The bowed front of the Paragon

[mrquant]

I ran into a Paragon at a mid-century modern place in Palm Springs this weekend. Although 39k was a bit rich for my blood I was intrigued by the horns aimed at the bowed front. Is this effective in widening the sweet spot? It made me think of the KLH Model 25 mini console I restored for my daughter's dorm room. That had side aimed speakers and barn doors that swung out to redirect the sound. Would it be interesting to do some ray tracing and experiment with reflecting sound this way? Would harder materials like corian be better? Would curves other than the apparent circular cross section of the Paragon be useful? Or is this just an approach that more modern technology has exceeded?

[audiomagnate]

...Or is this just an approach that more modern technology has exceeded?
Yes. The Paragon is highly valued (but 39k is around double the going retail rate) because of how it looks, not how it sounds. Those same drivers sound much better in a conventional arrangement.

[mrquant]

Yes. The Paragon is highly valued (but 39k is around double the going retail rate) because of how it looks, not how it sounds. Those same drivers sound much better in a conventional arrangement.

I guess it was too much to hope for that such a cool piece of furniture would sound great as well.

[Horn Fanatic]

A Paragon isn't worth $39K, and it never commanded that kind of money prior to 9/11. The only model that holds any real value is the model loaded with the 150-4C, the best cone horn driver JBL ever produced. The LE 15, as it is not fit for horn loading, was the worst choice JBL made to load into a Paragon. Anyone with a good ear who has conducted a side by side comparison will attest to that. IMHO, $20K is the absolute purchase price limit for a Paragon. No doubt the system is eye candy, but sonically it does not compare to the Hartsfield. Also, the Paragon was made with crappy material, just slightly better than floor underlayment.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Paragon is an awesome industrial design.

[Wagner]

I guess it was too much to hope for that such a cool piece of furniture would sound great as well.
They do sound great

I love all of these people who are Paragon experts and speak in absolutes but have never owned or spent more than two seconds with one if that

OR, they compare a vintage, early days of STEREO icon with modern designs by someone like Greg Timbers

They are full of shit

[Don C]

They are full of shit
Please stop.

[BMWCCA]

I'm from St. Louis. There were perhaps more Paragons in St. Louis per-capita than any place outside southern California. I heard one at HiFi Showroom off DeMun Ave, in Clayton. It sounded fantastic to me at that time. I also heard the S8R system in C50 Olympus cabinets there. I was perhaps more impressed with the gut-hitting bass of the C50, but they were both impressive to a kid who was listening to the 030 at home at the time.

Everything is relative.

I believe I managed to say that without any profanity. I know we have bad examples for that in entertainment and politics today, but we don't have to stoop that low here!

[Wagner]

I believe I managed to say that without any profanity. I know we have bad examples for that in entertainment and politics today, but we don't have to stoop that low here!


Everything is relative..

[Hoerninger]

... we have bad examples for that in entertainment and politics today, but we don't have to stoop that low here!

You nailed it! :thmbsup:

To come back to the starter, there are arguments which can't be denied.


... the bowed front. Is this effective in widening the sweet spot?
Would it be interesting to do some ray tracing and experiment with reflecting sound this way?
Would harder materials like corian be better?
Would curves other than the apparent circular cross section of the Paragon be useful?
Or is this just an approach that more modern technology has exceeded?

I have made two drawings which will help clarifying:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?18649-Soundstage-Paragon-amp-S2600-compared/page2
In the second one there is mark"X" from where the sound of the mid horn seems to come from. It is not a sharp point and obviously the sound of the woofer and the tweeter are coming from somewere else. I would not call it "widening a sweet spot". With a sophisticated elaboration it might be possible to get a better approach for the mids. But this is only true for "short" wavelength which will be reflected and not bowed (?). The Material itself should be reflective for soundwaves in that range.

The first drawing shows that half of the sound directed to the panel will pass to the sidewalls of the room, the other half will be reflected to the listener. There are modern approaches to this behavior with the special horns of the JBL S 2600 and the DD55000.

You can explore the soundstage of the panel by yourself. Take two smaller boxes and place a cardboard or so between. direct the speakers in that way that their axis tangent the panel. Take care that to the sides there is a lot of space.
You will have an acceptable soundstage as usual and a wonderful filling of the room with sound. I enjoyed it at home and with this:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?11909-Paragon-XXL&p=122033&viewfull=1#post122033
___________
Peter (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?11909-Paragon-XXL&p=122033&viewfull=1#post122033)





(http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?18649-Soundstage-Paragon-amp-S2600-compared/page2)

[hsosdrum]

They do sound great

I love all of these people who are Paragon experts and speak in absolutes but have never owned or spent more than two seconds with one if that

OR, they compare a vintage, early days of STEREO icon with modern designs by someone like Greg Timbers


That depends on exactly why someone wants to own a Paragon. If they're a collector, or are attempting to capture a long-lost dream of their youth, it could be worth serious $$. However, if what they're after is faithful audio reproduction they would indeed do much better with one of several "modern designs by someone like Greg Timbers."

