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Guido
11-29-2004, 12:54 PM
I found 2 NOS 2203 recone kits. As I know I can put them into K120, E120, 2202, 2204, 124 and of course 2203 baskets. I'll look for them. Are there any other baskets that fit?

I want to use them in Subs together with my 4313B DIYs. What do you think?

Regarding the dimensioning of the subs I found two interesting posts from Giskard:

1)
The 2204 can be reconed as a 124/2203 but i'm not sure about the 2206. The 124/2203 works great in a 2.5 - 3.0 cubic foot enclosure tuned to 30 - 32 Hz. In a 2.0 cubic foot enclosure tune to 26 Hz or 40 Hz and see which you prefer. The old JBL tuning frequency for this transducer was 26 Hz but in practice that was usually way too low. The Qts is extremely low at 0.14 (which hints at it's extremely powerful motor).

The old JBL enclosure chart had the following two recommendations for the 124/2203:

1.6 to 2.0 cubic feet with a 3" (7 sq in) port having a 8" duct
2.1 to 3.0 cubic feet with a 3" (7 sq in) port having a 5" duct

In both cases the Fb was ~ 32 Hz which wasn't in agreement with the user's guide which was, as previously stated, 26 Hz.

2)
I've built a significant number of 124/2203-based subs and the best combo I have found is 2.8 cubic feet tuned to 30 Hz.


Is there a need for active Bass EQ as lot of the subbass modules provide?

Any recomendations for using them together in on cabinet?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

4313B
11-29-2004, 01:31 PM
"I want to use them in Subs together with my 4313B DIYs. What do you think?"

Been there, done that, good idea.
2.8 cubic feet tuned to 30 Hz.

"Is there a need for active Bass EQ as lot of the subbass modules provide?"

Absolutely not. The response is rock solid down to ~ 30 Hz. A high pass filter set in the 20 to 30 Hz range will protect the transducer below resonance thereby increasing mechanical power handling.

"Any recomendations for using them together in on cabinet?"

I would keep them in separate sub enclosures within the main enclosure with their centerlines as close together as possible and probably angle them out like many center channel loudspeakers are arranged. Running them that way in parallel will increase their maximum SPL by ~ 6 dB.

"I found 2 NOS 2203 recone kits. As I know I can put them into K120, E120, 2202, 2204, 124 and of course 2203 baskets. I'll look for them. Are there any other baskets that fit?"

I'd personally use 2202H or 2204H baskets. Long ago, in another time, it was easy to get 124H's and 2203H's but then the gravy train dried up. Back in the late 80's JBL notified me that they had a large number of 121H baskets available for $20 a pop. I bought a significant number of them, reconed them as 2203H's and used them in custom sound systems driven by Adcom GFA amplifiers. I sold my very last pair a few years ago. :( I can't imagine what I must have been thinking at the time, except that maybe having a dozen different subs sitting around doing nothing was somehow a bad thing.

Guido
11-29-2004, 01:43 PM
Absolutely not. The response is rock solid down to ~ 30 Hz. A high pass filter set in the 20 to 30 Hz range will protect the transducer below resonance thereby increasing mechanical power handling.
.........
Running them that way in parallel will increase their maximum SPL by ~ 6 dB.Sounds like a killer system :coolness:

Guido
11-29-2004, 02:56 PM
Red = 2,8 qu ft, tuned to 30Hz
Green = 1,8 qu ft tuned to 31 Hz (3" port, 7" duct)
Yellow = 1,8 qu ft tuned to 31 Hz (3" port, 7" duct) with Submodule Bass EQ

Hhhmmm:hmm:

4313B
11-29-2004, 03:41 PM
Don't forget your low pass filters when looking at subs.

If you are looking for more extension (and poorer transient response, power handling, and group delay) then use a 6th order alignment.
Use your 5234A set to bump at 20 Hz and tune your enclosure to 20 Hz.

Red = 2.8 cubic feet tuned to 30 Hz with 2nd order Butterworth low pass at 80 Hz.
Grn = 2.0 cubic feet tuned to 20 Hz with 2nd order Butterworth low pass at 80 Hz and 2nd order high pass at 20 Hz (Q=2).

Guido
11-29-2004, 04:17 PM
Clear Giskard,

thanks for help.

I do not necessarily look for more extension but need amps anyway and thought with the bass EQ of those sub modules I can keep the cabinets smaller.
They should somehow "fit" to the 4313.

4313B
11-29-2004, 04:25 PM
Can you provide a technical link to the sub modules? I'd like to see how they can be manipulated.

Thanks. :)

Guido
11-29-2004, 04:49 PM
This is on alternative
http://www.monacor.de/en/produktseite_suche.php?artid=4440&spr=EN&typ=full
Maybe one is enough for two 2203 in parallel ??

