Considering L100's, please give me some advice.

[Onebean]

Hello, this is my first post here on the Lansing forum. I've been drooling over vintage JBL's for a while now, and I am considering purchasing some L100's to get into the JBL camp. My end goal would be a big beautiful pair high end studio monitors like I see here often, but that's not in the cards currently.

There's a pair of L100 for sale locally that are rough, but the owner says they work fine. The cabinets have been painted, and the grills are gone (not included in the sale). The foam around the tweeter is also long gone. I assume the crossover will need a full rebuild, and they will need lots of cosmetic work. If I can get these for $250-$300, am I over paying? I know replacement grills will set me back at least that much, and by the time I rebuild the crossover, I'll have $600 or more in them. My goal would be to sell them eventually and get my money back to apply to a larger pair of studio monitors (in several years). What should I be concerned with if I go look at them? Are the drivers alnico on these?

I have seen some pretty impressive videos on youtube showing the capability of there L100. Kenrick videos are very impressive. Are they really that good? I'm not afraid of the work to restore these, I just don't want to get completely upside down on them. Thanks for the guidance.

Onebean

[SEAWOLF97]

There's a pair of L100 for sale locally that are rough, but the owner says they work fine. The cabinets have been painted, and the grills are gone (not included in the sale). The foam around the tweeter is also long gone. I assume the crossover will need a full rebuild, and they will need lots of cosmetic work. If I can get these for $250-$300, am I over paying? I know replacement grills will set me back at least that much, and by the time I rebuild the crossover, I'll have $600 or more in them. My goal would be to sell them eventually and get my money back to apply to a larger pair of studio monitors (in several years).
Onebean

L100 drivers are common. Xover is simple, doubt that it needs work. $250-$300 is just Ok for "rough". Assume that they need veneer work too, after stripping paint.

They aren't rare. If you are buying for personal use, that's a good starting point , but if in fact, you get $600 into them, then breaking even may be a stretch .... unless you live in a market where they are rare & valuable. IMHO.

The general LHF take on L100's is = Fake, but fun.

LF driver runs "full range" ie: no xover cutoff on it, overlaps with the mid.

Around here very nice ones are at about $4-500 ..asking price.

[quindecima]

If you can get them for $200/$250 then your good, get new tweeter foam from Epay and re-veneer them. You can make new grills and cover them with JBL cloth available also on Epay.

[Wagner]

Hello, this is my first post here on the Lansing forum. I've been drooling over vintage JBL's for a while now, and I am considering purchasing some L100's to get into the JBL camp. My end goal would be a big beautiful pair high end studio monitors like I see here often, but that's not in the cards currently.

There's a pair of L100 for sale locally that are rough, but the owner says they work fine. The cabinets have been painted, and the grills are gone (not included in the sale). The foam around the tweeter is also long gone. I assume the crossover will need a full rebuild, and they will need lots of cosmetic work. If I can get these for $250-$300, am I over paying? I know replacement grills will set me back at least that much, and by the time I rebuild the crossover, I'll have $600 or more in them. My goal would be to sell them eventually and get my money back to apply to a larger pair of studio monitors (in several years). What should I be concerned with if I go look at them? Are the drivers alnico on these?

I have seen some pretty impressive videos on youtube showing the capability of there L100. Kenrick videos are very impressive. Are they really that good? I'm not afraid of the work to restore these, I just don't want to get completely upside down on them. Thanks for the guidance.

Onebean
L100 prices are only moving in one direction and that is UP, even for some of the most ragged crap pairs I could have ever imagined
That being said, I think $250-$300 dollars is TOO MUCH for a pair that has had it's veneer ruined with paint AND suffers from missing in action grille frames
You MIGHT be able to remove it successfully and entirely (the paint) but that would be a big gamble
The other question you have to ask is why were they painted in the first place? To cover beat up and damaged veneer or simply because someone wanted to?

$250-$300 dollars is an EXCELLENT price for a wholly intact pair even if it needed some minor cosmetic wood restoration; for a complete strip and possible re-veneer not so much (and other unknowns, I say this because of the paint job, not very confidence inspiring)

Decent to excellent pairs have been trending in the high "500"s up to a Grand and beyond for the exceptional (PLUS Shipping) as of late, it all depends, and then there is also the variable of catching the right shopper at the right time

IF the pair you are considering is a vertical pair (the original, with all of the drivers in a straight line) I MIGHT consider paying that much for them even in poor condition; if they are NOT verticals then I would not

$200 TOPS (for beater NON-verticals) and that's only if all six of the drivers are in perfect working and cosmetic order (the tweeter diffuser foam is a $10 dollar fix, to be expected and is not an issue)

What is the condition/appearance quality of the white Aquaplas? (the woofers' cones) That is a BIG negotiating point as well..............

Rebuilding the crossover is not a requisite, but if you must, it's cheap to do so, less than $30 bucks tops if your wire wound pots are still in good shape and only need cleaning and lubrication. In order to do that properly (requires dis-assembly to do properly, not a squirt of "magic" DeOxit) you do need to pull the network out of the box so you may as well replace the caps anyway, especially if they measure off spec at all (you're already in there so why not). Sometimes the windings have been burned from being abused (poor/dirty amplification or being over driven) or damaged by nit wits who insist on "cleaning"/"fixing" filthy pots with dead spots that have been sitting unused for 25 years by wrenching them back and forth DRY, forcing the wipers to plane away the windings of years worth of heavy oxidization and a coating of hard dirt, dust and crud.

The last two pairs that I did (and one of them was just a few months back) DID in fact have caps that were significantly off the mark; the only way you can know for sure is to gain access and measure them, that or replace them as a matter of practice as already discussed. I was fortunate in that all of my pot issues were reparable with a proper service; the original owner had a brain and all of my L-pad issues were the result of simple long term storage and the forces of Nature

Whether you change the caps or not, I strongly advise you to re-flow/re-solder all of the connections on the little board. The improvement in overall clarity from this simple maintenance is pretty amazing

Now, to seemingly contradict/confuse everything I just said regarding price; I love L100s and follow their market performance fairly closely. Bottom line, they ain't gettin' any cheaper and I doubt that they will. I could be more definitive with my advice if I could see what shape they are actually in, but based on what you have said I'd still be inclined to pass on this pair unless, and again, they could be had for $200 (hopefully even less if you are a skilled trader and present your position effectively and well )

Offer the guy $175 and then meet him at $200, if everything described above is in order (the drivers)

Only you know how badly you want a pair and how long you are willing to shop. I would advise NOT starting off with a project pair that needs so much both in time and material. Decent pairs do still show up from time to time at what has been historically "good prices (under $600) but I'd be willing to bet anyone here that within the next 2 to 3 years you won't be able to touch a pair of L100s in any sort of (decent) shape for short of a Grand. Painted pairs and missing parts not so much.
You say the "the grills are gone (not included in the sale)" Well, which is it? If they are not split (common) and he has them and will include them then we MIGHT be able to start moving closer to the $200 mark. Otherwise, offer the $175, if he says no then walk away; I think you might just be in for a pleasant surprise.

And lastly, unless it's one hell of a nice paint job, anyone who would paint over that beautiful Walnut would also very possibly be the type who blasted the shit out of them and clipped them on a regular basis (is it an old '70s stoner's paint job or nice?)

Good luck,
Thomas Wagner

[Onebean]

Thomas, thank you for the insight. I did offer $200 and the seller passed. The grills are missing. I was confusing with my statement below, but I didn't want to describe them as gone, meaning included but trashed. I think I'll keep looking. The big plus of this set was no shipping, because they were close enough to go pick up. I'm going to let the seller sit on them for a while. I think most folks that know what L100's are, agree with your value comments. The seller is not a JBL fan, or audiophile as near as I can tell. They are a flipper, trying to sell a $25 garage sale find for $475. I'm fine with them making some money on them, they are just priced too high for me right now.

I have the wood working skills and tools to build cabinets, so I might set a budget for myself, and try to build a set of JBL's higher up the food chain. My musical tastes are classic rock, blues, and some old school country. What JBL speaker would you recommend cloning for a budget less than $1000?

Onebean

[quindecima]

For less than 1K you will be hard pressed to find a better speaker. I listen to classic rock, blues, classical, jazz and I like mine. Wagner is right on the money, maybe a little low in his price estimate but not far off.

[Wagner]

For less than 1K you will be hard pressed to find a better speaker. I listen to classic rock, blues, classical, jazz and I like mine. Wagner is right on the money, maybe a little low in his price estimate but not far off.
Makes at least 3 of us then: you, me and Les Paul!

Thomas

[honkytonkwillie]

For a less than $1000 budget I'd aim for an L65.

[BMWCCA]

What JBL speaker would you recommend cloning for a budget less than $1000?

Cloning can be expensive. You can buy any of these in original condition for less than that budget: L112, L96, L150A, L5, L7, 4410, 4410A, 4412, 4412A . . .

Hard to buy the parts for any of the larger monitors for less than the cost of whole systems these days. Raw drivers can be expensive, especially when you get into the 43xx range. You might find some 4430s in your range if you're luckly, or 4425.

