How many here own a JBL speaker less than 5 years old?

[jpw]

I notice comparatively little forum discussion about new JBL models but lots of discussion about vintage JBL models and DIY projects. While worthwhile and fun for the consumer, neither of these latter categories create much if any revenue for JBL. You can not blame JBL for laying off engineers and moving manufacturing overseas to cut costs if sales of their new product is not high enough to support research and development costs. No flames here please, this is just an economic fact.

So how many here own a JBL speaker purchased new that is less than 5 years old? What model (or models) is it?

[Wagner]

I notice comparatively little forum discussion about new JBL models but lots of discussion about vintage JBL models and DIY projects. While worthwhile and fun for the consumer, neither of these latter categories create much if any revenue for JBL. You can not blame JBL for laying off engineers and moving manufacturing overseas to cut costs if sales of their new product is not high enough to support research and development costs. No flames here please, this is just an economic fact.

So how many here own a JBL speaker purchased new that is less than 5 years old? What model (or models) is it?
Take a look at the name of this site:
Lansing H-E-R-I-T-A-G-E
As for this statement?:

While worthwhile and fun for the consumer, neither of these latter categories create much if any revenue for JBL.
And how do you know that?

I would be willing to bet (in fact, I know) that driver sales, both as an OEM/OES supplier and as a retailer to "consumers" played a very significant part in building JBL into the icon it (once was) and did so for decades. Make a trip to the Library and read up on the history of the company.

As for the profitabilty/need for continued product support? Think about all of the professional installations based on JBL product, all over the Planet and then remember that for a good long while the "consumers" got a lot, if not all, of those same drivers in their ready made, plug and play consumer "audio" systems versions....................just with different model numbers

How do you know what activities JBL conducted that were profitable and what activities weren't? Maybe it is not a matter of how "much if any" rather a matter of revenue MARGINS, as in "how much"? What is an acceptable margin (assuming it's in the black) is a matter of perspective and part of a company's mission philosophy. Just maybe that philosophy has changed? You think that MIGHT be a possibility?

Change for the sake of change isn't necessarily a good thing, long term, now is it? And that too is "just an economic fact"

As for this remark? Why can't "we"? Who would you suggest "we" blame if not "JBL" (the business/current ownership side)? And again, how do YOU know?:

You can not blame JBL for laying off engineers and moving manufacturing overseas to cut costs if sales of their new product is not high enough to support research and development costs. No flames here please, this is just an economic fact.

You cannot make a judgment call on what sales MIGHT be if a product for all practical purposes only exists in a catalog or in another market (or country)

JBL supported product for years, it very well may have been at times a break even proposition or possibly at a loss, but it's a big part of what made them a successful (and exceptional) company, and a hell of a lot more productive as far as return on investment than any marketing or advertising with regards to insuring brand loyalty, repeat sales and new customers

Amazing how fast a good reputation could spread, even without the internet

JBL product support was a Gold Standard and served their reputation and sales well, not to mention, and I am certainly sure, it didn't hurt their near omnipresent success for a few decades in the "pro" fields" either, where both excellent, reliable service is second only to performance

What is happening today is a "reinvention" of what the company and it's goals originally were and that is the only "fact": that "fact" is reflected with it's moves towards the new trends in product and marketing

It is the abandoning of one vision and the adoption of something new, reacting to the loss of the once ubiquitous "stereo store", in practically every town of any size in America giving way to the rise of the mail order economy: small compact product, all built to price points and intended for a very finite service life............in other words, the world of use it until you use it up and throw it away AND possessing an ENORMOUS profit MARGIN

99.9% of all the L100s, L96s, L112s etc were all purchased from brick and mortar outlets...............well, those days are all but gone, I understand that.............but I also understand that there is a void that could have been filled. That is (one big) reason why Japan is still getting the lion's share of the good stuff

I make one concession: it IS difficult to sell, on an industrial scale, profitably, loudspeaker systems like the L112 (a size and weight example) if you have to do so via the new world order's e-commerce outlets

That's the one modicum of a "break" I have to give "them": who's going to sell the goods? More importantly, where and how?
The "Circuit City"s of the world are dying out/have died like flies

Things change, I recognize that; JBL's current state is hardly unique..........but there is also a famous line/truth: "you don't know what you've got until you lose it" (OR, piss it away)
This can easily apply (should be considered) by an idiot CEO or owner as well

It's reactionary versus proactive and it is sad

But I maintain that JBL could STILL BE THE LEADER and remain extant as a company more like what made them great in the first place, if led by someone or someones with a little vision and the ability to adjust to the changes in the ways in which goods are sold and delivered (another story and a matter more of conditioning the buying public to happily accept mediocrity than anything else), a forest instead of a trees person, IF profit MARGINS wasn't the primary concern as it obviously is today.

They could also remain a company built on integrity and quality and not forgetting those who brought them to the dance in the first place with a reexamination of their values. But hey, it is an iPod world after all!

What remains to be seen will be the outcome of this in 5 or 10 years (and then you can meaningfully compare how well they service and take care of you with regards to the products you are asking about now: come back here and tell any of us still alive how great it all went)

The product that the majority can afford. The L20T owners of the world. It's not trust worthy on any level. It's an insult...........goin' out to Costco and get me some of them JBLs................it's a sad day

And the "high end" stuff? The designs that actually share the lineage? Well, just look at how they deal with that, parsing it out (building reluctantly) to the Japanese market, the models still around but that MOST people cannot afford.................marketing, with some implication of nonexistent "trickle down" to the black chinese crap wearing a cheap JBL badge at Best Buy.............the stuff you can't service even if you wanted to..........and now, they send the guy's who built those masterpieces to the unemployment line

So, what's that tell you about their future intent?

That's why I don't care about or discuss most of the current "product", note "most".

I should have asked you what price point/range/product line, specifically, you had in mind, because today there is basically (2 and 1/2) as far as I can tell

You can delete one of these: you'd didn't need to post this twice

Thomas

[Ed Zeppeli]

I have some LSR305s recently purchased.

[johnlcnm]

Own JBL LSR6332s bought a year and a half ago. My reference standards. IMO these are very accurate reproducers. They don't seem to get much love by the sound system folks. Although I think they are the evolution of the L100, IMO again. People looking for a really good video monitor should take a listen. In my room they are fairly flat to 25 Hz. That is by measurement. For the price they are a steal. Especially when you consider the LSR32s can be had used for $600 or $700 a pair. No need for a center channel with these guys.

Regards,

John

[JeffW]

Wagner touches on a point that's bothered me for some time - JBL didn't sell many of their products in the US until quite recently, and I think even now some are still not offered here. Why they thought it was a good idea to exclude a market the size of the US confounds me, but then I don't make $20 million a year.

That said, I own a couple of different current (or were current within 5 years) offerings.

[Challenger604]

Take a look at the name of this site:
Lansing H-E-R-I-T-A-G-E
As for this statement?:

And how do you know that?

I would be willing to bet (in fact, I know) that driver sales, both as an OEM/OES supplier and as a retailer to "consumers" played a very significant part in building JBL into the icon it (once was) and did so for decades. Make a trip to the Library and read up on the history of the company.

As for the profitabilty/need for continued product support? Think about all of the professional installations based on JBL product, all over the Planet and then remember that for a good long while the "consumers" got a lot, if not all, of those same drivers in their ready made, plug and play consumer "audio" systems versions....................just with different model numbers

How do you know what activities JBL conducted that were profitable and what activities weren't? Maybe it is not a matter of how "much if any" rather a matter of revenue MARGINS, as in "how much"? What is an acceptable margin (assuming it's in the black) is a matter of perspective and part of a company's mission philosophy. Just maybe that philosophy has changed? You think that MIGHT be a possibility?