This is another, better one:
http://www.hypex.nl (http://www.hypex.nl/) > Products > Subwoofer Amps > HS200

or 2 of those little wonders http://www.hypex.nl (http://www.hypex.nl/) > Products > Subwoofer Amps > DS1.2
The response measurement of the DS1.2 can be seen here
http://www.visaton-bausaetze.de/hifi/verst100.htm#ds12

Ralf
11-29-2004, 06:47 PM
Don't forget your low pass filters when looking at subs.
Hi Giskard,

how can I setup the filter parameters in BBP?

I`ve tomatos on my eyes....:confused:

Guido
12-03-2004, 04:45 PM
I found 2 Fender 92577H Baskets. They take the E120 kits according to the transducer parts list.

If I remeber right these damned E120s have a thicker magnet than the 2202, 2203, 2204 baskets. Right?

So I shouldn't use those for my 2203 cone kits?

Guido
03-29-2005, 03:44 AM
Hi Giskard!

I need to bring this up again as the 2202 baskets are finally located :)
Sub module is already here http://www.monacor.de/en/produktseite_suche.php?artid=4440&spr=EN&typ=full

Could you post a screenshot how to setup the filter parameters in BBP?

I want to experiment a bit before I start to cut wood. I think more in the 6th order alignment direction as a 2x3 quft sub is too big.

4313B
03-29-2005, 07:31 AM
Hi Guido! :)


Could you post a screenshot how to setup the filter parameters in BBP?I run the active filters through pspice to get their voltage drive and then convert them to .iad files for bb6p to read. You have to put a specific header in the file so an example file is attached for you to look at.

Here's a 6th order assisted alignment for a 2203H - 1.6 cu ft tuned to 26 Hz with 126 Hz low pass filter and 26 Hz high pass bump filter.

4313B
03-29-2005, 07:39 AM
Another example:

Dual 2203H in 3.2 cu ft tuned to 26 Hz with JBL BX63.

4313B
03-29-2005, 07:48 AM
Guido - I might run dual drivers in a single volume in this particular instance in order to get the correct port/duct fitted. Separating the volumes could make tuning tough because the volumes are so small.

Zilch
03-29-2005, 11:09 AM
Is the Citation 5.4 a good model for 124/2203? Do we know the box size and port dimensions?

[Zilchster ALSO forgets what driver was in those 12" subs.... :o: ]

4313B
03-29-2005, 11:40 AM
Yes

~ 3 cu ft tuned to ~ 30 Hz

LE120HS

Guido
03-29-2005, 01:24 PM
Another example:

Dual 2203H in 3.2 cu ft tuned to 26 Hz with JBL BX63.

This looks damned wallshaking :D

Thanks for the excellent support with this!

Guido
04-07-2005, 01:30 PM
OK, I put them into 3.2 quft with bass bump at 30Hz as my sub module can't lower.

I get a strange problem with cone displacement between 30 and 50 Hz.
What to do ?

4313B
04-07-2005, 01:55 PM
Tuned to 30 Hz with bump filter centered at 30 Hz try something like a 4 dB bump instead of a 6 dB bump.

Have you built anything yet and listened to it or are you still planning?

Guido
04-07-2005, 02:25 PM
I'm still waiting for the 2202 baskets, so currently I'm just planning.

Guido
04-07-2005, 04:10 PM
OK, I can't get this into BB6 :banghead:

My Sub Module has a subsonic filter with 24dB/oct at 20Hz means -3dB at 20 Hz, right?
Further I have a parametric EQ variable between 30 and 50Hz, Q~1,2 and bass boost 0 to +6dB
Lowpass Filter is 50 to 150Hz, 18dB/oct

Any help appreciated.

4313B
04-07-2005, 04:21 PM
The "easiest" thing is to plug the whole schematic into pspice.

Where's the schematic and I'll try to do it for you.

Guido
04-08-2005, 04:16 AM
Thanks for that offer Giskard. Prob is that I do not have the filter schematic :biting:

This is driving me mad.

4313B
04-08-2005, 08:52 AM
Send them an email and see if you can get a service manual from them.

4313B
04-08-2005, 02:22 PM
Ok, let's see what happens here.

Dual 2203H
Vb = 3.2 cu ft
Fb = 30 Hz
80 Hz 18 dB/octave low pass
30 Hz 12 dB/octave bump filter with variable Q

Red = Q of 0.96 (+1 dB)
Grn = Q of 1.13 (+2 dB)
Blu = Q of 1.30 (+3 dB)
Mag = Q of 1.49 (+4 dB)

I suppose I wouldn't go higher than Q of 1.5 I guess.
Q of 1.49 just starts to push past xMax.
Q of 1.49 reduces max electrical input from 200W to ~ 185W
You're above 116 dB with 185W in.

Build it, see if it works, see if it blows up. If it does, don't send us the bill. :p

Guido
04-08-2005, 02:50 PM
I knew it... with 2203s you can't resist ;)

Looks very very good. This will get SOMETHING with the biased 4313 clones :coolness:

4313B
04-08-2005, 03:02 PM
Yeah, it's a potent little sub considering it's size. Similar in size, VLF response and total air movement to a single Citation 7.4 but with ~ 4 dB more efficiency and ~ 50W greater power handling ability.

I might be inclined to make the baffle kind of a V shape to fire each 2203H into the room at a slight angle. I don't know, something like 5 or 10 degrees maybe.

Guido
04-30-2005, 03:19 AM
Here they are :D

They look pretty dangerous ;)

Today I start cabinet building.

4313B
04-30-2005, 04:07 AM
They look pretty dangerous ;):rotfl:

Those look like pretty good recone jobs dude! :) Better than factory!

Guido
05-10-2005, 03:53 PM
Today I sprayed the primer :)

I'll have to do it more precise this time as I want to spray the sub in glossy black. Well not piano finish but I'll try my best :p

Guido
05-14-2005, 07:07 AM
No Idea how they sound as they are not finished. Just wanted to share this :coolness:

Earl K
05-14-2005, 07:15 AM
Nice :D

( But I have to imagine you'll be wanting a mate to that soon enough - ya know - just to utilyze those unused watts sitting inside the amplifier :) )

:cheers:

Zilch
05-14-2005, 12:52 PM
No Idea how they sound as they are not finished. YEAH, like we BELIEVE that for even a minute.... :D

4313B
05-14-2005, 12:55 PM
It looks like it's hanging off a cow.

LE15-Thumper
05-14-2005, 01:07 PM
It looks like it's hanging off a cow.

Who's that naked person in the reflection ? ;)

Guido
05-14-2005, 01:16 PM
It looks like it's hanging off a cow.

Forget the cow ;)

Guido
05-19-2005, 03:53 PM
This little beast extends the response of my 4313Bs easily down to 25 Hz.

YEAH BABY

This bass makes your stomach :barf:

4313B
05-19-2005, 03:55 PM
You mean I wasn't lying!?

Guido
05-19-2005, 04:03 PM
You mean I wasn't lying!?

:hmm:


Yeah, it's a potent little sub considering it's size

You didn't tell the truth! ;)
This is helluva Sub!!! OK, it will never beat a 2242 design or Ralfs 10 quft 2245 monsters.

Especially in combination with the 4313B...HHHmmmm...I would say it is made for them.
I have to do more listening but this 2203 really have "something"

4313B
05-19-2005, 07:46 PM
"OK, it will never beat a 2242 design or Ralfs 10 quft 2245 monsters."

Yeah but look what it's doing in such a small package. :)

Cool eh?

I'm glad it worked out for you and your 4313B's.

johnaec
05-19-2005, 08:26 PM
Guido - how are you crossing those over, to bring down the LF output of the 4313's??

John

Guido
05-20-2005, 01:29 AM
Guido - how are you crossing those over, to bring down the LF output of the 4313's??John

Hi John,

at the moment I drive the 4313 fullrange. The Sub crossover should be something around 60 Hz. I think it fits well (see the response). I do not say some more tweaking would be good but the sound is amazing. I do have bass down to 20 Hz. UNBELIEVABLE!

johnaec
05-20-2005, 07:19 AM
at the moment I drive the 4313 fullrange. The Sub crossover should be something around 60 Hz.I'm a lttle confused here. Your graph shows the summed output going *down* from the plain 4313 between 50 - 200hz. If there's no high-pass filter on the 4313, why does the summed output go down - the output should be additive, unless polarity is reversed on the sub. However, below 50hz it looks right. What accounts for the drop in summed output between 50 - 200hz?

John

Guido
05-21-2005, 02:35 AM
I'm a lttle confused here. Your graph shows the summed output going *down* from the plain 4313 between 50 - 200hz. If there's no high-pass filter on the 4313, why does the summed output go down - the output should be additive, unless polarity is reversed on the sub. However, below 50hz it looks right. What accounts for the drop in summed output between 50 - 200hz?

John

Dunno John. Need to check this.
As said some more tweaking is on the way ;)

Guido
02-06-2006, 04:39 AM
Continued here

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8619&highlight=years+eve

The thread was hijacked ;)

4313B
02-06-2006, 06:06 AM
The thread was hijacked ;)I hate when that happens! :p

bldozier
10-09-2017, 10:42 AM
Another example:

Dual 2203H in 3.2 cu ft tuned to 26 Hz with JBL BX63.


any ports in this setup, 3.2 cu ft is that the size of a 4315?