JBL woofer clicking noise help

[DanMan]

I was pretty excited to find a youtube video that plays descending frequencies (all the way down to 1 hz!) I was more amazed that my L100T woofers visually moved all the way down to 1hertz!

But alas, one woofer makes a (strange?) clicking noise between 16hz-12hz. From manual manipulation there doesn't appear to be misalignment, but I don't move them like electricity does.

I unmounted the woofer and was horrified by how very small, yet very pregnant, the spider (actual living spider) was traversing the cone! Otherwise, the actual spider seemed in proper order, no wires were in the woofer's way, the surround is intact but only has maybe a year left before crumbling sets in.

So questions:

1) what is making the clicking noise?
2) given that as (thankfully y'all have pointed out in the past) the surround is glued onto the wrong side of the cone, I have no place in Austin that can resurround or recone (and y'all may remember I'm quite bad at preforming that operation). I have quite a few pairs of other woofers needing those same services. Pleased if y'all can recommend any praised/competent speaker shops in Texas or in the continental US where I can take/ship woofers to have them serviced?

Thanks! Dan.

Here's the video of the woofer noise (taken with my old phone so the quality is rather bad - but the noise is evident between 16-12 hertz)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AndRjsMy8eg

[rdgrimes]

clicking noise between 16hz-12hz
You're lucky you still have cones in those woofers at all. Those speakers are designed to run with a 40Hz roll-off. Forcing input below that at high levels can be deadly. Besides which all you will hear is port noise. The clicking noise is likely the VC bottoming out, or a tear in the surround or spider.

[DanMan]

Sure but they are nowhere near excursion limits; I just do low level tests. Most speakers are rolled off above 20hz or so, but it doesn't mean they won't move it. It's like running your car engine at redline, no issues except over the long haul.

Check out these yahoo's running their speakers at 1 hertz; at the high levels here, you're bound to break more than your speakers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VK4IAAFrPo

But I'd like to send them off for recone/resurround if anyone can please make some recommendations??

[CHagen7]

Hi Danman, that could be like touching of the voice coil, or a slight voice coil tinsel lead tick, but it sounds more like the woofer spider is not glued down all the way around its edge. You should be able to find the area with the speaker out of the cabinet, and then glue it back down with a metal-adhering CA (super glue). Lay the glue under the spider then around and over the edge, like the rest of the spider edge.

I hope this helps.

[DanMan]

I also figured it's gotta be the spider hitting against the basket, but it's really well glued around the entire perimeter from inner edge to outer edge.

It seems odd to me that I'm able to reproduce the click by manually moving the speaker ... but that it clicks at completely randomly times ... I.E. sometimes I have to push it hard to click, other times my finger just barely makes first contact with the cone and it will click, and pretty loudly.

I've never had a wire come off the voice coil so I'm in new territory.

There is a tiny lead poking outside the cone (pic below), I've moved it away from all other surfaces so it doesn't appear related?? And the clicking noise is hearty enough that it sounds more like the strength of a voice coil wire. Dang. Is it off to the repair shop and which one?

71073

[gasfan]

I also figured it's gotta be the spider hitting against the basket, but it's really well glued around the entire perimeter from inner edge to outer edge.

It seems odd to me that I'm able to reproduce the click by manually moving the speaker ... but that it clicks at completely randomly times ... I.E. sometimes I have to push it hard to click, other times my finger just barely makes first contact with the cone and it will click, and pretty loudly.

I've never had a wire come off the voice coil so I'm in new territory.

There is a tiny lead poking outside the cone (pic below), I've moved it away from all other surfaces so it doesn't appear related?? And the clicking noise is hearty enough that it sounds more like the strength of a voice coil wire. Dang. Is it off to the repair shop and which one?

71073

If you put your finger on the dust cap during those frequencies, can you make it stop? If so, the vc is likely not quite centered enough and it's slapping against the pole piece and magnet. Those gaps are very tight.

[DanMan]

I wish I could stop it! :)

The vc seems extremely well centered (which is why I don't work on speakers - I lack the ability to center circles) :confused:

[gasfan]

I wish I could stop it! :)

The vc seems extremely well centered (which is why I don't work on speakers - I lack the ability to center circles) :confused:

How do you know it's well centered? Have you tried gently placing your finger on the cap and pressing in an attempt to stop it? Sorry, it's just that your response leaves me guessing.

It's possible the vc has a warp from being over driven yet still fully intact electrically. In which case re-centering it while refoaming can cure it.

[DanMan]

Sorry, yes I pressed gently (while driver was playing) both directly on the center of the cone and on all sides (and even tried holding down the spider), and the clicking doesn't go away.

I feel it's well centered because I can press medium/hard while the driver isn't playing on all sides (quadrants) of the cone and it never bottoms out nor has any vc rub in any direction.

[mech986]

I would suggest reinstalling the 2214H woofers back in the cabinet and running normal music and program material through them, up to and including playing at levels that are as loud as you can stand. IF you don't get the same audible clicks or problems, leave them alone. The woofers run in a restricted and filtered frequency range based on the crossover and cabinet tuning, plus electromechanical parameters of the woofer. They are not meant to run below 20hz, and certainly not unloaded.

Unless you continue to get clicking or other rub or voice coil noises, I'd leave them alone until they actually fail or have audible problems with music. Otherwise, send them to Upland Loudspeaker to get an evaluation and possible options for repair.

[DanMan]

Yep that's sound advice mech986 and thanks everyone for their input.

The fact is, I'd have never known about it, save for the 16hz-12hz test; and I don't play any tunes in that range on this set. Plus they have a sub to back them up, so when they go loud I reroute lots of that energy to the sub.

