New Studio Sub 18

[Valentin]

As expected for some time a new studio Sub has been done from the all mighty 2269h woofer
it is nice to see it come out

it is a big box 10.5 aprox cubic feet 300 liter internal volume

back to basics

[Ed Zeppeli]

I like the industrial appearance. Especially the screwed in ports. All business. I want some! I wonder if they're available aftermarket?


Warren

[baldrick]

It really didn't look that big but I see you are correct, I imagined it was aprox 8 cu ft.

I wonder why the box is that big, especially since the 2269H also are used in smaller cinema boxes with lower tuning (-10db@18hz)

[Valentin]

It really didn't look that big but I see you are correct, I imagined it was aprox 8 cu ft.

I wonder why the box is that big, especially since the 2269H also are used in smaller cinema boxes with lower tuning (-10db@18hz)

it must be for fiscal reasons to get high output at very low frequency
big boxes are a hard sell on less it fully justified by performance

[audiomagnate]

I like the industrial appearance. Especially the screwed in ports. All business. I want some! I wonder if they're available aftermarket?


Warren

Don't know about aftermarket but there's one here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-2269H-Used-/191766269538?hash=item2ca6290e62:g:dh4AAOSwLVZV302 V

Maybe it's time to upgrade my IB.

[Ed Zeppeli]

Don't know about aftermarket but there's one here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-2269H-Used-/191766269538?hash=item2ca6290e62:g:dh4AAOSwLVZV302 V

Maybe it's time to upgrade my IB.

Cheers! I was actually just referring to the flared ports for the DIY guys.

[dprice]

Don't know about aftermarket but there's one here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-2269H-Used-/191766269538?hash=item2ca6290e62:g:dh4AAOSwLVZV302 V

Maybe it's time to upgrade my IB.

I was quoted $1099 for a new one. Wonder what it would do in a B460 cabinet as a 2245 upgrade....

[audiomagnate]

I was quoted $1099 for a new one. Wonder what it would do in a B460 cabinet as a 2245 upgrade....

That's around 8 cubic feet IIRC. I bet it would be a significant upgrade.

[Jonas_h]

I have a question regarding the SUB18 I hope someone can help me with.

The sensitivity is rated to 92db@1w. If I see the "installation version" which uses 2269h as well, its rated at 96db@1w (http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/installed-sound/ae-series/asb7118#.V-PmT_mLRhF)

Do you know why there is such a difference in specs? 4db lower sensitivity require more than double the amplifier power, so it's a large difference.

[maxserg]

I guess it is a modified cone/suspension, because it goes lower. A bit like the Revel sub (with a 2269H motor) modified cone/suspension...

[Jonas_h]

I guess it is a modified cone/suspension, because it goes lower. A bit like the Revel sub (with a 2269H motor) modified cone/suspension...
Ok, I would have guessed that the lower extension was caused by different enclosure tuning. In my mind there would be some manufacturing overhead by using multiple versions of the 2269H.

[pos]

92dB is probably the sensitivity of the 2269H in the LF range.

Think of the 2242H vs 2245H: the 2242H is supposed to have a higher sensitivity, but LF sensitivity is about the same as the 2245H and it only starts to rise above that range.
When used in a 4645 variant with the correct EQ settings (cutting that midrange boost) both the 2245 and 2242 can be considered as having the same sensitivity.

[ivica]

I have a question regarding the SUB18 I hope someone can help me with.

The sensitivity is rated to 92db@1w. If I see the "installation version" which uses 2269h as well, its rated at 96db@1w (http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/installed-sound/ae-series/asb7118#.V-PmT_mLRhF)

Do you know why there is such a difference in specs? 4db lower sensitivity require more than double the amplifier power, so it's a large difference.

Hi Jonas_h,

I can imagine that JBL would expect that such speaker would be placed near or on the floor, so the reflected sound from the floor surface would behave almost as another driver adding mentioned acoustic level of sound.

regards
ivica

[Ed Zeppeli]

92dB is probably the sensitivity of the 2269H in the LF range.

Think of the 2242H vs 2245H: the 2242H is supposed to have a higher sensitivity, but LF sensitivity is about the same as the 2245H and it only starts to rise above that range.
When used in a 4645 variant with the correct EQ settings (cutting that midrange boost) both the 2245 and 2242 can be considered as having the same sensitivity.

