My Barzilay box rebuild!

[ARMED]

this will be my first box that I actually will try and restore, any comments or tips please let me know
never done it before but with the help of Google and Youtube i should be good to go right...and of course you guys!

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[srm51555]

Those look nice, whats inside them?

[ARMED]

I has D131, 075 and an N2400...
they sound awesome as is...but the box needs a lot of attention. The front and rear panels are all old and soft...im planning on making new ones...
theres no low end at all, I understand that they don't really go that low but if I get a good seal and maybe a better port, I might get a little....:dont-know:
the tweeters are all original...I think, its still have that red wax stamped by JBL...

[grumpy]

...don't really go that low but if I get a good seal and maybe a better port, I might get a little....:dont-know:

Don't get your hopes up, but nice driver set!

Might try to save the lattice though (if possible and not too messed up). Some folks actually like the look :)

[ARMED]

so i started tearing it down...this thing is in bad shape (box) but it sound awesome!
drivers are still good, the LPAD i think needs cleaning...any advice how to? back piece of the Lpad comes off, do i just spray the deoxit on there?
do i need to recap it? or dont mess with it? i heard/read people put new caps and hear big difference...:confused:
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[ARMED]

Don't get your hopes up, but nice driver set!

Might try to save the lattice though (if possible and not too messed up). Some folks actually like the look :)i know, ive heard...i might add a subwoofer to help up with the lows i think..some guy selling 2226hpl for 120-150 for 2...but the thing is huge...that mean i will need a huge box! my wife will divorce me if she sees another speaker box in our house:blink:

i wonder if a regular powered subwoofer like home audio/HT would help?its smaller and i could actually hide it behind the barzilays...:dont-know:

[Mr. Widget]

i know, ive heard...i might add a subwoofer to help...Do your research. The 2226 is NOT a sub and has limited utility as a very low frequency driver. A real sub would help, but you'll need to biamp or go with something like a decent powered sub. Your speakers are extremely efficient and will not easily mate with most subs.

I have the same drivers and network in a pair of DIY Apollos from the late '50s or early '60s. Nice speakers but definitely lacking in bass. I would toss the networks entirely if I was going to mess around with them... Then I'd want to add bass, improve the tweeter, and then... no, I haven't touched them.


Widget

[ARMED]

Do your research. The 2226 is NOT a sub and has limited utility as a very low frequency driver. A real sub would help, but you'll need to biamp or go with something like a decent powered sub. Your speakers are extremely efficient and will not easily mate with most subs.

I have the same drivers and network in a pair of DIY Apollos from the late '50s or early '60s. Nice speakers but definitely lacking in bass. I would toss the networks entirely if I was going to mess around with them... Then I'd want to add bass, improve the tweeter, and then... no, I haven't touched them.


Widget2225?2235? im fricking lost with all this numbers!!! i guess the cheapest way for me is to get a regular powered subwoofer like a single 12 thanks! i guess ill do that when i get done...

[dprice]

Any thoughts from the audience on this idea?

Split the cabinet into two chambers. The front half includes the D131 in a sealed enclosure. The rear half gets a subwoofer driver and obviously becomes a subwoofer. Add a plate amp to each cabinet for subwoofer power.

I think it is a great idea...since it is mine.

[srm51555]

Id just restore them and leave the components as is. Enjoy them for what they are, keeping time period stuff together can bring you back or to an era. They are beautiful and hopefully the lattice is good enough to restore.

[BMWCCA]

I wouldn't decrease the enclosure volume for the woofer. If anything it needs more. It looks like the D131 is mounted on a baffle adapter plate. Most likely underneath it is a hole for mounting a 15-inch woofer. Perhaps a D130 would be better, giving the normal 030 system, but still a bit bass challenged. If you went with a 130A then you'd need a mid-range like a LE175DLH, plus two more crossovers for each side. No improvement will be cheap and none likely to sound better than another system purchased for less than the modifications to the Barzilays would cost. :dont-know:

Enjoy them for what they are and don't expect the best from them. It's a compromise system in a compromised enclosure. I enjoyed my 030 system for years in a C37 cabinet . . . until I got the 4345s, then they had little interest for me other than nostalgia. Still have them though. It's only money!

[ARMED]

thanks guys, this is actually my first JBL set! so for sure im gonna keep this for a while...
the last speaker i had was the SP3200 Sansui...this is waaaay better...:bouncy:

ohby the way i picked up an old fender cab with 2 15s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:applaud:

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[ARMED]

inwork
changing the front face...its all old and cracked..new face
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[ARMED]

i decided to put the port in the rear... i wonder if thats gonna hurt it? :blink:
i used wood conditioner(water base) then stained it with red mahogany...stain was oil base
the polyurethane (water base) i put about 3 coats of polyurethane...
im gonna be using 4 inch diameter round port 4 inches long, flared..7162471625716267162771628

[ARMED]

just sanded it! and ready for the final coat....i will be using spray can polyurethane for better coating i guess...i dont like the brush, you could see the lines716297163071631

[ARMED]

The front piece will be satin black, just wanted to how it looks stained.

I will modify the grills to where i could take it off from the outside..so will be intalling the front piece with the grill...

[ARMED]

done with the finish71681716827168371684

[ARMED]

cleaner and cheaper! bed topping for 15$ i had to get it...and enough to cover the whole thing
is this a bad idea?
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[1audiohack]

Hi Armed;

Closed cell foam wont help at all inside. Reticulated foam is better but nothing beats glass fiber.

If you can't breath through it or water won't pour straight through it keep looking.

Those are looking good!

Barry.

[ARMED]

i guess i can take it off....:banghead::confused:
how about the r30 pink fiberglass insulation? will that work?

[ARMED]

i guess i will be taking it off! and replace it716907169171692

[ARMED]

so i put everything back, all i have to do is trim the grill/lattice, so that I could take it off from the outside...

[dprice]

Those cleaned up real nice. Keep up the good work!

[srm51555]

Those cleaned up real nice. Keep up the good work!

+1

[ARMED]

almost done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:applaud:
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[ARMED]

i ended up painting the grills flat dark brown...

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[ARMED]

im still missing one thing...still working on it...:applaud::D

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[ARMED]

those are the tapered wooden legs from LOWEs by the way 2$ :)

[1audiohack]

That's a lot of work there and they look much happier!

Barry.

[ARMED]

hey whats up barry, i got one more thing to do...maybe after this looong weekend...

[gdmoore28]

Those cabs look just great. I'm glad to see that you went with a glossy finish - much harder to get right than satin. I thought that I liked the stained front baffle better, but the black really pops and looks more professional. Great work!


GeeDeeEmm

[ARMED]

I have a set of d130f, im gonna try it when i get bored

[Horn Fanatic]

i guess i can take it off....:banghead::confused:
how about the r30 pink fiberglass insulation? will that work?

You will never find foam rubber listed for use as damping material in any legitimate book or paper written about enclosure design. All it does is take up volume, which is in stark contrast to fiber glass insulation. The fiberglass changes the air density in the enclosure. What it does is attenuate high frequencies, and reduces the velocity of sound at low frequencies depending on the density of the material. In essence, it fools the speaker into thinking it's in a larger enclosure. Have you ever opened up an acoustic suspension speaker? It is totally packed with insulation. That's how all that inarticulate mushy bass is produced. I do not recommend using excessive amounts of any type of damping material.

Another choice for damping material I use on occasion is from Bonded Logic. The material looks like chewed up denim. Not the 4" thick stuff available at Home Depot, but the one inch. You will need to contact Bonded Logic for a list of distributors.

However, there is no clear cut choice for damping material. I use different material for certain applications depending on the drivers. It also comes down to subjective listening. I tried the Bonded Logic in enclosures I built for the 604, and the material sucked the life out of the cone. And that was after I removed most of the material. In the boxes I build using the 604 I use 1" thick duct board on all surfaces save for the baffle, of course.

BTW - Nice job on the restor project. I have a pair of the larger Barzilay that were originally loaded with 604-E's.

[ARMED]

newbie mistake! ill change it...thanks for the tip!
plus im thinking about recapping my crossover...
i still dont know if i should do it myself...

anyone here wanna help me out??

ive been reading about it...i can probably build it myself...(ghetto style)
i just need the parts list.. :confused:
i know schematics are out there (n2400 revealed) been reading that..
do i just go to partsexpress and tell them all that parts? from the schematics?

can anyone actually fill their cart with all the stuff i need from partsexpress and take a picture
that way i know what to get?...please...
or can anyone recap my crossover for me please

[ARMED]

bored at work, I could not find the right font... I could've fixed the A and G...eh ill leave it the way it is
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[ARMED]

haha! its about 2 inches tall, the original ones are 1.5... i just have to clean them up! Made out of copper

[louped garouv]

attractive, if not original, badges you made there...

:)

[ARMED]

its going to the barzilay box...just a little something to show that its JBL!