When I was a Nakamichi factory rep in the early 80s one of my dealers had a Paragon on display and I had a chance to audition it numerous times compared with then-current JBL and other brand speakers. It most assuredly did NOT fare well sonically against the L200, L300 or Klipsch Cornwall, to mention three speakers that I remember we compared it with.

[mrquant]

You nailed it! :thmbsup:

To come back to the starter, there are arguments which can't be denied.

I have made two drawings which will help clarifying:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?18649-Soundstage-Paragon-amp-S2600-compared/page2
In the second one there is mark"X" from where the sound of the mid horn seems to come from. It is not a sharp point and obviously the sound of the woofer and the tweeter are coming from somewere else. I would not call it "widening a sweet spot". With a sophisticated elaboration it might be possible to get a better approach for the mids. But this is only true for "short" wavelength which will be reflected and not bowed (?). The Material itself should be reflective for soundwaves in that range.

The first drawing shows that half of the sound directed to the panel will pass to the sidewalls of the room, the other half will be reflected to the listener. There are modern approaches to this behavior with the special horns of the JBL S 2600 and the DD55000.

You can explore the soundstage of the panel by yourself. Take two smaller boxes and place a cardboard or so between. direct the speakers in that way that their axis tangent the panel. Take care that to the sides there is a lot of space.
You will have an acceptable soundstage as usual and a wonderful filling of the room with sound. I enjoyed it at home and with this:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?11909-Paragon-XXL&p=122033&viewfull=1#post122033
___________
Peter (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?11909-Paragon-XXL&p=122033&viewfull=1#post122033)





(http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?18649-Soundstage-Paragon-amp-S2600-compared/page2)

Thanks for the pointer to the drawings. Very helpful.

[Doc Mark]

Good Morning, All,

I, too, got to enjoy seeing, and "sort of" listening to a Paragon, back in the 1970's. There was place called "Dow Stereo" and they had locations around Southern California. I used to hang out at their old shop on El Cajon Blvd, and lust after "things JBL"!! Our bands used JBL, and also Altec Lansing, products in our PA's and monitors, but personally, I was going to school, and playing music on the side. Couldn't afford to actually buy JBL for myself, back then... But, Dow had a lovely Paragon in it's main show room, and they kept it playing all day long, amongst the other, mostly, blaring systems in there!! No matter how many times I heard the Paragon's, whatever quality they offered, sonically, was lost in the constant din of cacophonous crap that passed for musical quality, and overwhelmed everything that had any quality!!! I even asked their salesmen to please cut down on the rest of the stuff, so that I could actually hear the Paragon's as they were intended to be heard. They looked at me like I was some blithering idiot, which I guess I was, believing that they cared at all about what I thought!! Oh, well.... asking price was about $10,000 for that Paragon, and that rendered it far out of my reach..... which, of course, all those salesmen knew, just from looking at me!

As an aside, I did end up buying my first full system from Dow, and as I should have seen (but was too inexperienced to realize at the time), they screwed me, up, down, and sideways!! I used some of my precious Student Loan money to buy this system, and "thought" it was a nice one, until I got it home, that is. I was told the Sansui receiver was rated at 100 watts, and instead, it turned out to be a "quad" system, rated at only 15 watts per channel; the turntable was a Garrard, and it was ok, though nothing special. It did have a mid-range Shure stylus, which is what made it ok; the four speakers looked very nice, with actual walnut veneer applied over particle board, and they were large, heavy, and very nicely made, BUT, with absolute CRAP as transducers!!! The "massive" 12" woofers turned out to be bottom of the line CTS, and even a small JBL tweeter had a bigger magnet than those on the "flaked and formed" CTS junk. The 5" mid, and 3" tweets were also CTS, and there was no crossover, except for a single cap on the tweet. Interesting, as none of the tweets actually functioned, and were all DOA!! I tried to return the system, but since I had "opened" the cabinets, by removing the junky transducers, my "warranty", and I puke when use that term, was rendered null and void. In short, they "saw me coming"!!! I later met a former girlfriend of the actual salesman who took me for a ride, and she told me that DOW had two guys in a build those speakers in their garage, in Pomona, and that their entire cost was just $25 per enclosure, including wood, veneer, and all components!!

So, after reading my rancorous ramble, I did not really get to hear the Paragon's, after all, though I tried, very hard to do so!! Instead, I was used and abused, for my efforts....... By the way, I ended up ripping out all the guts from those nice walnut veneered cabinets, and replaced them with Eminence, Peerless and Philips components, bought from McGee electronics. I added a real 3-way 12db/octave crossover, and hey, what I ended up with was WAY better than what I had originally gotten. Later sold the entire system to a friend, after telling him my sad story. He got it for a song, and was happy, and I went on to build my first JBL systems, and enjoyed them with my new 80 WPC JVC receiver, and Philips 312 Electronic turntable.

That Paragon sure was beautiful, though, and I do wish I'd been able to hear it, just a bit......... Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc