4344 mkII DIY help

[laszlo]

Hello out there


I´ve got inspired by this side (thanks!!!) and watching and listening to 43 series of this wonderful speakers on the internet.
Therefore i started collecting parts for 4344mkII.


Can you guys help me with drawings and wirering diagram for 4344?
My dream is to creat a clone of the original speakers.


Thanks for the passion http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/icons/icon11.png


Best Regards Laszlo

[Odd]

71766

4344 mkII

[laszlo]

Thank You ODD.
Great!!!

[laszlo]

Hello

Can anyone help with cabinet drawings for the 4344 mkII?

thanks

[Odd]

You've chosen a monitor that is not so easy and create exact replica of.
It can be hard to find ME150H and 275ND.
If you can buy them there is no problem.
Have not seen drawings of the cabinet, but you have exterior dimensions.

4344 MK ll (http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-speakers/1997-4344mkii.htm)

[Ed Zeppeli]

Right in the brochure above is says that the MKII's dimensions are exactly the same as the original 4344's...:hmm:

[Amnes]

Here are some files prepared by forum member Ayaboh:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v0w0k9fx15...4344-Final.rar (https://www.dropbox.com/s/v0w0k9fx1559pf6/4344-Final.rar)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...44-Network.pdf (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53274548/4344-Network.pdf)
https://db.tt/2c3CZ1Fz

And a vid of my "clones" (HF driver is a 2425h, WF 2235h)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7j-jXom61Q

[laszlo]

Totally amazed by your work!!!
Thank You

[Amnes]

It wouldn't have been possible without the generous help of LH forum members. Ayaboh's plans were a major contribution to the build.

[Odd]

ME 150H (http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/torget-annonse-nr-132480)for sale in Norway. (http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/torget-annonse-nr-132480)

Not mine.

[laszlo]

Thanks.
I need one 2235h. Then i am ready to start the woodwork.


ME 150H (http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/torget-annonse-nr-132480)for sale in Norway. (http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/torget-annonse-nr-132480)

Not mine.

[laszlo]

7403774038740397404074041

[Odd]

Yes, why not when you want to build.

We watch.

[laszlo]

it is becoming apparent to me how huge these speakers are.

74104

Some of the parts for the filter has arrived.

74105

74106

74107

An old neighbor makes signs for connecting plate.

74108

[laszlo]

74109


The paint is ready for use.

74110

[laszlo]

Hi
Can some of you members please refer me to a store that sells the original screws for mounting the speakers? I have a hard time finding UNF UNC screws here in Denmark.
I found boltdepot.com but they do not ship outside the US.
Thanks Laszlo

[dn92]

In France we have this address specialized in JBL, you'll be able to find exactly the needed model:
http://www.restauraudio.fr/pieces/index.html
http://www.restauraudio.fr/contact/index.html

pos gave me also a web site address in Germany, but I didn't find it in my records.

For exchanging information, can you tell me what is your connecting plate, and where to get it, it seems to be exactly the connecting plate used in TAD crossovers.

[ARMED]

it is becoming apparent to me how huge these speakers are I said the same thing when I was building my 4343...I didn't think it was gonna be that tall!!! without the stands:o:

[laszlo]

Hi and thanks for the link.

Those terminals you seen on the pictures is from eBay.
i was planned to use them for the external crossover like this:
how many do you need? I bought more than I'm going to use.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/webkit-fake-url://54536359-14f1-4168-b722-d01641004e14/imagepng

In France we have this address specialized in JBL, you'll be able to find exactly the needed model:
http://www.restauraudio.fr/pieces/index.html
http://www.restauraudio.fr/contact/index.html

pos gave me also a web site address in Germany, but I didn't find it in my records.

For exchanging information, can you tell me what is your connecting plate, and where to get it, it seems to be exactly the connecting plate used in TAD crossovers.

[laszlo]

74151Sorry. The picture was missing:
In France we have this address specialized in JBL, you'll be able to find exactly the needed model:http://www.restauraudio.fr/pieces/index.htmlhttp://www.restauraudio.fr/contact/index.htmlpos gave me also a web site address in Germany, but I didn't find it in my records.For exchanging information, can you tell me what is your connecting plate, and where to get it, it seems to be exactly the connecting plate used in TAD crossovers.

[laszlo]

74151Sorry. The picture was missing:
The Kenrick terminals on the video are custom made and can't by on the net. The ones I found on eBay is not exact the same!!! Just for information:)

[laszlo]

I said the same thing when I was building my 4343...I didn't think it was gonna be that tall!!! without the stands:o:

Hi
About the stands to the speakers.
Is there a recommended height for HF or UHF drivers compared to ear?

