Barn find 4435

[Chevelle]

Hello everybody,

after I got a tip from an owner of a studio in my hometown Hagen, Germany, I picked up a pair of 4435 from a warehouse. The speakers were used in the studio for 20 years and from there on stayed in the far corner in the dark. The foam of the 2234 are all rotten but the coils seem to be ok. I will disassemble the JBL this weekend and will keep you informed about the process of restoring. And the very best : I got them for free......

Hjalmar

[Earl K]

What a wonderful find . :D

I do hope you fill us in on the rest of this story as it progresses .

cheers <> EarlK

[Mr. Widget]

Amazing and wonderful story... Congratulations!

Yes, please keep us informed.


Widget

[1audiohack]

Super Sweet!!!

I can't imagine a better deal than that!

It's good to know they are in the hands of someone that will bring them back to right and appreciate them. Mine play all day every weekday.

+1 on keeping us up!

All the best,
Barry.

[mech986]

Congratulations. Those look to be in remarkable condition.

might I suggest gathering some of the dried branches and material from the barn / studio to make a small hanging or set sculpture to remind one of where they were found, good conversation starter.

plenty of good 4435 restoration stories here at LH and Audiokarma.

[Joseph Smith Jr]

Envy is not a positive emotion, but I'm feeling some of it right about now
Congratulations! And they look great as well
What is that heavy piece of wire or whatever it is on one of them?
Again, congratulations on such a wonderful windfall

Joe

[mech986]

Envy is not a positive emotion, but I'm feeling some of it right about now
Congratulations! And they look great as well
What is that heavy piece of wire or whatever it is on one of them?
Again, congratulations on such a wonderful windfall

Joe

Looks like the input wiring, just something really stiff.

[BMWCCA]

Free is good.

Getting something really worth having for free is really good! :applaud:

[ARMED]

oh wow! nice find congrats!!!

[Chevelle]

joe,

the heavy wires are soldered to the low input terminals in the back. They had a BGW 750 for the bass in the studio. Unfortunately the guy did not find the amp.

Hjalmar

[mech986]

Looking again and Finding the amp would very worthwhile.

[dprice]

Free? No. Those should at least cost you a really nice dinner as a thank you.

...and best of luck with the restoration!

[Chevelle]

Of course we had dinner at my cost before I drove back home to Hannover.....

I inspected everything today. There are 3 original 2234 with grey paint and one replacement 2234 with black paint. The 1" drivers are 2421A with original diaphragm. Cabinets look great after a rough cleaning.

Hjalmar

[Mr. Widget]

That is really awesome!

Baby those 2421As... If you can afford to, I'd buy a pair of OEM replacement diaphragms before they disappear from the earth. Also, if these monitors were used as they typically would have been, you may need to replace the diaphragms already. If they sound harsh or distorted, it will likely be due to their showing their age.


Widget

[mortron]

I love stories like this... shame to see great things collect dust, but it usually means a treasure find for someone such as yourself. This will be interesting to follow... will you be recapping the crossovers and everything as well?

[srm51555]

One usually finds an opportunity for 4343's or 4435's over a lifetime if they are lucky. Never in one year. Congrats Hjalmar!!! Can't wait to hear your impressions between the two.

[Chevelle]

As the 4435 were mounted in the wall the bases are missing. Can somebody please tell me the size of the base and the distance from the outside ? Is it only mounted on 3 sides ?

Thank you

Hjalmar

[1audiohack]

Just like the witness marks on yours show are how mine are. Front and sides only. Right about 1.5" / 38mm square stock.

I can measure the inset on Tuesday when I get back to the office.

Barry.

[Ed Zeppeli]

I think those bases are pretty close in size to a 2 x 4 ripped in half and stood on edge. That's what worked for me on my 4430s.

[Chevelle]

As somebody soldered the heavy wire to the input terminals I had to mount new ones. These are for thick wire and banana plugs and fit perfect. I will build the bases this weekend.

Hjalmar

[Chevelle]

I mounted the bases yesterday. So I am only waiting for the 4 foam kits to repair the 2234. Meanwhile there is time to sand and oil the cabinets. It is the first time that I will try this, will test it on an older cabinet first.....

Hjalmar

[1audiohack]

Looking good!