Does this make sense given that both are subs? Why would one differ from another if they're both meant for VLF?


Hi Jonas_h,

I can imagine that JBL would expect that such speaker would be placed near or on the floor, so the reflected sound from the floor surface would behave almost as another driver adding mentioned acoustic level of sound.

regards
ivica

Does JBL include boundary reinforcement in sensitivity specs normally?

[pos]

Does this make sense given that both are subs? Why would one differ from another if they're both meant for VLF?

I suppose it depends on what you call VLF, and also what you call sensitivity (can be at lowest impedance, at a given reference frequency, on average in a given range, 2Pi vs 4Pi, etc.).

example : http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/cinema-market/subwoofers/4645c#.V-QU-jURm5I

50 Hz to 500 Hz; 99 dB, 1W @ 1m
40 Hz to 100 Hz; 97 dB, 1W @ 1m
In the intended 30Hz-80Hz range it will be closer to 95dB/1w/1m

And of course a different alignment targeted for a different bandwidth will result in a different sensitivity down low.

[Jonas_h]

From the install version:


25 Hz - 200 Hz: 96 dB-SPL, 1W (2.83V) @ 1m





25 Hz - 200 Hz: 96 dB-SPL, 1W (2.83V) @ 1m

Pretty amazing specs if that is true!

[Dave Cawley]

since the 2269H also are used in smaller cinema boxes with lower tuning (-10db@18hz)

Which one is that ?

[martin_wu99]

Great,is it active?

[Jonas_h]

Great,is it active?
Which sub are you asking about?

Neither SUB18 or the Cinema-version are active. They're both passive.

[baldrick]

Sub 18 in the middle looks tiny compared to a pair of MD7 (which also use a pair of 2269):)

https://scontent.fsvg1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/14434834_1190812737608259_6631818071544816946_o.jp g

[Jonas_h]

Sub 18 in the middle looks tiny compared to a pair of MD7 (which also use a pair of 2269):)

https://scontent.fsvg1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/14434834_1190812737608259_6631818071544816946_o.jp g

Wow! I just ordered two sub18's and my girlfriend was a little worried about the size. If I show her this picture, I'm sure she will stop worrying :)

[martin_wu99]

Which sub are you asking about?

Neither SUB18 or the Cinema-version are active. They're both passive.
Of course,new Sub 18,thank you:D
It is hard and expensive to find a power AMP to serve it:blink:

[Blackdevil77]

Has anybody on here heard this sub or has bought this sub? There really isn't a whole lot of information out there or that many reviews. I'm surprised we haven't heard more about it.

[Jonas_h]

Has anybody on here heard this sub or has bought this sub? There really isn't a whole lot of information out there or that many reviews. I'm surprised we haven't heard more about it.

I have two - I upgraded from S1S-EX's. Haven't done so much listening yet, but so far they live up to the S1S-EX. It's difficult to explain the differences, but they somehow have more "weight" to the bass. Not weight as in low frequencies but in the overall frequency range. They are still fast and articulate (hate to use the word "fast" to describe subs, but it's the best way to explain it).

75610

[Blackdevil77]

I have two - I upgraded from S1S-EX's. Haven't done so much listening yet, but so far they live up to the S1S-EX. It's difficult to explain the differences, but they somehow have more "weight" to the bass. Not weight as in low frequencies but in the overall frequency range. They are still fast and articulate (hate to use the word "fast" to describe subs, but it's the best way to explain it).

75610

Wow, that's impressive looking to say the least. They tout about the subs accuracy and ability to play sustained high SPL's. The one spec that leaves me wondering is extension. At 20hz it's 10 db down, at 23hz, it's 6 db down. I'm sure the in room response is a bit lower. I know you haven't done much listening yet, but have you noticed a lack of subsonic frequencies at all?

[srm51555]

Nice setup!

[Jonas_h]

My last subs where with the 2242H driver, so I am used to having subs which does not extend to 8hz as other insane DIY subs. The Sub18 sure don't lack LF compared to S1S-EX, so I am satisfied. I have not tested with high spl yet - max 20db from ref level.