Change for the sake of change isn't necessarily a good thing, long term, now is it? And that too is "just an economic fact"

As for this remark? Why can't "we"? Who would you suggest "we" blame if not "JBL" (the business/current ownership side)? And again, how do YOU know?:


You cannot make a judgment call on what sales MIGHT be if a product for all practical purposes only exists in a catalog or in another market (or country)

JBL supported product for years, it very well may have been at times a break even proposition or even at a loss, but it's a big part of what made them a successful (and exceptional) company, and a hell of a lot more productive as far as return on investment than any marketing or advertising with regards to insuring brand loyalty, repeat sales and new customers

JBL product support was a Gold Standard and served their reputation and sales well, not to mention, and I am certainly sure, it didn't hurt their near omnipresent success for a few decades in the "pro" fields" either, where both excellent, reliable service is second only to performance

What is happening today is a "reinvention" of what the company and it's goals originally were and that is the only "fact": that "fact" is reflected with it's moves towards the new trends in product and marketing

It is the abandoning of one vision and the adoption of something new

Things change, I recognize that; JBL's current state is hardly unique..........but there is also a famous line/truth: "you don't know what you've got until you lose it" (OR, piss it away)
This can easily apply (should be considered) by an idiot CEO or owner as well

What remains to be seen will be the outcome of this in 5 or 10 years (and then you can meaningfully compare how well they service and take care of you with regards to the products you are asking about now: come back here and tell any of us still alive how great it all went)

You can delete one of these: you'd din't need to post this twice

Thomas

Totally agree!

[bubbleboy76]

I have 4365, 4429 and LSR305, all under 5 years of age.

[christo]

I have a set of K2 s9900 and a pair of 1500 Array.

[jpw]

Wagner and Challenger604. Neither of you answered the simple question in the post. Have you purchased a JBL speaker new within the last 5 years and what model (or models) is it?

Regarding your reply and agreement respectively, Heritage website name notwithstanding, a lot of griping is done here about what JBL is or isn't doing TODAY.

I know from 40 plus years of involvement in audio as a dealer, having regular contact with both customers and vendors, that consumer (non pro) part sales are today a tiny fraction of sales compared to completed speaker packages. Like it or not consumer speaker companies can not survive if people don't buy their latest efforts.

It's true that JBL has made a lot of marketing mistakes including not offering their better product in the US until more recently, but many better models have now been available here for well over five years. Regarding price, comparing street price then (fair trade and no internet), for street price now (internet and sold much nearer dealer cost), and adjusted X4 for inflation from the 1970's, many of JBL's speakers today are no more unreachable for the average guy now than they were then. MSRP on the L-100 was $273 each vs $1000 each for 4312E (today's pro version equivalent) and available for closer to $750 each.

So enjoy your vintage JBL speakers as I have, and build your DIY JBL speakers as I have. Just don't be so shocked when the resources for JBL to continue to build new products, or support old ones, dries up.

[Mctwins]

Hallo!

I had 4319 and replaced it with 4429. I also have 4365. Bought all new!

[timc]

I owned a pair of LS40's for about half a year. They are nice speakers for their size and price, but after half a year i had to make room for my K2 lookalikes. 7" woofers just doesnt do it for me ;)

I also owned a pair or LSR4328 and LSR4312 subwoofer for about a year, but that was more than 5 years ago. Very nice set for its price point.

[Wagner]

"Mass market" products, what in the hell is that supposed to mean!?

I heard, and was very impressed, with a pair of the "Studio Series" when they first came out

I was very interested in what was at the time the top model, the "S412" I believe it was?

Wanted them for a sort of all in one living room system for both TeeVee sound and music

And of course it was a mail order/special order only option (I heard the pair I heard in another state)

No one within driving distance had a pair on the floor or in stock so I passed

The speaker was wonderful and cheap (price wise) although it did have too much of a plastic look for my taste

Still, I sometimes regret not grabbing a pair when they were new; worked extremely well with a tube amp

But even those don't fit the criteria of this thread :(

[hlaari]

I have a pair of 1500AL-1 woofers, but I had to buy them out of the back of a van in an alley on the lower east side.

These were the guys. Despite the disguises I'm pretty sure they were the Harman ceo and director of marketing for North America.


Oh, and some fresh 2421B diaphragms.


They came true my friend who have help me to get some of the parts and get them ready for shipping to Iceland
I hope at you enjoy them:)


Ari

[speakerdave]

It was a joke, Ari, pointing to the fact that many of us are component guys and can't buy them. I enjoy them a great deal. How would I not?--they are incredible. I pulled my post. Please pull your copy. Thanks.

[Wagner]

I have a pair of 1500AL-1 woofers, but I had to buy them out of the back of a van in an alley on the lower east side.

These were the guys. Despite the disguises I'm pretty sure they were the Harman ceo and director of marketing for North America.


Oh, and some fresh 2421B diaphragms.
Lower East, as in Tokyo right?
Apples and oranges
I never said JBL stopped knowing how to build a speaker if they wanted to

Judging by current conduct, the question should be will they be able to repeat that performance in the not so distant future? (in house)

My comments were about (not) protecting a H-E-R-I-T-A-G-E that was enjoyed by thousands for decades and at every price point and consumers STILL enjoying the same high quality of build and service even with the entry models

And of a company that knew how to at least treat it's key people with some respect
THAT is what I was referring to

Not everyone buys, or can afford, the Rolex models, not to mention the fact that that driver is close to 15 years old now, far far far from being "less than 5 years old" (thanks to the end of the glory days gang)

But like I said, let's see how things are in 5 or 10 years

[oznob]

I have a pair of Studio 590's that I think sound awesome! If I'm not mistaken, the Studio 5 speakers were the last series designed by Greg Timbers? Again, I could be wrong. They will actually rattle the walls a bit given the right amplification. Recommended power rating is 250 watts. My restored Marantz 2330 (non B) may get to around 160 watts on a good day but it drives the 590's very well! I have been toying around with getting a pair of Studio 230's for my modest living room system. Haven't pulled the trigger yet but maybe soon.

[speakerdave]

. . . . that driver is close to 15 years old now . . . .

Thomas, I wasn't responding to you, but rather to the OP. The 1500AL series has been evolving for that long, yes. My particular version has been part of current product within the last five years, although strictly speaking not a separate product itself. It fits the criteria.

I was making a joke, making light of the very notion that somehow LH denizens share some responsibility for decisions that are being made at Harman HQ. What a f--king absurdity! I don't know why anybody is taking this guy seriously.

[Wagner]

Thomas, I wasn't responding to you, but rather to the OP. The 1500AL series has been evolving for that long, yes. My particular version has been part of current product within the last five years, although strictly speaking not a separate product itself. It fits the criteria.

I was making a joke, making light of the very notion that somehow LH denizens share some responsibility for decisions that are being made at Harman HQ. What a f--king absurdity! I don't know why anybody is taking this guy seriously.
I concur
Thank you for the clarification
I was definitely taken aback!
Thank you again

Thomas

[Wagner]

Wagner and Challenger604. Neither of you answered the simple question in the post. Have you purchased a JBL speaker new within the last 5 years and what model (or models) is it?

Regarding your reply and agreement respectively, Heritage website name notwithstanding, a lot of griping is done here about what JBL is or isn't doing TODAY.