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[srm51555]

Those Look great, are you going to put a clear coat over them so they don't oxidize?

[Joseph Smith Jr]

newbie mistake! ill change it...thanks for the tip!
I am sorry that you pulled it back out, the bed topper was perfectly fine and suitable for this build
The dampening in your cabs is not doing the same thing as it does in an old air suspension or transmission line design
It's to help reduce first reflections and prevent the box from being too shouty, or boxy sounding, not so much for tuning
Should have trusted your instincts
Nice speakers, nice job

Joe

[Joseph Smith Jr]

That's how all that inarticulate mushy bass is produced. I do not recommend using excessive amounts of any type of damping material.
That's some indictment there good buddy
You have a unique take on air suspension designs
Yeah, no transient response issues with deep bass from any reflex boxes
They're a perfect solution

Joe

[ARMED]

thanks guys! i actually havent done anything with insulation/foam.. i guess im being lazy... instead i replaced it with 2 2226h... for 80$ so i had to do it..:bouncy:.. still looking for d130s though

[badman]

Really nice work. An alternative to fiberglass is "Ultratouch" recycled denim insulation, very effective and less itchy. Great finish quality from a spraycan, nicely done!

[ARMED]

When boredom strikes

[ARMED]

Safe weekend!

[gdmoore28]

Love those copper emblems you are producing. Who cares if they are not original JBL? They look great!

GeeDeeEmm

[boputnam]

Any thoughts from the audience on this idea?

Split the cabinet into two chambers. The front half includes the D131 in a sealed enclosure. The rear half gets a subwoofer driver and obviously becomes a subwoofer. Add a plate amp to each cabinet for subwoofer power.

I think it is a great idea...since it is mine.Uh, :no: no. Bad idea. See the following...


I wouldn't decrease the enclosure volume for the woofer. If anything it needs more. ;)


Closed cell foam wont help at all inside. :banghead: Reticulated foam is better but nothing beats glass fiber. :hurray: :banana:

If you can't breath through it or water won't pour straight through it keep looking. :smthsail:

[ARMED]

Got it BO! Thanks!
Still learning here.. New guy...

[gdmoore28]

"When boredom strikes . . . . "

When it strikes me, I make a list of all the chores that I should be doing instead. Cures boredom quickly, and nothing gets done!

GeeDeeEmm

[ARMED]

"When boredom strikes . . . . "

When it strikes me, I make a list of all the chores that I should be doing instead. Cures boredom quickly, and nothing gets done!

GeeDeeEmmthat reminds me, I have to clean my garage this weekend :banghead:

[ARMED]

so I decided to recap my crossovers N2400...I replaced the capacitors and coils...
night and day difference...I guess my caps are old... the mids and highs are a loooot cleaner..and detailed...:D, I could tell the difference right away from the 075 tweeter...:applaud:
thanks for Baron030 and his thread "N2400 revealed"....costs me about 40$ in materials...

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[ARMED]

done!
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[1audiohack]

Sweet!!!

Barry.

[SEAWOLF97]

work looks good.

one thing tho, electrical tape on connections. it will eventually dry & harden
and fall off ..leaving bare wires to do their mischief.

suggest more permanent wire insulation unless you want to renew that tape periodically.

[ARMED]

ugh...I guess ill wait when that time comes...its just to hide my heinous soldering job...my ghetto work LOL

[bean_counter]

Nice job!

I have a set of Acousticraft furniture; 5' console +two 4.5cuft speaker cabinets. Came with LE 14c's mounted on a sub panel. I pulled them and the panel, and there was a nice 15" hole with mounting holes drilled.

I put in 136a's and put 2420's on tractrix "salad bowls" stained to match sitting on top. Great sound, great WAF. Added 076's later. Xover is a 3131a (mod for the 076) . A pseudo L300 with a better sounding horn (IMHO)

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l623/bean_counter/Speaker%20Front.jpg

Ported on the bottom, xover bolted on the back

[ARMED]

nice furniture there bean_counter:D...we've got the furniture speakers!!
i finally got the emblem mounted, just used the plastic glue thingy, the melted stick thingy
i didnt do anything with it, ill just let it stay there and get old and dark...



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[brabus420]

Nice restore! I actually have the same barzilay cabinets but have a pair of Altec 604E's in there (originally there were a pair of 605a's). There is actually one on ebay for sale right now. I have some cracks in my grill and saw you had repaired them on yours. What did you do to fix them if you dont mind me asking. Thanks