Good caps that fit into 4343b xover box

[Goldjazz]

I've located another 3143 x over. I want to totally recap this and replace my stock one so the stock remains unaltered.

Anyone know of good quality caps that are not huge in size ie will still fit in the xover box?

Here's a link to the meticulous and mysterious mr "Amp 8" from japan. Its seems old ampy has gone for inexpensive caps (ERO brand?) but hes got lots of them and measured capacitance and screened them. He's also put jumpers to bypass the rotary switch.

http://amp8.com/amp-etc/etc/jbl3143.htm (http://amp8.com/amp-etc/etc/jbl3143.htm)

[Joseph Smith Jr]

I've located another 3143 x over. I want to totally recap this and replace my stock one so the stock remains unaltered.

Anyone know of good quality caps that are not huge in size ie will still fit in the xover box?

Here's a link to the meticulous and mysterious mr "Amp 8" from japan. Its seems old ampy has gone for inexpensive caps (ERO brand?) but hes got lots of them and measured capacitance and screened them. He's also put jumpers to bypass the rotary switch.

http://amp8.com/amp-etc/etc/jbl3143.htm

What exactly is he selling? Network overhauls, parts or both?
ERO is a decent quality of cap, Fisher used a ton of them back when Fisher was Fisher but I do not know of anything particularly special about them other than their construction quality is good
I have checked plenty of them more than 50 years old and they were still well within spec and leakage, even after high voltage use, so maybe that's why he likes them
When used for coupling duties they do do a good job of not adding anything to the mix
The deal at one time was to replace automatically due to location but I have been reading as of late a lot of guys are leaving them in
If I am not mistaken they are also now defunct, that or doing business under a new name and owner, like SBE used to be division of Sprague, so those caps are most likely NOS

I would have absolutely no problems trying them for network duty, they'd probably work just fine, but I certainly would not pay any sort of premium for them if he's looking for one

[just4kinks]

ERO makes all kinds of caps, those mkt1813's are highly regarded but in general you should stick with polypropylene (KP or MKP) for the large value caps.

Not much you can do about the size unless you can find them with a lower voltage rating.

[Goldjazz]

What exactly is he selling? Network overhauls, parts or both?
ERO is a decent quality of cap, Fisher used a ton of them back when Fisher was Fisher but I do not know of anything particularly special about them other than their construction quality is good
I have checked plenty of them more than 50 years old and they were still well within spec and leakage, even after high voltage use, so maybe that's why he likes them
When used for coupling duties they do do a good job of not adding anything to the mix
The deal at one time was to replace automatically due to location but I have been reading as of late a lot of guys are leaving them in
If I am not mistaken they are also now defunct, that or doing business under a new name and owner, like SBE used to be division of Sprague, so those caps are most likely NOS

I would have absolutely no problems trying them for network duty, they'd probably work just fine, but I certainly would not pay any sort of premium for them if he's looking for one

Cheers for the reply. Just to clarify Amp 8 guy is not selling anything, that's just an image of a 3143 recap he did, I've just linked that as an example of someone who has used smaller size caps. I will be buying an unmodified 3143 X over. So I'm basically looking or the best caps I can fit into the box itself. My intention is the following:

1. Keep the stock X over
2. Get a new unmodifed X over and replace with fresh caps
3. Eventually build an entirely new crossover that I'll mount externally where I won't be limited by cap size. Probably a CC design.

I'd like to have all three of these for comparison.

[Goldjazz]

ERO makes all kinds of caps, those mkt1813's are highly regarded but in general you should stick with polypropylene (KP or MKP) for the large value caps.

Not much you can do about the size unless you can find them with a lower voltage rating.

Yeah i wonder what the max voltage rating I need is? Also just curious does anyone kno what Amp 8 guy has done in his recap with the larger caps, he's removed them and where they were are wires leading into some white paste. Also I note he has repaced some resistors too, is this a good idea as well?

[kelossus]

I would leave the original crossovers alone and build CC'd crossovers on a piece of mdf/ply. Also consider bypassing the tone controls with resistors once you are happy with the balance.

In Australia I think Mundorfs M-Caps or Jantzens Crosscaps are competitively priced and if you bias the networks no need to use anything fancier. I have used crosscaps in my CC'd L212's and will do so in my 250TI's.