It will be fun to know how you feel they compare to your 4343's.

All the best,
Barry.

[Krunchy]

Looks like they cleaned up really nice, the Blue cloth looks excellent. Nice collection you got going there, great story. Congrats again & Enjoy. :)

[Chevelle]

Last night I finished refoaming the 2234s. I will fit them into the cabinets this weekend end then compare them to my 4343.

Hjalmar

[Chevelle]

After fitting the 2234 I was wondering how the 4435 would sound against my 4343. As I have not enough poweramps I have to connect the 4435 to internal crossover and a Crown DC300. My 4343 are bi-amped with DSP 2-way 290Hz, Pioneer SA9500 for hi and Pioneer Spec4 for low.
My first impression is that the 4435 have great image, the 4343 are more "spacious" and have less or no image. When I switch between the two it is hard to tell which sound better.
But when turning up the volume the 4343 have much better "punch" and dynamic. There is really no replacement for a 10" lowmid.
For the kind of music that I prefer the 4343 are the better choice. Electric guitars, drums and horns sound much better in my 63 years old ears.

Hjalmar

[ivica]

After fitting the 2234 I was wondering how the 4435 would sound against my 4343. As I have not enough poweramps I have to connect the 4435 to internal crossover and a Crown DC300. My 4343 are bi-amped with DSP 2-way 290Hz, Pioneer SA9500 for hi and Pioneer Spec4 for low.
My first impression is that the 4435 have great image, the 4343 are more "spacious" and have less or no image. When I switch between the two it is hard to tell which sound better.
But when turning up the volume the 4343 have much better "punch" and dynamic. There is really no replacement for a 12" lowmid.
For the kind of music that I prefer the 4343 are the better choice. Electric guitars, drums and horns sound much better in my 63 years old ears.

Hjalmar

Hi Chevelle,

So "incorporating" mid-bass such as 2202H into 4435 would be final solution...

regards
ivica

[1audiohack]

....But when turning up the volume the 4343 have much better "punch" and dynamic. There is really no replacement for a 10" lowmid...Hjalmar

My sentiment exactly!

Barry.

[ivica]

My sentiment exactly!

Barry.

Hi,

As previously written 12" instead of 10" after "correction", but I really like 2202 in 4350/55 combo.

regards
ivica

[Ed Zeppeli]

Hi Chevelle,

So "incorporating" mid-bass such as 2202H into 4435 would be final solution...

regards
ivica

Or perhaps a 2344 handling the high end on a 4343 set-up. That way you keep the superior imaging.

[Chevelle]

Or perhaps a 2344 handling the high end on a 4343 set-up. That way you keep the superior imaging.

The key to the superior imaging of the 4435 is the exact time alignment of the 2421 and the 2234. So the 2344 horn alone is not making the same image. I wonder if somebody has build a 4343 setup with all speakers in exact time alignment.

But anyway, the way the 4343 are constructed is right for the kind of music which was recorded with these monitors in the control room.

Hjalmar

[Ed Zeppeli]

The key to the superior imaging of the 4435 is the exact time alignment of the 2421 and the 2234. So the 2344 horn alone is not making the same image. I wonder if somebody has build a 4343 setup with all speakers in exact time alignment.

But anyway, the way the 4343 are constructed is right for the kind of music which was recorded with these monitors in the control room.

Hjalmar

Right. So a stepped baffle would be required or if using DSP, some delay for the woofer. I was of the understanding that what made the 2344 special was it's polar pattern. I suppose that if it's only time alignment that makes the 2344 and 2234/5 special, you could duplicate the imaging in your 4343s via DSP by digitally aligning them.

Regards,

Warren

[Mr. Widget]

The key to the superior imaging of the 4435 is the exact time alignment of the 2421 and the 2234. So the 2344 horn alone is not making the same image...That certainly was the belief in the early '80s. I disagree. I think controlled directivity and controlling the room's reflections are significantly more important.

To back this up, consider the 1400 Array. It most certainly is not time aligned and it has superior imaging to both the 44XXs and the entire 43XX series of monitors.



Widget

[Ed Zeppeli]

To back this up, consider the 1400 Array. It most certainly is not time aligned and it has superior imaging to both the 44XXs and the entire 43XX series of monitors.