I know from 40 plus years of involvement in audio as a dealer, having regular contact with both customers and vendors, that consumer (non pro) part sales are today a tiny fraction of sales compared to completed speaker packages. Like it or not consumer speaker companies can not survive if people don't buy their latest efforts.

It's true that JBL has made a lot of marketing mistakes including not offering their better product in the US until more recently, but many better models have now been available here for well over five years. Regarding price, comparing street price then (fair trade and no internet), for street price now (internet and sold much nearer dealer cost), and adjusted X4 for inflation from the 1970's, many of JBL's speakers today are no more unreachable for the average guy now than they were then. MSRP on the L-100 was $273 each vs $1000 each for 4312E (today's pro version equivalent) and available for closer to $750 each.

So enjoy your vintage JBL speakers as I have, and build your DIY JBL speakers as I have. Just don't be so shocked when the resources for JBL to continue to build new products, or support old ones, dries up.
I answered that question and I also spent a great deal of time telling you why so save me the lecture and the adjusted for inflation calculator: you missed my points entirely as demonstrated by the ramble above

Go back and review your original 1st post; you only hit about (3) of the hottest buttons here, all in one try

Then re-read my response to your questionable "phrasing" of your remarks and maybe you won't be parroting back to me what I just finished saying

I don't understand your comprehension problem, I quoted and answered you verbatim? But hey, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and repeat myself, here you go:

You can not blame JBL for laying off engineers and moving manufacturing overseas to cut costs if sales of their new product is not high enough to support research and development costs. No flames here please, this is just an economic fact.
Read that remark aloud, slowly, and then tell me you can't understand how that just might come across to someone here? Or anywhere? Like you're going to "school" somebody on what's up?

Tell folks what they "can't" do right out of the gate and then follow it with "No flames here please, this is just an economic fact."?

Thomas

[Wagner]

Right now I am shocked, angry and also sad for those who have lost their jobs. I feel cheated of what brilliant speakers might have come our way in the future that we will now not know. How incredibly short sighted of Harman. Even if down the road they realize their error and try to re-hire, engineers like Greg and Jerry don't grow on trees. Will talented people even want to work for Harman in the future given they way they treat their employees? Right now I am waving at Harman with out all 4 of my fingers.

just 8 posts later:


After a brief pause from the shock of the news, I would also add that I do not feel these events devalue what designs JBL has done in the past or is doing now. In fact it may make the current models more valuable going forward.

It's hard to be positive right now about what remaining engineering capability JBL will have going forward. But I think it is important to remember that we do not have a complete picture on what JBL is planning or may have in the pipeline for talent. My best hope is that, like a major league baseball team selling off their aging stars (sorry Greg and Jerry), they have good prospects in their farm system somewhere for down the road. If you aren't buying this right now, I can't blame you.......

[jpw]

Wagner, I think you have had too much caffeine today...........

There is no inconsistency in being sad that Greg Timbers and Jerry Moro lost their jobs or angry in how they were unceremoniously released from Harman and also realizing that if sales aren't there then ultimately changes have to be made.

I am not suggesting it is the sole responsibility of forum members here to keep JBL afloat by buying their new product. But if the JBL faithful here in the US will not purchase their better speakers, it does not bode well for JBL going forward as they will see this as vindication for why they only offered them in Japan to begin with.

So based on that I am glad to see that many here have recently bought new JBL product.

[speakerdave]

Wagner, I think you have had too much caffeine today...........

There is no inconsistency in being sad that Greg Timbers and Jerry Moro lost their jobs or angry in how they were unceremoniously released from Harman and also realizing that if sales aren't there then ultimately changes have to be made.

I am not suggesting it is the sole responsibility of forum members here to keep JBL afloat by buying their new product. But if the JBL faithful here in the US will not purchase their better speakers, it does not bode well for JBL going forward as they will see this as vindication for why they only offered them in Japan to begin with.

So based on that I am glad to see that many here have recently bought new JBL product.

First of all why don't you try being up front about exactly what your position is in all this. Second, it is absurd to connect "JBL faithful" including LH members in any way to any supposed problem with sales. It's scapegoating pure and simple. If you feel burned by Harman's moves, find another salve. And don't bother congratulating us on our purchases. We don't want your blame, and we don't want your points.

[Ian Mackenzie]

A pair Synthesis rear surround speakers, l don't know the model.

2216 woofers.

[jpw]

I am not the one who started the flames here. I simple wanted to gauge what excitement and commitment there is for newer JBL product here along with the interest in vintage and DIY. Most, but not all, replies were on topic and civil.

[Wagner]

I am not the one who started the flames here. I simple wanted to gauge what excitement and commitment there is for newer JBL product here along with the interest in vintage and DIY. Most, but not all, replies were on topic and civil.
Oh, really?!

As for your motives, if what you say is true, all you'd have to do is point and click on any of about a thousand threads (many of them very current and right "on top") that, or do a search on any of the models you had in mind and you'd have you answers to all of that, is spades

In all likelihood a more meaningful rendering as well in light of current events

[Wagner]

First of all why don't you try being up front about exactly what your position is in all this. Second, it is absurd to connect "JBL faithful" including LH members in any way to any supposed problem with sales. It's scapegoating pure and simple. If you feel burned by Harman's moves, find another salve. And don't bother congratulating us on our purchases. We don't want your blame, and we don't want your points.
My theory is he realized he stepped on it after he plugged his (formerly) owned shop.................:

I still interact with the guys regularly to help them stay successful running what is still in many ways a 1970's style audio specialty stereo store. We also offer home theater and custom installation to stay relevant with today's mainstream customer. We try very hard to offer the best audio brands along with a better demo and personalized customer service experience while staying competitive with internet pricing. As you can imagine this is not easy but I believe walking this line is why we have managed to remain successful.

Our selection of used equipment comes from both trade-ins as well as customer consignments. Most of our used equipment is not vintage but usually 20 years old or newer.

I am told by our JBL regional sales manager that our on hand to demo JBL inventory is unsurpassed by any other dealer in the US. Currently we stock the 4312E, the Array 880 center, 1000, 1500, 1500N subwoofer, 4429 pro monitor, S3900, S4700, 4367 pro monitor and the DD-67000 Everest's.

Just a theory (and I think "interact" MAY mean "I still own an interest in the business and I collect rent and or a percentage") I think they call it "walking it back":
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3a/11/68/3a116884945f870924f1ffd3f36fc015.jpg

[badman]

Regarding price, comparing street price then (fair trade and no internet), for street price now (internet and sold much nearer dealer cost), and adjusted X4 for inflation from the 1970's, many of JBL's speakers today are no more unreachable for the average guy now than they were then.

Except that budgets are tighter now due to stagnant wages and massive inflation of housing, education, and healthcare (none of which are included in the badly-flawed "Market basket" model of inflation used for CPI)

[Ian Mackenzie]

I notice comparatively little forum discussion about new JBL models but lots of discussion about vintage JBL models and DIY projects. While worthwhile and fun for the consumer, neither of these latter categories create much if any revenue for JBL. You can not blame JBL for laying off engineers and moving manufacturing overseas to cut costs if sales of their new product is not high enough to support research and development costs. No flames here please, this is just an economic fact.

So how many here own a JBL speaker purchased new that is less than 5 years old? What model (or models) is it?

I doubt if this is a survey that it is conclusive to link a technical interest forum like this one as a gauge of consumer purchase behaviour. As to the other comments sales of the E 66000 were good so l think the resourcing changed as stated by the CEO are more to do with the global focus and reduce regional manufacturing overheads.

