

i will veneer it soon!!!!!! just waiting for the right time...and still watching youtube on how to do it...

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ARMED
10-11-2016, 10:04 PM
will work on the ports and insulation this weekend..:bouncy::bouncy:

berga12
10-12-2016, 12:12 AM
Are you sure that you'll be able to glue the veener on the treated (minwax?) playwood? :confused: check that prior to start...

ARMED
10-12-2016, 05:14 AM
yah... its a stain...its not like a coat of paint...

NWCgrad
11-13-2016, 07:46 AM
Any movement in the build?

ARMED
12-24-2016, 09:44 PM
yes!!!!!!!!!!!!! been busy my bad...life...kids...work...stuff

ARMED
12-24-2016, 09:47 PM
got the 10 mids damaged!!!
its ok.....i fixed it

ARMED
12-24-2016, 09:51 PM
i planned to do a lot of shit........like little stuff but if i do that...i aint never gonna be done!!!!

ARMED
12-24-2016, 09:54 PM
yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARMED
12-24-2016, 09:59 PM
theres one thing for sure i messed up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the woofer is too low....that means a regular grill wouldnt fit...
whatever...ill make one..modified for sure...

i love the way it sounds!!!!!!!! clean!!!! dynamic!!!! lovely!!!!!!!!

ARMED
12-24-2016, 10:42 PM
im drunk............................................. ......my bad

JeffW
12-25-2016, 10:48 AM
Well, Merry Christmas, anyway! Glad you got 'em going :hurray:

quindecima
12-25-2016, 05:27 PM
No problem with the grills, just a minor re-design.

ARMED
12-25-2016, 09:43 PM
yeah i need a grill, i have a 2 year old!!

ARMED
01-02-2017, 10:42 AM
almost done!!!

1audiohack
01-02-2017, 05:17 PM
I love from scratch projects done well! Congrats!!

Barry.

ARMED
01-03-2017, 04:43 PM
hey Barry you have been a big help!!!!!! thanks a lot for the support!!!!!!!!!!!!
and of course all you guys that helped me out in the process

ARMED
01-04-2017, 08:00 PM
and thanks to a takahiro from japan for the tube amp!!!!

ARMED
01-20-2017, 11:21 PM
all this stuff i hear about tube amps....i decided to get one and try the 4343 with em....
yakov aronov ym-100 with 8 6550 tubes and 2 6an8
looking to get 8 kt88 or kit90s....

i made couple/few mistakes but i love it!!!!
currently using 2226H!!!!! i cant wait to get them 2235s!!!!!


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ARMED
01-20-2017, 11:34 PM
love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ARMED
01-20-2017, 11:43 PM
Barry!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks for all your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1audiohack
01-21-2017, 08:42 PM
Hey your welcome good brother!

Everything in the picture looks great, nice house!

Barry.

srm51555
01-22-2017, 05:59 AM
They look great, nice work.

NWCgrad
01-22-2017, 06:13 AM
:eek: That is one sweet looking rack of audio equipment. The room looks awesome! Congratulations on a job well done!

ARMED
02-05-2017, 07:58 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-4xY8wRIZM

im not sure if i can post a link....but thats how it sounds with mc2105 amp and a C32 pre amp...sounds like I need a roon treatment

quindecima
02-06-2017, 09:10 AM
Forget what it sounds like on Utube, that won't tell you squat. How does it sound to you is the question?

ARMED
02-06-2017, 07:02 PM
LOL, it sounds awesome to me.... i guess thats what matters

ARMED
03-10-2017, 01:32 PM
can someone PLEEEEEAAAASSEEEEEE make me a charge coupled crossover...

ARMED
03-10-2017, 06:28 PM
so if i were to make a diy crossover will these cut offs be ok

2226/2235-----35-100hz or 35-150hz
2123------------100-800hz or 150-800hz
LE85-------------800hz
2405-------------7500hz

ARMED
03-17-2017, 09:37 AM
also getting a Dayton mic to test my system....

do you guys have any DB app that you guys recommend for Iphones?
I was just gonna plug the mic to my iphone and start from there...

1audiohack
03-17-2017, 11:54 AM
I have been looking at the Studio Six stuff. I have lots of measument gear but none so portable.

Barry.

Mr. Widget
03-17-2017, 12:43 PM
I have been looking at the Studio Six stuff. I have lots of measument gear but none so portable. I have been very impressed with the Studio6 apps.

I haven't tried their hardware with the exception of the iTest mic.


Widget