Widget

Is the purpose of the horn in the Array hanging forward a bit then to bring the drivers closer together to eliminate certain lobing characteristics? I always thought that it was to bring the mid/high drivers forward and served an alignment purpose. Both possibilities make sense though.

Thanks,

Warren

[Mr. Widget]

Is the purpose of the horn in the Array hanging forward a bit then to bring the drivers closer together to eliminate certain lobing characteristics? I always thought that it was to bring the mid/high drivers forward and served an alignment purpose. Both possibilities make sense though.

Thanks,

WarrenWhile bringing the horn forward certainly does not hurt in getting closer to time alignment, the 1400 Array is certainly not time aligned. I believe the horn is brought forward to decouple it from the baffle.


Widget

[Chevelle]

After listening to most of my vinyl and cd I have to confirm that the 4343 sound best with productions that were recorded in the 70s and early 80s when these studio monitors were standard. A very good example is Kraftwerk - Menschmaschine. You can not hear it with the 4435, sounds terrible to me. With the 4343 it really is 3 dimensional sound, alive and dynamic. Maybe a remix on cd is better suited for the 4435.
Also very good examples are Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon - Wish You Were Here.

Hjalmar

[ivica]

Right. So a stepped baffle would be required or if using DSP, some delay for the woofer. I was of the understanding that what made the 2344 special was it's polar pattern. I suppose that if it's only time alignment that makes the 2344 and 2234/5 special, you could duplicate the imaging in your 4343s via DSP by digitally aligning them.

Regards,

Warren

Hi Ed Zeppeli,

If we look at the dimensions of the 2344 horn vs 2307 (as in 4343/44) it can be seen that its length is about 6.5", while 2307 is about 7", so I am not sure that 0.5" can be distinguished by the listener. Their dispersion pattern in horizontal plane does not differ too much, either (while 2307 is with 2308 lenses). May be on 2344 horn loading the driver is much better for lower frequencies, as it horn mouth is much larger. So may be comparing it with 4331 would give some answers.
So these are designers words:


regards
ivica

[Chevelle]

Ivica,

you are right with the length of the 2344 and 2307, but the 2344 is mounted forward in the 4430/35 so both coils are in the same plane. The 2307 is mounted flush on the baffle.

Hjalmar

[mech986]

A couple of thoughts - get the 4435's up about 4-8 inches and maybe with a bit of tilt forward to get the horn more at ear level.

the other is that if the 2421A's have the original diaphragms, it sounds like there may be a need to get them replaced with new diaphragms - likely they have become work hardened after so many years. Now finding (and affording) new aluminum diaphragms will be difficult. Replacing them with the 2425/2426 diaphragms (JBL OEM) is much easier, but might need a little tweak in the crossover. IMO, a pair of aquaplas dusted titanium diaphragms would be ideal.

Otherwise, you could then look at Radian diaphragms or a beryllium option if one exists and can be found. DO NOT use any of the cheap aftermarket "titanium" diaphragms out there, they are all junk as many here have found out or can attest to, they are a waste of your money.

If that doesn't solve it, then the crossovers are the next area to investigate - recapping, or consider a 4435 charge-coupled crossover. Some have liked biamping, others here have not found it to be a meaningful change, but I suppose that depends mightily on which amps are used.

However, no matter what, the 4435's are spec'ed to go only up to 16K or so with the compression driver and horn combo. The above may be helpful in the midrange to an extent but adding a 2405H or 2404H can help the top end (admittedly not the area your are talking about).

[Chevelle]

After inspecting the 2421 I found the reason for the harsh sound of the 4435: One had the titanium diaphragm and one the aluminium diaphragm. So I changed both to Radian 1225 and voila: much better, smooth and better soundstage. The Radian are the best aftermarket dias I know, they also play in my 4343. There is an interesting test on the German Behringer site:

http://www.behringer-electric.de/files/news/Radian_Truextent/Vergleichstest%20475BePB_vs_2426H_vs_2426_RadianAl u.pdf

Hjalmar

[Chevelle]

Last step for restoration is sanding and oiling. I used this Clou Hartwachs Öl. After 2 layers and rubbing the cabinets had a nice satin finish. It also gives the wood a nice smell......

Hjalmar