[bubbleboy76]

Those M2 Monitors looks tiny :)

[Blackdevil77]

My last subs where with the 2242H driver, so I am used to having subs which does not extend to 8hz as other insane DIY subs. The Sub18 sure don't lack LF compared to S1S-EX, so I am satisfied. I have not tested with high spl yet - max 20db from ref level.

Yeah some of those DIY subs are outrageous. Some JTR offerings are crazy as well, extending well below 20hz. As long as the SUB18 can make it to about 16hz without significantly dropping off (lowest note on a pipe organ, typically). I'm curious on your thoughts once you get a chance to stretch their legs.

Again, incredible looking set up! :)

[dprice]

What are the port dimensions and/or tuning?

[timc]

Has anybody on here heard this sub or has bought this sub? There really isn't a whole lot of information out there or that many reviews. I'm surprised we haven't heard more about it.


Hi. I have auditioned them twice at AES New York 2015 and 2017. I would say that they are very good. There is a small thing. Im not sure if they are "as musical" as the predecessors. 2242 and 2245, but for power and "correctness" they are fantastic. The new sub 15 is also very good. I might get a pair at a later point, but for now im content with a pair of 4645C

[Jonas_h]

Hi. I have auditioned them twice at AES New York 2015 and 2017. I would say that they are very good. There is a small thing. Im not sure if they are "as musical" as the predecessors. 2242 and 2245, but for power and "correctness" they are fantastic. The new sub 15 is also very good. I might get a pair at a later point, but for now im content with a pair of 4645C
How do you define "musical"? I went from S1S-EX to SUB18's but have not listened much yet - final phase of theater construction :)

[timc]

How do you define "musical"? I went from S1S-EX to SUB18's but have not listened much yet - final phase of theater construction :)


Hi.

It is difficult to explain, but lets say that the 2242/2245 brings you to the musician, and the newer 2269 brings you to the record. This is taking it very far, but it is just to try and explain my percieved qualities. Completely subjective of course.

If you want the best precission i would choose the 2269 (sub 18). But there is no accounting for taste :)


-Tim

[Blackdevil77]

Hi.

It is difficult to explain, but lets say that the 2242/2245 brings you to the musician, and the newer 2269 brings you to the record. This is taking it very far, but it is just to try and explain my percieved qualities. Completely subjective of course.

If you want the best precission i would choose the 2269 (sub 18). But there is no accounting for taste :)


-Tim

I'm a little confused. The 2242/2245 is more musical, but the 2269 is more precise/accurate? I'm guessing that means you subjectively prefer the older drivers, even though the newer one may be measurably "better?"

[Champster]

I'd love to listen to the Sub18 next to my 2245s. Of course the Sub18's will play louder, but I'm not sure they would be better for a home environment.
82673
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[Jonas_h]

How are the distortion plots for 2245? I picked the SUB18s due to the very low distortion figures.

[Champster]

How are the distortion plots for 2245? I picked the SUB18s due to the very low distortion figures.

Yes, of course, you’re undoubtedly right. It isn’t really fair to compare a 30 year old design with a current, state of the art design. I was just saying that the 2245s are still very good for home applications. The added twist for me is that the Sub18 has a DSP setting for integrating it with the M2s. That is a huge plus and may ultimately cause me to sell my 2245s and buy a Sub18.

[Jonas_h]

I dont think that should be a reason to change. No such thing as presets for sub/mains integration. Here the room and positioning is such a big influence that it calls for custom calibrated settings in the room.

[Champster]

I dont think that should be a reason to change. No such thing as presets for sub/mains integration. Here the room and positioning is such a big influence that it calls for custom calibrated settings in the room.

“No such thing as a preset”? Huh, I’m confused. Attached is the website from jblpro.com. It looks to me like they have a preset. Of course though, this doesn’t preclude the ability or desire to fine turn their generic preset.
82688

[Jonas_h]

My point is that the preset will be so generic that it is close to useless. The integration between subs and speakers is an extremely difficult exercise where the room affects the subs and speakers very differently due to difference in placement. So the pretty 24db/octave slope the generic filter specifies for the subwoofer, is a 12db/oct slope after room intereactions where the speakers might follow a different slope thus providing an incorrect integration.

But others might chime in with a different school of thought.