[fabrice11]

In France we have this address specialized in JBL, you'll be able to find exactly the needed model:
http://www.restauraudio.fr/pieces/index.html
http://www.restauraudio.fr/contact/index.html

pos gave me also a web site address in Germany, but I didn't find it in my records.

For exchanging information, can you tell me what is your connecting plate, and where to get it, it seems to be exactly the connecting plate used in TAD crossovers.



http://www.zollshop.de (http://www.zollshop.de/) :)

[laszlo]

Many thanks Fabrice !!! screws are ordered.
It is super nice with the help of this forum.

Do you have suggestions for stand height for optimal listening height?
I assume that 4355 was designed to be built into walls for studies and not stand on the floor?

thanks Laszlo

[laszlo]

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[laszlo]

741977419874199

[ivica]

Hi laszlo,

Really nice work.
Some measurements data would be welcome.

regards
ivica

[laszlo]

Hi ivica

I try to make a replica of the original 4355 with the correct drivers and using the drawings from this site.

[laszlo]

Hi
can someone please give me an advice about stand for the 4355.
I need a stand on wheels and could use the hight for the best listening position.

Thanks laszlo

[berga12]

Nice Job! Although I don't like MDF at all! (to work with)

[laszlo]

74323743247432574326

[laszlo]

7432774328743297433074331

[laszlo]

74353743547435574356

[berga12]

Wow nice modern components! I Also need an air coil on the mid!

[laszlo]

Hi
can You tell me what dimension cables was used internal in the speakers?
cheers

[berga12]

2,6mmq for Woofers and MF
1,3mmq for HF and UHF

[laszlo]

2,6mmq for Woofers and MF
1,3mmq for HF and UHF

Great Thanks.

[laszlo]

74379

[Odd]

It will probably be okay, but I'd put coils with slightly longer distance.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/coils.htm

[berga12]

Especially the one "beside" the 2,4mH in the same direction, just to avoid issue...

Question, which schematic you decided to use? the Equivalent not charged coupled that use the Coils to simulate the autotransformer?

[laszlo]

You guys are great.
precis why I put the picture up so I can get advice from you.
I rearrange the coils... and puts 2. layout up later.


The diagram is borrowed from H.B from the forum.

cheers

[laszlo]

74380

[Odd]

This is a much better solution!

Coils will not affect each others.

[berga12]

Ciao,
I don't see problem with last design due to distance > than 2cm.

but if you want to Avoid 100% mutual coupling, do a further improvement.

Personal suggestion: Separate the filter in "clearly visible" Cells (MF-HF-UHF) in section.
don't place the filter inside the cabinet (vibration, future modification, solderjoint failures/crack, multiamping passive etc..)

If you keep the filter outside there is no need to use Glue to fix components or many straps.

74403

[laszlo]

Many thanks for the comment :-)
I was inspired by Mr. Widget's external filter and used it as inspiration.

[laszlo]

74494744957449674497

[laszlo]

744987449974500

[laszlo]

7452174522

[berga12]

Nice Job, Kenrick style!

IMHO I would use Wood for knob (hard one...) or ALuminium.

ebony?
beech?

[laszlo]

74665746667466774668

[Odd]

Very nice job!
We follow.

[berga12]

Very nice!

Mount the driver first,it's not so easy to screw him now :)

[laszlo]

Thank You

I´m just trying the horn.
still missing some kind of support plate for the driver

[berga12]

Check mine and DR.db support , just "half moon" wood support

[laszlo]

I would do. Thanks.
Considering the size, they would never be hung up or rotated so there's probably no reason to fix them all the way?

[laszlo]

How much filling is needed for the 2202?

[berga12]

full :D

I would say.......from 30 to 50 Liters or 10-15cm per side...:blink:

[laszlo]

many thanks for the help so far. It is so good with your help!!!

[berga12]

You're welcome! bui I'm not the "Law" or a JBL engineer :) I'm Just coming from a recent experience and some others speaker building, but anyone can suggest you something different or slightly different!

For Example, for me was really helpfull the 3D of Challenger (and dr.db) and Others 4355 replica, I received from them many hints and suggestions coming from their experience.

Of course I did my personal choice in some cases.

My speakers Sound Amazing to me, and I hope you will also have the same experience!

[laszlo]

74831
These baby's coming to be the best Christmas presents for myself.
Still missing the bracket for the 2441 but its ordered from local metal company.

[berga12]

You are also the Fastest on retreiving components from the market! nice!

[laszlo]

Thanks but not really.
I started at the beginning of the year to look for drivers and parts.
1. attempt to buy 2202H I fell unfortunately in some traps. A French seller, which I later found on various forums. Including this one. Warning warning, all over. He's not nice.
2nd attempt, accident with the freight but it was not the seller's fault. The carrier lost the package so both driver were destroyed. What a loss. They were otherwise MINT.
First third attempt to acquire 2202H went to be OK. And funnily enough I found them here in Denmark.


So it certainly has not been easy, or cheap.

1.Package from France. What a nice cone, handpainted all over by a 5 years old, and fresh glue to make the perfect finish.

7484674847

2. Drivers arrived from Spain in perfect packing but unfortunately:

74848

[berga12]

Oh my god.........
what a loss of drivers and a lot of money!!!!

I was so nervous when I received my 2202's from USA (I'm from Italy.....) before shipping I requested a specific way of packaging (due to past experience) and the picture of the package to be able to ask for some more modification, shipping was ok.... (price from USA not! due to tax....)

2nd time to be really nervous when I got my 6x2235h from Germany (after searching for 9months, thanks Kevin...), but lukly this seller was so expert that made a huge package (2pcs x box and 1 on each box separate.......) with "Expand Foam bag" inside, so the Loudspeaker was fully sorrounded of Foam, was even "difficult" to remove the magnet from this package.

You have been really unlucky.... :(

[laszlo]

P.S.
I've got almost all my money back from the seller. "only" lust about 250 Euro plus a lot of time.

[laszlo]

So after two failed orders, I went crazy on the web.
And found an old ad from 2015 here in the DK.
No phone number only the first name and city.
After about 20 failed calls I gave up.
Later that night the phone rings and a curious man says I called him earlier when he was not home.
Just imagine. He was the man with two nice 2202H´s which wasnt sold last year and they were packed nicely.
So a little luck was in the game, right? :)

[laszlo]

7485674857

still need the pegs but it's beginning to looks like JBL

[laszlo]

74947

[laszlo]

749827498474983

[laszlo]

Hello out there

i am ready to glue the back plate and just realised that it's not possible to change the 2441 or take it out !
is it right?

laszlo

[berga12]

It s possibile...by one woofer hole....with many complaint

[laszlo]

Thanks for replying great!
cheers

[Challenger604]

Hi there!
You will have just enough room to slide it out if needed.
very nice brackets!
C

[laszlo]

Thank you guys.

It's gonna be a great Christmas.
Cheers from Danmark and thank you for the inspiration!
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74995

[grumpy]

Very nice :)

:sleigh:

[Challenger604]

Gorgeous Laszlo!
merry Christmas!

[JeffW]

Very nice work, the large format monitor builds are really something. I'm glad you found a nice pair of mid drivers after that other disaster.

[laszlo]

75017

[berga12]

very nice! Crossover on the top or below the trolley?

It seems I'm the only one not able to find a nice wood block to prepare my own trolleys!!! :(

[laszlo]

Thank Berga.
I am almost sure that they should be under the speakers.
The trolleys is only temporary until I find out where 4355's to stand an how high!

Have som issues with the 2202´s at the moment. They playing to loud for me.

I need to design a piece of furniture, like Challenger604 also uses.
Imagining placing the amplifier´s same, under the speakers.


New moghoni buttons to the crossovers.

75238

[berga12]

If 2202 play too Loud you have some issue in the crossover...check the schematic and connections.

is definitively clean and smoth,not loud.

Or you attenuate 2441 and 2405 too much.

[laszlo]

Both crossovers and speakers behave alike so I have to check the resistors again.
The 2441 and 2405 must also be attenuate too much because I have to screw max up on both potentiometers.




If 2202 play too Loud you have some issue in the crossover...check the schematic and connections.

is definitively clean and smoth,not loud.

Or you attenuate 2441 and 2405 too much.

[berga12]

Both crossovers and speakers behave alike so I have to check the resistors again.
The 2441 and 2405 must also be attenuate too much because I have to screw max up on both potentiometers.


Are the LPAD for 8 and 16ohm?

which kind of Active crossover and Amp are you using?

I'm not using the variable Lpad, but Just using the Fixed LPAD that you find in the Chargecoupled Crossover (I've not done charge coupled version but normal ones...) that should be "0" level, means Flat, and I'm just fine with the Level, I'm adjusting just the gain on the active Crossover.

[laszlo]

Hi

16ohm for 2441 and 8ohm for 2405.

75290

I´m using 5235 with this card:
75291

The amp is COPLAND CVA 535.

Could you send me the chematic of your crossover so i can compare?

I will try without the L pads later today.

Thank you Berga

[berga12]

Mine is basically the Charged coupled schematic....not charged coupled.

some Value are slightly different from the Chargecoupled because I had already at home close value for the filter, and this is not affecting too much the crossover point, and I don't feel the need of modification, maybe I'll try something in the future, for the moment I'm happy.

I'm still waiting some silver mica 0,01uF bypass capacitor to be inserted in the filter.

With this version I don't need variable LPAD, I have fixed Hypex UCD400 on 2235h (about 400W 4ohm) and crossover I have JBL5235 with home made 290hz board,and an Outstanding sounding Bryston 10B (if compared to JBL....that sound good, but not the state of the art) setup at 250hz 18db.

For the mid-high I'm using: MC2120 (120W 8ohm), Hypex NC500OEM (250W 8ohm), UESUGI 211 tube amplifier (15W 8ohm), within the range of attenuation of the crossovers I'm able to setup the right level with every amplifier (the UESUGI have a huge gain in the first preamplifier session) but in every case I did not need any change in the crossover from listening point of view.

In general I'm very critic especially on the different Levels, but the reproduction it seems so Real to me that I'm not becoming crazy to search for a possible change.


I know that many other users use your crossover version, but I don't like too much the way they decide to substitute the autotransformer, I should try this version also to be able to Judge, problem is that every crossover cost few hundred €.....and dismounting mine's is not my willing. I should try with cheap materials, but then? what's the result????

7529275293

[laszlo]

Hi

Great thanks.

What about the settings in 5235? Witch preset are you using for Low Freq. Cutoff?

[berga12]

Hi

Great thanks.

What about the settings in 5235? Witch preset are you using for Low Freq. Cutoff?


Flat setup on the switch (check the manual), it make no sense for me, in an apartment, to boost the Low end, Just IMHO.

Now I've the Bryston 10b in the system, but still keep the Piece of History UREI.

[ivica]

Mine is basically the Charged coupled schematic....not charged coupled.

some Value are slightly different from the Chargecoupled because I had already at home close value for the filter, and this is not affecting too much the crossover point, and I don't feel the need of modification, maybe I'll try something in the future, for the moment I'm happy.

I'm still waiting some silver mica 0,01uF bypass capacitor to be inserted in the filter.

With this version I don't need variable LPAD, I have fixed Hypex UCD400 on 2235h (about 400W 4ohm) and crossover I have JBL5235 with home made 290hz board,and an Outstanding sounding Bryston 10B (if compared to JBL....that sound good, but not the state of the art) setup at 250hz 18db.

For the mid-high I'm using: MC2120 (120W 8ohm), Hypex NC500OEM (250W 8ohm), UESUGI 211 tube amplifier (15W 8ohm), within the range of attenuation of the crossovers I'm able to setup the right level with every amplifier (the UESUGI have a huge gain in the first preamplifier session) but in every case I did not need any change in the crossover from listening point of view.

In general I'm very critic especially on the different Levels, but the reproduction it seems so Real to me that I'm not becoming crazy to search for a possible change.


I know that many other users use your crossover version, but I don't like too much the way they decide to substitute the autotransformer, I should try this version also to be able to Judge, problem is that every crossover cost few hundred €.....and dismounting mine's is not my willing. I should try with cheap materials, but then? what's the result????

7529275293

Hi berga12,

As i have understood Your suggestion is a variation on the 4313B member fist suggestion

Regards
Ivica

[berga12]

Yes Ivica, it's 4313b version with single cap and no battere. A simple crossover.

[laszlo]

First session of measuring

[UreiCollector]

Beautiful work!!!

[ompdiburi]

Hello everybody, short question about 4344 and other 43XX monitors since my carpenter is near to complete the job, the correct finishing of the back of the speaker is black paint, right?
THX
Giuliano

[Challenger604]

Hello everybody, short question about 4344 and other 43XX monitors since my carpenter is near to complete the job, the correct finishing of the back of the speaker is black paint, right?
THX
Giuliano

Yes!

[laszlo]

After some minor adjustments and better damping of the cabinets, I am fully satisfied with the best speaker I have ever heard. This forum and JBL is so amazing !!!

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[Challenger604]

They are beautiful Laszlo! And I'm sure they sound terrific as well!

Enjoy!
C

[Earl K]

Congratulations ! Nice Work !

:)

[berga12]

How they sound in the corner? And the bass as they are on the floor?

interested on the fine tuning of the damp you have done!

great job indeed!

[laszlo]

Hi

I had to put more damping material in the 2202's cabinets.
And did the same in the back of the large cabinet.

How sound is?
Super detailed, incredibly dynamic and the stereo perspective is phenomenal.
The bass is very direct.
I am very impressed with how much sound these speakers provide.
And not least, it's the first time I experience that almost all my records sounds supreme.

If I had the opportunity to buy these speakers back in the 80's. Had saved a lot of time and money :)

[berga12]

I have the same impression in my records, but if the records is not good at all it's quite transparent and clear from those speakers.

I think also the setup have a big influence.

Great job!!!