Altec-Lansing
02-18-2016, 11:17 PM
Just wanted to come into the forum to share a build that started off as a stock model 19 build and turned into something i have thought about for years. A modified pair of model 19's. I don’t want to offend any model 19 owners seems like that is easy to do it would appear people think it's blasphemy to modify model 19's most owners of these speakers think they are the holy grail of speakers and i can't argue that because i love them just the same. But lets be honest they do have their faults the cabinet is to large the 811 hyperbolic horns peaks the midrange frequency’s and the 802's play way to loud compared to the 416's.
The first thing i wanted to address in my build was the cabinet size the optimum size according to Altec is 7.5 cu ft http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/plans/1974-enc-design/page12.jpg my cabinets are 7.5 cu ft with two 4"diameter 5" deep ports witch tunes the cabinets to 32hz.
The second thing to address was the 811 horns i use 800hz Faital Pro elliptical tractrix horn http://www.faitalpro.com/en/products/HF_Horns/product_details/index.php?id=903020105 These horns are 1.4 inch throat and i had to drill out my own holes to mount to the 802's i don't use adapters their is no need for them and the 802's sound incredible with these horns. Sense tractrix horns do not cause any peaks in frequency’s the compensation network could be eliminated from the crossover my crossover can be bi amped or bi wired it is basically a stock model 19 crossover that consist of a 2.77MH inductor and a 21UF cap for the 416 and a 8UF & 16UF capacitor with a .77MH inductor for the 802 and some Dayton wire wound resistors to attenuate the 802 to 97db @ 1 Watt same output as the 416.
With factory model 19 crossovers there is a 5 db difference really it's 7 db between drivers because Altec rates the 416's output at 99 db in the model 19 cabinet. According to data taken at the CBS technology center maximum use of the midrange control varies the output level from 1.6 to 8khz by 8 to 10 db and from 8khz to 15khz by 3 to 4 db and from their to 15khz by 3 to 4 db the high frequency controls has a maximum effect of about 5 db from 10khz up some overlap of the controls is thus apparent. With the controls set at the very optimum setting there is still a difference of 7 db between drivers and that’s just to much. https://www.flickr.com/photos/98605888@N04/24823961710/in/photostream/
When listening to stock 19's i was always impressed how well the drivers blended together then i heard those same drivers both playing at 97 db output and i was really impressed with how the drivers just disappear together they are truly seamless to say the least. I have heard people say the 19's lacked bass i don't think they would say that about these speakers. The midrange on these speakers is natural and flat thanks to the simple tractrix horn and it's nice to be able to eliminate six unnecessary components from the crossover. When listening to drums these speakers sound way better than stock model 19's drums including snare are being represented by both drivers and when one of those drivers is 7 db louder it makes the drums less realistic same with piano violin not to mention instruments volumes in relation to each other.
These modifications would be easy to do to stock mod 19's in one weekend for about $150.00. The model 19's 811 horn is about 13" deep the tractrix horn i use is 9" deep so it would be easy to retrofit with some wood to the existing cut out for the 811 and it would sit about flush with the cabinet face. The top box could also be separated from the bottom enclosure and along with a couple sand bags placed in the bottom of the enclosure you could get it down to 7.5 cu ft then all you have to do is a little modification on your crossover and you would be done. This is what i originally planed to do but my mod 19 cabinets were trashed and not worth fixing.
I hope all the model 19 owner out there don't take offence to me saying the truth and that is i could never go back to stock model 19's after listening to these speakers never !! I did do a little half ass test on them from 1200hz to 5000khz and only had 3 db difference thanks to the tractrix horn and that’s pretty damn good if you ask me. I do think these speakers need some horn tweeters i have read about people trying unsuccessfully but they where in my opinion crossing over at to high a point like 16khz or 18khz. and that’s just not going to work you need to utilize the horn tweeters range and cross them over a lot lower than 16 to 18khz.
Right now i am immensely enjoying these speakers listening to vinyl is magical with these speakers they are so smooth never harsh vocals are insanely real live music is awesome i can not say enough about how good these speakers sound maybe in the next couple months i will work on getting some good JBL horn tweeters integrated into the speaker then if that can be done and done right witch i know it can then i think these speakers really will step into the very high end of sound reproduction.
