PDA

View Full Version : JBL 12" Transducer Decision - Unbeliveable



Audiocluster
03-05-2016, 02:39 PM
I'm a recent 'Newbie' to this site. I've been scouring about for days trying to determine which JBL 12" for my build?
THIS IS MY 1ST POST- Excuse the new thread, but this a BIG POSTING for me !

Narrowed it down between the 128h(or 128h-1) and the 2214h, mainly based on availability and repair feasibility.
The 2203A were my 'Wish' choice but reality rules us all. I've got the 077 Slots, pair of N1200, thinking about some LE85 (more dreams). The warmth of the 128H intrigues me as a lower Mid w/deeper low end driver TBD. Decisions, decisions !
Only thing I was really certain about is 3.8-4.0 cubic foot enclosures I built 10 years ago.

With OEM reconing kits NLA, or at least very rare for many transducers; My search/decision wasn't going very well. But it seemed 128h or 2214 were 'do-able'.

Frustrated and about to give up, decided to run Ebay one more time, one more LOOK

WOW..... Luck, Karma, BS, The Wind (def. not my charm or looks)... Whatever!
NEVER GIVE UP, Never !

Found a PAIR of "NEW-NEVER USED" JBL 128H-1 in original boxes (1 unopened). $170.ea ...$35ship/pair

A New pair of 128H-1 for $377.total WHAT A DEAL ! .......It is 2016, if that may seem high to you.

Decision made for me, Cool. I'm one Happy Camper now.
Thanks for all the posts that lead me, Guys .

And....................never give up !

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281954222409

Charles
love this site

SEAWOLF97
03-05-2016, 03:17 PM
can you translate this line from the ad ?

"Not bidding if you are not sure what you want.
creates a problem in the store if your aferta is automatically accepted
and you do not buy."

looking at the pix, it puts some doubt in my mind that they have not been refoamed.

The ring is not centered :dont-know: (look at LEFT vs RIGHT side spacing)

Audiocluster
03-06-2016, 09:45 AM
can you translate this line from the ad ?

"Not bidding if you are not sure what you want.
creates a problem in the store if your aferta is automatically accepted
and you do not buy."


Sure, it was my 1st consideration. Poor Miami English: 'aferta' (Spanish) literally means 'sacrifice'. The Latino usage is 'commitment'. The verbiage before noun is typical.
So: " Do not bid if your not sure you want to buy it. An automatic 'Buy it Now' bid is a commitment to buy. If you fail to purchase, item will be blocked from My Ebay Store until issue is resolved."
Standard Ebay procedure for several years.
Well the dialect fit the location.

2nd consideration: The was the irony of translation: 'Sacrifice'.........Hmm, not good

3rd consideration: Comparison of as many different pictures I could find verses the seller's pictures. Wouldn't expect original surrounds to be in perfect condition due to their age alone. But already re-foamed ....would suggest a rip-off wouldn't it. And yes I saw the apparent non-concentric edge transitions. I looked over the seller's pictures for quite awhile with the best imagining software I have; digital images being what they are. I really liked the color consistency which I considered a big plus; all the re-foams I've seen have a very noticeable contrast to the cone's hue/tint. But something about the non-concentric edges..... lighting, shadows, imaging error ? It sent me to digging through my college texts. Astronomy.....Physics.....No.... Bingo... Introduction to Optical Engineering Yu/Yang (silly rabbit, .....Now Prove It or How to test it)

3.5 Empirical Test: A few pics are worth a 1,000 words. Image plane perpendicular to axis, off axis 2-3". Concave SoRev w/evenly spaced & constant separation of parallel concentric rings. (YHTTMWOT).
701867018770188

IBD'd (the rabbit hole) Perspective or parallax errors ....imaging optics
When standard optics are used to image 3-D objects, distant objects will appear smaller than those farther away.
http://www.vision-systems.com/articles/print/volume-12/issue-9/features/product-focus/telecentric-lenses-make-precise-measurements.html

4.0 Final Consideration: The listing was brand new, only a few hours old. Everything seems to fit. WHAT the hell.
Best snag these NOW, before someone else does.

That's how I rationalized the purchase, We will soon see. :skeptical:

LowPhreak
03-07-2016, 12:24 PM
Hmm, well that explanation may work in the case of the plate, but to me the cone looks off-center to the surround; even the dust cap is not centered.

Audiocluster
03-07-2016, 12:37 PM
SEAWOLF .....& now LOWPHREAK
You are absolutely right !
I Must Give You Kudos, .... good eyes.


can you translate this line from the ad ?
....the pix, it puts some doubt in my mind that they have not been refoamed.


A further search of Ebay popped this up:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262323412838?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Looks familiar, huh.
70215

Like the serial nos !
70216 "borrowed"70217

My seller insists items are as described (even though cropped images were 'borrowed' from another seller) and states :
" I'll be happy when you confirm me that received the product in good condition."

I'm sure..... & not getting nailed for major violation of Ebay policy.

Damn, I HATE the taste of blackbird (crow).....:barf:
even more than waiting for this to play out. I'll just shut up for now.

SEAWOLF97
03-07-2016, 05:16 PM
SEAWOLF .....& now LOWPHREAK
You are absolutely right !
I Must Give You Kudos, .... good eyes.
My seller insists items are as described (even though cropped images were 'borrowed' from another seller) and states :
" I'll be happy when you confirm me that received the product in good condition."

I'm sure..... & not getting nailed for major violation of Ebay policy.

Damn, I HATE the taste of blackbird (crow).....:barf:
even more than waiting for this to play out. I'll just shut up for now.

things MAY still turn out OKAY . If we were picking apart a driver image that the seller had "borrowed" , then there is still a chance of success :dont-know:

IF you are going to steal images for an auction, at least get good ones :crying:

Hope you used PP ... just "in case" ...

Audiocluster
03-13-2016, 01:53 AM
The Man's Word Is Gold; His Picture was a fake for some reason.
Opening these Restored My Faith in Human Nature
Best I can determine, these were in limbo 'Not for Retail', No more Harman Re-Seller payola?.

It's Show Time: :yawn: :yawn:

7033470335703367033770338

You Bet I'm Happy
Charles

pos
03-13-2016, 03:13 AM
Congrats and have fun! :)

SEAWOLF97
03-16-2016, 06:49 AM
Is there a date code anywhere ?

suspect that they will need new surrounds in the not to distant future

Audiocluster
03-16-2016, 07:27 AM
Lot was shipped from JBL 2/21/2005:
The bar serial codes on box labels are J502-03170 & J502-03161 where the 5 digit suffix is Serial # stamped on medallion plate.
J502-If Prod Date, would think either '05 or '02 ....Could be Oct 5 2002

Those serial numbers seem rather low don't they? 03161 & 03170 Well maybe not for '02.

The surrounds seem in excellent shape, speaker's were well confined within the plastic wrapping. But, your right, they may go south fast. In which case I'll seek a pro for the task.

Audiocluster
03-16-2016, 08:11 AM
Another question about the 128H or 128H-1. Why are full specs so hard to find. They're not considered part of the 2200 Series. The only thing I found are the TS specs listed on page 103(pg2) JBL Pro(Thiele Small Low Freq Para & Def) and this original freq. chart from GT's original notes:


70392

No sales or application sheets found. Seems odd with the good reputation these have.
Anyone got a link ?

pos
03-16-2016, 08:27 AM
You can check the 4412 and 44xx family pdf files which will give you distortion as well as power compression figures.

mech986
03-17-2016, 03:32 AM
Charles, Congrats on your purchase!

gtimbers
03-17-2016, 09:00 PM
They have the same coil and motor. The 128H is less deep and has a much smoother response out past 800Hz. The 2214H is slightly louder and has a much deeper cone. It has a pretty nasty peak hole-peak combination starting around 800 Hz as I recall. The 2214H has more travel before bottoming out than does the compact 128H and -1.

Both are very nice general use woofers, but neither are particularly well suited to sub woofer work.

mech986
03-18-2016, 04:30 AM
Greg, would aquaplas damping of the center dust caps have done much for the midbass/midrange woofer responses, or is that much more a function of cone depth, angles, and curvature? What are the factors that are possibly within control of a transducer engineer with regards to the issues like the 2214H exhibited besides the crossover?

JeffW
03-18-2016, 08:27 AM
Wow, that turned out way better than I would have imagined.

gtimbers
03-18-2016, 08:46 AM
It is cone angle, material, etc. Damping the dome can actually make things worse as it tends to decouple the dome from the cone/coil and it can take off on itself. However, sometimes it helps. That was tried on the 2214H with no success.

4312lover
10-10-2017, 07:09 PM
It is cone angle, material, etc. Damping the dome can actually make things worse as it tends to decouple the dome from the cone/coil and it can take off on itself. However, sometimes it helps. That was tried on the 2214H with no success.

On top the issue, some people insist that it may take at least more than 5000 to even 10000 hours of playing music to get the best sound out of JBL speaker systems. Is it really so?

grumpy
10-10-2017, 10:05 PM
Sounds like the opinion of someone trying to promote really old speakers.
Surrounds and spiders break in fairly quickly, but “best sound”?
Perhaps more stabilized parameters. 100 hours would be a lot.

4312lover
10-10-2017, 11:21 PM
Sounds like the opinion of someone trying to promote really old speakers.
Surrounds and spiders break in fairly quickly, but “best sound”?
Perhaps more stabilized parameters. 100 hours would be a lot.

I believe 100 hours is good enough as well.
Greg, how about your opinion? I would like to hear about this from those who really involved with designing JBL units and systems.

LowPhreak
10-11-2017, 12:16 PM
Sounds like the opinion of someone trying to promote really old speakers.
Surrounds and spiders break in fairly quickly, but “best sound”?
Perhaps more stabilized parameters. 100 hours would be a lot.

I think it varies with different drivers - materials, size, compliance, and so on - before a driver settles to its design specs. It's no great voodoo, just play them for a couple of weeks before deciding ultimately on how a speaker sounds.

hsosdrum
10-11-2017, 01:05 PM
10,000 hours is 3 hours a day, every single day, for over 9 years. (At 24 hours a day non-stop it's more than one year.) So no, 10,000 hours of burn-in is NOT required.

Sheesh...

DavidF
10-11-2017, 09:37 PM
On top the issue, some people insist that it may take at least more than 5000 to even 10000 hours of playing music to get the best sound out of JBL speaker systems. Is it really so?

Following this kind of discipline it would be best NEVER to allow the drivers to rest lest they return to some form of stasis. Then another many hours of re-break-in to come back to optimum for a couple of hour's listening enjoyment. For me? Don't buy it. Life is just too short for this kind of pooh.

4312lover
10-11-2017, 10:48 PM
Following this kind of discipline it would be best NEVER to allow the drivers to rest lest they return to some form of stasis. Then another many hours of re-break-in to come back to optimum for a couple of hour's listening enjoyment. For me? Don't buy it. Life is just too short for this kind of pooh.

I agree. I found a very interesting page that compiles opinions of speaker manufacturers.
http://matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_rodajealtavoces.htm (http://matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_rodajealtavoces.htm)

Someone from JBL Pro is also included, saying,
Short (if not non-existent) break in period, then many years of accurate replication and then many years later eventual cone fatigue and the need for recone. I have been using JBL products since the 70's myself and gone through many recones/refurbs so I have a good deal of experience with fresh paper. I have recently reconed my 20 year old 4412 studio monitors. They had gotten a little "floppy" sounding and even thought the compliance was still in tact, it was time for fresh cones.


Because that a respondent is kept anonymous, 10000 hrs believers are screaming "It is a fake news!".

SEAWOLF97
10-12-2017, 08:22 AM
I agree. I found a very interesting page that compiles opinions of speaker manufacturers.
http://matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_rodajealtavoces.htm (http://matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_rodajealtavoces.htm)

Someone from JBL Pro is also included, saying,
Short (if not non-existent) break in period, then many years of accurate replication and then many years later eventual cone fatigue and the need for recone. I have been using JBL products since the 70's myself and gone through many recones/refurbs so I have a good deal of experience with fresh paper. I have recently reconed my 20 year old 4412 studio monitors. They had gotten a little "floppy" sounding and even thought the compliance was still in tact, it was time for fresh cones.


Because that a respondent is kept anonymous, 10000 hrs believers are screaming "It is a fake news!".

that's interesting. I moved my 4412's off pretty quickly as their bass was sounding "tubby" to me. Got arguments on that from a 4412a owner.