While l am not overly familiar with retail in the USA my impression is that over the past 5 -10 years JBL presence was more at a Walmart level much like Dick Smith and Myer in Aust.

These are the Studio Series retailers iand is a highly competitive mass market up against other brands like Boss, B&W. The other area is the Instal market where some of the monitor series, Performance series and the 9800-66000 systems are used.

Perhaps the question should have been framed how many did a HT install and used JBL?

Only two that l can think of, Ti dome and Val.

In Melboure (pop 4mil) there are probably 5 or 6 significant HIFI retailers and they all do installs. Klapp Audio, Whatmough, Carlton AV, Stereophonic, Soundair, Audio Trends.

These shops all have strong website support.

I am aware two of those shops have 9900 or M2 on the floor being Stereophonic in Carlton and Klapp in Prahan (hi net worth demographic inner city areas).

There are a number of online traders of hiend audio like Dac, turntables, headfirst, amps.

We have SGA and Whamough do manufacturing some product manufacture locally and Lorantz do OEO loudspeaker component manufacture of pulp cones and frames and magnets from Brazil.

There are a number of small cottage hiend businesses with online marketing of imported product.

Adelaide has significant audio manufacturing with Kriz loudspeaker and VAF loudspeakers.

Kriz supports the cinema install market and some retail distribution and VAF is an online manufacturer of finished product and kits. VAF has strong R&D division and tenders for commercial and government.

I am not sure if DEQX is made locally or overseas.

I am not sure how this compares to large cities like Chicago or Boston or NYC or SF but l would find it hard to accept some retail presence (like that in Melbourne) of JBL luxury ranges could not exist given distribution of income in these large centres.

So it's quite understandable that JBL has entered the Lifestyle audio market but it's the Auto business that is the big focus particularly the patents on media connectivity in the Auto business.

This is the growth area. HIFI and installs will always be around but it's not growth or an emerging market.

[speakerdave]

:)

[Wagner]

But if the JBL faithful here in the US will not purchase their better speakers, it does not bode well for JBL going forward as they will see this as vindication for why they only offered them in Japan to begin with.
So does that mean that the Japanese better speaker owner guy can still get a re-cone kit? Does it have to be 5 years old or newer?

As for markets outside the U.S. already addressed, you are selectively ignoring the timeline of events and shifting talking points around to fit your walk back

"Vindication"?

I don't like to use the word, but "WOW"

[Wagner]

Wagner, I think you have had too much caffeine today...........

There is no inconsistency in being sad that Greg Timbers and Jerry Moro lost their jobs or angry in how they were unceremoniously released from Harman and also realizing that if sales aren't there then ultimately changes have to be made.

I am not suggesting it is the sole responsibility of forum members here to keep JBL afloat by buying their new product. But if the JBL faithful here in the US will not purchase their better speakers, it does not bode well for JBL going forward as they will see this as vindication for why they only offered them in Japan to begin with.

So based on that I am glad to see that many here have recently bought new JBL product.
Why did you sell the business?
This is it, correct?:
http://www.audiovideologic.com/

Why doesn't your store's website feature any shots of your demo rooms, with all those nice TOTL JBL speakers? Makes the website look like a drop shipper's or a warehouse store's without any.
Might want to consider that
Did find a few on-line though:
http://www.yellowpages.com/urbandale-ia/mip/audio-video-logic-503070 (may want to update, no JBL in the brands list)

http://www.houzz.com/pro/audiovideologicia/audio-video-logic
(http://www.audiovideologic.com/)
Is this one of you?:
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh52/kwidgeon/JohnWJBLsub.jpg

[jpw]

I have been open in a number of posts about my affiliation with my former retail store. So there has been no hidden agenda although some that may have one will invent one for me. Yes the five year old photo is of me next to a custom JBL subwoofer. You can tell from the gray hair why I sold. Time to retire! The store has six sound rooms and totals about 4600 sq/ft. More photos of rooms will be posted as our webpage redesign is completed. Most of our business is local to Des Moines retail although we do have lots of long distance customers too.

[Wagner]

I have been open in a number of posts about my affiliation with my former retail store. So there has been no hidden agenda although some that may have one will invent one for me.

No one that I am aware of said that there was

Get some photos up of some of those high end JBL installs! :yes:

At least you still have some hair

Good luck!

[1audiohack]

Two 1400 Arrays and two 1500 Arrays, three years ago. Two 4365's just over a year ago. All new.

All the parts for a pair of DIY M2's including the Crown I-TECH 5000HD amps, this year.

Vintage driver re-cone kits and parts in five years? far too many to mention.

Am I happy with JBL? Nope but I am well balanced, I have a chip on both shoulders.

Barry.

[BMWCCA]

I have a pair of LSR305s that I purchased within the past year and enjoy very much. I consider them a fine speaker system available at a very fair price.

Am also the original owner of a pair of L112s purchased new when I was but a few years out of college. Bought them for our bedroom for our first anniversary almost 34-years ago. The cost then was nearly $1000 per pair, from my local dealer where I still live. It would seem if I could do that then, I'd be a prime candidate for some current JBLs today. The problem is there is nowhere to hear them. I think I would be impressed with the 590 but I'm not inclined to buy them from Harman off the web without having heard them first. My local dealer is still in business, under new ownership recently, but no longer handle JBL. They apparently still find enough buyers for their McIntosh line, Klipsch, GoldenEar, etc, but not JBL. I don't know why that is but I suspect that recently JBL has expended all its energy in producing TOTL systems for sale elsewhere while at the same time diminishing their name value by slapping it on cheap plastic crap which makes it hard for customers to take their $60k products seriously and especially their more reasonably priced models—no matter how good they actually are. :dont-know:

[dprice]

LSR305 and parts for M2 clones.

Theoretically I would have purchased something between the 4312E and the K2 S9900 if I could have listened to them at a local shop. Local meaning a large part of Florida.

[VJunction]

I live in Des Moines and know Audio Video Logic well. I've know the store since it opened at it's first location. Great store, great people period! They have several very nice show rooms showing the gear they carry. The links below are something from a builders site I assume for home theatre stuff. They are anything but drop shippers. I love the fact that I have always been able to take equipment home and audition it. Good store, good people that have with stood the test of time in a hard industry that depends on sales from mostly "desposable income".


Why did you sell the business?
This is it, correct?:
http://www.audiovideologic.com/

Why doesn't your store's website feature any shots of your demo rooms, with all those nice TOTL JBL speakers? Makes the website look like a drop shipper's or a warehouse store's without any.
Might want to consider that
Did find a few on-line though:
http://www.yellowpages.com/urbandale-ia/mip/audio-video-logic-503070 (may want to update, no JBL in the brands list)

http://www.houzz.com/pro/audiovideologicia/audio-video-logic
(http://www.audiovideologic.com/)
Is this one of you?:
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh52/kwidgeon/JohnWJBLsub.jpg

[Wagner]

I live in Des Moines and know Audio Video Logic well. I've know the store since it opened at it's first location. Great store, great people period! They have several very nice show rooms showing the gear they carry. The links below are something from a builders site I assume for home theatre stuff. They are anything but drop shippers. I love the fact that I have always been able to take equipment home and audition it. Good store, good people that have with stood the test of time in a hard industry that depends on sales from mostly "desposable income".
The first link is to their own website, if it weren't for the "builder's" page I'd have had no photos other than a Google street view

Secondly, I DID NOT ACCUSE them of BEING a drop shipper, just stated that their website LOOKS LIKE ONE

And it does

[Wagner]

Regarding price, comparing street price then (fair trade and no internet), for street price now (internet and sold much nearer dealer cost), and adjusted X4 for inflation from the 1970's, many of JBL's speakers today are no more unreachable for the average guy now than they were then. MSRP on the L-100 was $273 each vs $1000 each for 4312E (today's pro version equivalent) and available for closer to $750 each.