I will post some pics when the speakers are finished i still need to veneer them and make some grills i thought about keeping the horn and crossover exposed on top of the cabinet like the look of the Lansing Iconic but changed my mind so i am also building a separate enclosure for the 802 & tractrix combo to give the speakers a more finished look. Also i just wanted to say no Altec Lansing model 19 speakers were harmed in the making of these speakers.
The first thing i wanted to address in my build was the cabinet size the optimum size according to Altec is 7.5 cu ft http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/plans/1974-enc-design/page12.jpg my cabinets are 7.5 cu ft with two 4"diameter 5" deep ports witch tunes the cabinets to 32hz.
The second thing to address was the 811 horns i use 800hz Faital Pro elliptical tractrix horn http://www.faitalpro.com/en/products/HF_Horns/product_details/index.php?id=903020105 These horns are 1.4 inch throat and i had to drill out my own holes to mount to the 802's i don't use adapters their is no need for them and the 802's sound incredible with these horns. Sense tractrix horns do not cause any peaks in frequency’s the compensation network could be eliminated from the crossover my crossover can be bi amped or bi wired it is basically a stock model 19 crossover that consist of a 2.77MH inductor and a 21UF cap for the 416 and a 8UF & 16UF capacitor with a .77MH inductor for the 802 and some Dayton wire wound resistors to attenuate the 802 to 97db @ 1 Watt same output as the 416.
With factory model 19 crossovers there is a 5 db difference really it's 7 db between drivers because Altec rates the 416's output at 99 db in the model 19 cabinet. According to data taken at the CBS technology center maximum use of the midrange control varies the output level from 1.6 to 8khz by 8 to 10 db and from 8khz to 15khz by 3 to 4 db and from their to 15khz by 3 to 4 db the high frequency controls has a maximum effect of about 5 db from 10khz up some overlap of the controls is thus apparent. With the controls set at the very optimum setting there is still a difference of 7 db between drivers and that’s just to much. https://www.flickr.com/photos/98605888@N04/24823961710/in/photostream/
When listening to stock 19's i was always impressed how well the drivers blended together then i heard those same drivers both playing at 97 db output and i was really impressed with how the drivers just disappear together they are truly seamless to say the least. I have heard people say the 19's lacked bass i don't think they would say that about these speakers. The midrange on these speakers is natural and flat thanks to the simple tractrix horn and it's nice to be able to eliminate six unnecessary components from the crossover. When listening to drums these speakers sound way better than stock model 19's drums including snare are being represented by both drivers and when one of those drivers is 7 db louder it makes the drums less realistic same with piano violin not to mention instruments volumes in relation to each other.
These modifications would be easy to do to stock mod 19's in one weekend for about $150.00. The model 19's 811 horn is about 13" deep the tractrix horn i use is 9" deep so it would be easy to retrofit with some wood to the existing cut out for the 811 and it would sit about flush with the cabinet face. The top box could also be separated from the bottom enclosure and along with a couple sand bags placed in the bottom of the enclosure you could get it down to 7.5 cu ft then all you have to do is a little modification on your crossover and you would be done. This is what i originally planed to do but my mod 19 cabinets were trashed and not worth fixing.
I hope all the model 19 owner out there don't take offence to me saying the truth and that is i could never go back to stock model 19's after listening to these speakers never !! I did do a little half ass test on them from 1200hz to 5000khz and only had 3 db difference thanks to the tractrix horn and that’s pretty damn good if you ask me. I do think these speakers need some horn tweeters i have read about people trying unsuccessfully but they where in my opinion crossing over at to high a point like 16khz or 18khz. and that’s just not going to work you need to utilize the horn tweeters range and cross them over a lot lower than 16 to 18khz.
Right now i am immensely enjoying these speakers listening to vinyl is magical with these speakers they are so smooth never harsh vocals are insanely real live music is awesome i can not say enough about how good these speakers sound maybe in the next couple months i will work on getting some good JBL horn tweeters integrated into the speaker then if that can be done and done right witch i know it can then i think these speakers really will step into the very high end of sound reproduction.
I will post some pics when the speakers are finished i still need to veneer them and make some grills i thought about keeping the horn and crossover exposed on top of the cabinet like the look of the Lansing Iconic but changed my mind so i am also building a separate enclosure for the 802 & tractrix combo to give the speakers a more finished look. Also i just wanted to say no Altec Lansing model 19 speakers were harmed in the making of these speakers.