[dprice]

You might find some 4430s in your range if you're luckly, or 4425.

It all really comes down to luck - what can you find local where the owner doesn't want to mess with ePay and shipping? Take your time, have cash in hand, and be ready to road trip to get them.

[SEAWOLF97]

Cloning can be expensive. You can buy any of these in original condition for less than that budget: L112, L96, L150A, L5, L7, 4410, 4410A, 4412, 4412A . . .

IF you're in a L-100 mood (3 way/12inLF) , then great alternatives are:

L166 - plus stylish grilles ;) , sound (to me) slightly better than 4412
120Ti - IMHO, the best of type. an undiscovered gem , usually under $500, beautiful teak.

[Krunchy]

IF you're in a L-100 mood (3 way/12inLF) , then great alternatives are:

L166 - plus stylish grilles ;) , sound (to me) slightly better than 4412
120Ti - IMHO, the best of type. an undiscovered gem , usually under $500, beautiful teak.

+1 On the L166s, I've been selling off some gear but I don't see myself parting with my set any time soon, they are down right lively.

4313Bs would be at the top of my list, & you should be able to pick up a real nice pair in your budget.
And There's your ticket of admission into the Studio Monitor line & JBL Camp. There's a pair on ebay right now but they look like they've been sitting in a damp basement for many a decade, I would pass on that particular set.

[Wagner]

Hello, this is my first post here on the Lansing forum. I've been drooling over vintage JBL's for a while now, and I am considering purchasing some L100's to get into the JBL camp. My end goal would be a big beautiful pair high end studio monitors like I see here often, but that's not in the cards currently.

There's a pair of L100 for sale locally that are rough, but the owner says they work fine. The cabinets have been painted, and the grills are gone (not included in the sale). The foam around the tweeter is also long gone. I assume the crossover will need a full rebuild, and they will need lots of cosmetic work. If I can get these for $250-$300, am I over paying? I know replacement grills will set me back at least that much, and by the time I rebuild the crossover, I'll have $600 or more in them. My goal would be to sell them eventually and get my money back to apply to a larger pair of studio monitors (in several years). What should I be concerned with if I go look at them? Are the drivers alnico on these?

I have seen some pretty impressive videos on youtube showing the capability of there L100. Kenrick videos are very impressive. Are they really that good? I'm not afraid of the work to restore these, I just don't want to get completely upside down on them. Thanks for the guidance.

Onebean
Whether covertly or overtly a fairly large and vocal constituency here will try and discourage and sour you on L100s, be it liking them, owning them or wanting them................the reasons, motives, conditions and arguments vary, and are irrelevant, but, are persistent and consistent............for YEARS now. Many of it's most vocal members have never even heard, let alone owned, a pair of L100s

If L100s are what YOU want then you will have to shut out the noise AND GO FOR IT, or, what was a potentially simple and pure path to happiness and satisfaction 5 minutes ago will become tainted, overly complicated and eventually joyless (I speculate this phenomena to be but one manifestation of audio nervosa)

L100s were good then and they are good now. Thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of people, including MANY studio folks, musicians and engineers were among them and thought so too, and still do............and it certainly wasn't because they were "cheap" or "affordable" back in their day, FAR from it

Thomas Wagner

[Onebean]

Thanks of all the suggestions and comments. I'm continuing to research all the models discussed here. One thing I notice about demos, are they seem to focus on Jazz music. I was lead to the L100, because of it's classic rock legacy. Are these other models mentioned good at rock/blues type music too? I kind of have my heart set on a big full range speaker, but are there some great small JBL's that would fit the rock/blues type of music with a sub for low end? It seems like JBL has the kids and highs nailed down on a lot of their designs.

Onebean

[Mr. Widget]

I'm continuing to research all the models discussed here. One thing I notice about demos, are they seem to focus on Jazz music. I was lead to the L100, because of it's classic rock legacy.Demos playing the type of music you like is critical... when you say the demos focus on Jazz... are you talking about YouTube videos? Those are worthless... great to see what people have, but there is zero meaningful audio performance data there. There are simply far too many uncontrolled variables for them to offer anything useful.

My recommendation is to take music you like to a store or friend's house and determine what you like and then buy it from that store or try to find a comparable speaker on line.

On the topic of the L100. I own four sets of JBLs, two are modern and significantly out of your assumed price range, but one of the vintage pairs are L100s. I find them satisfying in a smaller room. The high frequencies are not particularly great, but they can be quite fun overall speakers if you are not looking for an audiophile experience and just want to blast some classic rock. Mine have logged numerous hours doing just that.


Widget

[Wagner]

Thanks of all the suggestions and comments. I'm continuing to research all the models discussed here. One thing I notice about demos, are they seem to focus on Jazz music. I was lead to the L100, because of it's classic rock legacy. Are these other models mentioned good at rock/blues type music too? I kind of have my heart set on a big full range speaker, but are there some great small JBL's that would fit the rock/blues type of music with a sub for low end? It seems like JBL has the kids and highs nailed down on a lot of their designs.

Onebean
JBLs are like automobiles made by a good car company; they were constantly changing and evolving from the very beginnings of the company
All of the "heritage" models have their fans
All have their strengths and weaknesses
All represent what the company, and it's engineers, were thinking at any given time
All models reflect, to a point, what was available to the engineers as far as production and driver technology was concerned
All models reflect this as well as aesthetic trends on top of it all

You can't go "wrong" with any of them; if a large collection is not what you are after then you can always buy and try; there are few models you will have any trouble getting rid of (recouping your "investment") if you want to try another (assuming what you do acquire is in any sort of shape and if you shop well)

Project pairs notwithstanding, that is a whole other story

You won't know anything until you try, and as I said, if you listen for too long to internet bias, what should and could be easy and fun can quickly become ponderous, tedious and the source of great anxiety and doubt

Over the years what's hot and what's not tends to change and internet noise often reflects this: best example as of late I can give is the old "001" system

There are convincing arguments (including inarguable data and physics) for, and against all of them, a sonic/performance hierarchy of sorts, but ultimately a loudspeaker system's purpose is to deliver the goods in a way that YOU find pleasing and which pleases your needs

Then there is the obvious consideration that has to be decided upon: FORMAT and how much space you have, both for a listening room in it's entirety and how much room you can devote to a system's footprint

For your initial foray into this hobby/brand of vintage system, determine a budget and format, stick with it, keep your eyes (and more importantly, your EARS, open) and let the games begin

You see, you are already playing out scenarios in your head; a losing game I think because you cannot go "wrong" with any of them. Unfortunately, unless you live close by some sort of seller like a KENRICK it is almost impossible to go anywhere nowadays and actually hear the various models compete, side by side, like we once enjoyed 40 years ago. And then, all of that can go quickly out the window once a given system is actually in YOUR room. Then there is the period factor, two way versus three and on and on et al. ...........

Keep it simple and do not fall prey to the old paralysis from over analysis

I say all of this assuming that for now a pair of speakers to enjoy is your goal, not a representative collection of all that JBL gave the World over the years

Thomas

[BMWCCA]

Will you enjoy L100? Sure.

Are they the best JBLs ever? No.

Can you find a better JBL for the same money, or less? Absolutely.
The L100 is an iconic JBL design and as such commands extra bucks just for the form-factor and the legend that follows it. The improved Century-II (L112) is actually a better "rock" speaker. It reaches deeper and higher. The 128H punches bass beyond what its size might indicate. The highs are beyond what the L100 can put out and they're smoother, too. The entire response is more even. If you want to create a boost in a certain frequency, then do it with an EQ or tone controls, but why start out in the hole? Nearly any speaker can be enjoyable. A lot depends on what you're used to and what your expectations or experience are. Many vintage rock recordings are lacking in dynamics anyway, compared to today's recordings. Do a lot of listening—to music—and form your own opinions. And, be sure to come back to us with what you find and your thoughts.

As said already, you will be somewhat constrained by what is available, especially in your area. Shipping can double your cost on many of these. None are light, or small. Be patient. See what becomes available and listen to any you can while you make a decision. You might find a plain pair of 4412A in their utility finish for $200 that will blow your socks off and make you forget the L100. But then have you even heard the L100 yet?

[Onebean]

Thank you for all the terrific advise. I understand the whole mind trap of reading reviews on forums. I think I will start watching Craigslist and find a reasonably priced set of something in good shape to get started. I live in a small market, so demoing different styles is out of the questions. I'm headed out to LA in May, are there any good vintage Hi-Fi shops that might have some different JBL models set for demo?

Onebean

[Wagner]

Thank you for all the terrific advise. I understand the whole mind trap of reading reviews on forums. I think I will start watching Craigslist and find a reasonably priced set of something in good shape to get started. I live in a small market, so demoing different styles is out of the questions. I'm headed out to LA in May, are there any good vintage Hi-Fi shops that might have some different JBL models set for demo?

Onebean
In L.A.? I am sure there probably is/are, and you'd probably be better off avoiding them (money wise) and "otherwise"

As I mentioned, I watch trends so I look at many many auctions, not just for L100s..........my point is, lately I have seen MANY pairs of JBLs up for sale in area, lots in Kansas and Missouri, also Ohio, Indiana.........basically heartland to North Carolina now, so many in fact that it is surprising me Haven't really had a consciousness/awareness/sensitivity for Nebraska (until now, I will keep this in mind)

People often post here that they are envious of the sort of things that we have for sale on the Kalimexifornia "craigslist" and in out thrifts; I am beginning to think that there's just as much JBL treasure elsewhere, it's just that from the middle of America to the East Coast folks just aren't so predisposed to emptying out all the closets and selling off everything every two seconds (and actually buy "houses" to live in them!)

Look a ePay auctions and see if anything is within driving distance, may get lucky

Good luck on your hunt,
Thomas

[SEAWOLF97]

Whether covertly or overtly a fairly large and vocal constituency here will try and discourage and sour you on L100s, be it liking them, owning them or wanting them................the reasons, motives, conditions and arguments vary, and are irrelevant, but, are persistent and consistent............for YEARS now. Many of it's most vocal members have never even heard, let alone owned, a pair of L100s

I DO own a pair of L1:):)"s. (tho in perpetual care of my son now) . I just had a pair of 4311b's. I've had L-166's, 4412's and still have 120Ti's. I'm speaking from some experience.

whether the OP buys a pair or something else, does not affect me.

The Century's are fine for my 34 y.o. son who likes to blast Punk Rock. At $273 each (msrp) , they were not cheap, but also were within range of many who found them to be in a sweet spot -for the 1970's- . Things have progressed since then. If you have to pay a premium price for a pair in 2016 , IMHO, you are paying extra for nostalgia.

Nostalgia is fine. The Baby Boomers are keeping the market alive. Muscle Cars are somewhat useless in todays situation, but are in demand. You can buy better for less. Many of the 70's JBL's fall into that mold.

I guess the choice comes down to whether you want a good memory from the past or better price/performance today. :dont-know:

Back to the original question. If you can get a reasonable deal , can do work yourself , there isn't much downside to the purchase. Many of us have started there , gained some experience , moved them off to other appreciators and kept improving, working up the chain.

[Wagner]

Never ceases to amaze me

[Mr. Widget]

I'm headed out to LA in May, are there any good vintage Hi-Fi shops that might have some different JBL models set for demo?I doubt it... there used to be several up here in Northern California, but when I lived in SoCal during the '80s I never found one down there.

Interesting idea though. I think I'll start a new thread on the topic.

You might want to create a new thread asking if anyone has speakers and would be willing to host a demo while you are visiting.


Widget

[Wagner]

I doubt it... there used to be several up here in Northern California, but when I lived in SoCal during the '80s I never found one down there.
Widget
The good stuff wasn't "vintage" during the '80s, just "used"

They are there, but none I would drop a name for

Plus, he'll wind up paying Jerry another 10% on top of everything else and have no practical warranty recourse...............so, for all intents and purposes, nix nix

[sonofagun]

The L100s I've had and listened to have not impressed me at all with their sonics. The L100 design and components are almost 50 years old - speaker technology has progressed A LOT over the last 50 years! The small box compromises the audio performance too.

You said you can build cabinets - IF you really must have something JBL, I'd say spend your $1000 (more or less) and put together one of the classic JBL 2 way systems such as the 001 (I always liked) - I believe you will like these better and they will hold their value just as well also. L200 or 300 models might be a better classic choice as well.

[Wagner]

The L100s I've had and listened to have not impressed me at all with their sonics. The L100 design and components are almost 50 years old - speaker technology has progressed A LOT over the last 50 years! The small box compromises the audio performance too.

You said you can build cabinets - IF you really must have something JBL, I'd say spend your $1000 (more or less) and put together one of the classic JBL 2 way systems such as the 001 (I always liked) - I believe you will like these better and they will hold their value just as well also. L200 or 300 models might be a better classic choice as well.
Wish I could get my last pair of "001"s back for a $1,000! :(

You're the last guy that I would expect to say he didn't care for the L100! ;)

Thomas

[sonofagun]

"Wish I could get my last pair of "001"s back for a $1,000"

Well, if he builds the cabinets himself I think it's doable. :D

You wouldn't believe the brand of speakers I have around for listening that sound good to me! And they cost a lot less than L100s.

[Wagner]

You wouldn't believe the brand of speakers I have around for listening that sound good to me! And they cost a lot less than L100s.
Yeah, I most probably would