Except that budgets are tighter now due to stagnant wages and massive inflation of housing, education, and healthcare (none of which are included in the badly-flawed "Market basket" model of inflation used for CPI)
Yes, I agree 100%

I love it today when people (especially politicians) throw numbers around like that

"Well, it was $273 then and that means (only) a $1,000 now after being "adjusted", so it's all the same thing so what's your problem?"

A dream world where money is just a number and the result of the latest contract negotiation or business decision; "sorry, nothing personal, it's purely a business decision" as you hand the guy his pink slip

I don't think a great number of people really know just what a typical "living" is nowadays, or how few folks could actually buy a pair of speakers TODAY that cost $546 without destroying their budgets for a couple months OR putting them on a credit card

Unless they are fortunate enough to have a good gubmnet job

[VJunction]

To me their web page does not at all look like a "drop shippers" web page. The first thing you see is the their complete street address, email, phone numbers , store hours, open late Thursday......

I'm not accusing them of being a great hi end store, I'm implying it :)

The first link is to their own website, if it weren't for the "builder's" page I'd have had no photos other than a Google street view

Secondly, I DID NOT ACCUSE them of BEING a drop shipper, just stated that their website LOOKS LIKE ONE

And it does

[Wagner]

To me their web page does not at all look like a "drop shippers" web page. The first thing you see is the their complete street address, email, phone numbers , store hours, open late Thursday......

I'm not accusing them of being a great hi end store, I'm implying it :)
Being a drop shipper, or a big box store, or a HT installer isn't necessarily a bad thing, I am not "implying" that AT ALL

Many of the popular "high end" on-line sellers are a hybrid of both worlds: small stuff in onsite inventory and the big stuff comes out of a warehouse someplace after you place your order..............why pay for, and risk the perils of redundant shipping (and at the same time lose your profit) Mutually beneficial networking

Example: I buy a lot of product from FCP Euro in Connecticut. When I order, and pay them for a radiator it is shipped not from their location but a Nissens' warehouse in Texas. But if I have any problems with the order or any warranty concerns arise, FCP's Connecticut location handles it in exactly the same fashion as if I walked in off the street and bought it from their store front. You're not shined on to some manufacturer's service center

What I am saying, not implying, is that it is cheesy and nothing about it conveys "high end" or "high performance" or "high" anything

It looks about as "high end" as the Parts Express website; the OP claims a first class nationally inventory so why not show it?

Something a little better than JBL stock photos the size of a postage stamp with no indication of what is, or isn't, "in stock" unless you put it in "the shopping cart"

Just might sell more of it that way, maybe pull in more out of state buyers as well

Hear me now?

Nothing personal, just business

[hsosdrum]

My current JBLs are pair of 4312Es that I got directly from JBL when I was working at Harman (being used as one of three pairs of studio monitors), a 4641 subwoofer (bought retail) that I'm using in my home theater setup (see below), and a pair of Control CRV surface-mount contractor speakers that I won at a Christmas raffle also when I was working at Harman (still new in the boxes—there's no place to put them in my 1,000 square-foot house).

I also have one of the old paging speakers that had been used in the JBL factory. The paging system had not been used since JBL moved the bulk of their manufacturing out of Northridge, and when Harman was subdividing the former factory for sub-lease, the facilities crew removed that paging speaker and were going to 86 it in the dumpster. I got wind of this and got them to sign it over to me instead of shit-canning it. By the way, that paging system consisted of 2350 horns powered by 2482 drivers that were hanging all over the building. I was hoping to rescue a second horn/driver combo as Harman continued to shrink JBL, but they downsized our department before I could, so I have just the one. (I've never even checked to see if it still works.)

In reference to another post in this thread about JBL speakers in home theater systems, I put my HT system together in the mid-1990s with Klipsch KT-LCR left, center and right speakers and Klipsch KT-SUR surrounds, which in all respects sounded far better than JBL's comparatively-priced THX-certified offerings available at that time (D'Appolito LCRs w/5-1/4" woofers, and dipolar surrounds, I forget the model numbers). If I had the money I'd replace the Klipschs with five M2s in a heartbeat. Short of that, in the last dozen or so years I haven't heard any speakers from anyone (including JBL) that would tempt me to replace my HT system's L/C/R/LS/RS speakers.

The HT subwoofer is a whole other matter. At first I was using a pair of Klipsch Cornwall IIs as subs (amp directly connected to the 15" woofers, bypassing the crossovers) and they kicked pretty good down to about 30Hz. Then I got married and to improve the WAF I replaced the Klipschs with a single Kenwood THX-certified passive 12" (we bought a house with a much smaller living room). I was never very happy with the Kenwood sub's ill-defined and bloated sound (got it for free when I worked there) and eventually my wife was not happy with me, so after we split-up I replaced the Kenwood with the JBL 4641 (which, coincidentally, shares almost the identical dimensions as a single Klipsch Cornwall). The 4641 is hugely superior to the pair of Cornwalls: much more musical detail, much more authority and more neutral frequency balance. It makes absolutely everything I listen to sound so much more REAL. I just got my hands on a Sonance DSP 2-150 amp (about 475 watts bridged) which has built-in DSP, so when I get it installed I'll be able to utilize JBL's recommended 20Hz high-pass filter and 6dB (Q=2) of boost at 25Hz. Should rock the house!

[youngho]

I don't think you understand that being a drop shipper, or a big box store, or a HT installer is necessarily a bad thing, I am not "implying" that AT ALL

What I am saying, not implying, is that it is cheesy and nothing about it conveys "high end" or "high performance" or "high" anything

It looks about as "high end" as the Parts Express website; the OP claims a first class nationally inventory so why not show it?

And that might be just fine and functional enough for the Iowa market; I don't know and I don't care

Something a little better than JBL stock photos the size of a postage stamp with no indication of what is, or isn't, "in stock" unless you put it in "the shopping cart"

Just might sell more of it that way, maybe pull in more out of state buyers as well

Hear me now?

Nothing personal, just business

Wagner, you don't seem calm to me.

[srm51555]

When I first saw this thread I thought to myself "Wow, three pages of everyone congratulating and drooling over each others purchases". My excitement faded quickly. The only thing I have that is Harman and less than 5 years is a Crown Dci 4300N.

[hsosdrum]

When I first saw this thread I thought to myself "Wow, three pages of everyone congratulating and drooling over each others purchases". My excitement faded quickly. The only thing I have that is Harman and less than 5 years is a Crown Dci 4300N.

This is still a good thread as long as you skip all of Wagner's rants.

[4313B]

Just don't be so shocked when the resources for JBL to continue to build new products, or support old ones, dries up.The sooner JBL gets sold and broken up into pieces the better.
I am convinced that it is humanly impossible to possess more ill will towards them than I currently do.
I purchased one pair of JBLs in the past five years and five pairs of Tannoys.
I am perfectly happy to say that I will never, ever buy another JBL loudspeaker again. :)

[BMWCCA]

I am perfectly happy to say that I will never, ever buy another JBL loudspeaker again. :)
And I find that sad, in many ways.

I, too, may have purchased my last (I currently own over a dozen pair). Perhaps some used examples may come my way, especially if the bozos at H/K screw up the JBL reputation enough that in a few years the DD67000 price drops into the affordable-stretch range!

[Wagner]

When I first saw this thread I thought to myself "Wow, three pages of everyone congratulating and drooling over each others purchases". My excitement faded quickly. The only thing I have that is Harman and less than 5 years is a Crown Dci 4300N.
The topic is JBL speakers, not "Harman at large"

[Audiobeer]

I've got little to add about JBL that's constructive. Thier Mission Plan is right in line with a lot of businesses of late. CEO's making millions, and a workforce that is hired not for skills but on how little the corporation has to pay them. A lot of people see that as OK, part of the way the world is. I'll just say I enjoy the Heritage projects but could give 2 Sh&ts about any new products. I won't pursue them regardless of price. Call me a grouchy old man but I commented on this years ago when Dell turned folks lives upside down by mass severances available only if they trained their replacements. It's a Walmart world folks!

[Wagner]

This is still a good thread as long as you skip all of Wagner's kvetching.
Other than the sidetrack posts, with the OP, how is anything I have said complaining?

Do you enjoy being routinely misquoted?

[Wagner]

I've got little to add about JBL that's constructive. Thier Mission Plan is right in line with a lot of businesses of late. CEO's making millions, and a workforce that is hired not for skills but on how little the corporation has to pay them. A lot of people see that as OK, part of the way the world is. I'll just say I enjoy the Heritage projects but could give 2 Sh&ts about any new products. I won't pursue them regardless of price. Call me a grouchy old man but I commented on this years ago when Dell turned folks lives upside down by mass severances available only if they trained their replacements. It's a Walmart world folks!
The truth is constructive............
Wish there was a "like" button to push ;)

[Wagner]

The sooner JBL gets sold and broken up into pieces the better.
I am convinced that it is humanly impossible to possess more ill will towards them than I currently do.
I purchased one pair of JBLs in the past five years and five pairs of Tannoys.
I am perfectly happy to say that I will never, ever buy another JBL loudspeaker again. :)
Including "vintage"? :(

[4313B]

Including "vintage"? :(I have nothing at all against the Timbers era products. Quite the opposite in fact. I'll remember the era quite fondly. And I'll remember Moro's splendid contributions to it as well.

[hsosdrum]

Other than the sidetrack posts, with the OP, how is anything I have said complaining?

Do you enjoy being routinely misquoted?

Fair enough. I've changed "kvetching" to "rants" to more accurately characterize the nature of your posts.

[Ian Mackenzie]

And the "high end" stuff? The designs that actually share the lineage? Well, just look at how they deal with that, parsing it out (building reluctantly) to the Japanese market, the models still around but that MOST people cannot afford.................marketing, with some implication of nonexistent "trickle down" to the black chinese crap wearing a cheap JBL badge at Best Buy.............the stuff you can't service even if you wanted to..........and now, they send the guy's who built those masterpieces to the unemployment line

Hi Thomas,

l think if you read Don's excellent articles in the Library you will find JBL was hardly reluctant in building systems for the Japanese audiophile market!

How you ever been to Tokyo and enjoyed entertainment in a Jazz bar or visited a HiFi salon in Electric City?

If you did it would stand as an education on not only the epicentre of the HIFI market but on good table manners.

I have and l took a tour of some of the most impress HIFI shops with a fellow Lansing forum member and resident of Tokyo and l found the Japanese audio consumer highly educated, sophisticated, friendly and they know how to entertain guests.

Japan is some of the most loyal and esteemed JBL users.

[Wagner]

And the "high end" stuff? The designs that actually share the lineage? Well, just look at how they deal with that, parsing it out (building reluctantly) to the Japanese market, the models still around but that MOST people cannot afford.................marketing, with some implication of nonexistent "trickle down" to the black chinese crap wearing a cheap JBL badge at Best Buy.............the stuff you can't service even if you wanted to..........and now, they send the guy's who built those masterpieces to the unemployment line

Hi Thomas,

l think if you read Don's excellent articles in the Library you will find JBL was hardly reluctant in building systems for the Japanese audiophile market!

How you ever been to Tokyo and enjoyed entertainment in a Jazz bar or visited a HiFi salon in Electric City?

If you did it would stand as an education on not only the epicentre of the HIFI market but on good table manners.

I have and l took a tour of some of the most impress HIFI shops with a fellow Lansing forum member and resident of Tokyo and l found the Japanese audio consumer highly educated, sophisticated, friendly and they know how to entertain guests.

Japan is some of the most loyal and esteemed JBL users.
Understood, I am keenly aware of what you speak; I have never visited Japan but have a brother who lived there for 5 years
99.9% of all the L100s, L96s, L112s etc were all purchased from brick and mortar outlets...............well, those days are all but gone, I understand that.............but I also understand that there is a void that could have been filled. That is (one big) reason why Japan is still getting the lion's share of the good stuff

My remarks were in regard to what we, the ones who "brung 'em to the dance" have been relegated to

I am upset or bewildered in the least that many Japanese have a seemingly natural affinity, even passion, for all things American of the highest quality, from "vintage" Disney to McIntosh amplifiers, and acquiring it, irrespective of the fact that they themselves have proven more than capable in their own right

Every ePayer's dream with a JBL closet find: a well heeled Japanese buyer. Who do you think is paying a Grand for all those old pairs of L100s? :) Certainly not KENRICK!

In many ways some of them take better care of, and appreciate, our manufacturing history more so than some of us do (this will pass though as their population ages as well; they are suffering their own losses and decay right now)

That was my point

[tom1040]

Personally, I have purchased a pair of 1400 Arrays, used, from James Tanner of Bryston. Also purchased a 1500 Array sub from Widget. Today, actually anytime right now, a pair of JBL 4365's are being delivered to my home.:banana:

Certainly not built within five years, is a pair of S3100's that I just got last Monday.


So, I know none of the above were purchased new, however, they are new to me and a couple are within the 5 year span the OP asked about.

Rock on!

[tom1040]

CRAP.

4365 speaker delivery delayed. Man, some day's just su*k. I was looking forward for this day for a while....:crying:

[JeffW]

I notice that the 4365 is now listed as "Discontinued" on the Synthesis site. I really like that speaker, guess I shoulda jumped sooner.

[4313B]

It takes me upwards of a year to get anything from JBL. They are by far and away the worst company ever in the history of the world for deliverables. The only thing I can think of is that they have one person making everything by hand and that person is a part timer four hours per day, three days per week with ten weeks paid vacation per year. I am so ecstatic that I no longer have to deal with them I can barely contain myself. :bouncy:

[Wagner]

CRAP.

4365 speaker delivery delayed. Man, some day's just su*k. I was looking forward for this day for a while....:crying:
How long have you been waiting to hear this?
Maybe they are being drop shipped from a Japanese dealer in Tokyo?
All jive aside, sorry for your hassles, sincerely

Thomas

[Wagner]

I notice that the 4365 is now listed as "Discontinued" on the Synthesis site. I really like that speaker, guess I shoulda jumped sooner.
Wonder if we will see what happened when Matsushita discontinued production of the venerable SL-1200 to whatever is left in the JBL pipeline?

[Mr. Widget]

CRAP.

4365 speaker delivery delayed. Man, some day's just su*k. I was looking forward for this day for a while....:crying:Oh dear... that is not a good sign. Did you buy these through a Synthesis dealer? We usually get the complete systems within a week of ordering... parts – a different story. :(

I really, really liked them. I am not surprised they are discontinued, but that is a real shame. One by one all of these systems will disappear if they are not selling them by the pallet to somebody. (Japan, Europe, Russia, etc...) I guess this goes back to the OP topic.

There simply isn't enough demand to make sense for the typical global corporation to produce these boutique goods.

FWIW: I have bought (2) DD66000s and (1) 880 Array in the last five years and (2) 1400 Arrays in 2010. (Trying to do my part. :D )


Widget

[SEAWOLF97]

Wonder if we will see what happened when Matsushita discontinued production of the venerable SL-1200 to whatever is left in the JBL pipeline?

But they've recently revived it ... tho new price :(

http://www.mixmag.net/read/panasonics-technics-sl-1200g-has-returned-news
[url]

[Wagner]

But they've recently revived it ... tho new price :(

http://www.mixmag.net/read/panasonics-technics-sl-1200g-has-returned-news
[url]
http://www.technics.com/global/introduction/hifi-direct-drive-turntable-system-sl-1200gae/

I suspected this would happen but did not know it already had, thank you!
Guess they figured they needed a turntable to go with all their new high price electronics

http://www.whathifi.com/technics/sl-1200g/review

That, or a brilliant marketing ploy

http://djtechtools.com/2016/03/01/why-the-new-technics-turntable-will-be-4000/

I had seen the prototype of the new, sleeker deck

Now, one of those articles infers it was for the "new" 1200 all along?
Either way...............
I love it, "we lost all the tooling", yeah, lost it straight to china and Hanpin to churn out all those "Super OEMs":

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/03/technics-sl-1200g-costs-3000-because-original-manufacturing-tools-were-gone/

http://www.passionatedj.com/why-pioneer-is-making-turntables-now/

Know where they're building this incarnation? At $4 Grand I hope it's Japan

[Robh3606]

I have an Array 880 center a pair of Beryllium Array 1400's and components for the M2 in the form of waveguides 2216's and 476Mgs. Components for another pair of Array 1400's. Considering I still have my L25 Prima's and L100's from 1974/75 I will probably keep these until either they or I stop working.

Rob:)

[SEAWOLF97]

I suspected this would happen but did not know it already had, thank you!
Know where they're building this incarnation? At $4 Grand I hope it's Japan

yup, at $4K USD , it may not be on my radar for a while.

regarding JBL's less than 5 y.o.

I was reading an article on TI calculators. The newest ti89 ? really does NOT do anymore of value than a vintage 82, hence the reduced sales on the newest models and continued sales of used 82's.

I wonder if this phenom is applicable to JBL ? Really, my vintage JBLs suffice. They are much better than the majority of current speakers of a similar price range. Unless you have money to burn or very little other priorities, why replace what works with what's new & shiny ? (& not affordably priced any longer)

IF you are starting out from scratch or have to own the newest/greatest, sure, go for the new ones. Most of us here don't fit that category. :dont-know:

[Hoerninger]

... the reduced sales on the newest models and continued sales of used 82's.

And be aware of all these Casios etc. which have never reached the quality of for example HP.

[Ed Kreamer]

Colleagues,

While I do not currently own anything new, My 4410's (with LE10's for the LF's) and 4408's suffice for my listening quite nicely. I want to purchase in the future LSR 6332's for the front ( 3 of 'em) , by the time I get them IF I get them they will be already more than 5 Years old. because I buy used. My children think I'm cheap. I think I'm thrifty.

[DanMan]

Yep. JBL IBT. I just couldn't help myself. It's a cute little guy that has 4 speakers pointing in different directions that seems to mimic those conference call speakers used in office conference rooms. It quickly attains and hold a bluetooth signal and is great for my conference calls.


70829

[BMWCCA]

Well, yeah, I also have a JBL OnBeat Mini dock. Saw them on-sale for about $29 once and use it on my desk at work to charge customer's iPads and phones and to play music from my phone whenever I can shut-off the Sirius that drones on in the showroom. Does a very nice job for what it is.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81NMGUOBfGL._SL1500_.jpg

[DanMan]

I also live this little JBL Micro Wireless speaker... It plays loud and clear and hardly distorts at full volume. Sadly, the awesome JBL Flip Case houses an equally awesome UE Boom "360 degree sound" speaker - also great for conference calls around a table. Luckily the coffee mug contains Irish Coffee :)

70832

[dprice]

Oh yeah...forgot about the 5x7 coax (rear) and 5x7 component (front) JBLs I installed in my new (then) F150 about 3 years ago. Tossed out the "premium" Sony speakers and installed the much better JBLs...though at about $150 for both pairs they were still quite affordable.

[doodle6]

Wagner and Challenger604. Neither of you answered the simple question in the post. Have you purchased a JBL speaker new within the last 5 years and what model (or models) is it?

Regarding your reply and agreement respectively, Heritage website name notwithstanding, a lot of griping is done here about what JBL is or isn't doing TODAY.

I know from 40 plus years of involvement in audio as a dealer, having regular contact with both customers and vendors, that consumer (non pro) part sales are today a tiny fraction of sales compared to completed speaker packages. Like it or not consumer speaker companies can not survive if people don't buy their latest efforts.

It's true that JBL has made a lot of marketing mistakes including not offering their better product in the US until more recently, but many better models have now been available here for well over five years. Regarding price, comparing street price then (fair trade and no internet), for street price now (internet and sold much nearer dealer cost), and adjusted X4 for inflation from the 1970's, many of JBL's speakers today are no more unreachable for the average guy now than they were then. MSRP on the L-100 was $273 each vs $1000 each for 4312E (today's pro version equivalent) and available for closer to $750 each.

So enjoy your vintage JBL speakers as I have, and build your DIY JBL speakers as I have. Just don't be so shocked when the resources for JBL to continue to build new products, or support old ones, dries up.I've been buying JBL speakers for over forty years now and although I've been lured away from the vintage stuff from time to time by rave reviews of other companies' products, I've always come back to the old vintage JBLs. IMO, no one has ever matched the accuracy and dynamics of the old JBL stuff from the 70s and 80s. That being said, they hit a big home run in the mid 90s with the L- series but failed to provide product support for that line. How could they expect to build a new fan base when parts weren't available through factory support for a really great design success? They certainly have been able to do well selling parts for the 43XX series for how many decades, eh? Seems to me that they lost focus on quality and started selling price point speakers that had fairly short life spans, at least as compared to the vintage stuff. Ever wonder why that stuff is commanding prices that are double, triple, quadruple what the original sales prices were? That era for JBL was analogous to the mid to late 60s for American muscle cars - reflecting a commitment to design engineering with no truck for cost considerations. That's what made JBL the icon that current ownership is not sustaining.

[doodle6]

.

[doodle6]

Wagner and Challenger604. Neither of you answered the simple question in the post. Have you purchased a JBL speaker new within the last 5 years and what model (or models) is it?

Regarding your reply and agreement respectively, Heritage website name notwithstanding, a lot of griping is done here about what JBL is or isn't doing TODAY.

I know from 40 plus years of involvement in audio as a dealer, having regular contact with both customers and vendors, that consumer (non pro) part sales are today a tiny fraction of sales compared to completed speaker packages. Like it or not consumer speaker companies can not survive if people don't buy their latest efforts.

It's true that JBL has made a lot of marketing mistakes including not offering their better product in the US until more recently, but many better models have now been available here for well over five years. Regarding price, comparing street price then (fair trade and no internet), for street price now (internet and sold much nearer dealer cost), and adjusted X4 for inflation from the 1970's, many of JBL's speakers today are no more unreachable for the average guy now than they were then. MSRP on the L-100 was $273 each vs $1000 each for 4312E (today's pro version equivalent) and available for closer to $750 each.

So enjoy your vintage JBL speakers as I have, and build your DIY JBL speakers as I have. Just don't be so shocked when the resources for JBL to continue to build new products, or support old ones, dries up.A lot of us here use McIntosh equipment to drive our stuff. How are they doing with their product support? The fact that their factory continues to provide product support for the stuff that they built five decades ago doesn't seem to have hurt them at all. Rather, it has made them into one of the most respected electronics companies on the planet.

[doodle6]

I am not the one who started the flames here. I simple wanted to gauge what excitement and commitment there is for newer JBL product here along with the interest in vintage and DIY. Most, but not all, replies were on topic and civil.This place wouldn't have new posts daily if members weren't excited and enthusiastic about JBL yesterday, today, AND tomorrow. I have multiple pairs of 4343s, L-300s, L220s and other great old vintage speakers (mint 4350s that I may have to part with) as well as new Array 1400s and DD67000s (still in the boxes), so I don't think there's any lack of customer support in this crowd for the old or the new.

[doodle6]

And I find that sad, in many ways.

I, too, may have purchased my last (I currently own over a dozen pair). Perhaps some used examples may come my way, especially if the bozos at H/K screw up the JBL reputation enough that in a few years the DD67000 price drops into the affordable-stretch range!I'll put a link to you in my will so my wife will know what to do with mine.....

[doodle6]

I have nothing at all against the Timbers era products. Quite the opposite in fact. I'll remember the era quite fondly. And I'll remember Moro's splendid contributions to it as well.
Amen!!!

[DanMan]

For what it's worth .........

I did recently try to buy a new pair of JBL (cinema (http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/cinema-market/screenarray-systems-2-way/4722_4722n#.Vw3Eu3pewVA)) speakers and it was one of the worst buying experiences of my adult life. It was worse than pulling teeth...... and I just had a tooth extracted ... so it's the "voice" of experience in this theater!

Why the heck would it be so hard? Many on here have posted about the current status of companies in the US in general (including JBL in specific) with regards to their shareholders and their staffing reductions. But one would think that would make the actual 'buying' process even easier when in fact the reverse is true.


There were no return emails from the JBL website, nor my many attempts with their facebook page.

There was only one return email from the very few "dealers" listed on the JBL pro website, to say they "had no idea where to purchase JBL products, and sorry we couldn't be of any assistance."

I finally wound up calling JBL directly and asked to speak to the "sales department". They didn't know what a 'sales department' was and rerouted me to their 'technical support' department, a guy who was nice enough to recommend another guy in another department. That guy didn't know how to help me either! After some insistence and an enticing background story of our relationship with JBL products starting in 1969....... he was finally able to put me in touch with his actual father who worked for another company that was able to help find purchasing options for me.

Even after getting all the details from him, and after telling him I was ready to purchase, it still took him 4 full days to get an answer from his "supplier" on how, and how much, to charge for shipping.

By the end of the 2 week ordeal, I had already resurrected a pair of JBL speakers from my private 'stash' that somewhat fit the bill for my application and was no longer in a purchasing stance.

Again, for what it's worth ...... I had the EXACT same difficulty recently trying to purchase cinema speakers from QSC. So while I don't publicly admit to buying non-JBL products...... the same problems do exist at other speaker companies.

<insert Metallica - "Sad But True" sound file>

[DanMan]

doodle 6 said "(mint 4350s that I may have to part with)"

I'm right below you in Austin, maybe we can work a deal or trade!??

[Mr. Widget]

I have multiple pairs of... as well as new Array 1400s and DD67000s (still in the boxes).Get them the hell out of those boxes. They sound much better that way! :bouncy:


Widget

[doodle6]

doodle 6 said "(mint 4350s that I may have to part with)"

I'm right below you in Austin, maybe we can work a deal or trade!??

PM sent.

[LowPhreak]

For what it's worth .........

I did recently try to buy a new pair of JBL (cinema (http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/cinema-market/screenarray-systems-2-way/4722_4722n#.Vw3Eu3pewVA)) speakers and it was one of the worst buying experiences of my adult life. ...

Sounds like a truly ridiculous experience, brought to you by the clueless asshats currently inhabiting JBL management. Not unlike my last go-round with an attempt to purchase from a certain Synthesis dealer (then later, any Synthesis dealer), and failing that, from JBL directly. Long before reaching the end of the process, I felt like punching kittens.

:banghead:


Maybe if you were a purchaser for a commercial theater chain you could have gotten at the Cinema line a bit easier? Or perhaps the intent (with Synthesis too) is to create a form of artificial scarcity, in hopes of keeping prices higher and/or to manufacture "desirability"? :dont-know: I would put nothing past these mooks.

Anyway, 590s here. Doing my best to shamelessly abscond with as much Chinese plastic as possible, with "fairly short life spans" to feed the landfills as rapidly as possible. My former 4412s and SR4725Xs didn't quite fit that category.


I'll get me coat...:leaving:

[Sandbites]

Bought a new pair of 4312e in Japan. Sounds wonderful. Displaced the songs Faber in the main listening room. I was supposed to run the 4312 in separate room with a Yamaha DSPA1 integrated.

I enjoyed the 4312 so much that they are now in my main listening area being powered by Mcintosh C200 and MC-275 vi

[DEP14]

S3900's, purchased about 8 months ago. Love them, want to try/hear/buy? the 9900's someday!

[johnhere]

Hallo!

I had 4319 and replaced it with 4429. I also have 4365. Bought all new!

How much better is 4365 than 4429?

[Kalle]

Got two DIY M2 and thinking of getting LSR305 for surrounds if I don't think my control 25AV will work.
/Karl

[tom1040]

I have the 1400 Arrays/1500 Array as well as a pair of 4365's. I am fairly sure I bought the Arrays within the 5 year timeframe.......

[Dave_72]

i have had the S4700s for riight around 4 years now..i'm almost positive i'm the only S4700 owner around here...not sure why that is but whatever! lol.

[jblnut]

New LSR305's here (in red too) - other than that it's all vintage. The Array 1400's almost got me to sell of the 250Ti's. Almost....

jblnut

[BMWCCA]

i'm almost positive i'm the only S4700 owner around here...not sure why that is but whatever! lol.

Just a guess, but could it have something to do with the $20,000 list price? :dont-know:

Don't get me wrong; I'm happy for you . . . and envious. Mostly I'd love to hear a pair but no such luck anywhere around here.

[jblnut]

Same here - would love some new large JBL's but the price is a serious barrier to entry with one kid in college and another starting in a few years. I'm looking on the bright side though...in 10 years there should be some good deals out there as folks look for newer JBLs. Assuming that there still is a JBL in 10 years....


jblnut

[BMWCCA]

I'm looking on the bright side though...in 10 years there should be some good deals out there as folks look for newer JBLs. ....
Don't count on it! I remember first watching the price of L300s in anticipation of getting a pair I'd lusted after since they first came out. I remember some once around $1200/pair but the longer I waited, the more expensive they got. When I finally settled on my 4345s, the average price of a decent pair of L300s was often over $4000.

[jblnut]

It'll happen - priced Array 1400's lately ? I'm nothing if not patient...

:-)


jblnut