The surrounds have about a year to go before needing servicing so may as well get their full service life. I'll check out edgewound's shop, thanks a million!

[Radley]

You can check a woofer by gently placing your fingers around the cone and gently push down and back up. If there's any rubbing then you know it's on the way out.

I seriously doubt that anything from a computer A/D or D/A and YouTube will get anywhere near 16Hz let alone 1 Hz.

7Hz is where earthquakes start. We were testing a large stadium loudspeaker once and fed the woofers an 8Hz tone. The engineer with me wanted to see if any of the cones were rubbing. I told him to knock it off as I looked across the street and saw the windows of a dry cleaners' were flexing in and out. It looked like Gumby dancing. By the way, the 8Hz tone was inaudible.

[DanMan]

I too had serious reservations about commercial grade or even youtube playing anything outside 20hz-20khz as those are the limits we've always read about.

But upon pondering 'why not', there are no obstacles.

And the proof is there. The speaker moves according to the frequency shown on the youtube video. Sure the quality of the signal is degraded or denigrated but the signal is what it is.

The 2214 held up on other youtube videos playing all the way down to 1 hertz. The speaker was moving in&out 1 time per second. That would have to be proof enough? Or is something more required?

Your hearing is probably better than mine .... mine cut out at 13 hz. The speaker moved all the way down to once per second but I couldn't hear nor feel it.

The 2214 is the only driver I was willing to subject to this rigorous if not insane test.

[Joseph Smith Jr]

The JBL published Dynamic Test for the 2214H is as follows:
Sweep Frequency 20-Hz - 1200Hz @ 6 Volts

DC Resistance is 5.1 - 6.3 for a healthy coil

http://www.diyaudio.rs/JBL/JBL%20-%20Cone%20Transducer%20Test%20Specifications%20(Lo w-Frequency)%20(1988).pdf

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/L100t%20ts.pdf

That driver wasn't meant to operate in that range your pushing it to in a box, free air not even up for consideration, period, and as for steady state? Nuts

Why are you concerned about behavior exhibited by a driver that you are deliberately abusing? You know that what you're doing isn't doing it any favors

I do agree it does sound like a loose glue joint but so what if it performs as designed within it's legitimate intended design parameters

Not a good idea in my opinion, to deliberately torture transducers for what reason only God and the Man in the Moon know and one of the reasons I have some concern with those test tone discs some vendors provide with their cone repair kits, it's only asking for trouble in the wrong hands, ask me how I know

How's the driver behave when tested within the intended design limits? If it's fine, then put it back in the box and quite looking for a problem that's not there and just something else you can worry about, that's also not there

I promise you I could eventually get a new driver of any make fresh out of the box to exhibit weird noises and behaviors if I deliberately abused and pushed it well beyond it's design limits, without exception, never mind a 30 or 40 year old transducer and most definitely if I did so with little to no mechanical loading, like folks do with those test tone discs during a re-foam job

Best of luck
Joe

[DanMan]

My Maserati does 185,
I lost my license now I don't drive.

I have a limo ride in the back,
I lock the doors in case I'm attacked.

[cooky1257]

Doing a free air VLF sweep on my ME150 woofers produced a clicking sound at and below 7hz. I think Pos had a similar experience. The woofers perform superbly when used as intended.

[martin2395]

It's been told before not to push those woofers, really avoid anything below 20-25Hz. It can be the VC wire or the woofer is bottoming out.

[Voice]

One of my 2225h just had issues with clicking noise. I removed the cone and there seems to be some kind of washer loose on the airgap. I think its part of the motor, but has come loose during time. Not sure if its possible to fix or not. If anyone has info of the 2225 structure im all ears.

[macaroonie]

That's most likely the mass ring Which has probably parted company with the cone
. You now have a 2234 😁

[Voice]

Mass-ring cant fit trough the airgap and 2225 dont even have the ring.

[macaroonie]

My bad. Misread 2225 on my phone.

[Voice]

No worries! I have spare woofers, but still intrested of figuring this out.

[Robh3606]

I had a 2225 re-coned as a 2235 over time something came loose in the motor structure. Don't know if it's part of a toasted VC or what else it could be. Can't imagine the flux stabilization ring coming loose but who knows. Sucks have a fresh re-cone on a "bad" frame!

Rob :)

[Earl K]

One of my 2225h just had issues with clicking noise. I removed the cone and there seems to be some kind of washer loose on the airgap. I think its part of the motor, but has come loose during time. Not sure if its possible to fix or not. If anyone has info of the 2225 structure im all ears.


I'll guess that the 2225's flux-stabilizing ring has come loose inside the "well" ( down below the ) voice-coil gap ( circling the pole-piece ).

The thread ( behind the following pic ) shows the best save ( to-date ) of a magnetic structure ( that I'm aware of ).

http://static.jbl.com/tl_files/themes/shop/skins/jblshop/02/stylesheet/series/about/m710066_JBL_TimeMachine__0019_1979_Large.jpg (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?38100-Loose-back-plate-and-pole-piece)

If I'm right ( & the ring is a sngle piece ) you might be able to maneuver it back into it's slot beside the pole-piece and then apply some glue/goop ( all through the tiny VC gap ) to keep it in place ( home repairs are always worth a shot IMO ).

:)

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=71180&stc=1&d=1462057722

[Voice]

Thank you Earl K:applaud:

I was looking for an explanation and now i got it. Ring is one piece for sure, you got that right. On your picture the ring is sitting on the bottom so i guess thats the place where it should be glued.

I wouldnt be suprised if theres something wrong with the cone or vc. Have to take a closer look.