Just go straight to CC'd networks rather than the extra cost of replacing the capacitors in the stock network. Huge benefits can be had with modern wax coils and MOX resistors and upgrading the coils can be as big of an upgrade as changing the caps.

[Goldjazz]

I would leave the original crossovers alone and build CC'd crossovers on a piece of mdf/ply. Also consider bypassing the tone controls with resistors once you are happy with the balance.

In Australia I think Mundorfs M-Caps or Jantzens Crosscaps are competitively priced and if you bias the networks no need to use anything fancier. I have used crosscaps in my CC'd L212's and will do so in my 250TI's.

Just go straight to CC'd networks rather than the extra cost of replacing the capacitors in the stock network. Huge benefits can be had with modern wax coils and MOX resistors and upgrading the coils can be as big of an upgrade as changing the caps.

Cheers Kelossus. Maybe you're right. It's what i really want to do. Good point about bipassing the caps. Just digging around the threads to take a look at the appropriate schematic, just a bit confused. Seems what's been discussed before is an upgraded CC design that also requires upgrading to the 4344 drivers. If anyone can point me to a design which doesnt require upgrading the drivers I may give this a go.

[Joseph Smith Jr]

ERO makes all kinds of caps, those mkt1813's are highly regarded but in general you should stick with polypropylene (KP or MKP) for the large value caps.

Not much you can do about the size unless you can find them with a lower voltage rating.
ERO proper does not make anything anymore, always related to Roederstein business wise but a separate company from, eventually they were acquired and integrated under the Roederstein umbrella which was later aquired by Vishay
http://www.vishay.com/landingpage/50year/roederstein.html
Interestingly enough, Vishay also owns Sprague today as well

[Joseph Smith Jr]

I do not understand what is so sacred about old networks with worn out parts
I have seen a lot of posts here in which people are stating they want to save the originals
Even on speakers from the '70s and the '80s
JBL used several different brands of caps, pots from more than one supplier and hardly the craftsmanship of a jeweler to assemble most of them
But I'm talking primarily the ones assemble on hardboard, not the box types under discussion
Still?
I don't get it
I do get it for stuff made before say 1960, but after that?
Re-cap them, and if it's so important just photograph them extensively before any work is done and put all the parts you remove in a bag and save them

[Goldjazz]

I do not understand what is so sacred about old networks with worn out parts
I have seen a lot of posts here in which people are stating they want to save the originals
Even on speakers from the '70s and the '80s
JBL used several different brands of caps, pots from more than one supplier and hardly the craftsmanship of a jeweler to assemble most of them
But I'm talking primarily the ones assemble on hardboard, not the box types under discussion
Still?
I don't get it
I do get it for stuff made before say 1960, but after that?
Re-cap them, and if it's so important just photograph them extensively before any work is done and put all the parts you remove in a bag and save them

Yeah I understand your point. In my case one reason is resale value its good to have the oroginal xovers untouched. Having said that I will probably never selll mine. Other reason is in case the recap doesnt sound right got something to return to for comparison withoit rebuildimg the old xover again. Get your point though.

[Joseph Smith Jr]

Yeah I understand your point. In my case one reason is resale value its good to have the oroginal xovers untouched. Having said that I will probably never selll mine. Other reason is in case the recap doesnt sound right got something to return to for comparison withoit rebuildimg the old xover again. Get your point though.
Hi,
My comments weren't directed at you, just in general
I mean it's like I see people paying a hundred dollars or more for two cap networks on ebay because they're "all original"
I mean WHO CARES?
Like a Paragon or something, maybe I can see that but even then it's because it's a museum piece
JBL used from the late 60s up until the 80s and maybe beyond nondescript made in mexico caps, what's to preserve?
The crappy soldering? The slopped on glue? The crappy pots? The collectible masonite squares and rectangles?
I realize the nice cast and sheet metal box types are another story, but as for the caps inside them? Why waste being able to use something so nice and well made because the passives inside were average at best or are worn out or off spec today? Makes no sense to me.
I do always bag and tag parts I remove on all restorations as a matter of reference, and because like you said, when you sell something there's always a constituency that wants all the bad parts and even the specs of dirt

I definitely understand where you're coming from, I've just never understood the obsession for this got to keep and preserve the original original practice adamantly preached by some, like these things are Civil War battle flags or something

[Goldjazz]

Yeah good points. The bag n tag approach sounds like a good one.